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View Full Version : O M G ... It has arrived!


ZombieTactics
04-19-2012, 12:35 PM
I've been testing this puppy for the past couple of weeks and I'm incredibly stoked with the results. Thordson has done it again, and this really is a game-changer IMHO:

djBb2Ca28nY

My review will be forthcoming soon!

prerunners4life
04-19-2012, 12:40 PM
Idk of I would get one, seems kinda like a unnecessary thing.. Idk just me..

ElvenSoul
04-19-2012, 12:41 PM
More reasons to go featureless!

manuelcardenas77
04-19-2012, 12:43 PM
Not sure about "game changer",looks pretty cool tho...

strongpoint
04-19-2012, 12:51 PM
i like ambidexterity. watching closely ...

TreeHugger
04-19-2012, 12:53 PM
Just by being forced to use a Bullet Button, one is already at a tactical disadvantage no matter what you add to it. That's why I carry 3 AR with preloaded 10 rnd mags, so I can shoot 30 rnds quickly, the loophole around the no 10+ rounder.

duggan
04-19-2012, 12:55 PM
The only ARs I have with a bullet button I use for hunting where quick mag changes aren't necessary, my "fun" guns are featureless. I can see where this could be useful to the guys that want to keep all the neutered evilness in their EBRs. If the price isnt crazy I could see picking one up.

SuperSet
04-19-2012, 12:57 PM
For those running bullet button setups, i can see this useful in class or 3-gun. I always admire ingenuity. :)

CZ9
04-19-2012, 12:57 PM
Hey that's pretty nifty. I am hoping it is a simple install and don't need a certified installer though.

MrPlink
04-19-2012, 12:58 PM
Quit posin and go featureless :p

Droppin Deuces
04-19-2012, 12:58 PM
Finally...

Santa Cruz Armory
04-19-2012, 1:02 PM
I love the "outside the box" thinking. Good job TC!

manuelcardenas77
04-19-2012, 1:04 PM
So what happenes if you go shooting out of state,is it a easy change out vs a radlock?

nitroxdiver
04-19-2012, 1:08 PM
Looking forward to seeing install instructions. I really like the concept.

GutPunch
04-19-2012, 1:09 PM
Oh yeah! Tagged.

EvolutionGSR
04-19-2012, 1:22 PM
Looks cool, but it also looks like its screwed into the lower.

luckystrike
04-19-2012, 1:27 PM
Not a game changer unless it's made by redjacket imo

451040
04-19-2012, 1:27 PM
That's another great way to adapt and overcome until sanity is restored. I'd definitely install one if I had a BB'd AR. :thumbsup:

tiger222
04-19-2012, 1:38 PM
Neat, I don't have a go fast oll, they are all retro, but that is a great idea. Well done.

Bull's_eye
04-19-2012, 1:39 PM
Depending on price and how it installs, I'll probably buy one. Won't have to reach around the rifle to hit the bullet button.

EvolutionGSR
04-19-2012, 1:50 PM
From Thordsen customs website

Installation:

Installation of the UBMR requires modification to the lower receiver that, by Federal law, must be performed by a licensed 01 FFL gunsmith or 07 FFL manufacturer. See the list below for the nearest "FACTORY CERTIFIED" FFL dealer in your area. Check back frequently for updates to our certified dealer list.

Javi
04-19-2012, 1:54 PM
^Hmm..don't really like that. But I like everything else. Thanks for the heads up, Z.T.

Bhobbs
04-19-2012, 1:55 PM
It looks like the receiver has to be drilled and tapped. Great idea but it would be better if you didn't have to cut your receiver.

Fate
04-19-2012, 4:16 PM
Not a game changer unless it's made by redjacket imo

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBSJ4qvc17YotNwU0XN_-6WfbC1MANsKjbsV70D8Be0rz3PYNjBk0tadRsVg

Modding the receiver would be a dealbreaker for me.

Ubermcoupe
04-19-2012, 4:21 PM
Looks cool, but it also looks like its screwed into the lower.

Noticed that too. Unfortunately that causes me to loose interest in it.

Thordo
04-19-2012, 4:49 PM
It looks like the receiver has to be drilled and tapped. Great idea but it would be better if you didn't have to cut your receiver.

"cut" is an incorrect term.

Bhobbs
04-19-2012, 4:58 PM
"cut" is an incorrect term.

Does the part or doesn't it require the receiver to be modified by drilling and tapping it?

killshot44
04-19-2012, 5:05 PM
It looks like the receiver has to be drilled and tapped. Great idea but it would be better if you didn't have to cut your receiver.

"cut" is an incorrect term.

A hole is a hole is a hole. Most guys don't like making them on their guns. ;)

Thordo
04-19-2012, 5:06 PM
Thanks to Zombie Tactics for starting this thread. Let the questioning begin!! I'll answer some of the questions that are already posted.

Yes.
Holes have to be drilled and tapped into your receiver. It's a very simple gunsmithing operation that only takes about 10 minutes. For those who say "that is a deal breaker" realize that if you wanted to mount a scope rail on a rifle has doesn't have one, you'd take it to your gunsmith and he'd drill holes and tap them to install it.

Yes.
It must be installed by an 01 or 07 FFL since you are altering a firearm. Also, it's the only way we can warranty our parts and guarantee installation. This is only our first offering of this revolutionary new product and will continue to evolve.


Keep the questions coming!!

Thordo

Fate
04-19-2012, 5:22 PM
For those who say "that is a deal breaker" realize that if you wanted to mount a scope rail on a rifle has doesn't have one, you'd take it to your gunsmith and he'd drill holes and tap them to install it.

Personally, I wouldn't. I'd scope a different rifle or find a "no gunsmithing" mount. But that's a different tangent.

The reason I wouldn't want to put a hole in my lower for this application is that it's for complying with CA law and no other purpose. If the CA AWB ever goes away, or I move out of state, I've got a useless hole in my lower. A useless hole that would reduce its value as well.

As far as a cool workaround for compliance issues, my hat's off. Hope you sell lots of them. I just don't like permanent mods to my firearms, especially ones with limited or temporary use.

Johnnyfres
04-19-2012, 5:48 PM
Congrats on the design and all but I wish people would stop coming up with new ways to do a quick release to a mag. Why can't we just overturn the stupid law that is in place and we don't have to waste everyone's time and money?

unusedusername
04-19-2012, 5:57 PM
Yes.
It must be installed by an 01 or 07 FFL since you are altering a firearm. Also, it's the only way we can warranty our parts and guarantee installation. This is only our first offering of this revolutionary new product and will continue to evolve.


I assume this is a policy and warranty decision as there is no law in CA that requires modifications to be done by FFL holders...

Thordo
04-19-2012, 8:10 PM
I assume this is a policy and warranty decision as there is no law in CA that requires modifications to be done by FFL holders...

Hi Unusedusername,

You are correct about the warranty but there is also a liability issue that makes an FFL install necessary. Our system requires the two holes to be drilled and tapped precisely in order for the parts to all line up correctly. This requires fixtures and installation training that we provide to our dealers. If we provided the fixtures to a customer and they use it to install the UBMR on their personal AR, that would be OK. However, if that customer used it to install a UBMR on a buddy's AR or two , or three, he/she is technically altering a firearm without a license and is committing a "FEDERAL" crime not California. That customer could "give" the fixtures to a friend to use and that would be OK. That's a lot of risk to take for two little holes. Would you take that chance if you were in our position?

