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View Full Version : I want a .22LR dedicated, pistol...is that legal?


951temec
04-18-2012, 2:27 AM
Okay so from what i understand.

Pistol Lower (cannot buy new from rifle-gear or any other store, need to PPT)
Single shot (safe hand guns roster)
Bullet Button (AW ban)
Sled Magazine (AW ban)
6" + barrel no thread (can i cut down a rifle barrel?) *commercial .22lr pistol uppers all have threaded barels*

is it even possible to do in the state of California?

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk62/pacrimguru/AR-15%20Pistol/0b3957a7.jpg

Chaos47
04-18-2012, 2:36 AM
I'm a little tired so I might be wrong but I actually think this is doable a lot easier if you build it from a stripped lower...

Stripped lowers that have not been built into a rifle ever can be used to make pistols.
Since you would be buying the lower it would be listed as other.
No single shot exemption in this case
You can buy the upper online and have it shipped to you

You will need a magazine lock because the magazine is located outside of the pistol grip

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

951temec
04-18-2012, 2:39 AM
When i bought my stripped lower, one of the boxes had RIFLE written in it. (i have an ar-15 type rifle in 5.56)

What do i say when i purchase one of these lowers that i hope to dedicate as a pistol?

will i have to register the pistol with my city police department? Will the police officers know the laws regarding AR pistols?

Chaos47
04-18-2012, 2:51 AM
Even if it was marked rifle if it has never been built as one it can still be made a pistol.

It does not need to say pistol on the receiver either.
I'm sure others will come along and disagree so please read the following links

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=532590&highlight=pistol+lower
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2011-4.pdf

Edit more links:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=400222
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=324117

It is not unheard of that the FFL makes a mistake and writes up stripped lowers as rifles. I had 2 transferred to me as "Longguns"

No you will not register it with the police.
You might have to volreg it but I am not sure about that.

951temec
04-18-2012, 4:34 AM
Yeah I think I'll talk to an ffl on that.

Also the commercial ar pistol uppers are illegal for use here..threaded barrells

rromeo
04-18-2012, 4:43 AM
Threaded barrels are illegal for detachable magazine pistols. AR pistols, and all pistols with magazines outside of the grip must be non-detachable, therefore the threaded barrel is a non issue.

Quiet
04-18-2012, 5:19 AM
It is not unheard of that the FFL makes a mistake and writes up stripped lowers as rifles. I had 2 transferred to me as "Longguns"


ATF 4473 = handgun, long gun or other
CA DROS = handgun or long gun

In CA...
A stripped reciever is 4473'd as other and DROS'd as long gun.
It's DROS'd as a long gun, because there are no recievers on the approved list so it can not be a handgun (there are exemptions to this, one being PPT & another being LEO sale).

Currently, if you build a reciever that was 4473'd as a other and DROS'd as a long gun into a handgun, you may run afoul CA's SBR laws. Therefore, it is not recommend you build a handgun from a reciever that was DROS'd as a long gun. Unless you have $$$$$ on hand to defend a SBR charge.

Quiet
04-18-2012, 5:27 AM
Also the commercial ar pistol uppers are illegal for use here..threaded barrells
Incorrect.

Threaded barrels are illegal for detachable magazine pistols. AR pistols, and all pistols with magazines outside of the grip must be non-detachable, therefore the threaded barrel is a non issue.
:iagree:


Threaded barrels are only a restricted feature on semiauto pistols that use detachable magazines.
Since, AR pistols must operate using a fixed magazine, it can legally have a threaded barrel.


Summary on threaded barrels + handguns:
Threaded barrel + semi-auto pistol with detachable magazine = illegal
Threaded barrel + semi-auto pistol with fixed magazine = legal
Threaded barrel + bolt-action pistol = legal
Threaded barrel + lever-action pistol = legal
Threaded barrel + pump-action pistol = legal
Threaded barrel + single shot pistol = legal
Threaded barrel + revolver = legal

951temec
04-18-2012, 7:46 AM
So my only option is to happen across a used ar pistol then convert it to a .22lr? Then pray police officers understand these crazy and seemingly randomy drafted laws?

I can't do the 80% lower thing right now.

uxo2
04-18-2012, 8:59 AM
I know you said 80% is not possible now..
But that is an option you should try make happen ....

winnre
04-18-2012, 9:03 AM
.22LR is not a center fire so it ought to not need a bullet button...

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2012, 9:04 AM
EBR Works' upper buy back program might just be the ticket for you.

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2012, 9:05 AM
.22LR is not a center fire so it ought to not need a bullet button...

