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Pthfndr
04-11-2012, 7:13 PM
Next one is in 1 WEEK on Sunday April 29, 2012

In keeping with the Garand and High Power groups, juniors 20 and under will get to shoot for free. So if you fall into that make sure you speak up when you sign in.

Since there were some who had difficulty getting dialed in at 800 yards the first time, the 800 yard shoot time is extended from 12 minutes to 15 minutes.

This is a FUN, low stress fun match. Meant to let milsurp shooters stretch the legs of their war horses and see what they are capable of and have FUN.

I have email addresses for some of you who are interested, but not all. If you think you might attend shoot me an email with Vintage Military Long Range Match in the subject and I will add you to the email group for this event. That will be used not only for further notices, but for sending out match results.


Vintage Military Rifle Long Range Match

Where: The 1000 yard range (range 12) at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. If you have not been there before follow the directions at this link http://www.sacvalley.org/contact.html

When: Sunday April 29, 2012 (match will be canceled if it rains)

Sign in: 7-7:30 am at Culbertson Cove (big steel shed below the 1000 yard firing line)

Safety Brief at 8:00, shooting starts at 8:30

Cost: @$20 (Juniors 20 and under shoot for free)

For more info contact Rob Thomas – robertthomas2@comcast.net or 530-644-3925 after 6 pm

Course of Fire:
2 Sighter shots and 10 rounds for record in 12 minutes at 300, 500 and 600 yards. Unlimited Sighter shots and 10 rounds for record in 15 minutes at 800 yards. All shot from the prone position.
We will shoot in 3 relays. Relay 1 will shoot while relay 2 scores for them and Relay 3 pulls targets, then rotate through the relays as we move from firing line to firing line.
All competitors who shoot are expected to pull a target in the target pits and to score.

Classes of firearms:
-AS ISSUED: Any original AS ISSUED WWII or older design military rifle, bolt action or semi auto. (No match barrels, sights, triggers, bedding, etc)

-OPEN CLASS: Any original WWII or older design military rifle RECEIVER, bolt action or semi auto, with ANY SIGHTS or ANY SCOPE. (Match barrels, sights, scopes, triggers, bedding, etc will be allowed, NO synthetic stocks allowed)

Shooting Rests and Equipment:
-Any SOFT front rest is allowed (back pack, sand bags, etc)
-Shooting sticks are allowed
-No bipods, No mechanical front rests, No hard/rigid front rests are allowed (it's ok to place a sand bag on a box)
-No rear rests are allowed. Just hand support under the butt stock
-Empty Chamber Indicators are required (available at the match if you don’t have one)
-Spotting scopes are allowed (and recommended, you will need something to see with when scoring)
-Shooting jackets, gloves and slings are allowed

Ammunition:
-Any military surplus ammo is allowed except for tracer, incendiary or armor piercing (steel jacketed ammo is ok)
-Any hand loaded ammo is ok with the same exceptions as above.

Awards:
-Must be at least 3 shooters in a rifle type or class for an award to be paid.
-Awards will be cash awards paid from the entry fees.
-Award will be paid to the overall AS ISSUED winner.
-Award will be paid to the overall OPEN CLASS winner.
-Award will be paid to the 1st place winner for each type of rifle in the AS ISSUED class
(ex: 1st 91/30, 1st M39, 1st K31, 1st Swedish Mauser, 1st 98 Mauser, 1st Garand)
Those wishing to attend and shoot other, more modern rifle types (AR15, M1A etc) are welcome on a space available basis, but will not be eligible for awards.

Pthfndr
04-11-2012, 7:18 PM
For those who think they might have trouble hitting the target, don't worry about it. Below are sizes of the scoring rings in inches. The 300 yard target is on a 48" square card board backer, and the 500/600/800 are on a 6 foot (72") square card board backer. Almost impossible to miss. You should have no problem being on paper with your first sighter shots, and then you'll be able to adjust your sights/scopes, or your "hold" to get closer to the X ring.

In the interest of making it easier for people, and to reduce the number of times we have to switch out targets, we use the 600 yard target at both 500 and 600 yards.

