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View Full Version : Has anyone seen a similar Stock/grip for AR-15?


Exdc
04-17-2012, 6:17 PM
I'm looking for a stock similar to any of the ones in the pictures. However, before I waste any more time:


Would these count as a pistol grip, (any or all of them? How high can I go up before it counts as a pistol grip?)

If they are NOT considered a pistol grip, is there any other problems WITH THE STOCK that would prevent it from fitting under the "featureless" category? If not, there's no point in going any further.


Which one looks best? See the poll.
Option A:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/amlord1/My%20AR15/AR15-v4.jpg
Option B:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/amlord1/My%20AR15/AR15-v3.jpg
Option C:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/amlord1/My%20AR15/AR15-v2.jpg
Option D:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/amlord1/My%20AR15/AR15-v7.jpg
Option E:
http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u94/amlord1/My%20AR15/AR15-v7.jpg


Any other comments?

If you've seen something like this FOR THE AR-15 platform, please share. It's only useful if it would qualify a gun to be featureless (assuming that it has no other evil features).

Thanks for the input.

CHS
04-17-2012, 6:58 PM
I like "A", and yes it would eliminate the pistol grip for the purposes of building a featureless rifle.

And no, I've never seen anything like this for the AR15 platform.

sharxbyte
04-17-2012, 7:06 PM
Fixing, please wait

Fate
04-17-2012, 7:09 PM
The closest I've seen was a filled in Bell and Howell "thumbhole" stock. We called it the Oar around here circa 2006.

As long as you can't activate the trigger while you have your thumb wrapped around the back of the grip, you're ok. All three look ok to me, but B and C are probably furthest from the edge.

Fate
04-17-2012, 7:11 PM
Of yours, A is the best.


I like mine better bro ;)

If I remember correctly, as long as the webbing of the thumb/index finger is below the line of the exposed trigger,you're good features wise.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/mugglle/AR15-alexv2.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/mugglle/AR15-alexv1.jpg

You got it backwards. Webbing must be ABOVE line of exposed trigger. Your second one is also a thumbhole stock and illegal.

sharxbyte
04-17-2012, 7:13 PM
You got it backwards. Webbing must be ABOVE line of exposed trigger. Your second one is also a thumbhole stock and illegal.

my bad, will fix ;) What would happen, if say the thumb was in an "enclosed" hole?

760knox
04-17-2012, 7:20 PM
None, looks pretty Fugly to me...but if that's how you wanna roll. I would rather get the hammerhead from Exile Machine

Exdc
04-17-2012, 7:24 PM
I just want something simple, along the lines of the A2, and I want to be able to hold it as CLOSE to a regular pistol grip as possible, while still staying legal. Any other suggestions/modifications are welcome. Also, if you know anyone who would be willing to produce a prototype of the final "draft", please PM me.

sharxbyte
04-17-2012, 7:41 PM
Fate, would this comply? The thumb would be appropriately positioned (so that the webbing could not be below the exposed portion of trigger) and the thumb would not go through the stock, because the stock would be molded so that the thumb would be in an enclosed area. I was playing with the ergo's on my receiver, and it wouldn't be too uncomfortable... Might be a plausible loop-hole (or lack there of)

it would just be a pain to remove the upper without first removing the stock (breakdown pin blocked) and you would still have to reach around for the safety...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/mugglle/AR15-alexv3.jpg

Exdc
04-17-2012, 7:52 PM
New options added; not sure if poll editing is possible.

sharxbyte
04-17-2012, 7:56 PM
I like "E"

MrPlink
04-17-2012, 8:06 PM
Eh,Just go solar and be done with it. I see no ad advantage integrating with the stock.

Exdc
04-17-2012, 8:09 PM
Go "solar"? Advantage is simple A2 like platform, and the lack of a bullet butten. I find it more aesthetically pleasing, and potentially more stable than the MMG or the grip that blocks your thumb. I also prefer it to the hammerhead grip, which looks kind of awkward IMO. To each their own though.

