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View Full Version : Proper way to clean after using Corrosive Ammo


Waketek516
04-11-2012, 9:34 PM
Hi Guys,

I just got a great deal on some 7.62 Yugo surplus ammo that I couldn't pass up. However, its corrosive primed, and I've never cleaned a rifle after shooting that. I'll be using this in my Ruger Mini-30.

What's the proper time-frame & procedure for cleaning the barrel properly to avoid corrosion? I live about 1.5hrs away from the range so after I shoot, it would be in the car until I'm home.

Thanks!
-Tommy

Rebellious
04-11-2012, 9:43 PM
Not sure if there is a proper way to clean after using corrosive ammo. I'd assume you just clean it the way you would with any other firearm.

I'm interested in seeing what other people have to say...

d4v0s
04-11-2012, 9:53 PM
I boil water and pour it down the bore. then clean it as usual. I have waited till the next morning with no adverse effects. the plus side is that I still occasionally get some cosmoline coming out of the stock and bore or off the front sight.

Waketek516
04-11-2012, 9:58 PM
Not sure if there is a proper way to clean after using corrosive ammo. I'd assume you just clean it the way you would with any other firearm.

I'm interested in seeing what other people have to say...

I've heard the barrel should actually be rinsed with water while being cleaned. I want to confirm that before I do it.:confused:

Waketek516
04-11-2012, 11:18 PM
D4v0s- looks like we crossed posts. How do you pour the water in? A funnel of some kind?

Merc1138
04-11-2012, 11:23 PM
D4v0s- looks like we crossed posts. How do you pour the water in? A funnel of some kind?

Heat water. Pour hot water into rifle. Hot water will evaporate quicker after flushing out the corrosive stuff from the ammo(salt compounds from the primers I recall reading). Clean rifle like normal.

I guess you could use a funnel, but the corrosive stuff gets all over the place so...

ham
04-11-2012, 11:28 PM
keep a small bottle of windex in your rangebag to pour down the barrel after your done for the day. the ammonia will start to take care of the salts while you drive home, then do a solid clean. ( boiling water, dry patches, hoppes 9, oil)

swl
04-11-2012, 11:29 PM
Whenever I'm out in BLM Land and shooting my mosin, I just spray Windex down the bore in between "shooting sessions" (any break longer than one hour) and then Hoppes 9 and rem-oil it at the end of the day.

Merc1138
04-11-2012, 11:45 PM
keep a small bottle of windex in your rangebag to pour down the barrel after your done for the day. the ammonia will start to take care of the salts while you drive home, then do a solid clean. ( boiling water, dry patches, hoppes 9, oil)

Ammonia doesn't do anything(and there is hardly any in windex anyway), it's the water in the windex flushing it out.

If anything, ammonia could be problematic since dissolving an ammonia based salt in liquid ammonia just creates an acid.

It's also good for dissovling lithium, sodium, potassium(if you have rubidium, caesium, or francium in your gun you have bigger problems than corrosion since alkali metals tend to ignite/explode on contact with water, which windex has in it. And I recall francium being radioactive so that's another issue altogether. PS, you don't have those in your rifle). As well as magnesium, strontium, calcium, barium(and a couple other heavier elements).

Then of course there is the matter of solubility of common salts in general...(edit:forgot to mention this is grams per 100 grams of ammonia, but I don't know what temperature)
Ammonium acetate 253.2
Ammonium nitrate 389.6
Lithium nitrate 243.7
Sodium nitrate 97.6
Potassium nitrate 10.4
Sodium fluoride 0.35
Sodium chloride 3.0
Sodium bromide 138.0
Sodium iodide 161.9
Sodium thiocyanate 205.5
Some of which is next to nothing in ammonia(and again, windex doesn't contain tons of it) and of course solubility can also vary depending on temperature(I doubt anyone is actually boiling their windex to increase the solubility of salts in the water that windex contains, of course at that point you're boiling off the ammonia that was dissolved in it).

And then there is the issue of a bunch of windex products not even containing ammonia
The following products do not contain ammonia. They can be used in cases where ammonia is not recommended for use on surface.

