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View Full Version : Steel Core rounds a no-go at angeles shooting range


sreiter
04-18-2012, 4:45 PM
I was over at the angeles shooting range, and the ROs were walking around with magnets testing everyone's rounds -

WTF? Never had that happen to me before. Is this something new, or is this range specific?

thanks

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2012, 4:48 PM
Been that way for many YEARS. Welcome to fire prone areas. I've been at Angeles for two fires (neither started there or from gunfire) and it's a scary place to be when you see 100 foot flames coming towards you.

baih777
04-18-2012, 4:51 PM
On saturdays they always check. Its always been that way. Non magnetic ammo only.

Chaos47
04-18-2012, 5:02 PM
Nothing new.
It's on their rules on there website
http://www.angelesranges.com/rules.pdf

10.. No steel core, steel jacketed ,bi-metal rounds (bullets that stick to a magnet), armorpiercing or tracer ammunition are allowed on the range. All ammunition is subject to inspection
by range staff members at any time or anywhere on the property in order to insure compliance to this
rule. Confiscated ammo will be secured in the office to be returned to the shooter at the
completion of their shooting day. Unclaimed ammo will be disposed of after five weeks.

Bug Guy
04-18-2012, 5:16 PM
i was there monday shoot most of the day 10-2 and never got checked....

Arson
04-18-2012, 5:33 PM
I was there one day and my ammo was felt up more than a trip through TSA screening.

Kamo850
04-18-2012, 5:40 PM
I once had a guy there check my ammo, even when it was identical and packaged the same way as the ammo they sell in their shop. So, nothing new here, it seems they're sometimes more strict about checking than at other times.

anybody who knows of la area ranges that allow magnetic ammo, please tell us.

joash
04-18-2012, 5:43 PM
The real reason is that they don't want people using Russian ammo with non-brass cases that they can't scoop up and sell. They can't just say that, so they come up with this "magnetic" stuff.

I've yet to see a fire started by steel core anywhere.

Plus, if you do make the mistake of bringing magnetic ammo, then they can sell you some ammo from their store if you want to shoot with the gun you brought.

five.five-six
04-18-2012, 5:43 PM
I was there one day and my ammo was felt up more than a trip through TSA screening.

wait, you got a reacharound :confused:


steel core is a no-go at most ranges

The Gleam
04-18-2012, 5:50 PM
The real reason is that they don't want people using Russian ammo with non-brass cases that they can't scoop up and sell. They can't just say that, so they come up with this "magnetic" stuff.

I've yet to see a fire started by steel core anywhere.

Plus, if you do make the mistake of bringing magnetic ammo, then they can sell you some ammo from their store if you want to shoot with the gun you brought.

Nope: I was actually at Angeles about 5 years ago, when a small fire started in the far back of the rifle portion just before it begins to go up the hill. Damnedest thing and i wouldn't have believed it unless I saw it with my own eyes, merely because of how fast it popped up. A little fire, about the size of a backyard bon-fire. It rose up quick but it didn't have much place to spread as the surrounding area was cleared of all brush. They called a cease fire and a pick-up truck drove out there and put it out. they got to it rather fast. Shooting resumed, and all cheered/clapped for the "fire crew".

Also, there was an admitted brush fire to have started at a range here several years ago that did cause a lot of damage; I can't recall if that was Angeles or San Gabriel, or ???; but the range admitted the fault.

joash
04-18-2012, 5:56 PM
But how do you know what started it?

Scratch705
04-18-2012, 6:02 PM
The real reason is that they don't want people using Russian ammo with non-brass cases that they can't scoop up and sell. They can't just say that, so they come up with this "magnetic" stuff.

I've yet to see a fire started by steel core anywhere.

Plus, if you do make the mistake of bringing magnetic ammo, then they can sell you some ammo from their store if you want to shoot with the gun you brought.

do we really need to pull up all the threads talking/showing what happened at the burro canyon range?

bi-metal ammo, steel core ammo causes sparks when hit against hard objects (ie rock). sparks + dried brush = fire.

man it is just getting tiring trying to convince the idiots to not bring bi-metal/steel core ammo to outdoor ranges due to the fire hazard that they cause. :facepalm:

sreiter
04-18-2012, 6:34 PM
first time at that range...I've never been checked at wes thompson

zfields
04-18-2012, 6:38 PM
wait, you got a reacharound :confused:


steel core is a no-go at most ranges

Most So-Cal ranges, not so at most northern CA ranges.