SR-3 300 yards

Aiming Black (inches)
X ring . . . . . . . . . 3.00
10 ring . . . . . . . . . 7.00
9 ring . . . . . . . . . 13.00
8 ring . . . . . . . . . 19.00
Rings in White (inches)
7 ring . . . . . . . . . 25.00
6 ring . . . . . . . . . 31.00
5 ring . . . . . . . . . 37.00

MR-1 600 yards

Aiming Black (inches)
X ring . . . . . . . . 6.00
10 ring . . . . . . . 12.00
9 ring . . . . . . . . 18.00
8 ring . . . . . . . . 24.00
7 ring . . . . . . . . 36.00
Rings in White (inches)
6 ring . . . . . . . . . . 48.00
5 ring . . . . . . . . . . 60.00

LR 800 yards

Aiming Black (inches)
X ring . . . . . . . 10.00
10 ring . . . . . . . 20.00
9 ring . . . . . . . . 30.00
8 ring . . . . . . . . 44.00
Rings in White (inches)
7 ring . . . . . . . . . . 60.00
6 area . . . 72x72 square

pro-nra
04-11-2012, 8:06 PM
Barring rain like the last Garand match, I'll me there and if I can wake up my 16 year old son he'll be there too.

stevied
04-11-2012, 8:15 PM
Barring rain like the last Garand match, I'll me there and if I can wake up my 16 year old son he'll be there too.

It's nice of you to delete all comments about people calling you out for selling CMP ammo you bought two months ago at $90 for $250. Sticking up for calgunners!!!

Pthfndr
04-11-2012, 9:04 PM
It's nice of you to delete all comments about people calling you out for selling CMP ammo you bought two months ago at $90 for $250. Sticking up for calgunners!!!

And what exactly does this have to do with my match?

He's not a moderator so he can't delete anyone's comments.

If you have a problem with him take it off line or report it to a moderator, but please do not clutter up my thread.

17+1
04-11-2012, 9:10 PM
Rob, you should shoot vintage with me this weekend at the 3x600. I'm expecting to have the only wooden gun out there, unless Paul shows up with his Swede again.

bruceflinch
04-11-2012, 9:16 PM
[QUOTE=Pthfndr;8387062]Next one is in 2 WEEKS on Sunday April 29, 2012

I have email addresses for some of you who are interested, but not all. If you think you might attend shoot me an email with Vintage Military Long Range Match in the subject and I will add you to the email group for this event. That will be used not only for further notices, but for sending out match results.


Vintage Military Rifle Long Range Match

For more info contact Rob Thomas Ė robertthomas2@comcast.net or 530-644-3925 after 6 pm

Course of Fire:
2 Sighter shots and 10 rounds for record in 12 minutes each at 300, 500 and 600 yards. Unlimited Sighter shots and 10 rounds for record in 15 minutes at 800 yards. All shot from the prone position.
We will shoot in 3 relays. Relay 1 will shoot while relay 2 scores for them and Relay 3 pulls targets, then rotate through the relays as we move from firing line to firing line.
All competitors who shoot are expected to pull a target in the target pits and to score.
QUOTE]

Regarding course of fire, I bolded in hopes that is what I thought you meant. No, I'm not being a grammar nazi. Just wanted to be sure. :)

Sounds like fun, I will try to make it.

1-M-42
04-12-2012, 5:35 AM
I'll be there, time to try the Swiss M-1911

sacto929
04-12-2012, 5:38 AM
I'll be there, too.

OldShooter32
04-12-2012, 7:45 AM
Me too! Save me a target with a 6' x-ring!

pro-nra
04-12-2012, 7:50 AM
I'll be there, time to try the Swiss M-1911
I might shoot my 1911 too. This match should work for the 1911s as the minimum distance is at 300 yards which is just 25 meter short of the 300 meter minimum on the 1911s. I tried shooting at the chickens silhouette @ 200 meters but was shooting high so I had to do a Kentucky elevation and aimed for the pedestal. Are you shooting GP11s or did you worked out a reload? GP11 for me.

Let's all pray that it will not rain like it did on the Garand match and nothing but sunshine.

Rob when is the next match after this one? We are starting a little later this year than last year. IIRC we started in one cold February morning last year. We can all remember how cold it was in the pit pulling the targets.

Pthfndr
04-12-2012, 6:28 PM
Rob, you should shoot vintage with me this weekend at the 3x600. I'm expecting to have the only wooden gun out there, unless Paul shows up with his Swede again.

Wish I could. I already committed to shooting the NCPPRC steel match on Sunday. I thought it was the next weekend, but this is one of those weird months where the 3rd Sunday is the day after the 2nd Saturday.

