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Spawn
04-18-2012, 10:55 PM
I'm in the market for a value semi auto rifle. Any thoughts on the Saigas? And what other options do you guys know of? i.e. AR's, etc.

orangeusa
04-18-2012, 11:02 PM
I can only speak to Saiga - which I like A LOT. Eats all ammo, reasonably priced. Added a scope and sling and it is a lot of rifle for not so much $$.

But it was a no-brainer for me as a lefty - the AR's shot with less recoil (comparing a .308 AR vs. 7.62x39 Saiga - no kidding, my friends AR had almost no recoil), have a lot of aftermarket parts but more $$ and was not comfortable for me.

.

TNP'R
04-18-2012, 11:03 PM
Love my Saiga hasn't failed me yet.

jasonnorcal
04-18-2012, 11:05 PM
My opinion, get 1. In 7.62x39 preferably. End of story. Anything else will cost atleast $600-$700.

BretByron
04-18-2012, 11:07 PM
I've shot the .223 and .308 16" Saigas and they are a lot of fun. :thumbsup:

Jason P
04-18-2012, 11:14 PM
Love mine, 16" 7.62x9 converted. Double hook G2 trigger group, SAW, Collapsible, quad rail. About $650 invested total, worth every penny and then some for my money...

Although I will be pinning the stock and grip=wrapping. I HATE the Saiga/AK bullet buttons. I understand that some are better than others etc, but I just don't care anymore. Plus I have several 30 rounders dying to see usage in the Saiga...

INFAMOUS762X39
04-19-2012, 12:20 AM
I would highly recommend a Saiga chambered in 7.62x39 to anyone. It was my first firearm, BEST Value for the buck. Lots of upgrades, fun to shoot, very accurate. AMMO IS CHEAP********

With my Micro Red-Dot Co-witness, I can nail pretty much anything from 100-300meters, pretty much what that round was designed for.

orangeusa
04-19-2012, 12:45 AM
Very good point - you can buy ammo for them (in bulk) about the same price as 9mm.

As to accuracy - the guns are still better than most shooters. I was centering rounds on my buddies plastic patio chair at 100 yards... He didn't even know until we walked up and he saw all the holes in the legs.. We had a great laugh about that...

He kept his binocs on the target and asking if knew I wasn't hitting the target... Oh, I was hitting what I was aiming at... :)


I would highly recommend a Saiga chambered in 7.62x39 to anyone. It was my first firearm, BEST Value for the buck. Lots of upgrades, fun to shoot, very accurate. AMMO IS CHEAP********

With my Micro Red-Dot Co-witness, I can nail pretty much anything from 100-300meters, pretty much what that round was designed for.

Spawn
04-19-2012, 2:07 AM
Are pistol grips easy to install on the Saigas? And how do the Saigas compare to the traditional AK 47 platform?

Exdc
04-19-2012, 6:34 AM
I'm in the market for a value semi auto rifle. Any thoughts on the Saigas? And what other options do you guys know of? i.e. AR's, etc.

1.) See my signature.

2.) I would say get the Saiga first. I got the AR first, and I wish that I had gotten the saiga first. NOT because I don't LOVE my AR. But because BRD (black rifle disease) has the side effect of draining the cash flow VERY fast. Get a Saiga, and shoot it, and love it. THEN after you've had lots of fun, you can
2-A.)Convert it into an AK-47 style
2-B.)Consider getting an AR.
2-B-i.)Again here, I would start simple. I didn't. I completely built my rifle from scratch. Did it help me learn a lot about how the gun functions? Sure it did. Did I buy some cheapo crap parts because they were cheaper, and now wish that I'd bought it right the first time and saved some cash for other improvements (like a scope for example...:facepalm:) Indeed I did. So unless your pockets are lined (and maybe even if they are) get an AR that shoots 5.56 (you can get more uppers later, remember the AR is the mans "barbie"... No offense to women gun owners). Get one that has the length of barrel you want. You can even put together the lower if you REALLY want to build it. Then find an upper that you like. Come on here and ask for "approval"/advice on your build before purchasing.
2-B-ii.) As you get ideas, you can get more parts and modify your AR to be whatever you'd like, whether it's an ultra light CQB HD carbine, or a heavy 20" 'precision' rifle.
C.) You can always get more guns. You can infinitely customize the guns you have. If you plan never to sell, go for whatever you like. If you might sell, then try to keep permanent modifications minimal. Most of all, have fun while being safe.