Windex® Crystal Rain™, Windex® Multi-Surface with Glade® Clear Springs™, Windex® Multi-Surface Antibacterial, Windex® Multi-Surface Vinegar, Windex® Outdoor Multi-Surface Concentrated Cleaner and Windex™ Outdoor All-in-One Glass Cleaning Tool


Just flush it out with hot water and save the windex for the windows.

edit:

And out of my own curiosity wondering what the salts are in corrosive ammo in the first place, I seem to be seeing that they're mercuric salts, which aren't soluble in ammonia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury%28I%29_chloride
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury%28II%29_chloride

zfields
04-12-2012, 3:41 AM
I've always just dumped a bottle of water down the barrel at / action at the range, then a quick spray of WD 40 for the ride. Clean like normal once home, a dunk in water with the bolt and a good cleaning / oiling.

Ammonia is also not good on chrome lined barrels.

almaster666
04-12-2012, 4:57 AM
So far as the corrosiveness of the ammo. I have waited 3 weeks without cleaning and have never seen even the slightest trace of rust on my Mosin.
However, I fully understand you not wanting to take the risk with a Mini 30.

I personally use Windex, but water is fine. And then clean as usual.

Mr. Gillious
04-12-2012, 5:35 AM
I use corrosive ammo in my mosin nagant and when I clean it i scrub everything with CLP and or Simple Green Degreaser, scrub and mop the bore with shooters choice, wash off all the CLP and cleaning solvents with brake cleaner so that the metal is completely dry of oil (about $2.99 at kragen and dries fast), then spray everything with lube, wipe off all lube with clean rag or those blue paper towels (just so that there will atleast be a thin film of oil on every gun part to resist rust), then drop dots of lube in key areas, then wipe the whole firearm with silicone impregnated cloth. Your firearm should then look new (or damn clean)

Waketek516
04-12-2012, 7:29 AM
Wow!! Lots of great info here!! Thanks guys!!

I get the gun out of jail Sunday morning, and will be shooting that afternoon. The corrosive ammo won't be here by then, but this is all great info for when I use it!

gorenut
04-12-2012, 8:36 AM
When I was looking to get a Saiga in 5.45, I looked up info on cleaning corrosive ammo. A popular one seems to be mixing a solution of 90% water and 10% Ballistol. Apparently this method has been used in Europe for over a century.

Iknownot
04-12-2012, 9:10 AM
I just bring a spray bottle of soap water. Spray it down the chamber end at the end of the range trip making sure a decent amount of water comes out the end. Run some patches through to dry out the water. Run a couple of oiled patched through. Viola. Done. After that, you can pretty much clean normally after that whenever you feel like it.

Btw, isn't it not optimal to run corrosive ammo through semi rifles because of the corrosives getting trapped in the gas block and thusly becoming harder to clean out and remove?

