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View Full Version : DROS Nightmare


glock1973
04-14-2012, 10:02 AM
So I go into Turners yesterday to pick up my M&P 15 Sport after 10 days DROS period. The sales guy tells me, that they don't have it, apparently there was a glitch in their computer - The firearm was shipped to a different store and SOLD!! WHAT THE !@#$%^&*()_!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:43:. They told me the serial # doesn't get reported or documented for long guns on DOJ paper work. I had bought over 1000 rounds of ammo ready to rock and load this weekend....now I got 1000 rounds of ammo......apparently I'll be shooting that out of my ***!!. I talked to the manager and told him, that he had to do something to make it up, ....this was totally unacceptable.

He offered to sell me a another $699 DPMS riffle for $100 less; I SAID NO. Conner of my eye I caught another M&P 15 (OR Model $999). At this point I didn't care and asked to make that happen. With $300 difference, we ended up splitting the difference...ended up walking out of there with M&P 15 OR and a box of FREE PMC 20rounds of ammo for $842.

I'm happy I have a riffle to shoot this weekend. Just worried about that freakin serial # from the other riffle which they sold to someone else. Has this ever happed to anyone else? CRAZY!!

ke6guj
04-14-2012, 10:07 AM
Just worried about that freakin serial # from the other riffle which they sold to someone else. Has this ever happed to anyone else? CRAZY!!as they mentioned, serial numbers are not sent to CADOJ so you don't need to worry about that other rifle possibly being "in your name".

mtwelve
04-14-2012, 10:08 AM
While initially upsetting, sounds like the issue was resolved and you are now a happy camper. Mistakes happen and at least they helped solve the problem and gave you a great rifle for a great price.

If you don't like the S&W let me know and I will take it off your hands...

SlickmisterN
04-14-2012, 10:09 AM
Uhhh this doesn't sound right... they let u walk with a totally different gun after completing a dros on one they shipped to a different store and then sold to someone else? Im confused...I think another dros and 10 day wait should have been completed. Guess that's only necessary on handguns though, until jan. 1st. 2014 that is. Then there will be 100x more issues like this purchasing a firearm in CA.

TreeHugger
04-14-2012, 10:11 AM
Never. But, I would've been pretty upset too.

I wouldn't worry about it, since the sn# is not reported. You end up ahead, with a little headache, have fun with it.

toby
04-14-2012, 10:13 AM
Uhhh this doesn't sound right... they let u walk with a totally different gun after completing a dros on one they shipped to a different store and then sold to someone else? Im confused...I think another dros and 10 day wait should have been completed. Guess that's only necessary on handguns though, until jan. 1st. 2014 that is. Then there will be 100xTucker more issues like this purchasing a firearm in CA.

Nope dros happened, they just need to change up the serial # on the paperwork. My guess anyway?

CSACANNONEER
04-14-2012, 10:14 AM
Uhhh this doesn't sound right... they let u walk with a totally different gun after completing a dros on one they shipped to a different store and then sold to someone else? Im confused...I think another dros and 10 day wait should have been completed.

Nope. You think wrong. The current long gun DROS has nothing to do with the SN, make, model, caliber, color or anything else. The ONLY information that DOJ can keep is the fact that a long gun was purchased by John Doe. Hell, you can even add new purchases to an open DROS 2 minutes before taking all the long guns on the DROS home with you.

SlickmisterN
04-14-2012, 10:18 AM
i like how u edited out my edit. lol did u do that on purpose?

CSACANNONEER
04-14-2012, 10:29 AM
i like how u edited out my edit. lol did u do that on purpose?

Uh, look at the time stamps. I qouted you before you tried to correct your post. It took me a couple minutes to respond.

Rhythm of Life
04-14-2012, 10:36 AM
While initially upsetting, sounds like the issue was resolved and you are now a happy camper. Mistakes happen and at least they helped solve the problem and gave you a great rifle for a great price.

If you don't like the S&W let me know and I will take it off your hands...

If a resolved issue to you means paying $150-300 more than the agreed price and firearm, I have a bunch of stuff to sell you.

Hell, you can even add new purchases to an open DROS 2 minutes before taking all the long guns on the DROS home with you.



Not really. On the DROS form it asks how many guns are on the ticket.

If you state 1 you cannot later make it two, unless you don't care about audits.....

CSACANNONEER
04-14-2012, 10:40 AM
Not really. On the DROS form it asks how many guns are on the ticket.

If you state 1 you cannot later make it two, unless you don't care about audits.....