I'm sure most other people will be focusing on the advantage of either rifle. To sum it up, here's what most people will say:
The AR is marginally more accurate. This can be attributed to a stiffer barrel, or tighter tolerances, or a longer sight radius (when speaking of iron sights)

The AK is more rugged. They will shoot almost anything (obviously in the right caliber), even if they're full of sand or mud. You also have a gun (Saiga) that (without a modification) doesn't require a bullet button. It's a featureless rifle.

ElvenSoul
04-19-2012, 7:28 AM
Love my Saiga but the I love my VEPR More!

weber_2
04-19-2012, 8:16 AM
Saiga 7.62x39, convert it. A true Russian AK, minus the full auto.

reidnez
04-19-2012, 8:33 AM
Are pistol grips easy to install on the Saigas? And how do the Saigas compare to the traditional AK 47 platform?

Yes, quite easy.

As for how they compare...well, it *is* an AK. In fact it's about the only way you're going to get a Russian-made AK in the states. When you compare the build quality of one of these with something like a WASR, it is night-and-day. Now obviously it's still an AK, and nobody would say it was finely-crafted, but (like a Glock, or a Honda) it is cheap but well-made.

I have owned a "regular" AK and a Saiga. I've since gotten rid of the AK. I had planned to do a conversion on the Saiga, but I fell in love with the ergos and decided to leave it as-is. The length of pull feels slightly long for a carbine (more like a hunting rifle) which is great for me. It comes right up to my shoulder, I can get a great cheek weld, it just feels right and I always shoot well with it. Almost every tactical weapon I've ever shot, the LOP is too short (as service weapons are designed so that smaller-framed people can shoot them.)

HBrebel
04-19-2012, 9:46 AM
I enjoy my saiga 7.62. great shooting rifle, affordable, eats all ammo I feed it and has that AK reliability. Not great for hunting(except hogs) but a fun rifle and a good choice for shtf situations.

NorCalK9.com
04-19-2012, 10:07 AM
Saigas are great!
My choice when I got mine in order
1st saiga 308
2nd saiga 308
3rd saiga 556 16in
4th saiga 556 20in
5th saiga 545
6th saiga 762x39
7th saiga 410

The 410 saiga was an arsenal a sucked so I got rid of it in 2 weeks.
The rest I still own and are AWESOME but get shot very little due to my ak building addiction and I enjoy shooting the ones I build more.

cantcme
04-19-2012, 10:15 AM
The Saiga is a great gun for California because you don't need a bullet button. The gun is affordable, the ammo is affordable and it is as reliable as a gun can be. Mine shoots 2-2.5 inch groups at 100 yrds with a Vortex Strikefire (no magnification) using cheap Brown Bear ammo. I haven't shot it beyond 230 yards but it goes bang every time and hits every time out to that distance.

SO:

affordable gun
affordable ammo
good combat accuracy
effective cartridge
incredible dependability
NO BULLET BUTTON

Super Spy
04-19-2012, 10:25 AM
I have a Saiga 7.62, it was cheap, it's reliable, it eats anything. It will never be as accurate as my AR, but it's plenty accurate for it's intended purpose and the price makes it a great value. I love not having a stupid BB on it. I find it comfortable to shoot and it fits well. The Ergo's of all AK's are lacking as the position of the safety takes getting used to, you have to learn to rock in a mag, it doesn't have a proper last shot bolt hold open (the bolt falls as soon as you remove the mag) I would also buy another Saiga without hesitation.

Blackcrow
04-19-2012, 11:11 AM
I thinking of getting a Saiga 7.62x39, at my local shop it is $450, if I drove out of down I could save 11 bucks. Is $450 a fair price for it?

TNP'R
04-19-2012, 11:17 AM
I thinking of getting a Saiga 7.62x39, at my local shop it is $450, if I drove out of down I could save 11 bucks. Is $450 a fair price for it?