*EDIT* Solar... Yeah that's the "grip" I was talking about. v---And yeah, the secondary idea, is that this looks like it's supposed to be there.---v

sharxbyte
04-17-2012, 8:10 PM
It looks more flush and like it's supposed to be there, as opposed to solar, which tends to look like someone said "Oh, I guess I should put a fin on the back of my pistol grip"

It's mainly aesthetics, but has potential for improved ergonomics.

Fate
04-17-2012, 9:18 PM
Fate, would this comply? The thumb would be appropriately positioned (so that the webbing could not be below the exposed portion of trigger) and the thumb would not go through the stock, because the stock would be molded so that the thumb would be in an enclosed area. I was playing with the ergo's on my receiver, and it wouldn't be too uncomfortable... Might be a plausible loop-hole (or lack there of)

it would just be a pain to remove the upper without first removing the stock (breakdown pin blocked) and you would still have to reach around for the safety...

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb197/mugglle/AR15-alexv3.jpg
Sorry, that too won't fly. CA definition of thumbhole stock includes a stock that you can stick your thumb into, not just thru.

See the "Regulations for Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Magazines - Final Statement of Reasons" Document:
http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pdfs/firearms/regs/fsor.pdf
978.20(e) - Thumbhole Stock
The proposed definition originally noticed to the public defined a thumbhole stock as “any stock with any opening that enables the firearm to be grasped, controlled and fired with one hand.”

Comments received during the initial comment period (December 31, 1999 through February 28, 2000) stated that the term “any stock with any opening” is overly broad and ambiguous. The Department agrees that any opening can include openings other than thumbholes. As a result, the Department changed “any stock with any opening” to “a stock with a hole.” Significant public input received during the initial comment period also addressed the subjectivity of the phrase “fired with one hand.” It appears from the comments that it could be an arbitrary standard that requires consideration of physical characteristics such as strength and dexterity that vary from person to person. The Department accordingly determined its use would add confusion rather than clarity to the definition. The definition was revised to specify the physical characteristic of a thumbhole stock as “a stock with a hole that allows the thumb of the trigger hand to penetrate the
stock,” and was noticed during the first 15-day comment period (May 10 through May 30, 2000).

The comments received during this 15-day notice raised additional challenges regarding the definition of the term “penetrate.” In an effort to further clarify the definition, the Department added the phrase “into or through” to the phrase “penetrate the stock.” The final revised definition: “thumbhole stock means a stock with a hole that allows the thumb of the trigger hand to penetrate into or through the stock” was noticed during the second 15-day comment period (July 12 through July 31, 2000). Although additional comments were received, none resulted in substantial revision to the definition. However, the Department made a non-substantial revision by adding “while firing” to make it explicit in the definition that the placement of the thumbhole must allow the thumb of the trigger hand to penetrate into or through the stock while firing.

Chaos47
04-17-2012, 9:27 PM
If the stock and grip are in one piece I would think it would be hard to install the detents and springs that are held in by each of those parts.

Sure there are set screw mods to make those springs internally captured.

But like Plink said just go with a solar tactical grip wrap unless you really want to make a project out of it...

MrPlink
04-17-2012, 9:31 PM
It looks more flush and like it's supposed to be there, as opposed to solar, which tends to look like someone said "Oh, I guess I should put a fin on the back of my pistol grip"

It's mainly aesthetics, but has potential for improved ergonomics.

Im not saying aesthetics dont matter at all, but when it comes to a featureless gun? Come on. Featureless in the first place is an exercise of function over form.

In addition, a solar fin grip (or similar, they are really easy to make) is very very easy to remove for those of us that shoot out of state.

Need I mention cost? Obviously this "product" is simpley an idea right now, but it is beyond reasonable to assume that it would be much more expensive than any of the following:
-monsterman grip
-solar kydex
-exile machine hammerhead

As you are pretty much required to purchase a full stock as well.

This brings me to my next point, not everybody wants an A2 (or similar) length or style stock. By starting with a carbine style stock attachment one can decide ahead of them their preferred position and lock it into place in order to comply with the AWB. In otherwords, there is versatility to be had with the more simple "drop in" solutions.