Pthfndr
04-12-2012, 6:31 PM
[QUOTE=Pthfndr;8387062]Next one is in 2 WEEKS on Sunday April 29, 2012

I have email addresses for some of you who are interested, but not all. If you think you might attend shoot me an email with Vintage Military Long Range Match in the subject and I will add you to the email group for this event. That will be used not only for further notices, but for sending out match results.


Vintage Military Rifle Long Range Match

For more info contact Rob Thomas – robertthomas2@comcast.net or 530-644-3925 after 6 pm

Course of Fire:
2 Sighter shots and 10 rounds for record in 12 minutes each at 300, 500 and 600 yards. Unlimited Sighter shots and 10 rounds for record in 15 minutes at 800 yards. All shot from the prone position.
We will shoot in 3 relays. Relay 1 will shoot while relay 2 scores for them and Relay 3 pulls targets, then rotate through the relays as we move from firing line to firing line.
All competitors who shoot are expected to pull a target in the target pits and to score.
QUOTE]

Regarding course of fire, I bolded in hopes that is what I thought you meant. No, I'm not being a grammar nazi. Just wanted to be sure. :)

Sounds like fun, I will try to make it.

At the distances of 300 yards, 500 yards and 600 yards you will have 12 minutes of shooting time at each distance, to shoot 2 sighter shots and 10 shots for record at each distance. At 800 yards you get 15 minutes to do it.

bruceflinch
04-12-2012, 6:32 PM
^ Thanks!

17+1
04-16-2012, 9:31 AM
Rob, I saw your SUV yesterday when I was leaving range 12...didn't want to bug you in the middle of the match. You missed out man, good conditions. :D

0321jarhead
04-16-2012, 11:51 AM
I plan on being at this match with a K31. Looking forward to it. I plan on shooting some GP11 on this match. Anyone have good results at these distances with this ammo or would it be better to use reloads?

pro-nra
04-16-2012, 3:17 PM
IIRC, Rob the OP shoots his K31 at this match all time with good results but he shoots with a scope.

On this match I'll shoot either a 1917, 1911 Swiss or my new to me CG M96. It does not make a difference what I shoot as I equally suck at all but I sure have a good time doing it.:D

0321jarhead
04-16-2012, 3:52 PM
Perhaps then I should use the scope method. My eyes aren't what they once were. Either way, I intend to have a good time as well. :oji:

Pthfndr
04-16-2012, 5:30 PM
It's tough to beat the GP11 for accuracy, even with hand loads.

You can read this thread I did from a few years ago where I shot my K31 out to 1000 yards :)

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=148708

Here's a picture of the target

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/Pthfndr/Targets/20090126_4.jpg

SKSer45
04-16-2012, 6:12 PM
wow you guys get paid to shoot those targets! awesome! Damn I need to move to SAC valley. You guys have all the fun there!

pro-nra
04-16-2012, 7:12 PM
wow you guys get paid to shoot those targets! awesome! Damn I need to move to SAC valley. You guys have all the fun there!
Get paid? Okay you might get a little price money if you place in the match but I assure you it will not be enough to offset cost of your ammo and your fuel. However, the match is priceless fun.:cool:

0321jarhead
04-17-2012, 7:45 AM
Pthfndr...Thanks for sharing the pic. I read your past article, good write up for all to know.

peter95
04-17-2012, 7:52 AM
Wish I could be there... maybe next time.
Im bit too far to have all this fun... =(

Pthfndr
04-21-2012, 3:45 PM
bump

pro-nra
04-26-2012, 7:43 AM
Well I've loaded up 100 rounds of ammo ready for our first match for the year on Sunday. I hope I do better than my mediocre performance on the silhouette last Saturday.

I wonder if the Bay Are crew is coming?:confused:

1-M-42
04-26-2012, 9:00 AM
Juanito, what should I shoot, K-31 with glass or the M-1911....????

pro-nra
04-26-2012, 9:33 AM
Well with glass you will definitely get a better score but not the same as iron. My K31 with glass is scary accurate but will not shoot it at a match as I like shooting irons. So between the two I would go for the 1911.

The silhouette match Saturday was a disaster for me with the 1911. I just need more time to practice that notched leaf sight. I sure got spoiled with the American peep sight. Might shoot one of my M1917 maybe my Winchester.