Hunter47
04-12-2012, 10:29 AM
I pulled this off the 7.62X54R.net web page:
After shooting corrosive ammunition some special considerations are necessary. All surplus 7.62x54r ammunition is “corrosive” which simply means that the chemical compound of the primer contains salts which are left behind in the bore and will attract moisture eventually causing rust. The ammunition is not corrosive in the sense that it is acidic and will cause immediate damage to the firearm and with proper cleaning corrosive ammunition will do no more harm than non-corrosive ammunition. Corrosive primers have a much longer shelf life than non-corrosive primers and this is the reason they were used in the Eastern Bloc long after Western militaries switched to non-corrosive primers. The benefit to shooters is cheap surplus ammunition that is still reliable after fifty years or more, with more meticulous cleaning being the trade off. When corrosive ammunition is used the firearm should be cleaned as soon as practical with higher humidity necessitating faster action than lower humidity. It is best to take basic cleaning supplies to the range and clean immediately after the end of the shooting session with a more thorough follow up later. Many shooters have strong opinions on the cleaning solutions and steps to take after using corrosive ammunition. A mixture of water and ammonia or glass cleaner (Windex) with ammonia is popular, but requires a thorough drying and cleaning with solvents followed by application of oil to prevent rust from the water based solutions themselves. Ammonia can discolor stock finishes and should be used with care, preferably removing the stock completely. Boiling water poured down the bore is a method dating back to the days of blackpowder muzzle loaders. While it is effective and the heat transferred to the metal will usually be enough to evaporate any remaining water it requires preparation time and equipment. An accidental spill of boiling water can also be dangerous and there is a chance that water will find its way into the barrel/receiver threads where it can’t be removed. The stock should also be removed to keep it dry and a thorough application of oil is required. At this point many have probably sworn off corrosive ammunition for life, but cleaning after its use doesn’t have to be as complicated as some shooters make it. The old stand by of Hoppe’s #9 was created when corrosive primers were the norm and is formulated to remove the salts which can cause damage. All that is necessary is standard cleaning using Hoppe’s #9, or any other solvent formulated specifically for corrosive ammunition, but paying particular attention to any areas possibly contacted by gases from powder ignition. Other than the bore this would include the bayonet if fixed, the end of the barrel, and even the front sight due to the large fireball produced by some surplus ammunition, especially in carbines. The bolt head and firing pin should also receive particular attention as there is a chance of gas leakage between the primer and its pocket. If surplus ammunition is used regularly the shooter will eventually experience a pierced primer, evident by a puff of gas in the face, which can be due to a soft primer cup or a firing pin with too much protrusion. In this case the bolt should be fully disassembled, except for the extractor, and thoroughly cleaned and lubricated and extra attention should be given to the inside of the receiver and magazine. This applies even if the ammunition is non-corrosive as the hot gases will evaporate any oil leaving no protection or lubrication. Occasionally the idea is proposed that shooting non-corrosive primed ammunition after shooting corrosive primed ammunition will physically remove the salts in the bore. This seems like a waste of expensive ammunition and it is questionable whether it would do any good for areas like the bolt face, firing pin, exterior muzzle, and bayonet. Regardless the firearm should still be cleaned and if a solvent formulated for corrosive primers is used there is no extra work or expense involved.
Before shooting a firearm the bore should be wiped clean with a dry patch or two to remove any excess oil which can lead to higher than normal pressures. It also insures that the bore is not obstructed which can cause catastrophic failure and injury to the shooter. An inspection and function test with dummy cartridges is also not a bad idea, especially if the firearm has been shot and cleaned by someone else or it is a firearm that is not shot and handled on a regular basis.

bighead
04-12-2012, 10:42 AM
OcFKCTfKENc

bighead
04-12-2012, 10:43 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFKCTfKENc

Merc1138
04-12-2012, 10:54 AM
OcFKCTfKENc

A good explanation without as much science, but good none the less. Some of these old wive's tales in the gun world get really irritating, especially the ones that can be easily researched like this. The ammonia in windex does nothing for people shooting corrosive ammo and can cause just as many problems as water or worse if not dealt with properly.

Squid
04-12-2012, 10:59 AM
good quality American ammo.

It doesn't like any steel case ammo, new or surplus.

Other than that, it is a great gun and far more accurate than any AK in 7.62mm.

He wont even try any more cheap ammo in that gun.



The guy in video should wear goggles when using compressed air. What de-greaser is he using without gloves. I've heard GunScrubber will discolor/affect plastic....but maybe not "gun plastic".

Elwood_Blues
04-12-2012, 11:11 AM
When I shoot my Mosin, I just spray Simple Green down the pipe and then run a bore snake with some oil on it.

b.faust
04-12-2012, 12:14 PM
A guy at the range showed me a trick a few years back when I first got my PSL. He had stolen his wife's turkey baster and was using that with some warm soapy water to hit all the right spots without getting water all over the wood.

My normal M.O. now is to fill a thermos with warm soapy water and after I'm done shooting I blast the bolt face, barrel and gas tube with it. Works great.

I don't recommend stealing the turkey baster though...just go buy one. ;)

Edit: Also, three years of shooting corrosive through my PSL and I have zero rust.

lrj812
04-12-2012, 12:57 PM
I have read about the Mini 30 liking certain kinds of ammo. I also seem to recall different diameter barrels being produced so this would be important to check. Something about .308 vs. .310 actual bullet diameter.

I have fired over 1000k of Yugo M67 through a Saiga with great results. I come home and poor hot tap water down the barrel and clean like normal. The Yugo M67 is very good for Milsurp.

BAGunner
04-12-2012, 1:33 PM
Dip it in the pond, that's it.

sean michael
04-12-2012, 5:38 PM
Whenever I'm out in BLM Land and shooting my mosin, I just spray Windex down the bore in between "shooting sessions" (any break longer than one hour) and then Hoppes 9 and rem-oil it at the end of the day.