This design also may have the potential for fitment issues, being that it is a single piece that will have to mount into two different places. If tolerances are kept tight on the product itself and it is only used on standard "in-spec" lowers, than fine. Otherwise...

So you lose some of the market to price, you lose more to lack of versatility, what market are you left with? I would wager a slim one by comparison, but I acquiesce perhaps a market nevertheless.

Dont take it personally, this is just how I view it. Im not here to ish on anybodys dreams. Matter of fact, it is a free market, the products and choices out there the better for everyone, right?

Exdc
04-17-2012, 10:04 PM
Thanks for that VERY well thought out feedback, MrPlink. I really appreciate it. The whole Reason I posted the idea, is for feedback. I'm interested in looking at anything that would simply make my rifle featureless, without aesthetically destroying it. Guns are meant to be functional, but that doesn't mean they have to be fugly. (Thank you to the people who shared their thoughts on the aesthetics of the design). I take criticism pretty well, as long as it's constructive, so I thank you all for being reasonable.

If I understand you correctly, I can make something of a "fin" or similar device that (when attached) would block my trigger finger from being able to activate the trigger while my thumb is around/through/inserted into the stock, and that will make my gun featureless, as long as the pistol grip was the only evil feature?

sharxbyte
04-17-2012, 10:06 PM
Sorry, that too won't fly. CA definition of thumbhole stock includes a stock that you can stick your thumb into, not just thru.



This makes me temporarily and mildly sad :(

Okay, I'm better now... Guess I'll just live with a BB for now ;)

Chaos47
04-17-2012, 10:40 PM
If I understand you correctly, I can make something of a "fin" or similar device that (when attached) would block my trigger finger from being able to activate the trigger while my thumb is around/through/inserted into the stock, and that will make my gun featureless, as long as the pistol grip was the only evil feature?

No, you are reading it wrong. You can not have any evil features period. The only benefit you retain on a featureless is the ability to release magazines.

See this post above:

Sorry, that too won't fly. CA definition of thumbhole stock includes a stock that you can stick your thumb into, not just thru.

See the "Regulations for Assault Weapons and Large Capacity Magazines - Final Statement of Reasons" Document:

Exdc
04-17-2012, 10:47 PM
I think you misunderstood me. The fin basically makes a pistol grip, not a pistol grip... So, assuming that there were previously no additional evil features, the gun would be made featureless with the addition of the fin. I understand that you can't have any features on a featureless gun...

Fate
04-18-2012, 9:22 AM
You can create a fin of your own on an existing pistol grip and be legal. As long as it can't be snapped off/removed by hand you're good to go. I've been running finned grips since 2006 of one form or another. My current one is my favorite homebuild. 12 gauge steel set into slot on rear of pistol grip. It's offset to left and bolted to left side of grip. Internally, bolts go thru steel and attach to plastic rimmed locknuts. A hemostat is required to get to the nuts, so I don't need to worry that the fin might disappear during LEO contact (more of a concern back in 2006 than today). Final product is sprayed with truck bed liner to make it pretty.

http://i48.tinypic.com/nb590.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/iwki2a.jpg

Exdc
04-18-2012, 10:14 AM
Damn. THAT is a sexy fin. THAT is exactly what I want.

Also, what stock is that? it doesn't look like most of the A2 stocks I've seen for sale. I like it.

CHS
04-18-2012, 10:57 AM
Damn. THAT is a sexy fin. THAT is exactly what I want.

Also, what stock is that? it doesn't look like most of the A2 stocks I've seen for sale. I like it.

That's the Sully stock.

zfields
04-18-2012, 11:11 AM
You can create a fin of your own on an existing pistol grip and be legal. As long as it can't be snapped off/removed by hand you're good to go. I've been running finned grips since 2006 of one form or another. My current one is my favorite homebuild. 12 gauge steel set into slot on rear of pistol grip. It's offset to left and bolted to left side of grip. Internally, bolts go thru steel and attach to plastic rimmed locknuts. A hemostat is required to get to the nuts, so I don't need to worry that the fin might disappear during LEO contact (more of a concern back in 2006 than today). Final product is sprayed with truck bed liner to make it pretty.

http://i48.tinypic.com/nb590.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/iwki2a.jpg

Very nice build.

