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the86d
04-18-2012, 8:30 AM
http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/ar15-m16parts/boltCarrier.gif

I was looking up something else and came across this pic.

I noticed that my BCG is not of the typical AR-type with a cut-out to almost the back on the bottom. The one that came with it is, but the Nickel-Boron bolt I installed and never removed (never used the rifle with the factory BCG yet). I ordered a Semi BCG (well 2, and both are identical to the M16 BCG pictured), but received these that look to be M16-type BCGs.

I never really thought about it, but could I get into trouble for having this BCG in my rifle? (It looks identical to a M16 BCG, but I have no slot for a pin for a sear catch, nor a sear catch, nor the selector switch for one on any of my lowers, nor the hammer that would support it AFAIK, and only one of the lowers is fully built rifle.)

:TFH: Please advise... :confused:

Ziggy91
04-18-2012, 8:45 AM
Mine looks the same.
I think i'm wrong, and anyone is free to correct me, but i believe that form means it's a full-auto BCG. Mine's a Noveske, and they shipped it to CA no problem.

Remember the key to a select fire, or full-auto weapon is the trigger system.

CIV Tactical
04-18-2012, 8:45 AM
You are completely OK. It is not ILLEGAL to posses or use an M16 BCG. The M16 bcg has more mass to it as you can see its not cut like the AR15 and thats it. Its kinda like the difference between a heavy buffer and a standard buffer. The M16 grade BCG slows cycling down slightly and provides for a more reliable functioning firearm. No constructive intent here neither. Its the full auto fire control group and the AR pistol upper without a dedicated lower that can get you into trouble.

the86d
04-18-2012, 8:50 AM
AWESOME!

I just looked a the Spike's and R-Guns Nickel-Boron BCGs and both are the same, and I knew I couldn't be the only one. :)

That is a load off my mind after coming across that AR-15 thread with the posted pic!

I also read that if you have an AR pistol, you can't have any AR Rifles due to constructive possession, even if completed.

Is that true (I cannot find the thread again)?

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2012, 8:59 AM
Remember the key to a select fire, or full-auto weapon is the trigger system.

:eek::facepalm::eek: No the key is not having any FA only parts PERIOD. Then, there is the key about having a closed bolt system. Of course, there is also the key not to have a shoestring, lightning link, etc. I guess, there is more than one key that can and will get you into a 5x10 cell and the trigger system is only one of those "keys".

the86d
04-18-2012, 9:03 AM
:eek::facepalm::eek: No the key is not having any FA only parts PERIOD. Then, there is the key about having a closed bolt system. Of course, there is also the key not to have a shoestring, lightning link, etc. I guess, there is more than one key that can and will get you into a 5x10 cell and the trigger system is only one of those "keys".

So.... are you saying that it COULD be an issue with possession of this part (even if hundreds own one here)?

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2012, 9:08 AM
So.... are you saying that it COULD be an issue with possession of this part (even if hundreds own one here)?

No, FA BCGs are fine. ATF has opined on this many times and there is plenty of documentation to support their legality.

CIV Tactical
04-18-2012, 10:48 AM
AWESOME!

I just looked a the Spike's and R-Guns Nickel-Boron BCGs and both are the same, and I knew I couldn't be the only one. :)

That is a load off my mind after coming across that AR-15 thread with the posted pic!

I also read that if you have an AR pistol, you can't have any AR Rifles due to constructive possession, even if completed.

Is that true (I cannot find the thread again)?

You can have both. The key is having a dedicated AR pistol Lower. If you get a lower from an FFl and its intended for an AR pistol you have to register it as a pistol. If you mill an 80% for a pistol it should be engraved and has to be dedicated to AR pistol uppers. What you cant do is have AR rifles and Pistol uppers with no dedicated pistol lower. This is constructive intent for an SBR. And once you have assembled a lower into a rifle it can never be stripped down and used for a pistol.

Moonshine
04-18-2012, 11:03 AM
I've actually neve seen an AR-15 BCG in person. Since most manufacturers who make AR-15s also make M-16s an M-16 bolts are lawful in AR-15s why Would you manufacture more than one type of BCG?

hornswaggled
04-18-2012, 12:56 PM
Wow, CSA got banned? Wonder if it was for his posts in this thread.

OP I have a full auto bcg from Bravo Company. They have an explanation on their product page why it is perfectly legal to buy and use an FA bcg. Check out their site if you need further verification.

peter95
04-18-2012, 12:58 PM
Any bcg is ok.

It's not like it'll run fully auto if you use it.

the86d
04-18-2012, 1:04 PM
Wow, CSA got banned? Wonder if it was for his posts in this thread.

OP I have a full auto bcg from Bravo Company. They have an explanation on their product page why it is perfectly legal to buy and use an FA bcg. Check out their site if you need further verification.

No, I am good (prior posts)...

Thanks for the info y'all.

223556
04-18-2012, 1:06 PM
I know that a Full Auto BCG is not considered a machine gun part by the ATF so its good to go. (im sure there is more info in google on it)

Owning any type of Full Auto trigger/sear then your asking for trouble...

