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View Full Version : Best Fixed Stock Route for Featureless Build?


Colonel Monk
04-18-2012, 1:02 PM
Howdy Guys:

I'm looking to reconfigure my AR to featureless so that I can use my "pre-ban" std cap mags here in CA without the hassle.

Changing out my YHM front sight to remove gas block with bayonet lug, and looking at the monsterman grip or solar tactical skin on my Hogue grip.

I'm not sure what to do for the stock.

I have short arms so I always prefer a shorter stock, which is why I've enjoyed the collapsible stock.

I guess the options are to pin the telescoping stock or go with a fixed A2 style.

I've see that the A2 is available in shorter lengths.

I go to Nevada to shoot more than I shoot here, so something that is easily reversible I like. So, the pistol grip skin can be removed, and if there was an easy but legal way to "un-pin" the stock that would be cool too.

What do you think?

Thanks,

CM

FIREBALL_BRIAN
04-18-2012, 1:13 PM
Look at the ace stocks and exile machine has mult configurations on there site to help you visualise your setup.

tacticalcity
04-18-2012, 1:15 PM
I like the Calvary Arms A1 Length fixed stocks. They give the look of the traditional A2 that people are used to, with the more practical shorter length for running and gunning.

Chaos47
04-18-2012, 1:28 PM
Theres probably more out there but heres a short list I have on my featureless build guide (https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=14Sc8MNP9AO6JgHxcnqm5oR45LDLIhpqeBHsCN8-K4XU&pli=1):

A1

A2 (5/8ths Longer then A1. Needs Buffer Tube Spacer and longer Screw)

VLTOR Rifle Modstock

M.A.G.S. EFX-A1

ACE Skeleton

Sully Stock

RAA Operator A2


Personally I run a Club Foot A1 Vltor Rifle Modstock as you can get them on sale for 50 bucks..
http://www.vltorstore.com/clearance-arm-rifle-stocks/
(limited colors and configurations left)

joelogic
04-18-2012, 1:35 PM
I really like my A1 Vltor.

Chaos47
04-18-2012, 1:40 PM
Interesting note about the Vltor Rifle Modstock is it can be run on either the rifle buffer tube or a carbine tube.

Personally I run it on a rifle tube because on a carbine tube you can manually change the position. While I have been told that does not constitute a telescoping stock I wanted to stay well clear of that. Plus rifle buffers almost as heavy as H3 buffers but way cheaper. Also on a rifle tube it will be in its shortest configuration.

Exile Machine
04-18-2012, 1:58 PM
One of the most versatile stocks for featureless is the ACE ARUL-E (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/ace-arul-e-ultralight-stock-entry-complete-assembled-stock-6.html). This stock can be used with all featureless grips currently on the market. It's short and maneuverable in tight quarters. It's extremely lightweight and strong.

http://www.exilemachine.net/shop/images/I/IMG_1215.JPG

This stock can be used with three possible configurations of our CA-Legal Hammerhead AR-15 grip (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/exile-machine-hammerhead-ar-15-grip-black-1.html). The ARUL-E is worth taking a look at, whether you run featureless or not.

FeuerFrei
04-18-2012, 2:03 PM
bayonet lugs are not an evil feature on featureless.
muzzle brake dujour or thread protector on barrel.
A2 stock has spare parts cleaning kit storage and or add weights in there if your rig is front heavy.

Chaos47
04-18-2012, 2:11 PM
Good point FeuerFrei, I missed that!
OP, He is right you do not have to remove your bayonet lug as they are not a listed feature.

vta
04-18-2012, 2:20 PM
Rock river makes a shortened version of the fixed stock with the looks of an a2.

http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=299

http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/products/stckentr.gif

toyotaguy
04-18-2012, 9:34 PM
Theres probably more out there but heres a short list I have on my featureless build guide (https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=14Sc8MNP9AO6JgHxcnqm5oR45LDLIhpqeBHsCN8-K4XU&pli=1):

A1

A2 (5/8ths Longer then A1. Needs Buffer Tube Spacer and longer Screw)

VLTOR Rifle Modstock

M.A.G.S. EFX-A1

ACE Skeleton

Sully Stock

RAA Operator A2


Personally I run a Club Foot A1 Vltor Rifle Modstock as you can get them on sale for 50 bucks..
http://www.vltorstore.com/clearance-arm-rifle-stocks/
(limited colors and configurations left)

Does the vltor stock require a receiver extension to use it? Or am I misreading their website.