P.S.

You have a great handle!!

Keep the questions coming!!

Thordo

vta
04-19-2012, 8:13 PM
not a game changer. only red jacket is allow to make those proclamations.

Thordo
04-19-2012, 8:19 PM
not a game changer. only red jacket is allow to make those proclamations.

Seriously!!

Solid Foundation
04-19-2012, 8:22 PM
Nice innovation, but like some of the others have said, I'm not too crazy about drilling into the receiver.

I'll keeping an eye out for you guys, you're obviously not afraid to try out new ideas and some of those are the best!

Thordo
04-19-2012, 8:39 PM
Personally, I wouldn't. I'd scope a different rifle or find a "no gunsmithing" mount. But that's a different tangent.

The reason I wouldn't want to put a hole in my lower for this application is that it's for complying with CA law and no other purpose. If the CA AWB ever goes away, or I move out of state, I've got a useless hole in my lower. A useless hole that would reduce its value as well.

As far as a cool workaround for compliance issues, my hat's off. Hope you sell lots of them. I just don't like permanent mods to my firearms, especially ones with limited or temporary use.

Hi Fate,
Excellent point with regards to the possibility of the BB law going away. When I designed the UBMR system, I was thinking of that very thing. The UBMR design includes a threaded hole in the actuator for an extended push button to be attached for out of state or preferably a post AWB California. Bearing that in mind, it's usefulness extends beyond the AWB and could potentially increase the valve of your AR.

Keep the questions coming!!

Thordo

Speedpower
04-19-2012, 8:40 PM
Thordo,
Will that mount on a Polymer lower like the Plum Crazy/New Frontier Armory LW-15 Polymer Lowers?

Thordo
04-19-2012, 8:46 PM
Just by being forced to use a Bullet Button, one is already at a tactical disadvantage no matter what you add to it. That's why I carry 3 AR with preloaded 10 rnd mags, so I can shoot 30 rnds quickly, the loophole around the no 10+ rounder.

Hi Treehugger,
I'm not quite sure I understand. You carry 3 rifles instead of extra mags loaded with 10 rds?

Thordo

hornswaggled
04-19-2012, 8:56 PM
I am interested.

Thordo
04-19-2012, 9:02 PM
Thordo,
Will that mount on a Polymer lower like the Plum Crazy/New Frontier Armory LW-15 Polymer Lowers?

Hi Speedpower,

We haven't tested it against the polymer lowers yet but that's on the radar. I can't find any really good pics of the left side of those lowers. If you have one, take a good HQq pic and email it to me. at thordsencustoms@gmail.com

Thordo

strongpoint
04-19-2012, 9:05 PM
thordo, i haven't seen anyone mention cost yet. can you give us any estimate of how this (both the hardware and installation) might be priced?

Thordo
04-19-2012, 9:21 PM
thordo, i haven't seen anyone mention cost yet. can you give us any estimate of how this (both the hardware and installation) might be priced?

Hi Strongpoint,

Another excellent question. Our suggested retail is $89.99. Labor charge for installation is entirely up to the dealers but we suggest $10. We warranty parts and workmanship for life. We require our dealers to support our warranty with a 6 month guarantee on installation. Our dealers are trained be me personally.

Thordo

Keep the questions coming!!

elSquid
04-19-2012, 10:43 PM
If we provided the fixtures to a customer and they use it to install the UBMR on their personal AR, that would be OK. However, if that customer used it to install a UBMR on a buddy's AR or two , or three, he/she is technically altering a firearm without a license and is committing a "FEDERAL" crime not California. That customer could "give" the fixtures to a friend to use and that would be OK. That's a lot of risk to take for two little holes. Would you take that chance if you were in our position?


That doesn't make sense. I can buy all sorts of gunsmithing tools...

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=10006/Products/Gunsmith-Tools-Supplies

http://www.midwayusa.com/category/gunsmithing-and-gun-parts

...and the Feds certainly haven't gone after Brownells or Midway.

I don't see how your fixture is legally different from a...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/298932/wilson-combat-beavertail-grip-safety-fitting-fixture-1911

: shrug :

-- Michael

451040
04-20-2012, 4:21 AM
Drilling? BFD. Most lowers are inexpensive.


Why can't we just overturn the stupid law that is in place and we don't have to waste everyone's time and money?

If it was as easy as posting about it on the interwebs ...

Thordo
04-20-2012, 5:45 AM
This was PMed to me lastnight. Another great question.

Thordo

Hmm. I like the innovation ;)

I wonder if there's a market/application for left handed shooters outside of CA. Like add a screw-in 'button' and you'd essentially have an ambi mag release.

How do most lefty's currently change mags? I'd imagine it can be awkward, UBMR slightly modified might solve this.

Just postulating.

Keep up the great work!
--ryan

Hi shhh,

Excellent observation. I addressed a similar question on the thread. I am a lefty so the standard BB doesn't slow me down at all. Having a BB on the left side will really help righties more. For a post AWB California or out of state use we have machined a threaded hole for an optional extended push button (still in development).

The UBMR is compatible with ANY traditional BB or standard push button mag release for the anticipated post AWB California.

Thordo

Meety Peety
04-20-2012, 6:01 AM
Nice innovation! I could see buying one of these, but I do have a few reservations. First, as many have said is tapping the receiver. I don't like the idea of it. Can't say why exactly, I just don't like it. I guess it'll ultimately come down to whether or not I want the added convenience. Quite honestly, this is not something I can't live without, and it would ultimately be another "bells and whistles" type of thing for me (Which isn't a bad thing). Next would be the price. Granted, the MSRP isn't always the actual cost, but for a small part in a small gun shop, I think it'd be pretty close to that. I also don't see many smiths installing these for $10. I would guess a charge of 1 hour labor minimum, regardless of how long it actually takes. I feel like paying close to the cost of a new lower itself could drive people away.
Anyway, it's a cool idea and I'll probably end up with at least one. I do have some questions too.

How do you plan to regulate the installation of these if you truly only want a smith to install them? Am I going to get *****ed at if I try to buy one of these without having it installed on the spot?

How soon can we expect to see these for sale locally, especially if you have to personally train each dealer? How far are you planning to reach out to dealers? Also given that you want them to be installed by specific dealers, are these NOT going to be available online?

Lastly, will these units be supportive of 'other' common methods of releasing a magazine(IE the good old fashioned bullet)? I don't currently use the magazines in the video, so I'm wondering if you made these to be "just right" in the sense that they are not so accommodating to other options?

Thanks!

NiteQwill
04-20-2012, 6:15 AM
Drill and tap your receiver?

Even when a 5 pack of receivers costs $300, not many people are open to the option of permanently modifying their receiver for a single state (CA).

The solution is simple: go featureless or cross the border.

Thordo
04-20-2012, 6:21 AM
That doesn't make sense. I can buy all sorts of gunsmithing tools...

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/cid=10006/Products/Gunsmith-Tools-Supplies

http://www.midwayusa.com/category/gunsmithing-and-gun-parts

...and the Feds certainly haven't gone after Brownells or Midway.

