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ahren111
04-18-2012, 5:42 PM
I've been waiting about 3 months for my Young 308 bolt carrier. It's the last piece I needed to finish my Mega build. It finally came today :D I put the thing together & I can get the firing pin retainer to go in. I tried the bigger hammer method but it just dented the end of the pin. Its like the holes are not lined up but the pin will go in from the wrong side :facepalm: see pic #3 Anyone have any ideas? Is it just me, am I doing something wrong hopefully. I really want to go shoot this rifle this weekend, hoping I don't have to send the carrier back!

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu107/ahren111/IMG_0296.jpg

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu107/ahren111/IMG_0285.jpg

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu107/ahren111/IMG_0293.jpg

Bhobbs
04-18-2012, 5:49 PM
Are you sure you are pushing it in from the correct side? It doesn't look like there is a counter sink for the head to go in.

Intimid8tor
04-18-2012, 6:04 PM
I would look for some kind of burr on the inside of the non countersunk hole. A very small dressing with some fine emery could make all the difference.

ahren111
04-18-2012, 6:05 PM
Ya that's the wrong side. Strange thing is it will go in from the wrong side but not the correct side with the counter sink.

ExtremeX
04-18-2012, 6:15 PM
I tried the bigger hammer method but it just dented the end of the pin.

:facepalm:

Nothing on the bolt requires a hammer unless you want to start damaging parts.

billt
04-18-2012, 6:19 PM
Is there a reason why the screws on the gas key are not staked at all?

hayaku
04-18-2012, 6:23 PM
Is there a reason why the screws on the gas key are not staked at all?


12k rounds on my young nm bcg and no issues with mine not being staked...

freonr22
04-18-2012, 6:24 PM
Is there a reason why the screws on the gas key are not staked at all?

Staking the gas key on the AR-15 and M-16 carrier.

There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Here is our opinion and why Young Manufacturing will not stake keys. We have been making carriers since 1991. The US Mil Spec. assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked. Contrary to some popular opinions staking does not “SEAL” the gas key. Staking keeps the screws from backing out Period. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. We have seen plenty of staked screws that are loose or broken. The Mil Spec. also calls for the gas key bottom surface to be “SEALED” with Permatex gasket sealer. Something no one does to our knowledge. Here is our procedure for installing a gas key. First clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier. Then clean the oil from the screw threads. We use break cleaner for this. Next use a very light coating of Permatex high strength thread locker gel on the bottom of the key. PN 27010. This is much easier to use than the Permatex gasket sealer. It comes in a plastic twist dispenser. Make sure you don’t use so much that it squishes into the gas port hole. The cure rate is 60 minutes. Next coat the screw threads with the same gel. Install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds. Should you decide to remove the key for some reason don’t use the old screws when you put the key back on! You will most likely break them during installation or when you fire the rifle. Go to the local hardware store and buy new 10-32 x ¼” SHCS. If you feel the need to stake the screws spend the money and get one of the staking tools from Brownell that uses a screw type system to swedge the material into the top of the screw. Don’t use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires. We will not warrantee a carrier with a staked key no matter who staked it. You will be charged for a new key and any labor required to remove broken screws.
Good Shooting!
Daniel H Young
President
http://youngmanufacturing.net/stakekeys.php

ahren111
04-18-2012, 6:42 PM
:facepalm:

Nothing on the bolt requires a hammer unless you want to start damaging parts.

The retainer was very tight! No way to even get it started in the hole without a hammer. Unless you have fingers made of steel a hammer was needed.

smalltime
04-18-2012, 6:54 PM
I found a thread on ar15.com and it says young 308 carriers use standard ar-15 retaining pins

Bhobbs
04-18-2012, 7:22 PM
The retainer was very tight! No way to even get it started in the hole without a hammer. Unless you have fingers made of steel a hammer was needed.

How about taking a pic of the correct side.

ahren111
04-18-2012, 7:33 PM
I found a thread on ar15.com and it says young 308 carriers use standard ar-15 retaining pins

I saw that too, called young earlier in the day before I started messing with it & they said no takes a 308 pin.

How about taking a pic of the correct side.

The first 2 pics are of the retainer going in the correct (counter sunk) side. The third one I took because I found it strange it would go in the wrong(non counter sunk) side.

motorwerks
04-18-2012, 7:36 PM
12k rounds on my young nm bcg and no issues with mine not being staked...

me too! I wish I could afford one for every one of my AR's

billt
04-18-2012, 7:41 PM
Staking the gas key on the AR-15 and M-16 carrier.