:facepalm:

We are talking about handguns here. There is no rimfire exemption for handguns in CA's AW laws.

winnre
04-18-2012, 9:15 AM
:facepalm:

We are talking about handguns here. There is no rimfire exemption for handguns in CA's AW laws.

That sucks!

emsalex
04-18-2012, 9:27 AM
.22LR is not a center fire so it ought to not need a bullet button...

In a rifle yes , but I believe in pistol form with a magazine outside the grip it needs a mag lock, I know building a ruger charger requires one.


Oops someone beat me to it.

monkeylice
04-18-2012, 10:30 AM
If a brand new AR lower receiver is marked "MULTI CAL", that doesn't NECESSARILY mean it can be used to make a .22 pistol? Just a .22 rifle? Am I interpreting this correctly?

CSACANNONEER
04-18-2012, 10:39 AM
If an AR lower receiver is marked "MULTI CAL", that doesn't NECESSARILY mean it can be used to make a .22 pistol? Just a .22 rifle? Am I interpreting this correctly?

Markings on a lower do not have ANY legal meaning. "Multi cal" means the same thing as "who cares" or "20,000 mega watt plasma blaster". I'll simplify it for you. If your lower has been DROSed as a handgun and has NEVER been a rifle, you can make any legal handgun you want from it. If your virgin lower was DROSed as a rifle, play it safe and only make a long gun from it. However, it would be 100% legal to take a virgin stripped lower which was DROSed as a rifle to another state and make it into a handgun. This would not even be questionable. It would be 100% legal to do so. Now, if you bring it back into Ca, would CA DOJ have issues with it? I don't know. Do you want to be the test case? Do you have years of time and 100s of 1000s of dollars to spend?

monkeylice
04-18-2012, 10:51 AM
Markings on a lower do not have ANY legal meaning. "Multi cal" means the same thing as "who cares" or "20,000 mega watt plasma blaster". I'll simplify it for you. If your lower has been DROSed as a handgun and has NEVER been a rifle, you can make any legal handgun you want from it. If your virgin lower was DROSed as a rifle, play it safe and only make a long gun from it. However, it would be 100% legal to take a virgin stripped lower which was DROSed as a rifle to another state and make it into a handgun. This would not even be questionable. It would be 100% legal to do so. Now, if you bring it back into Ca, would CA DOJ have issues with it? I don't know. Do you want to be the test case? Do you have years of time and 100s of 1000s of dollars to spend?

I sure don't. Thanks for this. I know the lower wasn't DROSed as a handgun, so I'm not even going to try. I'll do an 80% if I want to make an AR pistol in the future.

CHS
04-18-2012, 11:46 AM
Markings on a lower do not have ANY legal meaning. "Multi cal" means the same thing as "who cares" or "20,000 mega watt plasma blaster". I'll simplify it for you. If your lower has been DROSed as a handgun and has NEVER been a rifle, you can make any legal handgun you want from it. If your virgin lower was DROSed as a rifle, play it safe and only make a long gun from it. However, it would be 100% legal to take a virgin stripped lower which was DROSed as a rifle to another state and make it into a handgun. This would not even be questionable. It would be 100% legal to do so. Now, if you bring it back into Ca, would CA DOJ have issues with it? I don't know. Do you want to be the test case? Do you have years of time and 100s of 1000s of dollars to spend?

There's no such thing as DROS in other states, so it would be impossible to DROS a rifle anywhere but California :)

Also, California DROS'es as "handgun" or "long gun". "Long gun" DROS's are ordered destroyed by the state within 30 days of submission according to state law.

So if you bought a stripped lower receiver, it was marked properly on the 4473 (other firearm, type: receiver/frame) and was DROS'ed as a long gun, after 30 days the state no longer has ANY proof that it was anything other than a receiver, which the federal paperwork will back up.

951temec
04-18-2012, 1:25 PM
Yeah I no longer have accsess to a cnc and if I did it would have just been a low end haas 3 axis not cabable of a pro job.

I'll think ill wait until I move to vegas where a $200 tax stamp buys you a license to suppressors and nfa items!

CHS
04-18-2012, 1:48 PM
Yeah I no longer have accsess to a cnc and if I did it would have just been a low end haas 3 axis not cabable of a pro job.


CNC? Dude, people do 80%'ers on their freaking harbor freight DRILL PRESSES.

AR22
04-18-2012, 1:48 PM
This is all confusing but theres your answer..Move to a FREE state and prosper..I lived in Ca some 20 odd years ago and I do not remember them being so wacked on this stuff back then...

Chaos47
04-18-2012, 2:41 PM
I'll think ill wait until I move to vegas where a $200 tax stamp buys you a license to suppressors and nfa items!

Not exactly... it doesn't buy you a licence.
It is a tax stamp per item.
NFA's are not cheap either.