I prefer the Full Auto BCG's because its slightly heavier and makes a semi auto AR run smooth in my opinion with a Heavy Buffer.

the86d
04-18-2012, 1:13 PM
You can have both. The key is having a dedicated AR pistol Lower. If you get a lower from an FFl and its intended for an AR pistol you have to register it as a pistol. If you mill an 80% for a pistol it should be engraved and has to be dedicated to AR pistol uppers. What you cant do is have AR rifles and Pistol uppers with no dedicated pistol lower. This is constructive intent for an SBR. And once you have assembled a lower into a rifle it can never be stripped down and used for a pistol.

I have 2 more untouched lowers, but I already got them from my FFL...
(I went hog-wild and got 3 when I refi'd the house, in case some pinko-commie-bastard decides they want to ban new AR sales in the future.)

If I got her a pistol lower, would my lady be able to put a rifle upper on it while at the range (if she has the pistol upper with her at the time)?
OR after she put a rifle upper on it (even if it started as a pistol, and possibly marked as such), it would become a rifle forever (in the eyes of the law)?

ott1
04-18-2012, 2:07 PM
Wow, CSA got banned? Wonder if it was for his posts in this thread.

Not banned. Custom title.

CIV Tactical
04-18-2012, 3:53 PM
I have 2 more untouched lowers, but I already got them from my FFL...
(I went hog-wild and got 3 when I refi'd the house, in case some pinko-commie-bastard decides they want to ban new AR sales in the future.)

If I got her a pistol lower, would my lady be able to put a rifle upper on it while at the range (if she has the pistol upper with her at the time)?
OR after she put a rifle upper on it (even if it started as a pistol, and possibly marked as such), it would become a rifle forever (in the eyes of the law)?

You can put whatever upper you want on your pistol lower as long as you do not have a buttstock configuration on it. you must have a pistol buffer tube for or on your lower. So really your lady would be shooting a 16" barreled pistol or what not. As soon as she puts a buttstock configuration on the pistol it is no longer a pistol by classification and is now an SBR. The best thing to do is get her a pistol lower for her AR pistol uppers and keep it that way. If she wants to shoot or own a rifle as well she can shoot yours or get a lower for her rifle uppers. The flowcharts will help you see what you can and cant have for pistols and rifles.

jimx
04-18-2012, 4:17 PM
No, FA BCGs are fine. ATF has opined on this many times and there is plenty of documentation to support their legality.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8.pdf

Page 15

The definition of machinegun also includes a combination of parts from which a machinegun can be
assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person. An example of a firearm
meeting this section of the definition is a semiautomatic AR15 rifle possessed with an M16 bolt carrier,
hammer, trigger, disconnector and selector. If the semiautomatic AR15 is assembled with the described
M16 parts and the rifle is capable of fully automatic fire, the weapon possessed in conjunction with the
M16 parts, whether assembled or not, is a machinegun as defined.

Or Go to

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf

Page 155

In order to avoid violations of the
NFA, M16 hammers, triggers, disconnectors, selectors and bolt carriers must
not be used in assembly of AR-15 type
semiautomatic rifles, unless the M16
parts have been modified to AR-15
Model SP1 configuration. Any AR-15
type rifles which have been assembled
with M16 internal components should
have those parts removed and replaced
with AR-15 Model SP1 type parts which
are available commercially. The M16
components also may be modified to
AR-15 Model SP1 configuration.

Correct, ATF has opined on this many times...

Matt1989
04-18-2012, 10:15 PM
So aside from making a semi ar run smoother, is there any other benefit(s)? I am curious on this now as I am building mine up and may use this...

CIV Tactical
04-18-2012, 10:32 PM
So aside from making a semi ar run smoother, is there any other benefit(s)? I am curious on this now as I am building mine up and may use this...
cycling, reliability, functioning and life of the BCG all improve

h0use
04-18-2012, 10:41 PM
your good to go

Matt1989
04-18-2012, 10:53 PM
cycling, reliability, functioning and life of the BCG all improve

So the $150 is money well spent. Looks like I'll go that route. Thanks. :)

monk
04-18-2012, 11:01 PM
An example of a firearm
meeting this section of the definition is a semiautomatic AR15 rifle possessed with an M16 bolt carrier,
hammer, trigger, disconnector and selector. If the semiautomatic AR15 is assembled with the described
M16 parts and the rifle is capable of fully automatic fire, the weapon possessed in conjunction with the
M16 parts, whether assembled or not, is a machinegun as defined.

You forgot to highlight the pieces after BCG...

In other words, only an M16 BCG does not a machinegun make. It must be possession of multiple parts.

ETA: ATF letter regarding M16 BCGs. http://www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/ATF%20M16%20Letter.pdf

ETA x2: The main crux is, can the firearm fire in an automatic configuration. If it can't then as far as I can tell you're G2G.

jasonnorcal
04-18-2012, 11:41 PM
So aside from making a semi ar run smoother, is there any other benefit(s)? I am curious on this now as I am building mine up and may use this...

So that when you go visit that friend in a free state you can slap your upper on his m16 lower and go to town :43:

the86d
04-19-2012, 6:01 AM
Visit a friend nothin'...

When I MOVE to a free state... eventually. :)