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View Full Version : AR15 mags on closed bolt?...Magnetic BB tools?


mase1b
04-11-2012, 6:26 PM
I'm a new AR-15 (S&W M&P15) owner, so I apologize if this is a noob question...When I try to insert a loaded mag while the bolt is closed, it doesn't seem to want to seat properly. I have to push pretty hard in order to get the catch to "click". Is this normal, or is there a problem with the rifle?

It doesn't happen with empty mags, or with the bolt open; and it is the same for both the factory mag, and my aftermarket 10/30 Pmags.

If this is how ARs normally function, that's fine, but it does take the tactical reload out of the equation (i.e. topping off with a fresh mag when there is a lull in the action.)

Thanks in advance for any advice!

PS- I found some little magnetic bullet button tools online. They say they are CA legal...well actually they just say they aren't illegal. Because they are magnetic, they aren't a "permanent" part of the gun, but if you leave them on they function just like a mag release. Sort of a weird gray area. So, any idea on if those are legal or not?

MrPlink
04-11-2012, 6:44 PM
I'm a new AR-15 (S&W M&P15) owner, so I apologize if this is a noob question...When I try to insert a loaded mag while the bolt is closed, it doesn't seem to want to seat properly. I have to push pretty hard in order to get the catch to "click". Is this normal, or is there a problem with the rifle?

It doesn't happen with empty mags, or with the bolt open; and it is the same for both the factory mag, and my aftermarket 10/30 Pmags.

If this is how ARs normally function, that's fine, but it does take the tactical reload out of the equation (i.e. topping off with a fresh mag when there is a lull in the action.)

Thanks in advance for any advice!

PS- I found some little magnetic bullet button tools online. They say they are CA legal...well actually they just say they aren't illegal. Because they are magnetic, they aren't a "permanent" part of the gun, but if you leave them on they function just like a mag release. Sort of a weird gray area. So, any idea on if those are legal or not?


1) thats not odd, esp with blocked off mags. Even with non-blocked off mags its not that odd. Try giving them a really good smack in there. This is also one reason folks that own std capacity mags dont always load them to full capacity (ie 28rds instead of 30)

And seriously, tactical reloads plus mag locks and 10rd mags ='s fail

2)
There is no grey area here.

the mag magnets are not illegal in and of themselves. IF you were to put one a centerfire AR in California, and the rifle had "evil features" (pistol grip, folding stock, flash hider etc etc etc) then that would make the rifle an illegal assault weapon.

IF you were to use one on a rifle that had NO evil features, then it is fine.

Bottom line, do not put it on a centerfire rifle with evil features while in state.

RoundEye
04-11-2012, 7:04 PM
As MrPlink said the magnets are a no..no on center fire rifles with features in Kaliforniastan.

As for the mags that is interesting. I've heard of ame rifles having issues with PMAGs as they're not mil spec, but if it's also an issue with mag that came with the rifle, I don't know what to tell you. Perhaps a quick call to S&W will resolve your questions.

TheExiled
04-11-2012, 7:19 PM
The mag issue seems to me like it has to do with the mag block. You already stated that it doesnt have this issue when empty, so try with, say, 9 rounds and see what happens. Seems like some blocked mags are tighter than others, but as long as it can seat without damage there shouldnt be any issues

NSR500
04-11-2012, 7:24 PM
:popcorn:

shark92651
04-11-2012, 7:25 PM
You can also just lock the bolt back before inserting the magazine. It's a common "problem" but one that has an easy workaround. I have a Glock 30 that has a magazine that holds 10 rounds of .45 ACP. Using a Maglula I can force a 10th round in there and I can even force it to lock into the magwell, but I cannot rack the slide at all - so I always download it to 9 rounds. We get people all the time that want to return blocked PMags because they have a hard time inserting a fully loaded magazine on a closed bolt. The problem is, if you show me a blocked 10 round magazine that has plenty of give to insert easily on a closed bolt, and one can usually shove in an 11th round into that magazine. Which problem would you rather have?

Cucv
04-11-2012, 8:24 PM
my AR does the same with p mags and a NFA polymer lower and a Stag 1H upper.