Prc329
04-18-2012, 11:36 AM
There was a guy a few years back that made a nice custom grip for the PRS. I had one. I think I still have pics of it.

Prc329
04-18-2012, 11:49 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/IMG_0722.jpg

And just because here is a pic of one of the original monsterman grips. I think im gonna go featurless again. Gotta figure out how to pin my CTR.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/naytwan/IMG_2487.jpg

Exdc
04-18-2012, 12:15 PM
I love the PRS, and that grip for it is pretty nice. Out of my price range right now; thus, why I want to stick to an A2. Simple and effective.

Prc329
04-18-2012, 12:22 PM
I love the PRS, and that grip for it is pretty nice. Out of my price range right now; thus, why I want to stick to an A2. Simple and effective.

Why not just use a monsterman grip?

http://www.monstermangrip.com/Customer_Photos.php

RugerNo1
04-18-2012, 12:28 PM
I would like Option D or E (without the finger grooves) with some sort of thumb shelf for the firing hand.

Exdc
04-18-2012, 12:34 PM
I don't really like the MMG. Awkward angle. Maybe for a Saiga (Next firearm purchase), but for an AR? I don't like the look or feel. I think I'll work on a custom "fin"... I might custom fabricate from ABS or aluminum.

Fate
04-18-2012, 1:16 PM
I don't really like the MMG. Awkward angle. Maybe for a Saiga (Next firearm purchase), but for an AR? I don't like the look or feel. I think I'll work on a custom "fin"... I might custom fabricate from ABS or aluminum.I had one of the early MonsterMan grips and while it was ok, I prefer the fin for it's ability to hold the rifle one handed while also pulling into the shoulder much better.

Here's a pic of one of my "early" fin wraps (all years prior to SolarTactical's kydex versions). This one had a thin piece of steel epoxied into the grip, then overwrapped with semi-rubbery plastic cut from the lid of a plastic storage bin. Skateboard tape added some grip.

http://hotimg23.fotki.com/a/76_169/223_24/M16A1_newgripDETAIL151.jpg

The next ones I make will use thick sheet aluminum instead of the 12 gauge steel. Soooo much easier to cut.

Some other subtle details about my steel fin shown a couple posts above - the CAA pistol grip was chosen for 2 reasons: the finger grooves help you hold rifle one handed, and the palm swell gives the heel of your hand something to push against while holding it one handed as well. I have since stippled that heel area with a woodburning tool. The other detail that helps one handed operation, is the winter trigger guard. Combined with the CAA grip, it gives some more support to spread the weight of the rifle out. One handed mag changes are a snap with my setup.

Exdc
04-18-2012, 1:21 PM
What do you use to cut the sheet aluminum?

Fate
04-18-2012, 4:18 PM
What do you use to cut the sheet aluminum?

Mr. Dremel does all my custom work.

Exdc
04-18-2012, 6:42 PM
That's easy (: I didn't know dremel did well on aluminum :D Do you use a particular bit?

Capybara
04-18-2012, 6:47 PM
Best looking featureless rifle I have ever seen. Very nice, you should be selling this setup.

You can create a fin of your own on an existing pistol grip and be legal. As long as it can't be snapped off/removed by hand you're good to go. I've been running finned grips since 2006 of one form or another. My current one is my favorite homebuild. 12 gauge steel set into slot on rear of pistol grip. It's offset to left and bolted to left side of grip. Internally, bolts go thru steel and attach to plastic rimmed locknuts. A hemostat is required to get to the nuts, so I don't need to worry that the fin might disappear during LEO contact (more of a concern back in 2006 than today). Final product is sprayed with truck bed liner to make it pretty.

http://i48.tinypic.com/nb590.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/iwki2a.jpg