KnowFear
04-26-2012, 7:04 PM
It's been decades since I had stopped shooting, and have just recently started shooting again (Appleseed in Feb, rifleman score with the 22, not quite up to rifleman score with the centerfire...), but nothing past 100 yds. Although I understand bullet drop, clicks, and so on, I have no practical experience.

So, on with the stupid questions...

What is involved in "scoring the targets"? What does "pulling the targets" mean?

How does one sight in? I have a cheap spotting scope, but can't imagine it being useful past a few hundred yards....

1-M-42
04-26-2012, 8:01 PM
for our matches there are three relays. Shooter, spotter, target puller. When you pull targets you are down in the "pit", concrete bunkers. Target frames are on pulleys. Every shot on "your" target, you pull, place a score disc and a value marker, then run it back up. The spotter scores the target via spotting scope when it's run back up. Pulling targets is really a blast, you get the hang of it really quick and the bullets cracking over your head into the berm is a very special feeling....(no worries, perfectly safe:eek:) There are a couple videos someplace in the forum and on Youtube, check them out. Only way to get experience is to come out, watch one or just jump right in. The vintage military group (silhouette and long range) are really good folks, matches are lots of fun and very low key.

pro-nra
04-26-2012, 8:04 PM
It's been decades since I had stopped shooting, and have just recently started shooting again (Appleseed in Feb, rifleman score with the 22, not quite up to rifleman score with the centerfire...), but nothing past 100 yds. Although I understand bullet drop, clicks, and so on, I have no practical experience.

So, on with the stupid questions...

What is involved in "scoring the targets"? What does "pulling the targets" mean?

How does one sight in? I have a cheap spotting scope, but can't imagine it being useful past a few hundred yards....

Since you are new, just show up with your rifle, mat and if you have it a good spotting scope and worry don't worry about the small details as I'm sure Rob will pair you up with another experience shooter.

There are three relay/person per shooting position. The person shoots, second person in the pit pulling and scoring target and the third person spots and read and record the score. You rotate after each relay is finished and everyone will get a chance to do pit duty. There is a tutorial on youtube about how to score a target.

If you've never been shot at in your life, this experience is as close to being shot at as you can get without the danger of being killed. Bullets pass just couple of feet above your head.

Pthfndr
04-26-2012, 8:11 PM
What is involved in "scoring the targets"? What does "pulling the targets" mean?

How does one sight in? I have a cheap spotting scope, but can't imagine it being useful past a few hundred yards....

No such things as stupid questions.

You can watch a good video one of the high power shooters did on how to pull and mark targets here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=270926

Come on out and have fun. We're real low key and just out there to have fun.

KnowFear
04-27-2012, 5:53 AM
Thanks for the info - the video was great,

Hope to see y'all there Sunday.

pro-nra
04-28-2012, 7:31 PM
Hope to see lots of you bright and early morning.

6mmintl
04-29-2012, 6:39 PM
Made it to the Sac Valley 300/500/600/800 military rifle long range prone match today with the Mauser in 7.62x39mm Lapua chamber, 25.5” 1x10" Krieger .300/.308 barrel, with 15X scope with mildot reticle.

300 yard load was 27.7 grains of RG (Radway Green) 4895 halfway up the neck and seated the 155 grain Lapua Scenar Palma bullet to 2.480 .015" off the lands in Winchester cases. Estimated velocity is 2100 FPS. Conditions for the first match were perfect 80 Degrees with a 3-4 MPH 9-3 o’clock wind direction. 3 minutes up from my previous 200 yard elevation.

Took 2 sighters, both 10’s and went for record, X,X, 8 (squib load went low) 10, X,X,X,X,X,X, for a 98-8X



Moved to 500 yards with same load of 27.7 grains of RG (Radway Green) 4895 halfway up the neck and seated the 155 grain Lapua Scenar Palma bullet to 2.480 .015" off the lands in Winchester cases. Estimated velocity is 2100 FPS. Conditions for the second match were again perfect 80 Degrees with a 3-6 MPH 9-3 o’clock wind direction then a reversal right to left of 3 mph. 12 minutes up from my previous 300 yard elevation. Sighters were to tens and proceeded to shoot tens and liner nines with four windage changes of 1 moa or less in mild switching winds for a 91-1X

