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View Full Version : Best option for Saiga .223 magazines?


bighead
04-10-2012, 9:36 PM
I'm contemplating purchasing one of these but I've heard the magazines are expensive and the msa adapter just seems like a clusterf#ck.I also heard the promag magazines are garbage but the surefire's seem to work but their 30 a pop.Id love to convert one of these but the only thing stopping me is the mags.

Thanks for the input.

bighead
04-10-2012, 9:41 PM
http://www.krebscustom.com/RawPhotos/10-25-04/ktr03svltor.jpg

(pic related)

morthrane
04-10-2012, 10:03 PM
There's another AR adapter made out of steel, but I can't seem to find any contact info for the guy who makes them. From the descriptions, it needs less trunnion mutilation than the aluminum MSA adapter... but I guess that's all theory until I actually see one / figure out how to buy one.

Quiet
04-10-2012, 10:50 PM
Add US made parts for 922r compliance and modify it to use Galil magazines.

SURVIVOR619
04-11-2012, 5:47 AM
With either of those adapters, you have to be careful about being featureless because I haven't seen how they are capable of accepting some sort of bullet button. Do some searching and you'll see a couple of CalGunners running the Renegade Buck adapter but if I recall correctly, they were featureless setups.

Promags are not good at all. The bullet guide tab is its own piece and not part of the catch... It breaks off with the slightest of ease. They are $10 less expensive than the SGM mags, but not worth it if you want a fun, reliable day of shooting.

I've not drilled and installed a bullet guide on mine, though hear it's relatively simple to do. I use SGM mags and am content with that setup. I can attest that the SGM mags are excellent quality. Enjoy brother!

G-Solutions
04-11-2012, 7:10 AM
Promags are great.... if you want to practice malfunction drills :eek::facepalm:

In all seriousness - check auctionarms or gunbroker for the seller joespawnshop. He used to sell Saiga factory mags for approx $18 each - however, I'm not sure if he had or has any in .223.

The rifle itself works just as well as the 7.62x39. I had a student use it in Saiga Rifle Gunfighting awhile ago and I did not even realize that he was shooting another caliber until we were well into the course and I noticed the casings next to his position.

If you decide to install a bullet guide, keep in mind that the trunnion is hardened to Rc 45-48. It's not very hard, but you have to go very slow with both drill and tap and use plenty cutting oil such as tapmatic. Otherwise you can end up with a broken drill or tap - which is almost impossible to get out unless you have access to an EDM.

bighead
04-11-2012, 8:06 AM
Thanks for the input guys.The rifle will be featureless, I refuse to own an AK the won't take normal magazines.

BigfootHunter
04-11-2012, 10:59 AM
Here's a picture of my featureless using the MSA adapter. Considering going forward with the conversion, but I've installed a reworked G2 for non converted saigas in the meantime. Nice to be able to use all my pre-ban ar mags either way. If i didn't have those, I'd probably go with the galils and a bullet guide.

http://teambigfoothunter.com/Saiga223Featureless.jpg

HilaryForPresident
04-11-2012, 11:09 AM
I would stick to Saiga mags personally. The options of converting them to AR mags require in-depth changes to design of the rifle. Its much easier to sell it and get Keltec SU16. Its featureless, cheap, reasonably reliable.

SURVIVOR619
04-11-2012, 12:35 PM
Here's a picture of my featureless using the MSA adapter. Considering going forward with the conversion, but I've installed a reworked G2 for non converted saigas in the meantime. Nice to be able to use all my pre-ban ar mags either way. If i didn't have those, I'd probably go with the galils and a bullet guide.

http://teambigfoothunter.com/Saiga223Featureless.jpg

bigfoothunter, how do you like your tech sights? I installed some on my saiga recently but haven't had the chance to get some range time in since...?

(sorry OP for slight hijack)

morthrane
04-11-2012, 12:56 PM
Sorry to hijack your thread OP.

With either of those adapters, you have to be careful about being featureless because I haven't seen how they are capable of accepting some sort of bullet button. Do some searching and you'll see a couple of CalGunners running the Renegade Buck adapter but if I recall correctly, they were featureless setups.

Nice to be able to use all my pre-ban ar mags either way. If i didn't have those, I'd probably go with the galils and a bullet guide.

Renegade Buck, that's the screen name of the guy who makes the steel adapters-- now where does he hide online? :facepalm:

FWIW, like the OP, a featureless 5.56 AK using AR mags is the end goal... because I already have the AR mags in abundance. The cost of the adapter and machining would easily undercut the cost of buying an equivalent number of new Saiga, AK, or Galil 10 round mags.

Its much easier to sell it and get Keltec SU16. Its featureless, cheap, reasonably reliable.
I really like the SU16, but I seriously doubt its reliability under heavy sustained use. Saigas/AKs don't complain much even after dumping hundreds of rounds in a short period of time... and they don't cost as much as the SU16 with its sippy cup straw barrel.

The true easy answer is an AR15 converted to featureless, a step I've resisted because I'm acclimated to the pistol grip, and I actually like featureless Saiga's ergonomics. A featureless AK in 5.56 using AR mags would be the perfect compliment to my BB'd m4gery.

BigfootHunter
04-11-2012, 1:04 PM
bigfoothunter, how do you like your tech sights? I installed some on my saiga recently but haven't had the chance to get some range time in since...?

(sorry OP for slight hijack)

I'm not crazy about them if I'm honest. I am considering goin back to the regular sights. They're a little difficult to get just right on this application and the set screw needs to be tight for them to stay in place, which means you have to disturb them everytime you take the rifle down for cleaning. Quality is great, but implementation leaves much to be desired. For now they're still on though. /jack

Sippy straw barrel made me chuckle

SURVIVOR619
04-11-2012, 5:45 PM
^ Hmmm.. Good to know, thanks.

Maybe my hijacking will help the OP in some odd capacity. Thanks OP for being a good sport bro!

vintagedude88
04-11-2012, 6:57 PM
Two words: Tungsten Carbide

You use cheap tools, you get cheap results.

It took me only 10minutes to drill and tap the trunnion for the bullet guide. Most of that time was checking to make sure I was drilling in the right spot. If you buy the bullet guide kit from Dinzag, you'll get the tungsten carbide bit and tap you need to do it in a snap.

The Promags work fine only if you cut off that craptastic tab they use as a bullet guide. If you notice, the Saiga requires a bullet guide on the mag body. The factory ones hava a huge block of polymer on the front of the mag. No chance of that breaking, but the Promags have a thin piece that will most likely break off. So long as you install a bullet guide on the rifle and mod the Promags, you'll be fine.

Same two words apply for the MSA mag. If you don't have patience, skills and good tools, you'll get crappy results. Here's mine with the MSA mag.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/attachment.php?attachmentid=96876&stc=1&d=1304742799

I had the bullet guide with the modded Promags and it worked fine. Then I got the MSA adapter and found that with the MSA adapter the bullet guide was not necessary. So I sold the bullet guide, modded mags and tools to someone else and now he's happy that way.

Choose your option. Its cheaper and easier to use the modded Promags with the bullet guide. Just don't expect the Promags to be indestructable when you slam them on the ground.

Kamo850
04-11-2012, 7:11 PM
I red something about how the tapered 7.62 x 39 cartridge and funneled chamber improve feeding reliability of the AK. Any decrease in reliability using .223?

BigfootHunter
04-11-2012, 7:56 PM
I've got about 700 rounds down the range through mine without any memorable malfunctions, YMMV.