Yes, REALLY! Many FFLs will leave the number of firearms blank until the end of the DROS period. Thus, allowing more to be added before pick up and closing out the DROS.

Carlow202
04-14-2012, 10:41 AM
This seems to be a common issues with them. Happened to a few friends. Moving longguns between stores just to make a sale.

Rhythm of Life
04-14-2012, 10:42 AM
Yes, REALLY! Many FFLs will leave the number of firearms blank until the end of the DROS period. Thus, allowing more to be added before pick up and closing out the DROS.

Right.

So if your FFL does not properly fill out forms like he should you can do it your way.....


A FFL that does not follow procedure is a FFL I don't use.


I'd rather do business with people that do **** right. You can deal with your questionable persons.

The Gleam
04-14-2012, 10:50 AM
Yes, REALLY! Many FFLs will leave the number of firearms blank until the end of the DROS period. Thus, allowing more to be added before pick up and closing out the DROS.

I've done that countless times. They just leave it open. In fact, I count on the fact that when I go back to pick up a long-gun, the dealer might have some new or special long-gun they got in stock during my 10-Day wait to add to my DROS when I pick up the gun (which is actually and usually a full two weeks for me, as I can't get back to pick it up during the week when the 10-Day expires - too busy).

So the unintended consequence of the anti-2nd Amendment crowd establishing a 10-day waiting period? Additional long-gun sales!! :43:

The Gleam
04-14-2012, 10:55 AM
Right.

So if your FFL does not properly fill out forms like he should you can do it your way.....


A FFL that does not follow procedure is a FFL I don't use.


I'd rather do business with people that do **** right. You can deal with your questionable persons.

There is nothing illegal or questionable about adding long-guns to a long-gun 4473/DROS before pick-up. I have NEVER had a dealer not offer to do that, even from the most stringent stores like Turners. The background check applies whether it's 1 or 6 Long-guns; only handguns must have individual DROS sheets. I've seen dealers actually put down 4 as purchased, then the sale diminishes to 3 because the 4th gun was not delivered by the time the DROS was ready for pick-up or by the end of the 30 days, inventory was depleted, or something else went sideways with the order. There is nothing wrong with that either.

Rhythm of Life
04-14-2012, 10:57 AM
There is nothing illegal or questionable about adding long-guns to a long-gun 4473/DROS before pick-up. I have NEVER had a dealer not offer to do that, even from the most stringent stores like Turners. The background check applies whether it's 1 or 6 Long-guns; only handguns must have individual DROS sheets.

"There is nothing wrong with not properly filling out a gov't document"

That is what you are saying.

Just because others do it doesn't mean you should.


Would you jump off a bridge to your death because your friends are?



Born in a barn and followers like sheep......

The Gleam
04-14-2012, 11:03 AM
"There is nothing wrong with not properly filling out a gov't document"

That is what you are saying.

Just because others do it doesn't mean you should.


Would you jump off a bridge to your death because your friends are?



Born in a barn and followers like sheep......

This isn't a case of "Just because others do it doesn't mean you should."

The government document you are citing allows for that. And I will trust the hundreds of dealers that have done this for me for nearly 2 decades, without a single report of it ever being an issue with DOJ/BOF or ATF, over yourself. In CA, these documents are INITIATED at time of purchase, but not COMPLETE until pick-up. On the DROS the Delivery Date/Time remains open as well. It's an incomplete document until that time.

Thanks for your tip; I'll take it under consideration with my FFL dealer on my multiple long-gun purchase this very weekend. :rolleyes:

Droppin Deuces
04-14-2012, 11:05 AM
That awkward moment when you realize everyone else in the crowded room you're in is looking at you like "Huh..?"

Rhythm of Life
04-14-2012, 11:06 AM
And I will trust the hundreds of dealers that have done this for me for nearly 2 decades,

Can I see a picture of your hundreds of firearms so I know you're not talking out of your ***?

Hundreds of dealers + multiple firearms on DROS = at least 100 firearms, since you stated plural that means over 100 and more like 200-300.

Just since we are being honest

;)

Droppin Deuces
04-14-2012, 11:08 AM
Can I see a picture of your hundreds of firearms so I know your not talking out of your ***?

Hundreds of dealers + multiple firearms on DROS = at least 100 firearms, since you stated plural that means over 100 and more like 200-300.

Just since we are being honest

;)

I did not interpret his statement to mean that he owns hundreds of firearms.