Moved to 600 yards with same load of 28.1 grains of RG (Radway Green) 4895 halfway up the neck and seated the 155 grain Sierra Palma bullet to 2.380 . in Winchester cases. Estimated velocity is 2200 FPS. Conditions for the third match were again perfect 80 Degrees with a 3-6 MPH 9-3 o’clock wind direction then a couple of boils thrown in and back to 3-6 mph. 21 minutes up from my previous 300 yard elevation. Sighters were 10/x and proceeded to shoot tens and liner nines with three windage changes of 1 moa or less in mild switching winds for a 94-1X

Moved to 800 yards with same load of 28.1 grains of RG (Radway Green) 4895 halfway up the neck and seated the 155 grain Sierra Palma bullet to 2.380 . in Winchester cases. Estimated velocity is 2200 FPS. Conditions for the forth match were again perfect 80 Degrees with 6-9 MPH 9-3/11-5/8-2/3-9/2-7 o’clock wind directions with a couple of boils thrown in and back to 3-6 mph 9-3. 34 minutes up from my previous 300 yard elevation. Sighters with 135 Sierra’s were not promising due to light charge and went with 155’s, sighters were 7/10 and proceeded to shoot all over the place due to switching winds/reversals using 3-8 MOA windage with three misses, also believe I made two over and two under corrections for windage. Ended with a 64-1X

Total score was 347-10X, X400. Open class winner shot 372, I believe I came in 3rd out of 7 open class shooters

The gun continues to shoot sub MOA with 155’s out to 500, 1 MOA out to 600 yards and 40% of the shots at 800 were 1 MOA elevation but left or right of center. The .4 grains heavier charge of RG4895 and 155 sierra’s shot better then the Lapua’s as the Lapua’s have more bearing surface and show more pressure and vertical signs. I now think I can go .2 to .4 grains heavier with the 155 Sierra’s. for 600-800.

Need to work on my wind doping for footballs at 800 yards.

Again, thanks to Kendog4570 for the excellent barrel mounting/chambering job he performed on this old warhorse.

Pthfndr
04-29-2012, 6:39 PM
Great match today. The weather was very good with almost no wind. Just enough at 800 yards let people know it isn't as easy as it seems to shoot long range - especially with iron sights on old military rifles.

26 people showed up to shoot. We had several first timers and from what could tell they all had fun and plan to be back. But probably with better ammo and their rifles zeroed a bit better.

High score for the day was Steve M in the open class shooting his Swedish M96 Mauser FSR rifle (target sights - not a scope) with a 372-10x out of a possible 400.

High score in the As Issued class was Vern H shooting his 1903A3 Springfield with a 361-3x.

Honorable mention goes to Mustang's son Ken B who shot a 358-2x with his Swiss 1911 in a class that had 3 1911s and a single K31.


The largest class was the Mosins with 6. Only a couple Garands today in the As Issued class. A reversal of what we've had in the last 3 matches.


Frank (6mmintl) was kicking butt in the open class with his VZ Mauser in 7.62x39 until we went 800 yards and found the limits of the cartridge.


Thanks to Sam and Bob (1-M-42) for helping run the firing line and the pits today. That's tough job at 600 and 800 yards as the rifles are harder pressed to to keep bullets on the target.

We all had a great time and everyone kept asking when the next one is so they could come back for more. As soon as I can get it scheduled word will go out to those on the email list and be posted here. All you C&R guys really need to make it out to these. It's just a ton of fun.

1-M-42
04-29-2012, 7:10 PM
Great match, and a wonderful way to kick off our season. 800 yards caught up to me and my Swiss M-1911. It did it's part, I didn't keep my part of the bargain. Congrats to Vern and Steve, they were lights out. Fell asleep when I got home, now I have to go clean the old Swiss rifle....

6mmintl
04-29-2012, 7:30 PM
Frank (6mmintl) was kicking butt in the open class with his VZ Mauser in 7.62x39 until we went 800 yards and found the limits of the cartridge.

Ah, Maybe we could have a 200/300/500/600 yard match in the future?

OldShooter32
04-29-2012, 7:54 PM
Great day all in all...other than all the sand in my hair deposited there while pulling target by a low round or two! Best people and a well-run, fun match that wrings out the shooter and the rifle. I will be back, and with a friend!

pro-nra
04-29-2012, 8:20 PM
Although my score did not reflect my enjoyment of the match, I still had a great time trying and can't wait for the next one. However, unless Rob can squeeze one more match before I leave the country mid June, that might have been the last long range match for me for a while.