There has been a lot of talk about the pros and cons of staking the gas key on the carrier. Here is our opinion and why Young Manufacturing will not stake keys. We have been making carriers since 1991. The US Mil Spec. assembly drawing requires the carrier key to be staked. Contrary to some popular opinions staking does not “SEAL” the gas key. Staking keeps the screws from backing out Period. If you do not properly torque the screws to 56 inch pounds you will be staking a screw that is loose or one that is over torqued and prone to breakage. We have seen plenty of staked screws that are loose or broken. The Mil Spec. also calls for the gas key bottom surface to be “SEALED” with Permatex gasket sealer. Something no one does to our knowledge. Here is our procedure for installing a gas key. First clean the oil from the gas key and the mating surface on the carrier. Then clean the oil from the screw threads. We use break cleaner for this. Next use a very light coating of Permatex high strength thread locker gel on the bottom of the key. PN 27010. This is much easier to use than the Permatex gasket sealer. It comes in a plastic twist dispenser. Make sure you don’t use so much that it squishes into the gas port hole. The cure rate is 60 minutes. Next coat the screw threads with the same gel. Install the key and torque the screws to 56 inch pounds. Should you decide to remove the key for some reason don’t use the old screws when you put the key back on! You will most likely break them during installation or when you fire the rifle. Go to the local hardware store and buy new 10-32 x ¼” SHCS. If you feel the need to stake the screws spend the money and get one of the staking tools from Brownell that uses a screw type system to swedge the material into the top of the screw. Don’t use a hammer and a punch! You can stretch the thread on the screw and now you have a loose screw that will eventually break if the gun even fires. We will not warrantee a carrier with a staked key no matter who staked it. You will be charged for a new key and any labor required to remove broken screws.
Good Shooting!
Daniel H Young
President
http://youngmanufacturing.net/stakekeys.php

That is very interesting considering all the ballyhooing that goes on in Internet gun forums about "properly staked gas keys".

ahren111
04-18-2012, 7:51 PM
I would look for some kind of burr on the inside of the non countersunk hole. A very small dressing with some fine emery could make all the difference.

It looks good I don't see a burr or anything.

nick
04-18-2012, 7:57 PM
Is there a reason why the screws on the gas key are not staked at all?

YM doesn't stake them.

hayaku
04-18-2012, 8:48 PM
That is very interesting considering all the ballyhooing that goes on in Internet gun forums about "properly staked gas keys".

how many of them actually shoot their ar's enough to even get to know what's going on? 100-200 rounds per day at the range isn't even getting close...

shadowofnight
04-18-2012, 8:56 PM
Your bolt looks nothing like other Young 308 bolts I have seen.

Look at the locations of the holes in your bolt, as well as the scalloped out section of the bolt....compare them to the Young 308 bolt on the bottom of this picture.

You didnt get no 308 bolt, somebody has some splaining to do.....


http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu107/ahren111/IMG_0293.jpg


Click on link below, click on the picture of the 2 bolts....

http://762ar.com/general/young-manufacturing-308-bolt-carrier-group-for-dpms-lr-308/

billt
04-19-2012, 5:17 AM
how many of them actually shoot their ar's enough to even get to know what's going on? 100-200 rounds per day at the range isn't even getting close...

How many people who shoot AR-15 rifles spend over $20,000.00 a year on ammunition?

$5.99 @ box of 20, X 10, (200 rounds per day) = $59.90 per day.

$59.90 per day X 365 days = $21,863.50

So are you telling us, if as AR-15 owners, we don't shoot over $20K worth of ammunition a year, we aren't shooting anywhere near enough to "know what's going on"? Sounds like a mall ninja story straight from the pages of ARFCOM. :rolleyes:

hayaku
04-19-2012, 8:49 AM
How many people who shoot AR-15 rifles spend over $20,000.00 a year on ammunition?

$5.99 @ box of 20, X 10, (200 rounds per day) = $59.90 per day.

$59.90 per day X 365 days = $21,863.50

So are you telling us, if as AR-15 owners, we don't shoot over $20K worth of ammunition a year, we aren't shooting anywhere near enough to "know what's going on"? Sounds like a mall ninja story straight from the pages of ARFCOM. :rolleyes:

LOL that's an arfcom approach to jumping to conclusions isn't it?

at 100-200 rounds per session, how many failures do most people see? probably none. at those low round counts how many people get to learn what their gun behaves like when it gets dry? hot? dirty? when can you expect the bolt to act up when it dries out the lube? when does their extractor break? when won't it cycle properly and why? how many rounds before you can expect issues?