Mossy Man
04-11-2012, 9:33 PM
this is common on lots of rifles

my mini 14 has the same problem

i typically load 18

calif 15-22
04-12-2012, 9:33 AM
I'm a new AR-15 (S&W M&P15) owner, so I apologize if this is a noob question...When I try to insert a loaded mag while the bolt is closed, it doesn't seem to want to seat properly. I have to push pretty hard in order to get the catch to "click". Is this normal, or is there a problem with the rifle?

It doesn't happen with empty mags, or with the bolt open; and it is the same for both the factory mag, and my aftermarket 10/30 Pmags.

If this is how ARs normally function, that's fine, but it does take the tactical reload out of the equation (i.e. topping off with a fresh mag when there is a lull in the action.)

Thanks in advance for any advice!

PS- I found some little magnetic bullet button tools online. They say they are CA legal...well actually they just say they aren't illegal. Because they are magnetic, they aren't a "permanent" part of the gun, but if you leave them on they function just like a mag release. Sort of a weird gray area. So, any idea on if those are legal or not?

I have the same problem on my Daniel Defense V4. I store my gun with the bolt back so when I install the mag full (10 rnds) there are no issues. Hit the bolt release and you are good to go. You can force it in with the bolt forward but why do that when you can lock the bolt back.

As a side note, I have a bunch of 10/20 blocked from Riflegear (GREAT source for Pmags by the way). Very high quality and top notch customer service.

As far as that "Little Magnetic Bullet Button Tool" I would shy away from that. Hate to see you get into hot water at the range or if pulled over going to or from. I got one of these from Riflegear (another blatent plug for a great supplier). Wrist strap keeps it very handy,

http://www.riflegear.com/p-511-raddlock-tool-wlanyard.aspx

Army
04-12-2012, 9:52 AM
That's normal. With the bolt closed, the top round touches the carrier. You need more force to push all the ammo down into the magazine before it seats.

Best solution: Lock the bolt back first.

Cucv
04-12-2012, 11:36 AM
sounds like a normal thing!

DinoPJR
04-12-2012, 1:00 PM
The magnetic tools are great for if you go out of state or just for SHTF. I got one tucked away.

SURVIVOR619
04-12-2012, 1:01 PM
The problem is, if you show me a blocked 10 round magazine that has plenty of give to insert easily on a closed bolt, and one can usually shove in an 11th round into that magazine. Which problem would you rather have?

This is good advice!:oji:

LikeAllGuns
04-12-2012, 1:18 PM
I say use your gun and the mags will start to fit closed bolt..

New guns will loosen up after use..

I can load any one of my ar's bolt closed or open.. fully loaded mag or not..

the86d
04-12-2012, 1:24 PM
I actually tried out a "convertible BB", and tried every adjustment I could think of to get the mags to seat with the bold closed, and it was much more difficult.

I put the regular BB back on because I could not get the MAGWELL LOCK in without bending (with key-twist-MAJOR-force) the mag-catch, or get mags to seat without almost forcing them in HARD with the bold closed.

My problem was the convertible BB, yours may be the mag-block.

chead
04-12-2012, 1:24 PM
The problem is, if you show me a blocked 10 round magazine that has plenty of give to insert easily on a closed bolt, and one can usually shove in an 11th round into that magazine. Which problem would you rather have?

Exactly. Open the bolt or give it a good whack. You're not going to break it.

bigdawg86
04-12-2012, 1:26 PM
CENSORED

Chaos47
04-12-2012, 1:38 PM
I have the magnetic mag "tool"... just because I wanted to have it. I have used it without issue as a tool (meaning for mag drop only!). I also know 98% of people here will say it's illegal, but let's be serious. I am sure than many people who have Radlocks have the very same opportunity to conveniently misuse their "California Legal" mag release when shooting somewhere where the chance of getting caught it low. I think that there is nothing wrong with having either, but it's up to the end user to keep their rifle legal... not the supplier of these "tools". This is one of those debates of semantics that can go on forever. I think it's a personal judgement call, and if you shoot responsibly and don't bring attention to yourself you shouldn't have run ins with LEO to begin with.

