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View Full Version : San Francisco City College student goes "postal"


Steyr_223
04-24-2007, 11:14 AM
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/24/BAGP4PEG0G5.DTL



City College student taken into custody after threatening class
Marisa Lagos, Chronicle Staff Writer

Tuesday, April 24, 2007

(04-24) 10:32 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- A San Francisco City College student was taken into custody today after he allegedly started yelling that he was going to kill everyone in his physics class, police said.

The student, described as a large man dressed in camouflage, had "some sort of interaction with the other students in the class, then started yelling he was going to kill everybody," said Carl S. Koehler, chief of the Community College District Police Department.

The suspect was in a physics class on the top floor of the Science Building, and there were about 30 to 35 students present during the 9 a.m. incident, Koehler said. No one was injured, he added.

Koehler said school police -- who do not carry firearms -- immediately called San Francisco Police, who arrived in less than seven minutes.

AJAX22
04-24-2007, 11:41 AM
I love how they put a spin it. 'The police, when called, immidiatly called someone else who showed up a little while later, good thing he didn't have a weapon.'

Jack_Bauer
04-24-2007, 11:56 AM
Koehler said school police -- who do not carry firearms -- immediately called San Francisco Police, who arrived in less than seven minutes.

911 = government sponsored dial-a-prayer

Seven minutes is a long time for someone to be shooting up a classroom.

MrTuffPaws
04-24-2007, 12:54 PM
I used to be a physics major but switched to comp eng after having urges to shoot everyone in my classes.

nevjohn
04-24-2007, 1:02 PM
Koehler said school police -- who do not carry firearms -- immediately called San Francisco Police, who arrived in less than seven minutes.

AKA= Rent a Cop....... Lotta good Campus Police are without FIREARMS!! Hey School Police........ remember last Monday in VA???

383green
04-24-2007, 1:10 PM
I used to be a physics major but switched to comp eng after having urges to shoot everyone in my classes.

Electrical engineering has that effect on people, too. :eek:

I'm glad nobody was hurt, and I hope that the nut-job will get the treatment and/or punishment that he needs.

WolfMansDad
04-24-2007, 1:13 PM
C'mon guys. Give 'em a break. How often to campus police really NEED firearms?

OK, they would have been useful last week, but the vast majority of the time they are not dealing with a hard-core criminal element. Let's keep these threats in perspective.

383green
04-24-2007, 1:20 PM
C'mon guys. Give 'em a break. How often to campus police really NEED firearms?

OK, they would have been useful last week, but the vast majority of the time they are not dealing with a hard-core criminal element. Let's keep these threats in perspective.

How often does anybody really NEED firearms? Not too often, thankfully. Without getting into a debate about whether the campus rent-a-cops should carry weapons or not, I would at least say that the first-responders to a scene where a belligerent person is making death threats should be prepared to subdue that person. An un-armed security guard should be able to handle most anti-social situations that might be encountered on a college campus, but if the campus cops are not armed on a particular campus, then I'd suggest that they're not the right people to call in a case like this.

This is just my own ill-informed and half-thought opinion. I encourage further discussion.

The SoCal Gunner
04-24-2007, 1:25 PM
Of the community colleges and universities I've been to, campus police have firearms. Guess SF is safer.

desertram800
04-24-2007, 1:27 PM
C'mon guys. Give 'em a break. How often to campus police really NEED firearms?

OK, they would have been useful last week, but the vast majority of the time they are not dealing with a hard-core criminal element. Let's keep these threats in perspective.


It doesn't matter, how many normal police don't ever have to use their firearms? They should be prepared to handle situations that probably will never happen. It's better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. Just because it's a bunch of college kids doesn't mean that there aren't crazies in the crowd. Think about it, VA Tech had 26,000 people on campus. That's a good sized town population. And every town has it's bad apples. You know what's worse than no police/security? Having poorly trained, fat, doughnut eating, whistle blowing, slobby rent-a-cops. They are not only a bad image, but when people see that, they know that they can get away with things. Personnaly, I think even the dang mall rent-a-cops should be properly trained and pack heat. When a crisis occurs, they should be able to respond, people's lives are at stake.

Oh yeah, I stress the "properly trained" part again. Not to say that they need to complete the entire POST cert, but at least extensive firearms training and use of deadly force training, shoot no-shoot training and so on. I know it'll never ever happen for money reasons, but one can always wish.

adamsreeftank
04-24-2007, 1:31 PM
I've heard some of the UC police actually have SWAT units. Good thing SF is the city of LOVE.

383green
04-24-2007, 1:33 PM
Of the community colleges and universities I've been to, campus police have firearms. Guess SF is safer.