I don't see how your fixture is legally different from a...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/298932/wilson-combat-beavertail-grip-safety-fitting-fixture-1911

: shrug :

-- Michael

Hi elSquid,

Another excellent observation but slightly misguided. The examples you linked are for fixtures, jigs, and tools that DO NOT give you the ability to modify a receiver, which is the actual firearm.

Here's a real world scenario. If you bought a fixture from Brownells to drill a hole in your Kimber 1911 45 frame for $100, and did a mod in your garage, that is perfectly legal. Let's say you see an opportunity to get your moneys worth out of it by using it to do the same mod to your buddies frame. That is modifying a firearm without a license and is a Federal crime. The fixture itself is not the issue but how it is used and who uses it. Our armorers kits are sold ONLY to licensed 01 and 07 FFLs for this reason.

We don't want the liability of distributing armorers kits to the public any more than you would want to be charged with a federal crime for drilling a hole. Neither would Brownell's or midway. Also, as stated in a previous thread entry, I certify our installation dealers personally. We CANNOT offer a "lifetime warranty" on our parts and workmanship or an installation guarantee unless we are certain that the installation is performed by a trained professional.

Keep the questions coming!!

Thordo

Thordo
04-20-2012, 6:33 AM
I always read "game-changer" as code for "I'm advertising this and one way or another I'm after your money." But that's just me.

Hi kb58,

I address questions and comments, positive or negative, and answer with the best, most accurate answers possible. I'm just as interested in educating as promoting our products so be brutal with your questions.

Thordo

Thordo
04-20-2012, 6:38 AM
Nice innovation! I could see buying one of these, but I do have a few reservations. First, as many have said is tapping the receiver. I don't like the idea of it. Can't say why exactly, I just don't like it. I guess it'll ultimately come down to whether or not I want the added convenience. Quite honestly, this is not something I can't live without, and it would ultimately be another "bells and whistles" type of thing for me (Which isn't a bad thing). Next would be the price. Granted, the MSRP isn't always the actual cost, but for a small part in a small gun shop, I think it'd be pretty close to that. I also don't see many smiths installing these for $10. I would guess a charge of 1 hour labor minimum, regardless of how long it actually takes. I feel like paying close to the cost of a new lower itself could drive people away.
Anyway, it's a cool idea and I'll probably end up with at least one. I do have some questions too.

How do you plan to regulate the installation of these if you truly only want a smith to install them? Am I going to get *****ed at if I try to buy one of these without having it installed on the spot?

How soon can we expect to see these for sale locally, especially if you have to personally train each dealer? How far are you planning to reach out to dealers? Also given that you want them to be installed by specific dealers, are these NOT going to be available online?

Lastly, will these units be supportive of 'other' common methods of releasing a magazine(IE the good old fashioned bullet)? I don't currently use the magazines in the video, so I'm wondering if you made these to be "just right" in the sense that they are not so accommodating to other options?

Thanks!

Hi Meety Peety,

A raft of great questions. It'll take me a little time to reply but I have to get ready for work. I'll get back to you today.

P.S. That's a great quote from Einstein!!

Thordo

kb58
04-20-2012, 6:40 AM
"Ultimate", "Game-changer", and especially "OMG", are a bit over the top and never work with me.

Thordo
04-20-2012, 6:44 AM
"Ultimate", "Game-changer", and especially "OMG", always rub me the wrong way, sorry. It just comes across as an attempt to create buzz for something that, if it was really "buzz-worthy" wouldn't need the contrived drama.

Opinion accepted!!

Thordo

peter95
04-20-2012, 8:48 AM
featureless is the best way to go IMO.

but if you dont have any legal high caps... maybe it may not be worth it.

Fate
04-20-2012, 9:03 AM
The UBMR design includes a threaded hole in the actuator for an extended push button to be attached for out of state or preferably a post AWB California. Bearing that in mind, it's usefulness extends beyond the AWB and could potentially increase the valve of your AR.

That's good to know. The option to alter it for use as an ambi-mag release (for featureless, possible post CA AWB or out of state use) helps offset the complaint of modding a lower only for CA compliance. Some pics of the UBMR in this configuration would be interesting to see.

ZombieTactics
04-20-2012, 9:08 AM
... "Game-changer", and especially "OMG", are a bit over the top and never work with me.

I am the party guilty of using the above language in this case. I'll say this much: It significantly increases the speed and reduces the hassle of changing magazines. I can see how someone practicing enough with it could conceivably change mags about 98% as fast as with a standard mag release. That's a bit deal IMHO ... maybe "game changer" is a bit over the top, lol.

elSquid
04-20-2012, 9:23 AM
Hi elSquid,
Another excellent observation but slightly misguided. The examples you linked are for fixtures, jigs, and tools that DO NOT give you the ability to modify a receiver, which is the actual firearm.

Completely untrue. The last link was to a fixture for reshaping 1911 frames to allow for the install of certain grip safeties.

I'm at a loss as to why you feel that tools and fixtures used to modify frames/receivers are of dubious legality.

-- Michael

NiteQwill
04-20-2012, 9:30 AM
Thordo,
why are you under the impression modifying my own gun is somehow illegal? Your assumptions are untrue.

1859sharps
04-20-2012, 9:53 AM
I am thinking there is some confusion with the federal law. Now, it has been a while since I held an FFL, but last time I checked/heard there was NO law against unlicensed persons making modifications to firearms.

What I believe to be illegal is...

Person A (unlicensed) takes gun to Person B (also unlicensed) leaves gun with Person B for any amount of time while Person B works on Person A's gun. And person A isn't around to be physically in possession of the gun.

What I believe to be legal is...

Person A (unlicensed) takes gun to Person B (also unlicensed). Person A stays with gun while Person B makes modifications.

That I believe is the law. If something has changed please don't just say that is no longer legal, please provide documentation.

The law does say if your going to take possession of firearms and make modifications, repairs, etc for profit as a business you need to be a properly federally licensed person/business. But this in it's self does NOT prohibit unlicensed persons from modifying a firearm under some situations. such as the actual owner of the gun making changes to their own gun them self. Provided the changes do not make the gun illegal. such as making it full auto or turning it into a SBR. There is also nothing in the law that would prevent me from working on a friends firearm provide the gun isn't transferred to my possession or the work would make the firearm otherwise illegal.

There is of course manufacture policy. there is nothing wrong with saying X part or modification by company policy will only be done by our authorized installer/dealers and they can define that anyway they want. or if you do the work to install the part etc that it would void any warranty. But this isn't law, this is simply company policy.

Thordo
04-20-2012, 9:59 AM
Completely untrue. The last link was to a fixture for reshaping 1911 frames to allow for the install of certain grip safeties.

I'm at a loss as to why you feel that tools and fixtures used to modify frames/receivers are of dubious legality.

-- Michael

Hi elSquid,
I stand corrected about the Wilson Combat jig but my overall statement is still true.

A person who modifies a firearm (i.e. receiver or frame etc.) as a service to someone "other than themselves" is manufacturing and/or gunsmithing without a license.

Agreed?