with such low experience on equipment malfunction due to low round counts, how can people expect to give any advise on what they experienced with gear reliability? so yes, you have to spend lots of money on ammo to get a good idea of what your gun is doing under alot of different circumstances...

most people i see at the range go maybe once a month and they spend a couple of hours and shoot 100-200 rounds at a bench on a range with 30 min shoot sessions and then rest. i wouldn't expect any of them to know more than the guy that trains the whole day and runs 800-1200 rounds per day through his gun.

so as to the staking of the gas key, i run my young nm bcg factory stock without staking and will see when it finally fails... or it may outlast my barrel and other parts and then go into another gun till it fails or warrants staking of its gas keys

billt
04-19-2012, 9:04 AM
at 100-200 rounds per session, how many failures do most people see? probably none. at those low round counts how many people get to learn what their gun behaves like when it gets dry? hot? dirty? when can you expect the bolt to act up when it dries out the lube? when does their extractor break? when won't it cycle properly and why? how many rounds before you can expect issues?

When you post a ridiculous statement like that, which is void of any and all common sense, you can expect to be taken to task for it. No one shoots anywhere near that much.

An AR-15 rifle has the most easily replaceable parts of any commercially designed weapon out there. Anyone who shoots one can keep enough of the more common extra parts in a range bag when they shoot. Or at least they should. You can purchase a complete bolt carrier group for under $140.00, and it can be changed out in under a minute, should the need arise. You don't need to take out a second mortgage to buy ammo, to know if you have a dependable weapon. It simply isn't necessary.

A gun is either dependable, or it isn't. You don't have to run a pallet load of ammo through a weapon to know if it runs well or not. I'm not arguing with the premise of what you are saying, but you are being silly with your example of round counts. For what it's worth, this isn't the first time I've heard such nonsense regarding AR-15 rifles. Hence the mention of ARFCOM, which is where a lot of this kind of stuff originates. It's getting harder and harder to sift through that manure pile to find any pertinent information these days, since it appears every mall ninja in the country has opened an account there.

FeuerFrei
04-19-2012, 9:13 AM
OP
what size drill bit fits all the way through the carrier? try it and check alignment.
if you gacked the end of the fp retainer pin, toss it.
if the hole through the carrier is aligned and the correct size, try using the armalite ar10 retainer pins.
i use the armalite pins in my lr308 and have no fitting issues. solid pins were too loose.

ott1
04-19-2012, 11:50 AM
I don't even see the 308 BCG on Young's website.

TreeHugger
04-19-2012, 12:29 PM
Wrong side :facepalm: the retainer always goes in from the left side, you should be able to push it in completely with your finger. If I used a hammer like that, my OCD worry about damaging something would kick in :)

lilro
04-19-2012, 1:38 PM
When you post a ridiculous statement like that, which is void of any and all common sense, you can expect to be taken to task for it. No one shoots anywhere near that much.

An AR-15 rifle has the most easily replaceable parts of any commercially designed weapon out there. Anyone who shoots one can keep enough of the more common extra parts in a range bag when they shoot. Or at least they should. You can purchase a complete bolt carrier group for under $140.00, and it can be changed out in under a minute, should the need arise. You don't need to take out a second mortgage to buy ammo, to know if you have a dependable weapon. It simply isn't necessary.

A gun is either dependable, or it isn't. You don't have to run a pallet load of ammo through a weapon to know if it runs well or not. I'm not arguing with the premise of what you are saying, but you are being silly with your example of round counts. For what it's worth, this isn't the first time I've heard such nonsense regarding AR-15 rifles. Hence the mention of ARFCOM, which is where a lot of this kind of stuff originates. It's getting harder and harder to sift through that manure pile to find any pertinent information these days, since it appears every mall ninja in the country has opened an account there.

I don't think he's saying that people shoot that much 365 days per year. Just that when they go to the range, they put more than a couple hundred rounds downrange. And firing a bunch of rounds in one sitting is VERY different than firing that same amount of rounds spread out over time. Think about driving. You can do 15 mile commutes every day, but it doesn't compare to a single cross-country road trip. What he is saying makes a lot of sense.

Bhobbs
04-19-2012, 1:55 PM
Wrong side :facepalm: the retainer always goes in from the left side, you should be able to push it in completely with your finger. If I used a hammer like that, my OCD worry about damaging something would kick in :)

OP already tried that. The first two pics show the pin being pushed in from the correct side.

It's interesting that the pin will not go through the opposite side unless it is pushed in from that side. There must be a burr or something stopping the pin.

TreeHugger
04-19-2012, 2:02 PM
OP already tried that. The first two pics show the pin being pushed in from the correct side.