I've been to three universities:

1) Caltech (I flunked out :o): Security guards were not armed with either weapons or wits. Their basic function was to check any misbehaving kids for student ID, and then either scold them or call the cops depending on whether they have it or not. Freshmen were a bit intimidated by them until they learned that they could get away with just about anything non-destructive as long as they're carrying ID. Caltech is a very unusual environment, though, and what works there probably wouldn't work too well in normal society. If you took one entire year of interesting goings-on at Caltech and compressed it down to a 90-minute summary, you'd have the movie Real Genius.

2) UNLV: I don't recall whether the campus cops were armed, or even if there were specific campus cops. I was just doing time there at my home-town college to get my GPA back up so I could get into a real engineering program.

3) UCI: Cops were sworn officers packing guns, as I recall.

desertram800
04-24-2007, 1:51 PM
So UCI is doing it right! I went up to Berkley to see my cousing graduate, and if there is a school that needs armed guards, that's it! The only other place with as many weirdos as that place I've seen is Venice Beach!

383green
04-24-2007, 2:16 PM
The point about many schools having populations the size of small towns is insightful. When you get that many people together in one place, plain old statistics say that you'll have to deal with all of the typical social issues that you would in any town. That includes the need to enforce order when somebody becomes angry, belligerent, crazy, etc. That happens with measurable frequency in any population, and colleges can be particularly stressful.

I'd say that the need for people to be able to protect themselves from violence is just as valid on a college campus as it is anywhere else. Now, a lot of the population on a campus is young and/or immature, so not everybody ought to be packing heat there, but enforcing disarmament of the entire population (well, the law-abiding portion of it, anyway) seems like asking for trouble to me.

If the campus cops are not prepared with the skill, training and equipment needed to defuse violent situations, then I'd say that they're not the right people to call when a situation like this one erupts and help is needed to bring it back under control.

The tricky part is finding a solution that allows a rapid response to a situation like the VA shooting in order to minimize the number of casualties, while also avoiding the potential of abuse of power like the UCLA gang-tasering incident. I think that a good balance could be some combination of a well-prepared police force, plus a general populace where enough people are armed, suitably responsible to bear those arms, and mentally prepared to take reasonable action to protect themselves and the people around them when (not if) somebody goes bonkers around them. Just relying on a strong police force opens the door to abuse and they can't be where they're most needed very quickly anyway, while just relying on an armed populace with no organized police force opens the door to vigilantism.

In any case, if it is decided that the local security force should be un-armed for whatever reason, then they should not be counted on to do any more than patrol around and call the police if necessary. Counting on an un-armed security force to be first-responders in a violent situation makes no more sense than calling a plumber to put out a fire.

thedrickel
04-24-2007, 2:34 PM
Every UC has UCPD, which is a bone fide PD. They carry guns and can arrest your ***. That doesn't mean they know jack **** about police work tho.

anotherone
04-24-2007, 4:06 PM
Despite what everyone else is saying I'm going to have to say this is wonderful. Someone made terrorist threats and is in jail for it. It's time we stopped ignoring the mentally ill and start locking them up where they can't hurt people.

code33
04-24-2007, 4:12 PM
Guess you haven't seen the area around CCSF.


C'mon guys. Give 'em a break. How often to campus police really NEED firearms?

OK, they would have been useful last week, but the vast majority of the time they are not dealing with a hard-core criminal element. Let's keep these threats in perspective.

Fjold
04-24-2007, 5:05 PM
Despite what everyone else is saying I'm going to have to say this is wonderful. Someone made terrorist threats and is in jail for it. It's time we stopped ignoring the mentally ill and start locking them up where they can't hurt people.

If you locked up all the whack jobs in San Francisco, there would be almost no one left in the city.

fairfaxjim
04-24-2007, 5:27 PM
If you locked up all the whack jobs in San Francisco, there would be almost no one left in the city.

The nuts are running the asylum there anyway. Might just be time to close the bridges and blockade 101, 280 and Hwy 1 on the south end. Problem solved, now I can get back to work.

OBTW - I see one of head wack jobs on the board of supes wants to tell the Blue Angels how to fly an airshow now. Where do these know it all's with 500lb. testicles come from??

WokMaster1
04-24-2007, 6:18 PM
Jim, come on, you've got to be fair, Marin has its share of whack jobs, too. It's too late, they had moved to your neck of the woods.:D

The nuts are running the asylum there anyway. Might just be time to close the bridges and blockade 101, 280 and Hwy 1 on the south end. Problem solved, now I can get back to work.

OBTW - I see one of head wack jobs on the board of supes wants to tell the Blue Angels how to fly an airshow now. Where do these know it all's with 500lb. testicles come from??

Bishop
04-24-2007, 6:33 PM
Would be interesting if this guy was making a comment about the VT shooting and mentioned something about the lack of security there, and jokingly or accidentally commented that he could do the same thing just as easily.

One freak-out session later-- he's in jail.

I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'... :rolleyes:

jumbopanda
04-24-2007, 7:06 PM
Gun Free Zone! Gun Free Zone! :D :D

M. Sage
04-24-2007, 7:23 PM
Seven minutes? That's an AWFUL long time. Hopefully the other students subdued him for the wait...