Cool guide by the way.

IPSICK
04-18-2012, 9:42 PM
Any of the A1 length stocks work pretty nice. Also, the Magpul CTR/ACS type stocks are really easy to pin and unpin with a clipped and bent paper clip if you know how.

hayaku
04-18-2012, 9:47 PM
i pinned my vltor emod... using a solartactical wrap and muzzle brake to go featureless.

just adjusted to where i wanted it. took the battery compartments off drilled a small hole. then i used a self taping small screw and pinned it. the battery compartments hide the screw. everything looks normal except the stock cannot move.

paratroop
04-18-2012, 10:52 PM
One of the most versatile stocks for featureless is the ACE ARUL-E (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/ace-arul-e-ultralight-stock-entry-complete-assembled-stock-6.html). This stock can be used with all featureless grips currently on the market. It's short and maneuverable in tight quarters. It's extremely lightweight and strong.

http://www.exilemachine.net/shop/images/I/IMG_1215.JPG

This stock can be used with three possible configurations of our CA-Legal Hammerhead AR-15 grip (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/exile-machine-hammerhead-ar-15-grip-black-1.html). The ARUL-E is worth taking a look at, whether you run featureless or not.

just completed my latest ar with this stock. Literally today. I havent had a chance to shoot it yet, but I already like it. Ive got this stock, hammerhead grip, and a knurled thread protector on my 6.5 pound half old school half space age dissapator.

shadowofnight
04-18-2012, 11:00 PM
My VLTOR came in today for my 260 Remington Featureless build , I can finally go shoot her now.

Hell of a stock for 49 bucks , I only ordered the VLTOR because the new Magpul MOE Rifle stock hasnt arrived yet. ( I have it on order )




http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=146008&d=1334815177

shadowofnight
04-18-2012, 11:21 PM
i pinned my vltor emod... using a solartactical wrap and muzzle brake to go featureless.

just adjusted to where i wanted it. took the battery compartments off drilled a small hole. then i used a self taping small screw and pinned it. the battery compartments hide the screw. everything looks normal except the stock cannot move.


I actually just built 2 more featureless rifles, the 308 class AR above...and another lil ole 5.56.

I blind pinned the VLTOR I put on the 5.56, and added 2 button head 6-32 allen screws as well. I drilled and tapped the buffer tube in the adjustment area, went 3/4's of the way through and then used a bottom tap to thread.

The storage compartments still rotate open easily. :)



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=146017&d=1334816277


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=146015&d=1334816251


http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=146016&d=1334816264

reidnez
04-19-2012, 11:45 AM
I'd definitely recommend an A1-style stock for you. Simple, cheap, effective, good cheek weld, nothing to rattle or work loose. Why mess with a good thing? No offense to others who go this route, but I see no point in having a collapsible stock when you have to pin it...really, I don't see much point to a collapsible stock at all, but that's just me.

wsmc27
04-19-2012, 11:55 AM
I'd definitely recommend an A1-style stock for you. Simple, cheap, effective, good cheek weld, nothing to rattle or work loose. Why mess with a good thing? No offense to others who go this route, but I see no point in having a collapsible stock when you have to pin it...really, I don't see much point to a collapsible stock at all, but that's just me.

^^ I agree, running A1 solid stock on our primary AR (featureless).

Though we are going to try the ARUL-E we got from Exile a while back, in conjunction with that plastic lower from NFA ( http://www.lw15.com/ ) for a lightweight assembly.

There is also that RRA "Entry Stock" that runs the carbine buffer and spring, for short armed people that might be a nice option?