Vern Hays been one fire the past couple of weeks first winning the silhouette match last Saturday and now the long range match As Issued.

It was nice to see new faces but sad I did not see some of the shooters that usually shoots this match.

sacto929
04-29-2012, 8:40 PM
Woohoo! Great match today!

Rob, thanks for the elbow pads and the bandage. I had ripped open my elbow at 500, as the gravel had been cleared out from my position and I was down to hardpan. The pads really saved me at 600 and 800.

I shot my first cradle-to-grave hand loads today. 175 SMK over 44.2 gr of H4895 in HXP brass. I think they might be a little slow because at 800 I was having to hold at 12 o'clock with my elevation set at 800 (limits of adjustment on the 03A3).

I had a great time and with some more development time on my loads hope to beat my score from today. At least my scores have improved every time out....:)

SilentScream
04-29-2012, 8:44 PM
... but sad I did not see some of the shooters that usually shoots this match...

must be church going folks

pro-nra
04-29-2012, 9:32 PM
I went to church too...my priority #1 before match.

KnowFear
04-30-2012, 6:15 AM
Sounds like you all had a great time - I am envious - just couldn't put everything together to make the trip (new rifle, new scope, blah blah...)

When is the next opportunity for a nice friendly low stress match like this one?

Also, I see a lot of hand-loading talk. Everything else being equal, what kind of results can one expect with run-of-the-mill surplus ball?

sacto929
04-30-2012, 7:44 AM
Sounds like you all had a great time - I am envious - just couldn't put everything together to make the trip (new rifle, new scope, blah blah...)

When is the next opportunity for a nice friendly low stress match like this one?

Also, I see a lot of hand-loading talk. Everything else being equal, what kind of results can one expect with run-of-the-mill surplus ball?

This was my first time with hand loads. Previously, I've used HXP mil-surp and it flew just fine.

eighteenninetytwo
04-30-2012, 12:57 PM
I have to be honest, hearing all this talk of handloads, and dope and how awesome I am hitting x number of X's, doesn't make me want to do this at all. I think rob's mention of low pressure fun matches rather sounds great, but I(and I suspect others) don't want to look like an *** next to captain handload and his high performing super scoped gadgetry.

1-M-42
04-30-2012, 1:39 PM
I have to be honest, hearing all this talk of handloads, and dope and how awesome I am hitting x number of X's, doesn't make me want to do this at all. I think rob's mention of low pressure fun matches rather sounds great, but I(and I suspect others) don't want to look like an *** next to captain handload and his high performing super scoped gadgetry.

Don't sweat it, the Vintage Long Range and Vintage Silhouette groups are pretty low key, none of us are crack eating spider monkeys. He was just trying out a custom rifle, needed range time. Come join us for a shoot, you'll be pleasantly surprised.

KnowFear
04-30-2012, 3:03 PM
I have to be honest, hearing all this talk of handloads, and dope and how awesome I am hitting x number of X's, doesn't make me want to do this at all. I think rob's mention of low pressure fun matches rather sounds great, but I(and I suspect others) don't want to look like an *** next to captain handload and his high performing super scoped gadgetry.

Haha! Hearing all this talk of handloads, and dope and how awesome I am hitting x number of X's MAKES me want to try it out.

That's probably because I don't mind looking like an idiot :) Not being afraid of looking like an idiot helps me figure out what I'm dong wrong faster!

SilentScream
04-30-2012, 3:11 PM
I have to be honest, hearing all this talk of handloads, and dope and how awesome I am hitting x number of X's, doesn't make me want to do this at all. I think rob's mention of low pressure fun matches rather sounds great, but I(and I suspect others) don't want to look like an *** next to captain handload and his high performing super scoped gadgetry.

Donít worry... I shot the match several times with 7.62x54R Russian Surplus Light Ball in a Russian Mosin, At 800 yards all shot were on paper.

1-M-42
04-30-2012, 4:14 PM
As for handloads, the only match I use those for is the silhouette match because FMJ and AP is not allowed due to the steel targets. On the long range match all I've ever used was M-2 HXP surplus for my U.S. rifles and GP-11 surplus for my Swiss ladies.