G-forceJunkie
04-18-2012, 6:39 PM
I guess you wernt at Angeles 7 weeks ago, steel core ammo started a fire on Febuary 26th. There is a thread with pictures here on calguns. It happens, but it must be a money making conspiricy.

Edit, found it:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=540747

The real reason is that they don't want people using Russian ammo with non-brass cases that they can't scoop up and sell. They can't just say that, so they come up with this "magnetic" stuff.

I've yet to see a fire started by steel core anywhere.

Plus, if you do make the mistake of bringing magnetic ammo, then they can sell you some ammo from their store if you want to shoot with the gun you brought.

Capybara
04-18-2012, 6:43 PM
I have spoken with the owners of Wes Thompson in Piru and they definitely have a no magnetic ammo policy.

Winchester Canyon in Santa Barbara
Desert Marksman in Antelope Valley
Burbank Rifle and Revolver Club in Castaic

All allow magnetic ammo but no AP, tracer, incendiary, of course. All are private membership clubs. I know of no outdoor public ranges within a reasonable distance of LA/SFV that allow magnetic ammo. That's why I am always wondering where all of the AK owners actually go to shoot in SoCal? Just BLM way out in the desert?

sreiter
04-18-2012, 6:53 PM
so much for those great deals on milsup ammo

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2012, 7:03 PM
The real reason is that they don't want people using Russian ammo with non-brass cases that they can't scoop up and sell. They can't just say that, so they come up with this "magnetic" stuff.

I've yet to see a fire started by steel core anywhere.

Plus, if you do make the mistake of bringing magnetic ammo, then they can sell you some ammo from their store if you want to shoot with the gun you brought.

Your TFH is a bit tight today. I've NEVER had a problem shooting Russian made, steel cased, non magnetic bullets at Angeles. But, it is good to know that they do sell ammo there. Most outdoor ranges don't.

I guess your a little late to the party but, I clue you in to something. For well over a thousand years man has made fire by striking "flint and steel" together. Actually, flint or another suitable stone is used to shave off flakes of steel fast. This causes those steel shavings to heat up and burn. That's the sparks you end up seeing. Well, a bullet core or jacket which contains iron can hit a rock hard enough to do the same thing. Guess what, these sparks can and do cause fires.:eek:

Eljay
04-18-2012, 7:27 PM
Most So-Cal ranges, not so at most northern CA ranges.

I think there are also some ranges that are wobblers - you can shoot steel core during the rainy season.

joash
04-18-2012, 7:47 PM
Of course they won't stop you from shooting the rare steel cased non-magnetic ammo, but the real issue for them is loss of revenue from scooping up all the brass, so the no magnetic ammo rule is the best they can come up with without sounding like total jerks.

Militaries all over the place spray tons (literally) of steel-core as well as tracer or worse ammo in very dry brush without any problems whatsoever.



Your TFH is a bit tight today. I've NEVER had a problem shooting Russian made, steel cased, non magnetic bullets at Angeles. But, it is good to know that they do sell ammo there. Most outdoor ranges don't.

I guess your a little late to the party but, I clue you in to something. For well over a thousand years man has made fire by striking "flint and steel" together. Actually, flint or another suitable stone is used to shave off flakes of steel fast. This causes those steel shavings to heat up and burn. That's the sparks you end up seeing. Well, a bullet core or jacket which contains iron can hit a rock hard enough to do the same thing. Guess what, these sparks can and do cause fires.:eek:

Capybara
04-18-2012, 7:54 PM
I am thinking about joining DM and BRRC so I may be able to buy and obtain an AK and actually shoot it. I also have a CMP Garand shipping any day along with 600 rounds of HXP. Winchester will be worth checking out for me too, I live in Ventura County so going to DM or BRRC is about the same haul as going up to Winchester Canyon. I have not shot at any of the three so I want to settle on a club and go shoot steel core ammo.

Mssr. Eleganté
04-18-2012, 8:09 PM
...Militaries all over the place spray tons (literally) of steel-core as well as tracer or worse ammo in very dry brush without any problems whatsoever.

I know that the shooting range at Camp Pendleton used to have brush fires every once in a while. Several Calgunners have mentioned that they have accidently started small fires by shooting steel jacketed ammo. Of course they could all be in on the scheme to help So-Cal ranges recycle their brass more easily. :rolleyes:

jbush
04-18-2012, 8:17 PM
The real reason is that they don't want people using Russian ammo with non-brass cases that they can't scoop up and sell. They can't just say that, so they come up with this "magnetic" stuff.