I do the exact same thing. Make sure your Windex has ammonia, some of the new versions don't.

Merc1138
04-12-2012, 5:42 PM
I do the exact same thing. Make sure your Windex has ammonia, some of the new versions don't.

:facepalm:

The ammonia doesn't do anything.

zfields
04-12-2012, 6:13 PM
:facepalm:

The ammonia doesn't do anything.

And can damage some barrels :facepalm:

sean michael
04-12-2012, 6:24 PM
:facepalm:

The ammonia doesn't do anything.

I stand corrected. I'll still use windex though. It kinda foams it's way through the barrel instead of running straight out like water. Now that I know about the ammonia, maybe now I'll try one of the fruitier smelling one's they've come with that doesn't have it :)

Waketek516
04-12-2012, 6:36 PM
Well... I can't thank you guys enough! I already have the Hoppes #9, Rem Oil, and a spray bottle I can put water in. I thought this was a much more complicated process when I first heard of corrosive ammo. Looks like as long as it has a through rinse, cleaning, and re-oil - its good to go!

fusionstar
04-12-2012, 6:50 PM
I just pour 2-3 cups of hot sink water down the tube. disassemble bolt and rinse in hot water. Run several dry patches down the bore, wait till it all drys,spray WD 40 on everything i got wet, then coat the sum b in rem oil.. DONE

GMG
04-12-2012, 7:12 PM
Well to each his own.

Myself at the range before leaving I pull the bolt and spray down with Windex and douche the barrel and gas tube the Windex. When I get home, it's time for the boiling water then clean as usual. It has worked for me.

tujungatoes
04-12-2012, 7:45 PM
Hah I'm not the only windex hater.:D

It's really not as big a deal as everyone makes it out to be. When you get home clean as usual. After that run some patches soaked in water down the bore to dissolve any remaining salts and wash them out of the bore. Don't forget the bolt face. Then just oil it up.

No gallons of scalding hot water, no voodoo ritual, and no damned windex.


It really doesn't do any good to pour a metric a**-ton of water down the bore before it's been properly cleaned. You'll have corrosive salts trapped under the carbon and copper fouling in there. The above post was written about a mauser. Don't forget about your gas system. Don't worry too much about the time between range and cleaning unless you live near a body of water or it's raining. This is So-Cal after all it's a freakin' desert. I've left my rifles dirty sometimes for weeks with no ill effects...I don't encourage it. Just making the point that it's all about humidity.

joefrank64k
04-12-2012, 7:55 PM
Just follow Dennis Kroh's advice:

http://www.empirearms.com/clean.htm

How to properly clean after using corrosive ammo

This is how I do it... it's easy, it's fast, and it's effective. Best of all you can do it while still on the firing-line and thus not offend your significant other with the usually pungent stench of commercial cleaners in your home.

Dilute regular household ammonia (sudsy is best but regular is OK too) to 2/1 or 3/1 with water (it can be as much as 10/1 if the smell really gets to you). Keep in a small bottle to take with you to the range but label it well so you don't mistake it for contact-lens solution or something (yeeeowww!)

After you are done firing and while still at the range moisten (not dripping-wet, but sorta-soaked) a patch and run it down the bore and back once. This instantly will neutralize and dissolve the corrosive salt-compounds from the primers and start in on the copper and powder fouling with a vengeance.

Let stand for thirty seconds or so (just enough time to take off and throw away the ammonia-patch you just used and put a new, dry patch on your rod). Run the dry patch (or several) down the bore and you are most literally done.

DON'T OVERDO IT! More ISN'T better in this case...

You really don't want to slop ammonia (especially if heavily concentrated) all over the blued parts of the gun (as it will likely start to remove bluing after 30 minutes or so) and you also shouldn't leave the ammonia in the bore for an extended period of time (like hours, although I do know folks who do that anyway) as that may (not WILL, but MAY) cause "crazing" (microscopic pitting) of the metal. I also have to caution against slopping ammonia on the wooden parts of your rifle, as it will usually strip the finish down to bare-wood, BUT if you follow my advise on HOW MUCH ammonia to use (only enough to dampen, but not soak, a single patch per gun) you will not EVER experience ANY problems at all...