CSACANNONEER
04-14-2012, 11:09 AM
The form is NEVER 100% properly filled out until the DROS is closed and the transfer(s) are completed. Until that time, blanks can be continued to be filled in. I don't understand why you seem to think that the number of firearms is required to be filled in at the beginning of the DROS? Have you seen this in some sort of instructions or, are you just making things up as you go along?

Rhythm of Life
04-14-2012, 11:10 AM
I did not interpret his statement to mean that he has purchased hundreds of firearms.

Hundreds of dealers who have added multiple guns to a DROS form means you would HAVE to buy/own multiple firearms.

Seeing as he has a 0 iTrader rating I can assume he does not sell his firearms off.

Thus he must be an owner of hundreds of firearms.




Tell me how you buy guns from hundreds of dealers without buying guns.....


The form is NEVER 100% properly filled out until the DROS is closed and the transfer(s) are completed. Until that time, blanks can be continued to be filled in. I don't understand why you seem to think that the number of firearms is required to be filled in at the beginning of the DROS? Have you seen this in some sort of instructions or, are you just making things up as you go along?

Some people do **** right from the start.... others take their time and **** around.

Be who you want.

Droppin Deuces
04-14-2012, 11:14 AM
Hundreds of dealers who have added multiple guns to a DROS form means you would HAVE to buy/own multiple firearms.

Seeing as he has a 0 iTrader rating I can assume he does not sell his firearms off.

Thus he must be an owner of hundreds of firearms.




Tell me how you buy guns from hundreds of dealers without buying guns.....

I didn't realize it was a requirement to use iTrader when selling firearms:confused: Damn. I might be in trouble.

The Gleam
04-14-2012, 11:15 AM
Can I see a picture of your hundreds of firearms so I know you're not talking out of your ***?

Hundreds of dealers + multiple firearms on DROS = at least 100 firearms, since you stated plural that means over 100 and more like 200-300.

Just since we are being honest

;)

Yes, if you wish to be so frickin' smug. Look at a couple photos in my post history. They are there. Try not to drool on your shirt when you come across them.

AND for that matter, THAT'S JUST SOME OF THE PISTOLS that required INDIVIDUAL DROS PAPERWORK. Those photos don't even included THE HUNDREDS of long-guns!!


Here's a little help for you: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7639947&postcount=120

Laugh it up now, fun-boy. :cool:

CSACANNONEER
04-14-2012, 11:16 AM
Can I see a picture of your hundreds of firearms so I know you're not talking out of your ***?

Hundreds of dealers + multiple firearms on DROS = at least 100 firearms, since you stated plural that means over 100 and more like 200-300.

Just since we are being honest

;)

Over 2 decades... Do you think he might have sold a few along the way? However, many of us have to use 3 digits when counting our firearms. There's nothing unusual or wrong with that. Is there? Personally, I can probably think of no less than 15 transactions in which I've DROSed multiple long guns and added to the DROS at different times. Of course, these were only between 4 or 5 FFLs that I've used. Since we are being honest, just how many firearms do you own? What is your level of experience when it comes to firearms transactions? Where did you get your law degree? How long have you been or worked for a FFL?

Rhythm of Life
04-14-2012, 11:17 AM
Yes, if you wish to be so frickin' smug. Look at a couple photos in my post history. They are there. Try not to drool on your shirt when you come across them.

AND for that matter, THAT'S JUST SOME OF THE PISTOLS that required INDIVIDUAL DROS PAPERWORK. Those photos don't even included THE HUNDREDS of long-guns!!


Laugh it up now, fun-boy. :cool:

4 pages of your posts and no IMG codes..... I'm done researching you.


I didn't realize it was a requirement to use iTrader when selling firearms:confused: Damn. I might be in trouble.


You'd think with his time at CG he might sell one gun out of his hundreds ..... **** I've been here less time and sold 5. And I'm only a double digit gun owner.

gotshotgun?
04-14-2012, 11:19 AM
Wow so much hate going around here. OP congrats on the upgrade!

The Gleam
04-14-2012, 11:19 AM
4 pages of your posts and no IMG codes..... I'm done researching you.


Here's a little help for your lack of speed.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7639947&postcount=120

Get yourself a napkin.

Droppin Deuces
04-14-2012, 11:21 AM
You'd think with his time at CG he might sell one gun out of his hundreds ..... **** I've been here less time and sold 5. And I'm only a double digit gun owner.

Wonderful country we live in, isn't it?

Droppin Deuces
04-14-2012, 11:22 AM
Here's a little help for your lack of speed.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7639947&postcount=120

Get yourself a napkin.