And that said, noting OP said he likes the collapsible...should be easy enough to pin one of his choice at lop he prefers.

Lot's of great ideas on thread.

Chaos47
04-19-2012, 5:35 PM
Does the vltor stock require a receiver extension to use it? Or am I misreading their website.

Cool guide by the way.

Thanks!

Not exactly sure what you mean by receiver extension.

The Rifle modstock is unique that it can be put on either a rifle or carbine buffer tube

See here for photos
http://www.militarymorons.com/weapons/ar.furniture.html
Scroll down

If you mean you want to run the A2 length one on a rifle tube then yes you need an A2 buffer tube spacer.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/9/1/9170a_1.jpg


If you get the A1 length you do not need the tube extension

I would say get an A1 length and run it on a rifle tube. That will be the shortest configuration. If at a later day you decide to change it to a carbine tube it will come out to be about the length of an A2 because of the end plate / castle nut / tube design. If you put an A2 length on a carbine tube its going to be even longer

tomd1584
04-19-2012, 9:27 PM
Don't limit yourself. All you need is your favorite stock and a roll pin. I've pinned a MOE, CTR, and a SOPMOD all with just one roll pin.

Model17
04-19-2012, 9:44 PM
Do you have pictures of your pinned SOPMOD?

Colonel Monk
04-21-2012, 9:59 AM
Interesting note about the Vltor Rifle Modstock is it can be run on either the rifle buffer tube or a carbine tube.

Personally I run it on a rifle tube because on a carbine tube you can manually change the position. While I have been told that does not constitute a telescoping stock I wanted to stay well clear of that. Plus rifle buffers almost as heavy as H3 buffers but way cheaper. Also on a rifle tube it will be in its shortest configuration.

I've see this mentioned alot, rifle vs carbine tube.....

What's the major difference? Seem to me the bolt travels the same regardless of whether it's a full-length A2, A collapsible M4, or AR pistol.

Do they perform the same?

tomd1584
04-21-2012, 11:12 AM
Do you have pictures of your pinned SOPMOD?

Sure, I'll post them tonight- wife and I are off to a wedding. But basically all you're doing is drilling a hole anywhere through the adjustment lever and the body of the stock, preventing the latch from moving up/down.

Fate
04-21-2012, 5:01 PM
Sully (shorter than A1, longer than Entry). Just perfect.

http://i48.tinypic.com/nb590.jpg

BigfootHunter
04-22-2012, 12:57 AM
I really like my Calvalry Arms C1 (http://www.cavalryarms.com/cgi-bin/mivavm?/Merchant2/merchant.mvc+Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CA&Product_Code=C1&Category_Code=AFZ) (A1 length), use it on my featureless. It's a little cheaper than some of the others and I got it in tan, which is nice if you don't want black. It's still got the trap door, but the stock itself has more room to store things, as it is molded in, which I like.

Scratch705
04-22-2012, 1:47 AM
this is the kind of info thread i've been looking for in order to research for my next AR which would be featureless.

Colonel Monk
04-22-2012, 12:36 PM
Sully (shorter than A1, longer than Entry). Just perfect.

http://i48.tinypic.com/nb590.jpg

Fate, I really like your setup. What pistolgrip is that?

ALL, a question on the use of a "pinned" M4 style stock....

My buddy has a colt stock that has a Lock in addition to the usual adjustment lever...

Does that count for anything? I was explaining to him I didn't think it fit the definition of "pinned" but his opinion was that it locked and should be GTG...

Your thoughts please....

Also, do you have to use a roll pin or will a properly fit dowel pin work? I've heard that roll pins are a PITA to get in and out (and regular life experience backs this up) so I was thinking a properly sized dowel pin and a punch might work better...

CM

hayaku
04-22-2012, 12:51 PM
Fate, I really like your setup. What pistolgrip is that?

ALL, a question on the use of a "pinned" M4 style stock....

My buddy has a colt stock that has a Lock in addition to the usual adjustment lever...

Does that count for anything? I was explaining to him I didn't think it fit the definition of "pinned" but his opinion was that it locked and should be GTG...