If you are worried about primer residue getting on the bolt-face you may want to quickly wipe it with the wet patch before throwing the thing away and quickly dry it. Same thing with the gas-tube in a semi-automatic rifle... don't go overboard, just wet it and dry it and get done with it.

As a final precaution (since the ammonia will also kill all lubricants and leave the metal very dry) you can run a patch of gun-oil down the bore and leave it like that for protection from the elements (just be sure to run a dry patch down the bore before shooting it again).

I've been cleaning guns this way (including *every* gun we sell) for nearly thirty years, and have never had rust form in any bore (even here in humid Florida).

However, if you are (like some folks I have met) completely obsessed about leaving traces of ANY powder or copper residue in the bore of your weapon, you can certainly follow up your "field-cleaning" with a detailed, strenuous, traditional cleaning once you are home (or in a week or month from then). But I warn you... your bore is much more be likely to be damaged from your over-enthusiastic scrubbing to get out that "last speck of copper" (which has no affect on the actual accuracy of your firearm) than it will with all the rounds you could possibly send down it during your lifetime.

Dennis Kroh

Why do people insist on making this complicated??? :)

tujungatoes
04-12-2012, 8:00 PM
^I'm sorry Joe, but, that's really horrible advice. You can't "neutralize" salt. It's freakin' salt you just remove it. All he's done there is introduced moisture into an environment that creates rust....with moisture.

joefrank64k
04-12-2012, 8:14 PM
^I'm sorry Joe, but, that's really horrible advice. You can't "neutralize" salt. It's freakin' salt you just remove it. All he's done there is introduced moisture into an environment that creates rust....with moisture.

As always, to each his own...YMMV...etc, etc.

Merc1138
04-12-2012, 8:18 PM
Just follow Dennis Kroh's advice:

http://www.empirearms.com/clean.htm



Why do people insist on making this complicated??? :)

You post instructions that say to use ammonia(which doesn't do anything productive) that includes risks of damaging finishes(if the concentration is too high and is left for too long), and you say other people are complicating things?

joefrank64k
04-12-2012, 8:46 PM
You post instructions that say to use ammonia(which doesn't do anything productive) that includes risks of damaging finishes(if the concentration is too high and is left for too long), and you say other people are complicating things?

I posted instructions from a guy who has made his living for 30+ years buying/selling milsurp firearms. Dennis says that this method has worked for him without fail for 30 years. He has a stellar reputation in the milsurp world.

I use it, and it couldn't be simpler.

I have a small bottle of diluted ammonia in my range tool box, and when I'm done shooting corrosive for the day, while still at the range, I run ONE ammonia patch down the barrel. Then I run ONE dry patch. Then I run ONE Break-Free patch. And I'm done. No rust, no corrosion, no problems. Easy.

I appreciated your treatise on salts, ammonia, metals, etc. Very informative. But, it feels like the distinction between normative ethics and applied ethics. One is geared to how things ought to be, the other is geared to how things actually are.

Dennis's method actually works. Not in theory, but in practice. Is it just the water in the diluted ammonia that's doing the work? Yeah, maybe. But using his method works for me, and for all my corrosive ammo shooting buddies, too. No one has any damaged finishes. No one has any rust. No one has any corrosion. And the ammonia even takes care of the copper fouling. Bonus! :)

To each their own!!!

Merc1138
04-12-2012, 8:51 PM
I posted instructions from a guy who has made his living for 30+ years buying/selling milsurp firearms. Dennis says that this method has worked for him without fail for 30 years. He has a stellar reputation in the milsurp world.

I use it, and it couldn't be simpler.

I have a small bottle of diluted ammonia in my range tool box, and when I'm done shooting corrosive for the day, while still at the range, I run ONE ammonia patch down the barrel. Then I run ONE dry patch. Then I run ONE Break-Free patch. And I'm done. No rust, no corrosion, no problems. Easy.

I appreciated your treatise on salts, ammonia, metals, etc. Very informative. But, it feels like the distinction between normative ethics and applied ethics. One is geared to how things ought to be, the other is geared to how things actually are.