Thordo

ZombieTactics
04-20-2012, 10:14 AM
I look at this from a slightly different angle. The part takes about 10-15 minutes to install, assuming the installer has the right jig/form/whatever, took shop in High School, and has had the procedure adequately demonstrated to them.

Why would I WANT to buy $100+ worth of "installation kit stuff"? I completely understand the fun of "I wanna do it myself", but there's a limit on practicality there.

It also occurs to me that - given a couple of important points in the install - an untrained/unskilled person could irreversibly seriously jack up the whole thing. Why isn't it just plain smarter in this case to let someone trained do the modification? Why is this notion a showstopper?

1859sharps
04-20-2012, 10:28 AM
Hi elSquid,
I stand corrected about the Wilson Combat jig but my overall statement is still true.

A person who modifies a firearm (i.e. receiver or frame etc.) as a service to someone "other than themselves" is manufacturing and/or gunsmithing without a license.

Agreed?

Thordo

please provide actual code for this. I believe your taking a cover your hind quarters interpretation verse what may actually be in the law.

your interpretation would be correct if "I" was to start taking in guns and providing a service for profit. But if "I" am just modifying a gun or two for some friends while they are standing right there..no license is required. Not being licensed and or factory authorized may cause issues with orginal manufactures when it comes to warranties but that is an entirely different issue.

there is 100% for sure NO requirement that I have a license to modify my own guns. the only legal requirement is I do not make/modify a gun that is otherwise illegal to have. such as full auto, SBRs etc.

IF you want to only have "factory authorized" persons selling and installing your part, that is 100% your choice. But just say so. just be up front that that is company policy. Don't try and make it a matter of non existent law.

Thordo
04-20-2012, 10:30 AM
Thordo,
why are you under the impression modifying my own gun is somehow illegal? Your assumptions are untrue.

Hi NiteQwill,

Agreed. modifying "your own gun" is NOT illegal. Modifying someone else's gun (i.e. receiver, frame) requires a license.

I am an 07 FFL manufacturer. We just had this discussion with a couple of AFT agents and lawyer at an AFT seminar a couple of weeks ago. I wanted crystal clarity on this subject to be ABSOLUTELY SURE that I am not putting myself, my companies, and most importantly my customers in jeopardy of losing their license, their firearm, or their freedom.

Overall, this argument is irrelevant. Our policy is that only licensed 01 and 07 dealers can do the installation in order for us to offer a lifetime warranty on our parts and workmanship.


Thordo

Thordo
04-20-2012, 10:57 AM
I am thinking there is some confusion with the federal law. Now, it has been a while since I held an FFL, but last time I checked/heard there was NO law against unlicensed persons making modifications to firearms.

What I believe to be illegal is...

Person A (unlicensed) takes gun to Person B (also unlicensed) leaves gun with Person B for any amount of time while Person B works on Person A's gun. And person A isn't around to be physically in possession of the gun.

What I believe to be legal is...

Person A (unlicensed) takes gun to Person B (also unlicensed). Person A stays with gun while Person B makes modifications.

That I believe is the law. If something has changed please don't just say that is no longer legal, please provide documentation.

The law does say if your going to take possession of firearms and make modifications, repairs, etc for profit as a business you need to be a properly federally licensed person/business. But this in it's self does NOT prohibit unlicensed persons from modifying a firearm under some situations. such as the actual owner of the gun making changes to their own gun them self. Provided the changes do not make the gun illegal. such as making it full auto or turning it into a SBR. There is also nothing in the law that would prevent me from working on a friends firearm provide the gun isn't transferred to my possession or the work would make the firearm otherwise illegal.

There is of course manufacture policy. there is nothing wrong with saying X part or modification by company policy will only be done by our authorized installer/dealers and they can define that anyway they want. or if you do the work to install the part etc that it would void any warranty. But this isn't law, this is simply company policy.


Thank you 1859sharps,

You totally nailed it!! I guess I wasn't saying it as eloquently as you did.

I also asked the AFT agents at the seminar. "When is a manufactured receiver considered a firearm in the eyes of the law?" I asked because I wanted to know if I can ship a receiver to a non FFL anodizer for plating.

The answer was: Once the receiver is serialized it is a firearm whether it has been plated, anodized or not and must be logged into the bound book. I CANNOT ship it to a non FFL plater, BUT if I wanted to take it down there and stand by while it was plated then it is Ok for the non FFL to plate it. Of course, it's not possible to stand there and wait so I'd have to use an FFL plater which limits my choices.

Thordo

elSquid
04-20-2012, 11:12 AM
A person who modifies a firearm (i.e. receiver or frame etc.) as a service to someone "other than themselves" is manufacturing and/or gunsmithing without a license.

Agreed?


Couldn't tell you - I don't work on other people's firearms and hence have not looked into the law.

The question was if there was any criminal liability if you sold your installation tools to end users...and there isn't.

Why is this notion a showstopper?

The question is: should Calguns allow FUD to be propagated?

If Thordo wants tight control over installations in order to maintain quality, fine. His decision, no worries.

It's another thing for him to state that he can't legally sell the installation tools.

Somebody could go to AKBuilder and buy an AK flat bending die and start cranking out actual receivers for sale without an FFL. That person would be breaking the law, not AKBuilder for selling the tools.

-- Michael

Thordo
04-20-2012, 11:34 AM
Couldn't tell you - I don't work on other people's firearms and hence have not looked into the law.

The question was if there was any criminal liability if you sold your installation tools to end users...and there isn't.



The question is: should Calguns allow FUD to be propagated?

If Thordo wants tight control over installations in order to maintain quality, fine. His decision, no worries.

It's another thing for him to state that he can't legally sell the installation tools.

Somebody could go to AKBuilder and buy an AK flat bending die and start cranking out actual receivers for sale without an FFL. That person would be breaking the law, not AKBuilder for selling the tools.

-- Michael

Hi elSquid,

The bottom line is. It is our policy that only licensed 01 and 07 dealers can do the installation in order for us to offer a lifetime warranty on our parts and workmanship and a 6 month installation guarantee.

Hopefully this gets us past this subject and onto questions about the features and benefits of the UBMR.

If you believe that I'm spreading FUD, I apologize. I'm basing what I understand on what we were told by actual AFT agents at the seminar we attended.

Thordo

Thordo
04-20-2012, 8:32 PM
Nice innovation! I could see buying one of these, but I do have a few reservations. First, as many have said is tapping the receiver. I don't like the idea of it. Can't say why exactly, I just don't like it. I guess it'll ultimately come down to whether or not I want the added convenience. Quite honestly, this is not something I can't live without, and it would ultimately be another "bells and whistles" type of thing for me (Which isn't a bad thing). Next would be the price. Granted, the MSRP isn't always the actual cost, but for a small part in a small gun shop, I think it'd be pretty close to that. I also don't see many smiths installing these for $10. I would guess a charge of 1 hour labor minimum, regardless of how long it actually takes. I feel like paying close to the cost of a new lower itself could drive people away.
Anyway, it's a cool idea and I'll probably end up with at least one. I do have some questions too.

How do you plan to regulate the installation of these if you truly only want a smith to install them? Am I going to get *****ed at if I try to buy one of these without having it installed on the spot?