Your thoughts please....

Also, do you have to use a roll pin or will a properly fit dowel pin work? I've heard that roll pins are a PITA to get in and out (and regular life experience backs this up) so I was thinking a properly sized dowel pin and a punch might work better...

CM

i wouldn't be testing the legal limits of where that setup lies... i would think that if you can easily manipulate the stock to make it collapse (ie: no tools), then you are out of compliance. just my opinion tho. others man disagree.

also, you don't need to use a roll pin. anything that pins the stock can we used. i used a small self tapping screw. others have used hex drive set screws. whatever works to pin that stock from moving and requires a tool to change would work fine. a roll pin can be removed with tools (hammer and punch). set screws, screws, etc all require tools too so i think you would be safe with this setup.

Fate
04-22-2012, 1:27 PM
Fate, I really like your setup. What pistolgrip is that?

Thanks. It's gone thru quite a few iterations, but I'm really happy with everything on it at the moment.

Re: the grip. It's a self-modified CAA G27 grip with a steel fin. I've posted elsewhere numerous times how I did it.

GettoPhilosopher
04-22-2012, 1:53 PM
I've see this mentioned alot, rifle vs carbine tube.....

What's the major difference? Seem to me the bolt travels the same regardless of whether it's a full-length A2, A collapsible M4, or AR pistol.

Do they perform the same?

Depending on buffer weight, a rifle tube is usually softer shooting and can be more reliable.

YMMV, etc.

abishai
07-19-2012, 7:38 AM
Thanks for this thread, guys. Forgive me if I'm dense, but I'm a noob and I've only ever fired an AR once and it was with a traditional fixed A1 (M16 style) stock. I have short arms (I'm only 5'6") and found the stock a bit longer than I was comfortable with. So, my question is, what's the practical differences between the following and which would be the best for me.

Vltor Clubfoot A1 vs. A2
Vltor Modstock
Vltor Emod

Are all legal for CA Featureless builds, i.e., is it just personal preference?
What's the difference between a Rifle Modstock and a Carbine Modstock?
What is length of pull and how should I measure it for myself before purchasing one of these online?

Thanks!

Chaos47
07-22-2012, 10:45 PM
A Featureless Rifle can not have any of the following:
Pistol Grip.
Thumbhole stock.
Folding or telescoping stock.
Grenade launcher or flare launcher.
Flash suppressor.
Forward pistol grip.
https://sites.google.com/site/featurelessrifleguide/

So no it is not just a personal preference most of the stocks you listed are "telescoping" or commonly called collapsible.


There are 2 modstock types.
The rifle version and the collapsible.

IMOD, EMOD are just different style / generations of the collapsible modstock

Collapsible stocks are not legal on featureless rifles unless you do something to make them fixed.

There are 2 different main types of AR buffer tubes:

Rifle (Yes there are 2 types of these Commercial and Milspec)
http://i55.tinypic.com/35hl9pz.jpg

Rifle uses a rifle buffer as seen above. This is what A1 and A2 stocks use. To put an A2 on it you need a spacer and a longer A2 screw as seen above in my previous post

Carbine
http://westernsportonline.com/images/AR15%20Carbine%20Buffer%20Kit%20Mil%20comp%20for%2 0web.jpg
Uses a carbine buffer as seen above. These are what the multi position stocks use. For featureless a stock on this kind of tube must be pinned or fixed some how

You need to decide what type of stock you want and then that will tell you what buffer tube, spring and buffer you will use.

To make things even more confusing the Rifle Modstock is a unique stock in as it can go on either a rifle or carbine buffer tube. As far as I know it is the only stock out there that can do this. When on a carbine buffer tube it will have a longer LOP and be more like an A2 in length.

Personally I am running an A1 Rifle Modstock on a rifle tube. There is no doubt that it is fixed I feel it has a good LOP for me.

If you feel that A1 is too long for you then look into collapsible stocks and pinning them to make them fixed

vintagearms
07-22-2012, 10:56 PM
A1 or Ace.