Dennis's method actually works. Not in theory, but in practice. Is it just the water in the diluted ammonia that's doing the work? Yeah, maybe. But using his method works for me, and for all my corrosive ammo shooting buddies, too. No one has any damaged finishes. No one has any rust. No one has any corrosion. And the ammonia even takes care of the copper fouling. Bonus! :)

To each their own!!!

At that rate you could just flush the money you would be spending on the ammonia down the toilet instead of having to go buy it. It would be simpler. I'm not saying the man you quoted doesn't know how to clean his guns. I'm saying he doesn't know what part of what he's doing is actually getting the work done. Instead of being a case of needing to work smarter and not harder, it would be working cheaper and not spendier(heck if I know, couldn't think of a word that made more sense to put there). I'm not saying ammonia is expensive either, but there's just no point.

BTW, unless you've got a ridiculous amount of fouling(actual fouling, not just the super thin streaks normally present), cleaning out every last trace of the copper doesn't do you any good either unless you like "fouling shots" to get consistent again.

axhoaxho
04-12-2012, 9:40 PM
OcFKCTfKENc

An informative video. Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

gsrious
04-12-2012, 10:56 PM
You guys are telling me that you never just take the upper off of the lower and soak it in a bath tub of water? I do it all the time. Pull bolt out and break it down to its components. Since you're at it already, simply just inverted the upper and let water run through it. I do it all the time with my 7.62x39 ar.

gsrious
04-12-2012, 10:57 PM
I then blow dry it with compressed air. Then oil it.

Bull's_eye
04-12-2012, 11:48 PM
I shoot only corrosive through my mosin. I pour boiling water from my tea kettle down the barrel from the chamber end. Then clean like normal with a bore brush and hoppes #9

tujungatoes
04-13-2012, 5:24 AM
You guys are telling me that you never just take the upper off of the lower and soak it in a bath tub of water? I do it all the time. Pull bolt out and break it down to its components. Since you're at it already, simply just inverted the upper and let water run through it. I do it all the time with my 7.62x39 ar.

I don't, but then most of my guns don't have uppers to separate.:shrug: It ain't my method, but it would work.

sdfire
04-13-2012, 6:11 AM
The way I was told by my Russian friend was to pour some of your vodka on a cleaning patch and run it down the the bore with cleaning rod after shooting. The water in it will dissolve the salt, and the alcohol makes it dry fast. Then clean as normal with oil. Plus the vodka makes eastern bloc rifles feel at home.:)

sean michael
04-13-2012, 12:28 PM
You guys are telling me that you never just take the upper off of the lower and soak it in a bath tub of water? I do it all the time. Pull bolt out and break it down to its components. Since you're at it already, simply just inverted the upper and let water run through it. I do it all the time with my 7.62x39 ar.

That might be the last straw if my wife caught me in the bathtub with a rifle. :facepalm:

SURVIVOR619
04-13-2012, 12:48 PM
Some of these comments about doing all of this at the range must mean this is being done at an outdoor range or a place where you're ok disassembling your rifle at your car..? I get it on BLM land, but at least where I am at, I could not start pouring water or spraying windex in the range or at my car.

I appreciated hunter47's post about the moisture/humidity aspect. Makes me feel OK that I can wait the car ride home before I need to worry about residuals causing immediate problems.

Merc1138
04-13-2012, 1:25 PM
Some of these comments about doing all of this at the range must mean this is being done at an outdoor range or a place where you're ok disassembling your rifle at your car..? I get it on BLM land, but at least where I am at, I could not start pouring water or spraying windex in the range or at my car.

I appreciated hunter47's post about the moisture/humidity aspect. Makes me feel OK that I can wait the car ride home before I need to worry about residuals causing immediate problems.

So just do it when you get home?

The salt isn't what causes the rust problems. The problem is that the salts can be hygroscopic and pull water out of the air in the environment... over time. Left to sit, it can be a problem. You aren't going to have an issue tossing your rifle back in the bag, driving home, and letting it be for an hour or two in the meantime.

RustyMacHine
04-13-2012, 1:33 PM
OK stupid Question.
Are all Spam can 7N6 5.45 ammo corrosive? (the inside cardboard label doesn't have a manufacture date.)

Around Dec. last year:
I shot some surplus ammo (3 packs of surplus) through my rifle (well oiled) before to see what it does. It started to show some rust in the gas tube, inside the rear sight block, around the trunnion and even the FCG.