How soon can we expect to see these for sale locally, especially if you have to personally train each dealer? How far are you planning to reach out to dealers? Also given that you want them to be installed by specific dealers, are these NOT going to be available online?

Lastly, will these units be supportive of 'other' common methods of releasing a magazine(IE the good old fashioned bullet)? I don't currently use the magazines in the video, so I'm wondering if you made these to be "just right" in the sense that they are not so accommodating to other options?

Thanks!

Hi Meety Peety,
I finally have a chance to answer your questions but first I wanted to address this comment you made.

"Quite honestly, this is not something I can't live without, and it would ultimately be another "bells and whistles" type of thing for me (Which isn't a bad thing)."

Another great observation and certainly one that others are thinking when reading this. I have a whole box of bells and whistles that seemed good at the time and didn't workout, as I'm sure you and everyone else on Calguns does. However, as with our Ultimate Bullet Button tool, this is a practical solution to an impractical problem and the UBMR system is a useful asset whether CA continues the AWB or not.

Q1:
How do you plan to regulate the installation of these if you truly only want a smith to install them? Am I going to get *****ed at if I try to buy one of these without having it installed on the spot?

A: Our kit comes with a warranty card that is filled out and validated by the gunsmith. I'll post it on our website. If you buy a kit without the tools to install it properly and mess it up, you'll probably be *****ing at yourself. Another reason why we want it installed by a pro.

Q2:
How soon can we expect to see these for sale locally, especially if you have to personally train each dealer? How far are you planning to reach out to dealers? Also given that you want them to be installed by specific dealers, are these NOT going to be available online?

A: They are available now. The current list of certified dealers is on our website http://ubbt.net/ubmr.html. (http://ubbt.net/ubmr.html) We have been reaching out to dealers for several months and are getting them trained as fast as we can but we are also relying on YOU our customers to help us. No, this evolution will not be available online.

Q3:
Lastly, will these units be supportive of 'other' common methods of releasing a magazine(IE the good old fashioned bullet)? I don't currently use the magazines in the video, so I'm wondering if you made these to be "just right" in the sense that they are not so accommodating to other options?

A: Absolutely!! You can still use whatever tool suits you best with only one exception, a magnet.

All great questions.

Keep em coming!!

Thordo

Thordo
04-20-2012, 8:37 PM
I look at this from a slightly different angle. The part takes about 10-15 minutes to install, assuming the installer has the right jig/form/whatever, took shop in High School, and has had the procedure adequately demonstrated to them.

Why would I WANT to buy $100+ worth of "installation kit stuff"? I completely understand the fun of "I wanna do it myself", but there's a limit on practicality there.

It also occurs to me that - given a couple of important points in the install - an untrained/unskilled person could irreversibly seriously jack up the whole thing. Why isn't it just plain smarter in this case to let someone trained do the modification? Why is this notion a showstopper?

Hi ZombieTactics,

Another excellent point.

Thordo

Thordo
04-20-2012, 8:41 PM
Hi all,

I'll be in Fresno to certify Herb Bauer Sporting Goods for UMBR installation on Thursday April 27.

www.herbbauersportinggoods.com

Thordo

Droppin Deuces
04-20-2012, 8:55 PM
I look at this from a slightly different angle. The part takes about 10-15 minutes to install, assuming the installer has the right jig/form/whatever, took shop in High School, and has had the procedure adequately demonstrated to them.

Why would I WANT to buy $100+ worth of "installation kit stuff"? I completely understand the fun of "I wanna do it myself", but there's a limit on practicality there.

It also occurs to me that - given a couple of important points in the install - an untrained/unskilled person could irreversibly seriously jack up the whole thing. Why isn't it just plain smarter in this case to let someone trained do the modification? Why is this notion a showstopper?

One reason it would be a show stopper for me is because anytime I ask a gunsmith "What's your turnaround time?" the answer is almost invariably "Two weeks."
So the "ten minute" job isn't really ten minutes. It's a show stopper because when something should take only ten minutes to do, people generally prefer that job to be at least SOMEWHERE in the neighborhood of ten minutes. Not two weeks.

Droppin Deuces
04-20-2012, 8:56 PM
Hi all,

I'll be in Fresno to certify Herb Bauer Sporting Goods for UMBR installation on Thursday April 27.

www.herbbauersportinggoods.com

Thordo

Please let me know when you'll be in San Marcos to certify Darin Prince at North County Firearms.

Thordo
04-20-2012, 9:12 PM
Please let me know when you'll be in San Marcos to certify Darin Prince at North County Firearms.

Hi Droppin Deuces,

North County Firearms is already certified and posted on our website.

Thordo

ERdept
04-20-2012, 10:00 PM
Featureless.

hayaku
04-20-2012, 11:00 PM
would you sell the ubmr by itself to end customers directly?

if so, then why not sell the installation kit/jig by itself as well? practically anyone could figure out how it goes on and what holes needs to be drilled/taped for the size screws you are supplying in the kit.

or would this be sold only as a package with gunsmithing by your certified network of installers? if you sold as a package, then would we expect uniform controlled pricing?

how does your lifetime warranty work? do customers send their receivers to you for repair or to the installer? if to sent to the installer, what if the installer closed shop or is no longer around? if sent to another local installer, are you tracking official customer installations so you can verify warranty of the work?

tonyxcom
04-20-2012, 11:20 PM
if only authorized FFL's are selling and installing it than every install should be covered by a warranty.

blakdawg
04-20-2012, 11:41 PM
First, I want to say that I'm happy to see people designing and manufacturing firearm parts in California, especially firearm parts that help take some of the sting out of the idiotic legislation that comes out of Sacramento.

Having said that, this:


The bottom line is. It is our policy that only licensed 01 and 07 dealers can do the installation in order for us to offer a lifetime warranty on our parts and workmanship and a 6 month installation guarantee.


seems to be at odds with this text from your website:

Installation of the UBMR requires modification to the lower receiver that, by Federal law, must be performed by a licensed 01 FFL gunsmith or 07 FFL manufacturer.

I hope that you will modify the web page soon so as not to give people the impression that Federal law prohibits them from working on their own guns, because it does not.

Also, you wrote

If you believe that I'm spreading FUD, I apologize. I'm basing what I understand on what we were told by actual AFT agents at the seminar we attended.

and I hope that your feelings will not be too gravely injured when I tell you that nobody who knows anything about law will give an ounce of credence to a secondhand repetition of what an unnamed ATF agent (or an unnamed attorney) orally pronounced at some seminar.

It's common knowledge that regulatory agencies, and their employees, are often deliberately deceptive or accidentally incompetent with respect to explaining the laws and regulations they enforce. Also, the chances of you successfully relying on anything they tell you - especially if you weren't able to get them to put it in writing - as any sort of defense or safe harbor are pretty much zero.

If you want to talk about your company's policy, that's great, if you're the owner/management, then you are surely the ultimate authority with respect to that topic.

If you want to talk about law, you're going to have to do a lot better than "some ATF agent told me a couple of weeks ago . . ."

A cite to an actual statute, regulation, court decision, or technical bulletin from ATF would be a good start.