I've yet to see a fire started by steel core anywhere.

Plus, if you do make the mistake of bringing magnetic ammo, then they can sell you some ammo from their store if you want to shoot with the gun you brought.

Believe what you like. There is no conspiracy to sell ammo. Most of these ranges are on forestry dept land and steel core ammo is a fire hazard per the forestry dept. . Some allow it during the non fire season. I believe at Lytle it's in their lease on the land. Using it against Forestry Dept advice, not to, only closes more ranges. It's far better for the range operators to get along with the Forestry Dept then to loss the lease. This is California and there are a lot of people who would like to see these ranges close.

scamp62
04-18-2012, 8:23 PM
To :Joash
FYI you can keep your brass if you what it at Angeles, and they donate the brass to help fund the local Boy Scouts, also if you look on the edge of the rifle benches you will find a magnet, the rule has been in place for some time. So there is no big conspiracy to steel your brass, if you want it pick it up, and go home with it.

a308garand
04-18-2012, 8:23 PM
Angeles is serious about their rules regarding ammo.

One of the range staff pointed out that every shooting bench (on the left side) has a medium sized flat/round magnet glued to the rear facing leg of the bench.

If in doubt, the magnet is right there to check.

I save my older Lake City M2 ball for shooting there. The Greek M2 travels elsewhere.:shifty:

Merc1138
04-18-2012, 9:30 PM
Of course they won't stop you from shooting the rare steel cased non-magnetic ammo, but the real issue for them is loss of revenue from scooping up all the brass, so the no magnetic ammo rule is the best they can come up with without sounding like total jerks.

Militaries all over the place spray tons (literally) of steel-core as well as tracer or worse ammo in very dry brush without any problems whatsoever.

Dude... to sort steel cases from the brass, you realize all they need is a magnet, right? They even make push broom looking objects that are basically rollers with magnets and a basket for the steel cases to land in just to make sorting it out easier.

https://www.google.com/search?q=magnetic%20broom#q=magnetic+broom&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbo=u&tbm=shop&source=og&sa=N&tab=wf&ei=X5SPT-H_Ie3WiAKDk_iTAw&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=e040e1c25aedeb6f

You can get a magnetic broom for under $50. I'd accuse you of wearing a tinfoil hat, but instead I'll ask if you're a fan of these guys since apparently magnets are difficult for you to understand:

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/395/magnets_c.jpg

killshot44
04-18-2012, 10:09 PM
Most So-Cal ranges, not so at most northern CA ranges.

United Sportsmen in Concord does NOT allow any magnet-attracting ammo.
PMC is CHEAP, kids. Handloads are even better. :cool2:



/pay no mind to joash, he's just jelly cause he's in Antarctica. :facepalm:

paratroop
04-18-2012, 10:42 PM
first time at that range...I've never been checked at wes thompson

I've been checked at Wes Thompson's. Most of the time you could probably get by at any range, but I just follow the rules and shoot the cheap stuff somewhere else.

pacifico23
04-18-2012, 10:47 PM
They discriminate towards AK's, and rightfully so.

Ive gone there for 3 years and never had my ammo checked. The first time I go there with my saiga they check my ammo and have every time I have brought I since.

hyeg35
04-18-2012, 11:10 PM
Anyone know how much they charge for rifle ammo? Specifically 7.62x39?

tujungatoes
04-18-2012, 11:12 PM
I live 15 minutes from Angeles. Been going there for years. The magnetic ammo rule has been in place since before I started going.

There is no ammo sales con going on there. Joash is either a lousy troll or a complete effing moron. I'm gonna hope for his sake he's just a troll. It is a REAL fire hazard. I too have been there when a fire started and seen someone leave the line in a big damn hurry their russian surplus 54r cases still on the ground. When the forest service has to come put out a fire it aint cheap. This is why they're such ammo Nazis. So that we can all continue to have a nice place to shoot.

...and they don't discriminate against AK's there. Alot of people go there with ak's and have no idea about the ammo restrictions. They just buy whats cheap, and sadly whats cheap is magnetic so they have to be on the look out. They used to check my ammo all the time, but I think most of the guys that have been there for a while know me and that I don't f**k around.

Anyone know how much they charge for rifle ammo? Specifically 7.62x39?