Chaos47
07-22-2012, 11:18 PM
A1 or Ace. Here is a pic of mine. Eventually I'll get rid of my AFG for a handstop but for now it works.

http://i48.tinypic.com/3534cwi.jpg

Wow posting up a photo of an illegally configured rifle. Not smart...
AFG and BC your rifle is defiantly not featureless.

tonelar
07-22-2012, 11:19 PM
I thought AFG (while not considered a pistol grip federally) was not ok on a CA featureless long gun. Has that opinion changed?

Chaos47
07-22-2012, 11:23 PM
I thought AFG (while not considered a pistol grip federally) was not ok on a featureless. Has that opinion changed?

(c) "forward pistol grip" means a grip that allows for a pistol style grasp forward of the trigger.

Note that it doesnt say vertical anywhere in the definition. All it says is a grip that provides a pistol style grasp.

I wouldn't run one unless I was willing to be a test case. Why push it?


See here for more evidence by Fate
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=254388

readysetgo
07-22-2012, 11:36 PM
@ chaos

Why quote his pic, if you feel his build is not righteous? PM the guy for goodness sake.

Chaos47
07-22-2012, 11:42 PM
@ chaos

Why quote his pic, if you feel his build is not righteous? PM the guy for goodness sake.

vintagearms has gone around and around with many of us fighting us about what is legal on a featureless. He does not listen and feels his rifle is GTG.

I pretty much always use the quote button when referring to something in a thread to make it clear about what post I am talking about and who I am talking to. It keeps things cleaner in the thread. Same reason as I am quoting you to reply to you...

readysetgo
07-22-2012, 11:48 PM
@ chaos

Got it. Just meant quoting the actual pic. That's all.
Cheers!

edit for clarification:

I understand using the quote button, I was on my phone, doesn't give the option to quote.
I was trying to point out the irony of your response...
Wow posting up a photo of an illegally configured rifle.
as you're in effect reposting a picture of the rifle in question.

I would submit that if we see somebody posting something "illegal" we would first PM them and discuss it. At the least not repost their pic. That said, I understand there's a history there and both parties are aware so I would just suggest in this instance to delete the pic link when you quoted him. Notice he's taken down the pic in his post but your quote is still showing it.

On the subject of legality... I err on the side of caution, like you and wouldn't want to push as far as he is. However, I wouldn't say it's straight up "illegal".

blazeaglory
08-12-2012, 10:08 PM
That sucks becuase multiple injuries to my wrist make it hard for me to hold the front of my gun without an AFG or forward grip. I would like to see someone challenge the AFG definition. For instance, a pistol style "grasp" means to have a grasp on something as to hold onto it. I challenge anyone to try and grasp their AFG and turn the gun upside down and try to hold onto it. Its more or a hand rest really because you cant grasp it at all. Sure you can stick a finger into the hole and try to hold onto it but that is not a pistol grip style grasp. Either way I agree. When in doubt about legality, err on the side of caution. Sad to say an AFG will not be on my future featureless build until further clarification.

kf6tac
08-12-2012, 10:29 PM
Sully stock costs a bit more, but I really like it in conjunction with the MonsterMan since it's shorter than an A2 but doesn't require modding on the MonsterMan "fin".

Sent from my HTC_Flyer_P512_NA using Tapatalk 2

guitar-nut
08-13-2012, 1:01 AM
I'm thinking I might just pin a spare MOE stock I have to use with my hammerhead grip. I prefer the type 3 setup with the hammerhead, so that sadly rules out the A1, A2, and Sully stock. I'm considering one of the Ace stock variants, but am not sure if it's worth the money since I have an MOE lying around. But at the same time, I'm not sure I want to permanently mod an MOE stock.

Decisions, decisions...

MikeR
08-13-2012, 3:16 PM
All of my ARs have pinned MOEs and HH grips. Its a five minute job and MOEs are an inexpensive quality stock.

9mil ver.
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq234/MRibz/Firearms/Untitled-5.jpg

Drill hole add set screw or roll pin.
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq234/MRibz/Firearms/Untitled-9.jpg