A few months ago:
I finally got myself a whole can and took my rifle out twice (both times dry- no oil anywhere except a little dab down the bore) used surplus ammo, shot about 200+ rounds from both trips combined. I haven't cleaned it in between trips and since the last trip. The only rust spot I found was in the muzzle end of the gas tube w/c was very minimal and all I did was plastic bore brush it out.


So could it be that, Not all Surplus ammo are corrosive or the oil inside the firearm promotes rust?

Can someone please ssplain to me what's going on?


.

Merc1138
04-13-2012, 1:35 PM
OK stupid Question.
Are all Spam can 7N6 5.45 ammo corrosive? (the inside cardboard label doesn't have a manufacture date.)

Around Dec. last year:
I shot some surplus ammo (3 packs of surplus) through my rifle (well oiled) before to see what it does. It started to show some rust in the gas tube, inside the rear sight block, around the trunnion and even the FCG.

A few months ago:
I finally got myself a whole can and took my rifle out twice (this time dry- no oil anywhere except a little dab down the bore) used surplus ammo, shot about 200+ rounds from both trips combined. I haven't cleaned it since then. The only rust spot I found was in the muzzle end of the gas tube w/c was very minimal and all I did was plastic bore brush it out.


So could it be that, Not all Surplus ammo are corrosive or the oil inside the firearm promotes rust?

Can someone please ssplain to me what's going on?


.

Not all surplus ammo is corrosive. No idea whether all 7N6 surplus is corrosive.

RustyMacHine
04-13-2012, 1:41 PM
Not all surplus ammo is corrosive. No idea whether all 7N6 surplus is corrosive.

Well thank you sir! That was quick and now to hit up the same vendor. :D

I thought running the rifle dry helps.



.

Merc1138
04-13-2012, 1:46 PM
Well thank you sir! That was quick and now to hit up the same vendor. :D

I thought running the rifle dry helps.



.

Before you do that, just keep in mind that when I said "not all surplus ammo is corrosive" I literally meant ALL of it. For all I know every piece of combloc surplus is(I don't buy or shoot the stuff).

Kamo850
04-13-2012, 1:46 PM
Also you can check for a couple of days afterward for any problems. Instead of leaving it unused for months after the cleaning.

RustyMacHine
04-13-2012, 1:52 PM
Before you do that, just keep in mind that when I said "not all surplus ammo is corrosive" I literally meant ALL of it. For all I know every piece of combloc surplus is(I don't buy or shoot the stuff).

I was shooting Silver Bears only. I also tried wolf and then I got brave and started shooting surplus (way cheaper) there's nothing too it though, I always usually clean after I shoot.


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Spirit 1
04-15-2012, 12:25 PM
I've been trying to get the straight scoop on proper cleaning after corrosive primers for quite some time. The best original work on the subject was written by Dr. Wilbert J. Huff of the U.S. Bureau of Mines in 1922, as Technical Paper #188, 'Corrosion under Oil Films', which was a direct reference work on corrosion caused by firearms primers of the day. After WWI the U.S Govt. directed the U.S. Bureau of Mines to research the cause of corrosion in firearms resulting from corrosive primers. It's available here for online viewing reference and download:

PDF: http://archive.org/details/corrosionunderoi00huff

View online: http://archive.org/stream/corrosionunderoi00huff#page/n1/mode/2up

Dr. Huff later developed and marketed his own product for firearms cleaning and protection, 'Huff's Chloroil'. It was water based but also contained oils for protection of metal. The Hoppe's #9 formula was developed in 1903, many years before Dr. Huff's research and did not benefit from his knowledge on the subject nor from any experiences of World War I. Hoppe's #9 original ingredients have seemingly become 5-6 ingredients today but still nothing specific in accordance with Dr. Huff's research. Hoppe's #9 doesn't seem to have any ingredient to neutralize or remove Potassium Chlorate according to their own MSDS: http://www.hoppes.com/au_msds.html

The working action of Ammonia is only to dissolve Copper Fouling. The Copper Fouling is in direct contact with barrel steel and holds a Corrosive Primer's salt residue in contact also. It's the Potassium Chlorate KClO3 crystalline salt oxidizer component in Corrosive Primers that's the actual cause of corrosion problems. Ammonia can help break down the adhesion of Copper Fouling, which can then expose the residues of Potassium Chlorate or Potassium Chloride to be washed away or neutralized. In the treatise by Dr. Wilbert Huff the references to 'deliquesces' apparently means to become liquid by drawing moisture from the air.