Wow advocating illegal use of out of state configuration of radlocks and admitting to illegally using a magnetic tool. You know it is against the rules here to post "information that can be construed to be illegal" right?


It is 100% illegal on a centerfire rifle with features. Once it is attached to the rifle it is part of the rifle. At that moment your rifle is illegally configured it doesn't matter if it is on for a second or a minute. Shooting or dropping mags. It is illegal.

Remember magazine locks are a work around of the law. IMO a general rule is if you make a work around for a work around you are probably back where you started and illegal.

bigdawg86
04-12-2012, 1:44 PM
CENSORED

HPGunner
04-12-2012, 1:54 PM
Issue on the mags: give it a good smack and after some time it will loosen up a little. If using blocked off mags check for that 11th round once in a while just to be safe. I like using AR Stoner 10 round mags from MidwayUSA. they don't look as cool but you know they 10 rounds only and they have just a bit of play to make it seat into the mag catch.

magnet tools that attach to your rifle are not legal - there is no grey area about it. you can use it as a tool to release a magazine - just don't leave it on the rifle.

Chaos47
04-12-2012, 2:32 PM
Whoa nelly, slow down. I didn't advocate anything illegal... I simply stated that any product such as the magmagnet, radlock, etc have to capacity to be used illegally and it is up to the end user to be a responsible law abiding gun owner. In true fashion the "Semantics" are already and issue... I used the term "mag drop" and that is being construed as illegal. If I pushed the bullet button with a bullet, gravity still works and the mag drops. I am a responsible gun owner that enjoys my right to bear arms, and I would never advocate anything illegal.

Whoa yourself!

Nice attempt to go back and edit your post, but it doesn't matter you are still advocating illegal use of both the radlock and magmagnet...

I have a hard time believing you that you where able to actuate the center stud of magmagnet and hold onto it at the same time without the magnet functioning and it becoming part of the rifle for any length of time. Like I said if for even a second it is attached to your rifle it is now in an illegal configuration.

(meaning for mag drop only!).

(meaning for magazine swap only, not leaving it attatched to my rifle, the tool not even leaving the grasp of my fingers !)

It does not matter if you all ways take it off before firing or you only use it to change magazines. When this device is used on a centerfire featured rifle it makes that rifle illegal.



I used the term "mag drop" and that is being construed as illegal.
Dropping a magazine with a bullet button and a tool is not illegal and I never said it was.

Using a magmagnet on a ceterfire featured rifle that is made legal by the use of magazine lock in California is illegal.

Using a radlock in out of state configuration on a ceterfire featured rifle in California is illegal.

From FAQ page (http://ar-magmagnet.com/faq.html) of Mag Magnet:
When can I use the Mag. Magnet™?
The mag magnet can be installed and left on your firearm if it is;
- a rimfire, most commonly .22LR
- a featureless build with no other evil features such as a pistol grip, flash suppressor, vertical fore grip, flare or grenade launcher, collapsible or folding stock, or thumbhole stock.
- outside the state of California
- an “assault weapon” registered with the CA DOJ.

Notice it does not say a magazine locked "BB" configured rifle!

Radlock (http://www.riflegear.com/p-470-raddlock-ar-series-magazine-lock.aspx)
Position two allows the AR Raddlock to be activated with a press of the finger, just like a standard magazine release button. Position two is perfect for shooting outside of California or when using a .22 rimfire upper. Never use position two inside California with a centerfire upper and any banned features installed on your rifle. Doing so would construct a banned assault weapon and is punishable by law.

In your mind you did not advocate anything illegal because YOU do not see it as illegal. Unfortunately you are wrong.

IBTL.

bigdawg86
04-12-2012, 3:00 PM
CENSORED

MrPlink
04-12-2012, 3:23 PM
I appreciate your insight, as I am not here to argue but there are differing opinions and everyone is entitled to them. Thank you for your time.

:grouphug:

this is not a matter of opinion, by definition you are are creating an illegal AW, even if it is for a split second.