I suppose if that's that's the final price. I paid 450 total for mine a year ago.

Colt-45
04-19-2012, 11:20 AM
I recently got a Saiga 12. It's an awsome gun.

The only con that I have forit is that unconverted it looks like a ****en mutant abortion.

Squid
04-19-2012, 1:38 PM
Might just get 16" for now.

Nice to hear about the ergo-metrics of the stock, non-BB Saiga for larger shooters(like me).

I guess most of the AK conversions are for looks only.

I read the 20" doesn't have much extra FPS, but makes the FPS more consistent and should be easier to use factory iron sights.

Up-graded drop in trigger is $30 and worth doing(so I hear).

Takes AK-74 mags(which I assume can be riveted to CA legal 10rd like AR mags) with minor tweak(not sure if tweak is to gun or mags....gun I think.

Other than that, at 0.12/round whats not to luv? (kicking myself for not buying more Mosin cans at 0.08/round)

I'm planning on getting both 16"(home defense/zombie) and 20"(optics) someday.

"Quantity and a Quality all its own"-Chairman Mao.

morthrane
04-19-2012, 2:45 PM
I bought an S308 because I wanted something in that caliber, but not at the price point of an M1A/AR10-- you can literally buy two or three, plus mags, plus ammo, plus optics, for the price of a nice M1A or AR10 w/ mags and optics. Since then, I've come to really like the rifle in unconverted form, and will probably keep it that way. The ergos fit, the trigger doesn't bother me, and the gun is has the capability of almost 1moa @ 100 yard accuracy with the right kind of ammo... while still retaining the ability to shoot crappy ammo.

The saigas are a decent value gun, but with our crazy cali gun laws, the saiga rifle platform is a great value gun, especially in classic AK47 7.62x39. (as much as I love my S308, it doesn't have the depth of surplus/aftermarket support that the 545/556/762x39 platforms enjoy)

Don't worry about converting it. Just buy one, get a buncha mags and cheap ammo, learn to use it as is... then build a BB'd AR for that evil feature fun or go the conversion route.

stix213
04-19-2012, 2:57 PM
Saiga's are awesome but the people putting them together obviously have a drinking problem.

Of the 3 Saigas I have, all 3 have had problems.

* My Saiga 7.62x39 has a canted front sight, but I run an Eotech on it so could care less.
* My Saiga .308 has a problem with trigger reset that I just recently figured out is caused by the side of the trigger rubbing on the receiver. Appears the trigger hole in the receiver isn't properly centered.
* My Saiga 12 shotgun was one of those that were only made with 2 gas ports, both of which were partially blocked by the position of the gas block. To get it running correctly I bought a drill press, disassembled the gas system, and added a new 3rd and much bigger hole.

All those criticisms said.... I own roughly 20 guns, but my favorite by a mile is my Saiga 7.62x39. My Saiga 12 is now absolutely fantastic and reliable. And I'm confident I can fix the one issue with my .308 when I get the time to pull the trigger out and break out the dremil. So all in all I highly recommend Saigas, but I won't lie and tell you its going to be perfect out of box.

I recommend converting your Saiga rifle by the way. Improves it a lot, gives you some serious pride of ownership, and you can still go featureless if you want. My two Saiga rifles at the bottom of this pic, the one with the Eotech is my favorite gun I've got:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7558/img1004jg.jpg

vta
04-19-2012, 6:52 PM
Best bang for the buck on a semi auto rifle in a popular round. Lots of ways to trick them out of you feel up to it. The worst thing about the stock saiga though is the trigger. 2-stage and heavy. Do a trigger job on the stock parts yourself like this and makes it a smooth single stage like the TAPCO G2:

S2wCfIqPJRw

If you don't feel up to it, just buy the G2 and install it. The transfer bar in the saiga trigger group is not the problem. It is the disconnector spring on the 2nd stage.

hellraiser
04-19-2012, 8:20 PM
I don't always shoot AK's...but when I do it's a saiga.