It's interesting that the pin will not go through the opposite side unless it is pushed in from that side. There must be a burr or something stopping the pin.

You're correct, I was looking at the last pic only. But, no matter what, I wouldn't had used the hammer method.

pacifico23
04-19-2012, 2:21 PM
Hahahaha that's kinda funny because I thought I was the only one with this problem. I have a Youngs bolt carrier. That pin to get back in is a BIATCH!!! What I do is use needle nose pliers. I dip the pin in froglube or a clp, I stick it in and feel for on side to almost grab the lip. Then I push up as hard as I freaking can on the little prying power I have and eventually I get in. As time has gone on, I have grown a feel or it and can get in pretty easy. But just keep trying an be patient.

Patience is a virtrue on that darn pin.

ahren111
04-19-2012, 7:40 PM
OP
what size drill bit fits all the way through the carrier? try it and check alignment.
if you gacked the end of the fp retainer pin, toss it.
if the hole through the carrier is aligned and the correct size, try using the armalite ar10 retainer pins.
i use the armalite pins in my lr308 and have no fitting issues. solid pins were too loose.


I thought about that but there's just something about taking a drill to my brand new carrier that sorta scares me. Ya definitely getting a new retainer the end isn't looking so hot.


I don't even see the 308 BCG on Young's website.


Ya for whatever reason they're not on the website you have to do it the old fashion way & call them. Or Elite Tatical carries them, great guys!

Hahahaha that's kinda funny because I thought I was the only one with this problem. I have a Youngs bolt carrier. That pin to get back in is a BIATCH!!! What I do is use needle nose pliers. I dip the pin in froglube or a clp, I stick it in and feel for on side to almost grab the lip. Then I push up as hard as I freaking can on the little prying power I have and eventually I get in. As time has gone on, I have grown a feel or it and can get in pretty easy. But just keep trying an be patient.

Patience is a virtrue on that darn pin.

I messed with it for well over an hour, the pin is no where close to the hole on the other side. With the firing pin out. I took a screw driver & pried up on the retainer that got it close but there's no way to do that with the firing pin in. I emailed Young pics last night. They said somethings wrong there's no way it should look like it does. They shipped me out a new one today. Only thing that sucks is it screws up my plans of shooting it this weekend owell. I guess one more week isn't that bad.

ott1
04-19-2012, 8:23 PM
Ya for whatever reason they're not on the website you have to do it the old fashion way & call them. Or Elite Tatical carries them, great guys!


Maybe Young is still working out the bugs in the 308 bolt carrier. I saw that the 1st batch was "out of spec" when compared to the DPMS carrier.

billt
04-23-2012, 12:04 AM
I don't think he's saying that people shoot that much 365 days per year. Just that when they go to the range, they put more than a couple hundred rounds downrange. And firing a bunch of rounds in one sitting is VERY different than firing that same amount of rounds spread out over time. Think about driving. You can do 15 mile commutes every day, but it doesn't compare to a single cross-country road trip. What he is saying makes a lot of sense.

Have you ever noticed how the AR-15 is the only weapon you have to fire 30,000 rounds out of, before you can determine if you have "a good one"? It borders on the ridiculous. No one brings this up with any other type of firearm. Glocks, 1911's, H&K's, Ruger Mini 14's, Springfield M1-A's, M1 Garands, none. But tell a ninja you shoot "only" 5,000 rounds a year out of your AR, and right away you're a "hobby shooter". These are the same guys who will tell you they, "wouldn't trust their life to a 1 in 9" twist barrel". Like it matters when you are performing 30 round mag dumps into silhouette targets from 7 yards away. For 90% of the "training" they do, at the ranges they do it at, they could be shooting a .224 diameter smooth bore and it wouldn't matter.

lilro
04-23-2012, 12:58 AM
Have you ever noticed how the AR-15 is the only weapon you have to fire 30,000 rounds out of, before you can determine if you have "a good one"? It borders on the ridiculous. No one brings this up with any other type of firearm. Glocks, 1911's, H&K's, Ruger Mini 14's, Springfield M1-A's, M1 Garands, none. But tell a ninja you shoot "only" 5,000 rounds a year out of your AR, and right away you're a "hobby shooter". These are the same guys who will tell you they, "wouldn't trust their life to a 1 in 9" twist barrel". Like it matters when you are performing 30 round mag dumps into silhouette targets from 7 yards away. For 90% of the "training" they do, at the ranges they do it at, they could be shooting a .224 diameter smooth bore and it wouldn't matter.