Love how they have to say he was wearing camoflage... :rolleyes:

CalNRA
04-24-2007, 7:23 PM
If you locked up all the whack jobs in San Francisco, there would be almost no one left in the city Hall.

fixed it for ya ;)

ldivinag
04-24-2007, 8:30 PM
I've heard some of the UC police actually have SWAT units. Good thing SF is the city of LOVE.

only Uc BEZERKLEY has both a SWAT team AND a bomb squad...

i dont know about SFCC, since that is a junior college, all of CSU and UC police are "normal" statewide LE...

ask them about being rent-a-cops as they haul your butt to jail... lol...

Fjold
04-24-2007, 8:36 PM
only Uc BEZERKLEY has both a SWAT team AND a bomb squad...


To remove bombs or plant them?

dwtt
04-24-2007, 9:34 PM
I went to Berkeley and remember an article in the Daily Cal about how the UC police was getting a big head and thinking they needed a SWAT team. The Berkeley police are police officers and act like police. UC police are oficially police, but they act like glorified security guards.

fairfaxjim
04-24-2007, 11:08 PM
Jim, come on, you've got to be fair, Marin has its share of whack jobs, too. It's too late, they had moved to your neck of the woods.:D

I'm have to admit, you are right about that!

ivanimal
04-24-2007, 11:33 PM
I grew up 6 blocks from CCSF and went to high school across the street. I for one am glad the campus cops dont carry. The were the worst red hots around when I was growing up. They would chase us just for walking throught the campus. It was a perfect shortcut to Balboa Park and BART. Mostly they were students in their criminal justice classes. When I got older one of my friends decked one for grabbing his girlfriend arm when she called him a name. She was in the wrong but he shouldn't have grabbed her. The fight went out of him pretty quick when he realized we did not respect or fear him. He drove away and we ran away.

I later went to CCSF for 2 years. Not a bad school at all. My mom still lives in the same house I grew up in.

Rogue187
04-25-2007, 8:56 AM
C'mon guys. Give 'em a break. How often to campus police really NEED firearms?

OK, they would have been useful last week, but the vast majority of the time they are not dealing with a hard-core criminal element. Let's keep these threats in perspective.

I'm sorry to say that is one of the most asnine statements I've heard..
"How often do campus police need firearms?"
They may not need them daily but as many people have said in the past.." It's better to have and not need it, than to need it and not have it"

Do you think that the criminal element doesn't know about most school zones being gun free zones?
Target rich enviroment.

Do you carry car insurance on your cars? why...your not geting into accident on a daily basis.

Criminals know that they can rob students as they do carry laptops and Ipods and sometimes cash.

A police officer should have a firearm with them at all times in the event of an emergency..you can't run off and call someone like the campus police did.
You may have to take action to protect students immediately..not when the "real" police arrive.
The campus police here are hogtied by the lame adminstration who believe that bad things do not happen in this city..

code33
04-25-2007, 9:06 AM
UC Hastings in the 'loin do not have armed officers. They did have firearms years ago...

jarios
04-25-2007, 7:38 PM
Sad thing is, the VA Tech killer only took 9 minutes to do his awful deed.

http://www.nbc12.com/news/state/7191106.html

Thank god the suspect in this incident wasn't armed. The campus PD should look into arming themselves. In reality, an unarmed police officer can be nothing more than just another target for a psycho with a weapon.

During my Junior year at Hueneme High School, a lunatic armed with a handgun came onto campus and took a girl hostage. I'm sure that if it wasn't for the armed campus policeman, Officer Tinocco, who held the suspect at bay while everyone retreated and barricaded themselves into classrooms. It took the SWAT team about 30 min to arrive and snipe the guy, even though they were around the area training. Things could've ended in a much bigger tragedy. Turns out the guy was depressed and wanted to commit suicide by cop. Who knows what could've happened if an armed person hadn't cornered the psycho and allowed potential victims to jump over the fence or run for cover. Things happened so fast. I didn't have a chance to run out of campus and ended up in the school's main office with other students and school administrators huddled on the ground hoping it wasn't our day to meet our maker.

After this whole incident, the school replaced its chain link fences for tall, black iron bars. They also stopped allowing seniors to go off campus for lunch. I would feel more secure if teachers were allowed to carry concealed on campus. As an aide to the teacher who's classroom was next to where the gunman ended up dead, he told me he felt so defenseless being barricaded in a classroom with other students and having no other means of defense than a wooden pointer stick. Sadly, it's during incidents like these that people realize that they are ultimately responsible for their own safety and lives. We all must learn from these events. In the end, there will always be evil people wanting to cause us harm, but I believe the good guys outnumber the bad. An armed society is a polite society.

Brief mention in USA TODAY: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001-03-05-shootlist.htm

Thanks.