There is no grey area here save for your lack of comprehension on how the law works.

IF (and I really hope you dont) honestly think what you are doing is within the legal construct of the PC I urge you to keep this practice to yourself and not post it on a forum less some other uninformed shooter get any bright ideas from you.

In addition, if you get caught I hope you have a good lawyer and werent counting on the CGF for any help.

bigdawg86
04-12-2012, 3:38 PM
Guys I am not trying to fool myself or anyone else into anything. It is my responsibility to keep my rifle legal. I know that my rifle was used legally. Magnetism or not. Split second or not. Radlock or not. I apologize for giving the impression that I am some vigilante that has no regard for the law. My apologies to the Calguns community for my negligence and gross disregard for all things legal. For the greater good of the Calguns community, I will delete/censor my previous posts as not to give the wrong idea to our impressionable youth.

MrPlink
04-12-2012, 3:47 PM
It is my responsibility to keep my rifle legal.

correct, but it is irresponsible to to illegally configure a firearm and argue that is in fact legal on a public forum which is FLOODED with new users (some of the vet users too :D) that are not up to speed on the mechanics of our PCs

chead
04-12-2012, 3:48 PM
Not to mention you can be sure the DOJ lurks here, at the very least.

MrPlink
04-12-2012, 3:51 PM
Not to mention you can be sure the DOJ lurks here, at the very least.

Id be more concerned about running into some DOY cowboy or overzealous LEO in person than I would having one track me done via calguns.

The FBI, well thats a different story :TFH:

mase1b
04-12-2012, 6:38 PM
Hey Calguns Gurus:

Thanks for your wise advice! I think I'm all straightened out now.
1) Seems like its normal for mags not to seat well on a closed bolt, which is a relief...now I don;t have to try and trouble shoot my rifle.
2) Mag Magnets sound like bad idea for use in CA.

Really sorry if I started a dust up over legal issues...seems like it got a little heated there for a second!

Not to start the argument again, but I do think there is an argument to be made, that a magnetic attraction does not make something "part of the firearm"; and I think the timing argument is dicey as well, I mean if hold a BB tool against the button too long, was it an AW for that time? What if a BB tool was held in place by gravity, would that then be "part of the firearm"?

That's more of a comment on a stupid law (think we all agree on that!), than arguing about what is/isn't legal. I get what Chaos and Mr Plink are saying though, and I don't feel like being THAT guy who goes around thumbing his nose at the law. That's why I asked!

Thanks again all!

bigdawg86
04-12-2012, 6:49 PM
Here is a PDF I pulled up after the fact... either way this article is a good read! :thumbsup:

http://www.gs2ac.com/flyers/2009/20091223awweaponsmodificationsmemo.pdf

DinoPJR
04-12-2012, 11:39 PM
I just use an actual bullet. no big deal here. More of a PIA on my AK than AR

greenbox
04-13-2012, 12:58 AM
The way I think about a bullet button tool is that generally if it's attached to the rifle in such a way that from general use, it will still be attached to the rifle and be able to actuate your bullet button, it's not legal.

Here's some situations:

1) Magnetic bullet button, it clips on and stays on, so it's NOT legal.
2) Bullet button tool that clips to your sling, it clips on and stays on, so it's NOT legal.
3) Bullet button tool that clips to your finger, it is not physically part of your rifle the way a sling or other tool is (like in the previous examples), so it's okay!
4) Bullet button tool that's on the tip of your magazine (http://www.andreottifirearms.com/img/franklin_armory/The-nub-800.jpg). It's clipped on and stays on, but since you can't use it when it's attached to your rifle, it's legal (you have to have it on multiple mags for it to actually be effective).
5) Bullet button tool that can stay in place with gravity. Unless you shoot 'gangsta' style I suppose this wouldn't be a problem as the tool would fall off once you start shooting.

sdfire
04-13-2012, 6:37 AM
I made a bullet button tool that attaches to one of my fingers. It works well and makes mag swaps pretty handy. I have pics on one of my threads. There is also bullets on keychains and such that work well. It's best to avoid magnets and tape when attaching things to your rifle for even a second.