Next time you interact with an ATF agent who starts talking out of their *** about what the law says, you might ask them for that, too. It has a way of dissipating a lot of the gun store BS/FUD that floats around masquerading as fact. I understand completely if you think it's better to let them spout BS than challenge them - even when they're wrong, they can make your life tough.

If the people who came up with the OLL/bullet button idea in the first place accepted what the CA DOJ had told them about "the law" rather than reading it for themselves, your product wouldn't even exist.

Meety Peety
04-21-2012, 2:19 AM
I really don't see a point in arguing semantics on this one. He formed his policy based on information that he understood to be correct. Mistakes happen, no need to break out the ninja stars. At the end of the day, it's his product and his policy, regardless of anything else.

@ Thordo, to be honest, I would probably amend the website to reflect that the policy is just that, a policy, and not necessarily a law. Other than that, its a great looking product that I look forward to trying out. Thanks for answering my questions.

I'm picking up a new lower on Tuesday and providing the smiths local to me have a decent turn around and reputation for quality, I'll go ahead and give one of these a shot. I must say, I do really love the idea.

freonr22
04-21-2012, 2:37 AM
So people making 80% lowers that are buying 5 packs, can't install themselves?:confused:

451040
04-21-2012, 3:15 AM
This gadget just may push me to buy a pre-2014 lower. I'll have to give a call to Faith Armory to see about a package deal. :thumbsup:




Even when a 5 pack of receivers costs $300, not many people are open to the option of permanently modifying their receiver for a single state (CA).

For the vast majority of shooters the lower would only ever be used in a single state.

The solution is simple: go featureless or cross the border.

Honestly, neither of those are "simple".

Thordo
04-21-2012, 6:55 AM
First, I want to say that I'm happy to see people designing and manufacturing firearm parts in California, especially firearm parts that help take some of the sting out of the idiotic legislation that comes out of Sacramento.

Having said that, this:



seems to be at odds with this text from your website:



I hope that you will modify the web page soon so as not to give people the impression that Federal law prohibits them from working on their own guns, because it does not.

Also, you wrote



and I hope that your feelings will not be too gravely injured when I tell you that nobody who knows anything about law will give an ounce of credence to a secondhand repetition of what an unnamed ATF agent (or an unnamed attorney) orally pronounced at some seminar.

It's common knowledge that regulatory agencies, and their employees, are often deliberately deceptive or accidentally incompetent with respect to explaining the laws and regulations they enforce. Also, the chances of you successfully relying on anything they tell you - especially if you weren't able to get them to put it in writing - as any sort of defense or safe harbor are pretty much zero.

If you want to talk about your company's policy, that's great, if you're the owner/management, then you are surely the ultimate authority with respect to that topic.

If you want to talk about law, you're going to have to do a lot better than "some ATF agent told me a couple of weeks ago . . ."

A cite to an actual statute, regulation, court decision, or technical bulletin from ATF would be a good start.

Next time you interact with an ATF agent who starts talking out of their *** about what the law says, you might ask them for that, too. It has a way of dissipating a lot of the gun store BS/FUD that floats around masquerading as fact. I understand completely if you think it's better to let them spout BS than challenge them - even when they're wrong, they can make your life tough.

If the people who came up with the OLL/bullet button idea in the first place accepted what the CA DOJ had told them about "the law" rather than reading it for themselves, your product wouldn't even exist.

Hi blakdawg,

My feelings are definitely not damaged by your comments. In fact it's quite the opposite. In a previous posting I wrote:

"I'm just as interested in educating as promoting our products so be brutal with your questions. "

Hind sight being 20/20. This statement was totally skewed by my reliance on what an "expert" told us without docs to back it up and you and other Calgunners called me on it. +1 for the Calgunners for educating me!!

I'll amend the website this morning!!

Thordo

Thordo
04-21-2012, 7:00 AM
I really don't see a point in arguing semantics on this one. He formed his policy based on information that he understood to be correct. Mistakes happen, no need to break out the ninja stars. At the end of the day, it's his product and his policy, regardless of anything else.

@ Thordo, to be honest, I would probably amend the website to reflect that the policy is just that, a policy, and not necessarily a law. Other than that, its a great looking product that I look forward to trying out. Thanks for answering my questions.

I'm picking up a new lower on Tuesday and providing the smiths local to me have a decent turn around and reputation for quality, I'll go ahead and give one of these a shot. I must say, I do really love the idea.

Hi Meety Peety,
Thanks to you for more brutal honesty. Website will be amended this morning.

Thordo

Thordo
04-21-2012, 7:10 AM
Website amended!! I'll be posting the warranty later this morning.

Again, thanks to the Calgunners for slapping me upside the head!!

We're working hard to create a small retail space at our manufacturing facility and will post when its up and running.


Thordo

Thordo
04-21-2012, 8:46 AM
Warranty info added to website. Here it is.

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7143/warrantyforweb.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/warrantyforweb.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Thordo

s4alex
04-21-2012, 8:58 AM
If the install only takes a few minutes by a trained pro, do you think you will be offering this service at the local gun shows?

I was just at the Cow Palace show last week when I heard about this offering coming soon. If you offer this, I may just make the trek up to the next local show around here.

Also, can this be done to a stripped receiver? Or does it need a lower parts kit installed? I have 2 stripped that I would rather use instead of the one I already have built. Plus, I do not feel like bring in my complete AR or even my lower. Easier to just transport a stripped receiver.

Question #2, I see you have a listed number of FFL dealers, so they are trained. However, are they actually stocking it right now? Would I be able to go down to Reed's or The Gun Vault and have them install it today? Or are they just trained, but the product is not stocked yet?

azthig69
04-21-2012, 9:17 AM
Just by being forced to use a Bullet Button, one is already at a tactical disadvantage no matter what you add to it. That's why I carry 3 AR with preloaded 10 rnd mags, so I can shoot 30 rnds quickly, the loophole around the no 10+ rounder.


Carry 3 AR's for what?!... Run drills?...3 x 8 lbs. = 24 lbs. + gears...that's pretty heavy.

SuperSet
04-21-2012, 9:29 AM
Umm.. hes saying he carries 3 AR 10 rounders instead of 1 30 rounder.

strongpoint
04-21-2012, 9:38 AM
Umm.. hes saying he carries 3 AR 10 rounders instead of 1 30 rounder.

maybe, but that's certainly not what he wrote.

Thordo
04-21-2012, 10:17 PM
If the install only takes a few minutes by a trained pro, do you think you will be offering this service at the local gun shows?

I was just at the Cow Palace show last week when I heard about this offering coming soon. If you offer this, I may just make the trek up to the next local show around here.

Also, can this be done to a stripped receiver? Or does it need a lower parts kit installed? I have 2 stripped that I would rather use instead of the one I already have built. Plus, I do not feel like bring in my complete AR or even my lower. Easier to just transport a stripped receiver.

Question #2, I see you have a listed number of FFL dealers, so they are trained. However, are they actually stocking it right now? Would I be able to go down to Reed's or The Gun Vault and have them install it today? Or are they just trained, but the product is not stocked yet?

Hi s4alex,

Yes, we will be doing installs at the gun shows from now on. We couldn't get a second table on short notice for the last Cow Palace show but are booked for two tables for the next one. The next show on our schedule is Vallejo on June 2-3. We have requested 2 tables but the promoter hasn't confirmed the second table yet. More shows will be booked soon!!