I think that's because so many different manufacturers make an AR pattern rifle. There are quality differences between them. Any manufacturer worth anything can make it accurate in slow fire, low round count scenarios. Streneous use is what seperates the quality from the mediocre. I see this in 1911's as well. 1911s have a 100 year proven track record. The AR does not. Putting a lot of rounds through in a short amount of time sort of "tests" the components.

billt
04-23-2012, 2:37 AM
1911s have a 100 year proven track record. The AR does not.

The AR-15 has been around since the mid 50's. It's over a half century old, and has been through many wars and conflicts in that time. If it hasn't "proven itself" by now it never will. Let alone by rapid fire mall ninjas. The gun, just like any other, is what it is. Besides, most of these AR-15 manufacturers buy their components from just a few places who supply all of the major builders. These guys beating the hell out of their weapons with a lot of rapid fire proves nothing. Simply because it is not anymore of a realistic test of quality than beating up a high performance car until it breaks. If a weapon is properly cared for and lubricated, it will run regardless of who made it, or how fast it is shot.

FeuerFrei
04-23-2012, 11:40 AM
ahren111
i never suggested you "drill' your carrier.
using different sized, correct size drill bit will help deternine if the allignment is off of if a burr is present.
you can do this by hand.
i hope the new one is correct.

HK Dave
04-23-2012, 12:17 PM
Have you ever noticed how the AR-15 is the only weapon you have to fire 30,000 rounds out of, before you can determine if you have "a good one"? It borders on the ridiculous. No one brings this up with any other type of firearm. Glocks, 1911's, H&K's, Ruger Mini 14's, Springfield M1-A's, M1 Garands, none. But tell a ninja you shoot "only" 5,000 rounds a year out of your AR, and right away you're a "hobby shooter". These are the same guys who will tell you they, "wouldn't trust their life to a 1 in 9" twist barrel". Like it matters when you are performing 30 round mag dumps into silhouette targets from 7 yards away. For 90% of the "training" they do, at the ranges they do it at, they could be shooting a .224 diameter smooth bore and it wouldn't matter.

Rofl +1

ahren111
04-23-2012, 9:03 PM
i hope the new one is correct.

Thanks so do I! It will be here tomorrow, I'll find out soon :)

green338
06-01-2012, 8:12 AM
Thanks so do I! It will be here tomorrow, I'll find out soon :)

So, did the new one work out for you? Let us know! I have a YM 308 carrier that I bought a while back and have not used. Hopefully, I won't run into problems when the time comes.

toyturbo
06-01-2012, 10:26 AM
FYI, even if Young Manufacturing doesn't admit it, their 308 NM carrier uses standard AR15
retaining pins, like what was previously stated! Trust me on this one, I had a reputable AR gunsmith try different size pins and the only one that fit correctly was the standard AR15 pin. These pins were designed to go in and out without any use of tools for field cleaning ease. If the pin don't fit, don't force it!

green338
06-01-2012, 10:39 AM
Did Young MFG ever create a complete 308 bolt carrier group? I know they have a few 308 carriers floating around, but I am wondering if they have/had a bolt?


One has to remember that with 308AR's there is more than one blueprint, it's not like AR15's where it does not matter in the company--all parts are mostly interchangeable.

I'm wondering what 308 bolt did Young use to design their carrier's? ...was it DPMS or one of their own, maybe?

toyturbo
06-01-2012, 11:02 AM
Young does offer a chrome-lined bolt of their own last time I checked.

ahren111
06-01-2012, 4:40 PM
So, did the new one work out for you? Let us know! I have a YM 308 carrier that I bought a while back and have not used. Hopefully, I won't run into problems when the time comes.


Ya the new one works great! The pin went right in.


FYI, even if Young Manufacturing doesn't admit it, their 308 NM carrier uses standard AR15
retaining pins, like what was previously stated! Trust me on this one, I had a reputable AR gunsmith try different size pins and the only one that fit correctly was the standard AR15 pin. These pins were designed to go in and out without any use of tools for field cleaning ease. If the pin don't fit, don't force it!

I think their first batch of 308 carriers used the AR15 pin. The new ones take a dpms 308 pin. I tried a AR15 pin & it just falls right out.

ahren111
06-01-2012, 4:52 PM
Did Young MFG ever create a complete 308 bolt carrier group? I know they have a few 308 carriers floating around, but I am wondering if they have/had a bolt?


One has to remember that with 308AR's there is more than one blueprint, it's not like AR15's where it does not matter in the company--all parts are mostly interchangeable.

I'm wondering what 308 bolt did Young use to design their carrier's? ...was it DPMS or one of their own, maybe?

When I got my carrier they were not making a 308 bolt yet. I got a JP enhanced bolt & it fits great in the young carrier.