Yesterday there were several guys with Mosins, even an M-44 or two. I think they were all using either Com-Bloc surplus or some commercial stuff. They were on paper...for the most part :D Everyone had a blast, you keep hearing how low key it is....that's cuz it is

pro-nra
04-30-2012, 6:06 PM
I have to be honest, hearing all this talk of handloads, and dope and how awesome I am hitting x number of X's, doesn't make me want to do this at all. I think rob's mention of low pressure fun matches rather sounds great, but I(and I suspect others) don't want to look like an *** next to captain handload and his high performing super scoped gadgetry.

I would not pay too much attention to that "water cooler" talk as that's all that is. Most of us that shoot this and the silhouette match could care less if we win or even place. All we care about is doing what we all love to do and that is shooting.

Yes most of us handload with our closely guarded recipe (my secret recipe for 30-06: 52 gr of IMR 4064, 155 gr SMK Palma Match seated .005 off the rifling, CCI LR primer on pre 73 HXP brass ***caution don't try this load before working up to it as it is a hot load***). See how secret my load recipe is?

Don't worry about looking like an *** or whatever, I look like that at each match especially when the score is tallied and I see how dismal my performance. All that matter is I have tons of fun doing it.

Come on out for the silhouette match on the 19th and whenever the next long range match Rob will put out.

Pthfndr
04-30-2012, 6:41 PM
I have to be honest, hearing all this talk of handloads, and dope and how awesome I am hitting x number of X's, doesn't make me want to do this at all. I think rob's mention of low pressure fun matches rather sounds great, but I(and I suspect others) don't want to look like an *** next to captain handload and his high performing super scoped gadgetry.

Sorry, but you have the wrong out look on it. It's for fun. That's it. Yesterday I took along 2 of my scoped Swedes. But when I was talking with another shooter (who I also shoot tactical long range matches with) and he said he was shooting his No1 MkIII, I said the heck with it and shot my No4 Mk1 with surplus HXP ammo. Had a blast even though I was far from winning the match.

We had a few new guys with Mosins and surplus ammo. They struggled at 600 and 800 yards due to inexperience shooting at long range. But with some coaching - including from 6mmintl - we had them hitting paper. And they had a great time too!

Sure, some us try to find the best shooting surplus rifle we can find, because as Colonel Cooper said, accurate guns are interesting. But a big part of the fun is taking ANY mass produced vintage military rifle and seeing what it's really capable of. Learning it's foibles and nuances and wringing the most out of it - and having fun doing it.

There are tons of people on Calguns who shoot their surplus rifles at 50 or 100 yards and brag about how good it groups with this ammo or that ammo. But get them out at longer distances and they come in for a shock. It isn't as easy as a lot of people make it to be. But once they shoot long range they are hooked and want to come back.

You should just come out and give it a try. Nobody makes fun of anyone who struggles. We coach and help each other out, have fun, and at the end of the day it's all good.

6mmintl
04-30-2012, 7:19 PM
Hey eighteenninetytwo,

Its not a problem and dont feel intimidated.

I would be more then happy to help/equip and or coach you thru a match.

All you have to do is let me know when and what rifle your shooting and we can talk about basic stuff, maybe do a tuneup before the match with trigger work/shiming, etc.

I have extra equip so all you need is a rifle and trigger finger.

I can coach three new guys (three to a shooting position) if interested and Rob (Match director) can line me up on far end position so I dont bother anyone talking/coaching.

Frank

Let me know.

6mmintl
04-30-2012, 7:23 PM
Rob, maybe a shorter range match 200/300/500/600 would be better (more enjoyable) for a group of newguys teeming up with "Coaching/Mentor" Volunteers?

pro-nra
04-30-2012, 7:42 PM
I was thinking the other way 300, 600, 800 and then 1K (is just 200 yards more that what we are doing now). Now that could be really interesting in the pit with pebble showers...helmet required.:D

sacto929
04-30-2012, 7:47 PM
I've been shooting this match since it started in february 2011. When I laid down at 300 for my first string, that was the first time I'd shot any rifle larger than a .22, and that was 20 or so years earlier. The 03A3 I used (and still use), I carved out of a block of cosmoline given to me by my Dad. I used surplus HXP. 14 months later, I still can't wipe the smile off my face when I think of it!

You'll never now how much fun it can be unless you come out to try. Odds are you'll get hooked like the rest of us!