Yes, we and all of our certified installers can do the install on stripped or complete lowers.

Yes, All of the certified dealers listed on our website are trained and have product in stock. We will be doing installs at our facility once our remodel is done, we're pretty close. I was welding the window bars today!!

I will be in Rocklin on May 4th to do training at TDS guns.

Thordo

glockwise2000
04-21-2012, 10:26 PM
I applaud the ingenuity. I hope you sell a lot.

The Virus
04-22-2012, 9:52 AM
kydex wrap

s4alex
04-23-2012, 1:34 PM
Wow. so I checked with Reed's.. or at least saw what they posted about this: $80 for the parts, $45 for the install... the kicker.. 1 week turn around.

So much for 10 minutes and $10. This is really what I was afraid of.

Looks like I will wait for you guys either at your shop or at the next gun show you attend and do it there.

arsilva32
04-23-2012, 1:53 PM
Drilling? BFD. Most lowers are inexpensive.



not all of us like yourself buy cheap junk,i would not want to drill into my lower for this devise . i would buy one if it didn't require drilling and tapping

osis32
04-23-2012, 2:12 PM
Have you considered making a version for free states? An ambidextrous mag release is beneficial especially when you're not hindered by a bb.

Fjold
04-23-2012, 3:01 PM
I hope that was a remotely operated camera in your video because if it wasn't you muzzle swept the camera operator in the opening scene.

wash
04-23-2012, 3:32 PM
I like the idea but I do all my own gunsmithing on my 80% lowers so I guess that means I'll never have one of these.

Thordo
04-23-2012, 4:55 PM
Have you considered making a version for free states? An ambidextrous mag release is beneficial especially when you're not hindered by a bb.

Hi osis32,
There are already ambi mag releases for free states available. Knights armament, Troy, and a few others.

Thordo

Thordo
04-23-2012, 4:57 PM
Wow. so I checked with Reed's.. or at least saw what they posted about this: $80 for the parts, $45 for the install... the kicker.. 1 week turn around.

So much for 10 minutes and $10. This is really what I was afraid of.

Looks like I will wait for you guys either at your shop or at the next gun show you attend and do it there.

Hi s4alex,

I really don't know what to say.

Thordo

azthig69
04-23-2012, 9:51 PM
not all of us like yourself buy cheap junk,i would not want to drill into my lower for this devise . i would buy one if it didn't require drilling and tapping


Whooa!...Easy...easy...relax. Don't get mad... life's too short.

wash
04-23-2012, 10:26 PM
He must have overpaid...

s4alex
04-24-2012, 5:42 PM
Hi s4alex,

I really don't know what to say.

Thordo

Yeah, no worries. It was not a bad statement against you. I was just saying at that cost and time frame, I would just rather wait and have it done from you guys at the gun show.

strongpoint
04-24-2012, 6:20 PM
any ETA for opening up the shop for drop-in work? i'm right up the road in SF ...

arsilva32
04-24-2012, 6:25 PM
Whooa!...Easy...easy...relax. Don't get mad... life's too short.


lol never get mad he he he, i was just being a smartazz

Sunday
04-24-2012, 7:06 PM
O.M.G. really???

191145ACP
04-26-2012, 9:54 AM
One reason it would be a show stopper for me is because anytime I ask a gunsmith "What's your turnaround time?" the answer is almost invariably "Two weeks."
So the "ten minute" job isn't really ten minutes. It's a show stopper because when something should take only ten minutes to do, people generally prefer that job to be at least SOMEWHERE in the neighborhood of ten minutes. Not two weeks.

Howdy Droppin Deucess,
I am an 01 Gunsmith in business for several years and have been certified by Alan from Throdson Customs to install the UBMR. I too have a couple weeks of backlog of work from customers but am happy to find a few minutes in between jobs to install the UBMR the same day I receive the order. I offer to you and anyone else out there, send me your lower or just the receiver and I will install and ship back the same day. Overnight shipping is available.

darmog
04-26-2012, 7:03 PM
Wow. so I checked with Reed's.. or at least saw what they posted about this: $80 for the parts, $45 for the install... the kicker.. 1 week turn around.

So much for 10 minutes and $10. This is really what I was afraid of.

Looks like I will wait for you guys either at your shop or at the next gun show you attend and do it there.

Just had mine done at Metal Dog Tactical. $89 for the UBMR + $18.75(15 min shop time + tax. In and out of there in under 20 minutes. Been playing with it for awhile awhile and I like it much better than trying to go over or under with your left hand trying to reach the bullet button, or taking your trigger hand off the trigger to use your right hand to hit the bullet button. Is it as good as a normal mag release? Of course not. But it just feels more intuitive doing it this way. Going to give it a full test at TTA's Carbine 1 course come May 12th.

Darklyte27
04-26-2012, 8:12 PM
great idea on the product! quite the price to pay if you wish to install on all your ARs.
I figured out how it works and think its great except that you have to modify your receiver by drilling

lincoln6echo
04-26-2012, 9:53 PM
I just carry a small flathead to "fix" my bullet button when I'm shooting in a free state. I like the direction of the idea but would not want drilled holes in any lower I give a rip about.

Thordo
04-27-2012, 5:42 AM
Just had mine done at Metal Dog Tactical. $89 for the UBMR + $18.75(15 min shop time + tax. In and out of there in under 20 minutes. Been playing with it for awhile awhile and I like it much better than trying to go over or under with your left hand trying to reach the bullet button, or taking your trigger hand off the trigger to use your right hand to hit the bullet button. Is it as good as a normal mag release? Of course not. But it just feels more intuitive doing it this way. Going to give it a full test at TTA's Carbine 1 course come May 12th.

Hi Darmog,
CONGRATULATIONS!! You are our first confirmed commercial install!! Tunis is a great guy and a solid friend. He was the very first dealer to carry our UBBT kits so it was only fitting that he was the first to be trained as well as do the first install. Definitely post your experience with the UBMR after your class. As always, we're interested in any feedback good or bad. That's how we learn!!

Thordo

Gray Ops 1*
04-27-2012, 9:26 AM
Just received my "UBMR" install was easy, remove the BB and mag catch. The drilling and tapping of 2 small holes is required to install. These holes are in the mag well area and do not interfere with any of the internal components of the firearm. The mag catch is replaced with a new one, as a screw is required to allow the new UBMR to operate.

The UBMR is smooth and fast allowing a right hander the ability to reload without reaching under and around while doing a left handed reload.

Thordo put a lot of thought into the UBMR, if BB's are discontinued there is a threaded hole already in the UBMR, presto-change-O you now have a fully operational ambi-mag release.

Really looking forward to using it more in my classes.

JeremyS
04-27-2012, 9:53 AM
It looks like the receiver has to be drilled and tapped. Great idea but it would be better if you didn't have to cut your receiver."cut" is an incorrect term.
I think the product is pretty cool for the CA market and I don't mean to be a punk here, but... having done a fair bit of machine work and drilling and tapping myself... "cut" is correct and appropriate. The tapping/threading process is also referred to as "thread cutting" or "cutting threads," which is why you use a lubricant called cutting fluid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_fluid) when you do it. Any DIY/instructional (http://www.jjjtrain.com/vms/cutting_tools_tap/cutting_tools_tap_11.html) will mention it. Juuuust throwin' that out there.