An arm and a leg.:( They usually only stock fiocchi. I wish they could still get the wolf black/yellow box ammo. Do yourself a favor and buy as much yugo surplus x39 as you can. Non-magnetic and shoots great.

vintagearms
04-18-2012, 11:15 PM
I guess you wernt at Angeles 7 weeks ago, steel core ammo started a fire on Febuary 26th. There is a thread with pictures here on calguns. It happens, but it must be a money making conspiricy.

Edit, found it:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=540747

I can attest to that. Was shooting a tactical pistol class at Eagles Nest that day and it got shut down due to fire started by ammo.

ChaneRZ
04-18-2012, 11:23 PM
I use Tula bimetal and it is magnetic. I do not use steel core bullets though. I've been shooting there and also most people shoot Tula bimetal in 223 or 7.62 . The backstop on the public rifle is dirt.

This is from post way back:

09-20-2010, 1:30 PM
Hi, Guys. We do not allow steel bullets on the Multi-purpose (club member) range due to fire danger from the grassy hill we use for a backstop. At the Public range, Steel core is OK because they have dirt berms as a backstop. If a steel core bullet hit a rock on the hillside and started a fire, the whole hillside would go up in about two minutes.

Joe (Multi-purpose range RangeMaster)

United Sportsmen in Concord does NOT allow any magnet-attracting ammo.
PMC is CHEAP, kids. Handloads are even better. :cool2:



/pay no mind to joash, he's just jelly cause he's in Antarctica. :facepalm:

Beetle Bailey
04-18-2012, 11:31 PM
I joke around and say they "discriminate" against com-bloc rifles :p If you are shooting a Mosin, AK, or SKS they always make sure to check your ammo. Handloads thru my Remington 700? Not so much.

BTW I was just there last weekend with my cousin. He was shooting his SKS and I gave him some of the old "yellow tag" Wolf ammo that has a steel case and non-magnetic bullet. The RSO's were totally cool with it - they don't care about steel cases, only steel bullets. It only takes them 5 seconds to check. I've been going there for 5 years now and that's always been the case.

Oh, and quick science lesson: all you need for a fire is fuel, oxygen, and a spark. ASR pretty much has dry brush year-round. There is no shortage of oxygen there. I've made sparks shooting AR500 steel with steel bullets before (shooting on BLM land). And I was there too at the last fire at ASR. Ruined my day as well as the days of hundreds of people because someone was selfish. :no:

Capybara
04-19-2012, 12:24 AM
PMC is CHEAP, kids. PMC USED to be CHEAP, kids

Fixed that for you!

Army
04-19-2012, 8:13 AM
We allow it all at SLOSA :)

Normal lead core bullets can also start fires from sparks. When impacting steel, the cratering, or holing, of the steel target will result in sparking of the now heated steel fragments of the target. While steel core will introduce more steel to the impact, and likely create much more hot metal, do not discount normal ammunition.

joash
04-19-2012, 12:20 PM
Okay, you guys have convinced me. Shooting steel core ammo is the equivalent of using a flame thrower. I will only use it at sea from now on just to be on the safe side.

RELOAD243
04-19-2012, 6:02 PM
The real reason is that they don't want people using Russian ammo with non-brass cases that they can't scoop up and sell. They can't just say that, so they come up with this "magnetic" stuff.

I've yet to see a fire started by steel core anywhere.

Plus, if you do make the mistake of bringing magnetic ammo, then they can sell you some ammo from their store if you want to shoot with the gun you brought.

You missed the last fire, also the Forest Service took his 50bmg rifle.

CSACANNONEER
04-19-2012, 6:18 PM
You missed the last fire, also the Forest Service took his 50bmg rifle.

Was this at Angeles? Any links to the story?

joefreas
04-19-2012, 6:22 PM
also the Forest Service took his 50bmg rifle.

:eek::eek:

G-forceJunkie
04-19-2012, 6:29 PM
I posted a link to the story on the fire in my post above. Didn't hear about the rifle confiscation.Was this at Angeles? Any links to the story?

Beetle Bailey
04-19-2012, 7:04 PM
Was this at Angeles? Any links to the story?

Yes it was at ASR. A little after 1 PM on that day a fire started on the rifle (left) side of the range, out beyond the 600 yard line. Also, a guy was caught with non-approved 50 cal ammo on that side. Whether his bullet was the one that started the fire or not, I cannot say. But the assumption is that it was his bullet that started the fire. He ended up being questioned by the police while a ton of firefighters, trucks, and aircraft put out the fire. The range was closed for the rest of the day and the office handed out refunds to everyone. I don't know what became of him. Check G-forceJunkie's link for pictures.