Mustang
05-05-2012, 6:14 AM
My two sons and I had a great time at the match. My younger son, Ken, was shooting a K31 and GP11 ammo and got a 358/2x, beating me by 13 in the Swiss rifles category.

My eldest son was shooting a 1909 Argy Mauser with Prvi ammo that didn't work out so well for him. He has done much better with the Argy using my handloads (40 grains of IMR4064 with a .311 SMK), but I stuck a case in my 7.65 sizing die and it is REALLY stuck. Hence the Prvi ammo. He is already talking about switching to Swiss.

In case anyone is interested, the entire match results...

Latigo
05-05-2012, 7:23 AM
That... is way cool Mustang! My son is near 6 now and I can't wait for the day that he outshoots me. :D Really!
I often get a sobering message from my Swiss rifles. For load data development we use a device that removes the human from the equation. When a rifle shoots consistent moa or even less at 100 yards on that device and I step up, go prone and shoot the same load at my target......... :rolleyes: Outshot by a device :(. It's sobering but it never takes the fun out of it for me. It just gives me a goal, and if I come closer to matching the darned thing in accuracy, I know that I'm progressing.
Never, ever pass on a shoot with your friends because of fear that you're going to get shown up. The only real competition is how you personally performed the last time...... so go try to outshoot yourself. :D You just might beat you.

1-M-42
05-05-2012, 8:33 AM
Lat, you should figure a way to take a road trip out West and shoot the next match! I'll buy lunch.

Latigo
05-05-2012, 8:46 AM
Thanks, and I'd really like to, but only one thing stops me. Not one Family member ever, ever goes anywhere unarmed. Least of all, California for me.
It would be a lot of fun to be able to shoot with guys nearer my own age.
My Sister and I have been armed for about as long as I can remember. We became legal carrying at 18. We both went through my Dad's course and were certified by the Sheriff.
Wish I could do it. I read here a lot and feel like I almost know a bunch of you. Great place, CalGuns.

bruceflinch
05-05-2012, 9:13 AM
Thanks, and I'd really like to, but only one thing stops me. Not one Family member ever, ever goes anywhere unarmed. Least of all, California for me.
It would be a lot of fun to be able to shoot with guys nearer my own age.
My Sister and I have been armed for about as long as I can remember. We became legal carrying at 18. We both went through my Dad's course and were certified by the Sheriff.
Wish I could do it. I read here a lot and feel like I almost know a bunch of you. Great place, CalGuns.

Well only one way to solve this problem...
CalGuns Camp N Shoot Roadtrip to Montana! :party:
It's only about 1000 miles each way....

But Summer of 2013, My 2012 Summer Vacation is already booked...

Latigo
05-05-2012, 9:27 AM
Well, there's 40 acres to camp on, and about 15 of it wooded with outside power and well hookup. 100, 200 and 500 yard range. :D
2013 would work. This summer is already planned. There's an airstrip just to the south of us.

1-M-42
05-05-2012, 9:27 AM
Latigo,

Don't forget though, not all of California is like the liberal enclaves! Even with all the negatives there's lots of cool stuff out here, you should plan a trip, I'll even guide you all.

Latigo
05-05-2012, 9:48 AM
I guess really the only things I know about California are what we see on TV.

Pthfndr
05-05-2012, 6:27 PM
Thanks, and I'd really like to, but only one thing stops me. Not one Family member ever, ever goes anywhere unarmed. Least of all, California for me.
It would be a lot of fun to be able to shoot with guys nearer my own age.
My Sister and I have been armed for about as long as I can remember. We became legal carrying at 18. We both went through my Dad's course and were certified by the Sheriff.
Wish I could do it. I read here a lot and feel like I almost know a bunch of you. Great place, CalGuns.

Do you have your own plane that you could fly out in? The Rancho Murrieta airstrip is only 3.5 miles from the range (directly down range from the 1000 yard range in fact :) )

You could fly into there, we pick you up and bring you to the range. We shoot all day for a day or 2, then you fly back. Our range is CCW friendly. And concealed means concealed, right? If we don't see it you're good to go :)

Mustang
05-05-2012, 6:35 PM
The only real competition is how you personally performed the last time...... so go try to outshoot yourself. :D You just might beat you.


Thanks, Latigo and I agree completely with your sentiment. I'm really only trying to shoot better than I did the last time.