Ammonia has no direct effect on the Potassium Chlorate KClO3 of itself. A somewhat similar form of these salts is Potassium Chloride KCl, ordinary 'Table Salt', lacking the oxidizer effect of Potassium Chlorate because of missing Ozygen [O3] radicals. Potassium Chloride is the end result after Oxygen molecules in Potassium Chlorate have evaporated off in a gun barrel. Potassium Chlorate is also the stuff that's on old-fashioned 'Strike Anywhere' wooden stick matches to ignite the other chemicals.

The more rounds fired the more the copper fouling occurs. Behind each layer of copper fouling the corrosive primer gases containing Potassium Chlorate/Chloride salt residues coat the bore, then progressive layers of both build up. We need to break through the copper fouling that's plated to the bore to get at the Potassium Chlorate/Chloride and dissolve it or flush it away. That's Ammonia's job, to dissolve and remove copper fouling, to expose the Potassium Chlorate/Chloride for removal.

If there is no Copper Fouling, which is highly unlikely, plain water is sufficient to remove the Potassium Chlorate/Chloride completly from a gun barrel, though some swabbing is suggested. After causing or allowing drying of the cleaned barrel a suitable oil is used to protect against any further corrosion or rust that might occur as a result of normal variations in humidity above 55%.

I personally prefer a cleaning rod sop with ammonia, and a scrub with bore brush to further loosen copper fouling, rinse & swab with plain water, dry and oil. How one does that is a matter of personal convenience and what's available at the time.

tdyoung1958
04-15-2012, 1:43 PM
Hi Guys,

I just got a great deal on some 7.62 Yugo surplus ammo that I couldn't pass up. However, its corrosive primed, and I've never cleaned a rifle after shooting that. I'll be using this in my Ruger Mini-30.

What's the proper time-frame & procedure for cleaning the barrel properly to avoid corrosion? I live about 1.5hrs away from the range so after I shoot, it would be in the car until I'm home.

Thanks!
-Tommy

I usually have a old 24oz soda bottle in my range bag with a 75/25 water/ammonia mix it neutralizes and washes away the salts from the primers which cause the corrosion. I just pour it down the barrel and clean the bold face with it. Then clean and oil as you normally would.

I've seen some guns that will begin to rust within a hour of shooting, but these were older surplus guns that had probably been improperly cleaned to begin with. Have one Mosin that was so rusty when I bought it for $49 that they never got totally cleaned up and still show pitting but shoots fine and has good rifling. Cleaned it up the best I could then we shot about 50 rounds through it to clean out more. Then cleaned it out again, looks better but still a bit pitted

Mr. Gillious
04-15-2012, 1:46 PM
... i forgot to add, ballistol works great

StratORcaster
04-15-2012, 1:53 PM
The solution to pollution is dilution = Hot water, then clean as you normal would.

LBDamned
04-15-2012, 9:19 PM
this subject comes up monthly...

When I first started shooting Yugo surplus I was real concerned because I kept reading the post about rust and clean right away, etc... initially I would clean within 24 hours...

At one point I waited a week because I didnt have time to clean it till weekend - no rust or corrosive zombies crawling out... now I wait 2-3 weeks if needed... never have a problem.

I clean the AK the same as my AR which is same as all my pistols = Hoppe's 9 in the barrel, Birchwood Casey Gun Scrubber everywhere else - spray/wipe with Sheath (now called Barricade)... oil with Rem Oil and good to go.

No disrespect to all that say clean sooner or differently - but I think it's over-hyped. I suppose in certain conditions it could be an issue... but I live about 5 miles from coast - in So Cal, no extreme climate conditions... Yugo Surplus simply does not create problems.

jtv3062
04-16-2012, 6:59 AM
Quick quiz, what's the thing used for?

http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k523/jtv3062/IMAG0088.jpg
http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k523/jtv3062/IMAG0087.jpg

Spirit 1
04-16-2012, 9:20 AM
Early Roman Empire personal urinal?