Hey, you're not supposed to take the orange tip off of those:chris:

gotshotgun?
04-14-2012, 11:25 AM
Here's a little help for your lack of speed.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7639947&postcount=120

Get yourself a napkin.

Not very classy at all I must say.

CSACANNONEER
04-14-2012, 11:27 AM
Hundreds of dealers who have added multiple guns to a DROS form means you would HAVE to buy/own multiple firearms.

Seeing as he has a 0 iTrader rating I can assume he does not sell his firearms off.

Thus he must be an owner of hundreds of firearms.




Tell me how you buy guns from hundreds of dealers without buying guns.....




Some people do **** right from the start.... others take their time and **** around.

Be who you want.

HOW are iTrader ratings are connected to Ca's DROS system?

Sure some FFLs might be over zealous and aggressively fill out more on a form than they should at that time. But, I prefer doing business with people who fill out each part of a form when it is required for them to do so. I would hate for someone to illegally post date a signature or fill the number of firearms before that number is positively determined. If you want to do business with morons who don't know when to fill out what part of the form, that's your choice. I'll stick with doing business with competent FFLs and let you keep the others busy.

corcoraj2002
04-14-2012, 11:29 AM
Here's a little help for your lack of speed.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7639947&postcount=120

Get yourself a napkin.

Nice collection.

The Gleam
04-14-2012, 11:29 AM
Not very classy at all I must say.

I agree; questioning people about their ability to back up their words in the real world I grew up in is not classy at all. That only happens on the internet.

Especially when they can prove it. :)

Yep, not classy at all.

gotshotgun?
04-14-2012, 11:30 AM
Can I just say that I think this would be a great opportunity to see Cannoneer's arsenal, since this has come to a peepee contest. I'm sure its bigger...

gotshotgun?
04-14-2012, 11:31 AM
Oh and Gleam, you need more rifles! :D

TNP'R
04-14-2012, 11:32 AM
Can I just say that I think this would be a great opportunity to see Cannoneer's arsenal, since this has come to a peepee contest. I'm sure its bigger...

I'd never get into a contest with anyone on calguns about whos collection is bigger. I've seen some pics where there was a garage filled with them lol.

Oh and Gleam, you need more rifles! :D
Thought the same.

CSACANNONEER
04-14-2012, 11:32 AM
Here's a little help for your lack of speed.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7639947&postcount=120

Get yourself a napkin.

I wanna shoot your COP. I would even love to add it to my small pepperbox collection.

The Gleam
04-14-2012, 11:34 AM
I'd never get into a contest with anyone on calguns about whos collection is bigger. I've seen some pics where there was a garage filled with them lol.


Thought the same.

Yeah, the garage was full. I couldn't put any more in there once I got the trailered M2HB.

The Gleam
04-14-2012, 11:38 AM
I didn't realize it was a requirement to use iTrader when selling firearms:confused: Damn. I might be in trouble.

Actually, I didn't even know it was a requirement to be a Calguns member to buy guns.

Did Calguns.net even exist in 1986 ?? :confused:

And I don't sell my guns.

gotshotgun?
04-14-2012, 11:41 AM
I wish I didn't have to sell guns... what a world! Good for you though (seriously).

peter95
04-14-2012, 11:54 AM
That is why Turners sucks many times...!


so what does the DOJ know about you and your rifle?

What is the point of doing a PPT DROS from someone if there is no records of a lower to the original purchaser?

Peter.Steele
04-14-2012, 11:55 AM
"There is nothing wrong with not properly filling out a gov't document"

That is what you are saying.

Just because others do it doesn't mean you should.


Would you jump off a bridge to your death because your friends are?



Born in a barn and followers like sheep......



Question for you: are the height and weight on your driver's license correct?




Here's a little help for your lack of speed.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=7639947&postcount=120

Get yourself a napkin.


Forget the napkin ... Where's the deployment sock ... :eek:



I wanna shoot you COP. I would even love to add it to my small pepperbox collection.


You know, you might want to go back and edit that post ... absent any context, that's a pretty messed up statement ... ;)

russ69
04-14-2012, 12:01 PM
There is nothing illegal or questionable about adding long-guns to a long-gun 4473/DROS...

Most of the dealers I've dealt with over the years leave the 4473 open until you pick up. It's always a good time to add one more to the list, if you see something you like.

CSACANNONEER
04-14-2012, 12:14 PM
You know, you might want to go back and edit that post ... absent any context, that's a pretty messed up statement ... ;)

Uh, I thought about that and then added the last part. It make's it pretty clear that I'm only talking about Officer Pepperbox.:p