That said, if I decided that I wanted a left side bullet button on my AR I wouldn't hesitate to do this amount of modification to make it happen.

21SF
04-27-2012, 10:00 AM
Congrats on the design and all but I wish people would stop coming up with new ways to do a quick release to a mag. Why can't we just overturn the stupid law that is in place and we don't have to waste everyone's time and money?


People stop making products for their profit?

darmog
04-27-2012, 9:04 PM
Hi Darmog,
CONGRATULATIONS!! You are our first confirmed commercial install!! Tunis is a great guy and a solid friend. He was the very first dealer to carry our UBBT kits so it was only fitting that he was the first to be trained as well as do the first install. Definitely post your experience with the UBMR after your class. As always, we're interested in any feedback good or bad. That's how we learn!!

Thordo

Will definitely post a review after I take the carbine class but so far, with the little practice I've been doing, I really like how the UBMR works. Obligatory pics with the UBMR installed on my RRA Elite Op 2.

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/darmog/IMG_20120426_205238.jpg

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/darmog/IMG_20120426_205212.jpg

Thordo
04-28-2012, 7:00 PM
Will definitely post a review after I take the carbine class but so far, with the little practice I've been doing, I really like how the UBMR works. Obligatory pics with the UBMR installed on my RRA Elite Op 2.

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/darmog/IMG_20120426_205238.jpg

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb394/darmog/IMG_20120426_205212.jpg

Hi Darmog,
Nice setup, now even nicer!!

Thordo

maxwellca21
04-28-2012, 7:42 PM
Everytime I see some dude come up with shietz like this, it's just remind me how pathetic this state is. IMHO

Tunis
04-28-2012, 9:47 PM
Hi Darmog,
CONGRATULATIONS!! You are our first confirmed commercial install!! Tunis is a great guy and a solid friend. He was the very first dealer to carry our UBBT kits so it was only fitting that he was the first to be trained as well as do the first install. Definitely post your experience with the UBMR after your class. As always, we're interested in any feedback good or bad. That's how we learn!!

Thordo

Thanks Darmog and Thordo!!! We just sold and installed another UBMR today!!! :thumbsup:

epilepticninja
04-28-2012, 10:31 PM
Drill and tap your receiver?

The solution is simple: go featureless or cross the border.

Since I think featureless is ugly as sh*t and I don't plan on moving any time soon, neither of those alternatives work for me. After taking an advanced carbine class from Gray Ops and using a raddlock as the mag release, I was pretty frustrated to say the least. Now, with use of the UMBR along with Thordo's pmag ranger plates, left handed mag changes while leaving the right hand on the weapon will be possible and quite easy. I'm taking my lower to North County in San Marcos this week to have one installed. Can't wait.

Thordo
05-01-2012, 9:35 AM
I started a new thread in the "new products" subforum of the "Commercial Sales" forum. All of our latest info will be posted there from now on. Here's the link.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=566108

We're now doing installs for $89 parts and labor by appointment at our manufacturing facility in SSF for the entire month of May (while you wait). Check our new thread for details.

Thordo

tpc13
05-01-2012, 12:04 PM
Not at 89.00 just go featureless..sorry not for me

Thordo
05-01-2012, 12:53 PM
Not at 89.00 just go featureless..sorry not for me

Fair enough!!

Thordo

till44
05-01-2012, 1:04 PM
I can see how someone practicing enough with it could conceivably change mags about 98% as fast as with a standard mag release.

I think it's an innovative product, it's a soulution to a problem for those that choose a BB equipped gun. I could careless how anyone sets up their own gear. But the above statement is a huge stretch. 98% as fast as a standard mag release? No way, a BB equipped gun, even with this device, adds too many extra steps to compete with a standard mag release.

vintagedude88
05-01-2012, 1:56 PM
Just by being forced to use a Bullet Button, one is already at a tactical disadvantage no matter what you add to it. That's why I carry 3 AR with preloaded 10 rnd mags, so I can shoot 30 rnds quickly, the loophole around the no 10+ rounder.

LOL. Thats called a NewYork reload.:43:

epilepticninja
05-01-2012, 1:59 PM
I had Darin Prince (the other Darin Prince) do my UMBR today at North County in San Marcos. It looks great and just from playing around with it, it seems like it will work quite nicely. Looking forward to trying it out on the range. One thing that came up, my raddlock didn't want to play nice with it, so I had Darin switch it out for a bullet button. Thordo, thanks for the cool invention and for allowing me to make left handed mag changes a reality while staying within the intent of the law.

epilepticninja
05-04-2012, 8:07 AM
Update, Darin reinstalled my raddlock gen x and it works fine with the UBMR.

Thordo
05-04-2012, 8:24 AM
Update, Darin reinstalled my raddlock gen x and it works fine with the UBMR.

It was a misunderstanding that's all cleared up now. Our UBMR works with ALL manufacturers of right side mounted BBs.

I'm glad it all worked out. I'm sorry for any inconvenience.

Thordo

darmog
05-13-2012, 10:20 AM
Reposting my review here so more traffic can see it regarding the UBMR with some minor edits..


Just wanted to give you a quick little review on the UBMR product while still fresh in my mind which I just finished using at a level 1 carbine course yesterday with TTA in Morgan Hill. The UBMR was installed on a factory RRA Elite Operator 2 running an ACOG TA31F for this course with 3 10/20 P-Mags with UBBT installed. Oh, and its a Froglube gun as well. :D:D

First half of the class I had used a Gpik which is that little plastic finger tip ring you attach to the end of your finger. It worked well enough but had a few things I found annoying. First, after awhile it would start feeling uncomfortable as the ring chaffed your skin from being a little tight and sometimes turning around in the wrong direction. Second, placing it on any other finger besides my trigger finger sorta confused me as to where my finger placement would be as its not how I'd normally use a mag release on either an AR or pistol. Sometimes I'd end up with both my trigger finger and middle finger indexed on the bullet button. Third, people would end up forgetting or losing these things on the line after breaks. Not really what I would call a set it and forget it product.

So, on the second half of class, I got the go ahead from one of the instructors to use it after I asked. Previously, I had only used the UBMR at home once or twice just to make sure that it was functioning properly but had not really practiced with it fully geared up for a carbine class. Let me just say that it felt really like a no brainer using this thing. It was easy and much more convenient than using the Gpik. Sure, it's not ever gonna be faster than a normal mag release without the bullet button, but using the UBRM just makes changing mags more intuitive and faster. You never have to worry about losing your bullet button tools. Your right hand doesn't have to leave the trigger area or do anything you would not normally do to operate an AR. Yes, you do have to take your eyes off threat/target to use the UBMR, but it never really bothered me as it was still quick and eventually with more practice I'd say you can probably learn to not even use your eyes anymore to actuate the UBMR with the UBBT as you get used to motion.
I'll definitely need to buy more UBBT equipped P-mags and go practice some more, but I can honestly say that for a Californian compliant rifle, this device is one of the must buys if you didn't want to go featureless and wanted to practice in carbine classes while staying completely legal.