Seriously though, the cost compared to what you get from a saiga never ceases to amaze me.

hellraiser
04-19-2012, 8:23 PM
My two Saiga rifles at the bottom of this pic, the one with the Eotech is my favorite gun I've got:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7558/img1004jg.jpg

Btw I just wanted to say that the scoped / wood dressed saiga on bottom is beautiful!

stix213
04-19-2012, 8:45 PM
Btw I just wanted to say that the scoped / wood dressed saiga on bottom is beautiful!

Yeah getting the 308 with that original Russian wood furniture set wasn't easy, more like luck. They are darn near impossible to find, and when that one popped up in the private party sales forum here supposedly unfired, I couldn't resist :)

orangeusa
04-19-2012, 9:18 PM
I don't always shoot AK's...but when I do it's a saiga.

Seriously though, the cost compared to what you get from a saiga never ceases to amaze me.

Damn, that's sigline material right there... :)

I still love (ok, like a whole bunch) my Saiga 7.62x39... and my $6 slling from Amazon.com (whoda thunk?)...


And don't forget that the ammo is inexpensive. I.e. CHEAP!

.

Spawn
04-20-2012, 12:09 AM
Where are some dealers where I can look over a Saiga? I live in the LA/OC area. Also what are some websites you guys recommend for all things Saiga?

Pimpin007
04-20-2012, 12:18 AM
http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/StoreFront

orangeusa
04-20-2012, 12:20 AM
Man, oh, man, I bought some mags from a guy on Saiga-12 website, but also found some of the most racist dudes I'd ever run across there... YMMV.

.

KandyRedCoi
04-20-2012, 1:19 AM
Where are some dealers where I can look over a Saiga? I live in the LA/OC area. Also what are some websites you guys recommend for all things Saiga?

i got mine at Ammo Bros in Ontario, for $399.99 + fees, ask for Aaron

glad to see more and more people deciding to NOT convert their Saigas...and yes i consider my Saiga an AK47...fvck the pistol grip/bb set-up, its useless IMhO...people that say they can change the magazines just as fast as not having one is A Lying to u ;)

my saiga is running 100% big range day coming up will probably run close to 500rds in a span of a few hours and will report back

MarkL
04-20-2012, 9:05 AM
I recently purchased my first Saiga/AK. The only issue I had was the disconnector would not release the trigger. After research, I figured out the disconnector had a sharp edge and was dragging, not releasing the trigger. I did a polish job on it and all is well now.

I changed out the forearm/stock and added a bullet-guide. I like it a lot.

Saiga 5.45 with POSP 6x42 scope
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd336/makarov9/IMG_1057.jpg

Saiga 5.45 with Bushnell Holosight
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd336/makarov9/IMG_1066.jpg

Exdc
04-20-2012, 9:26 AM
Man. Both that .308 with original furniture, and the 5.45 above are so beautiful. Are there any 7.62x39 with similar furniture, that I could find regularly? Preferably with a 20" barrel? It sounds like I'll have to search long and hard for something like that... On the other hand, they will probably cost significantly more with wood like that.

MarkL
04-20-2012, 9:38 AM
I had to buy the wood furniture from Saigastock.com for $170. Not cheap, but I loved the look of it when I saw it on another rifle.

peterhodges
04-20-2012, 10:17 AM
The biggest problem with Saiga's is you can't stop at just one.

I think Riflegear and Kvar might have them in stock, including with the wooden furniture. Atlantic Firearms has them all on their site but reports are they are out of stock. PM them on here to find out. And as mentioned above, you can just buy the wood furniture...then you have both!

Exdc
04-20-2012, 10:28 AM
Might just buy the furniture separately. On the other hand, I might do a virgin build. Sounds like a summer project to me...:rolleyes:

morthrane
04-20-2012, 11:50 AM
The biggest problem with Saiga's is you can't stop at just one.
Man, ain't that the truth... :facepalm:

gun toting monkeyboy
04-20-2012, 12:20 PM
As the others have said, they are worth the money. And one of the best deals going. I like my 5.45, as the ammo is cheap. I will probably get a 7.62x39 version so that I can finally use all of my AK mags. They aren't often tack drivers like ARs, but that is not what they are made for.

-Mb