PDA

View Full Version : Walmart Required ID to Purchase Ammo


jim2342
04-09-2012, 1:13 PM
Walked into the Walmart in Kearny Mesa (San Diego) on Saturday to check out the ammo supply. They had a bunch of .45 ACP that I was interested in. I told the clerk "I'd like to get some ammo". She said "let me get the clerk with the key". Here is what followed.
Clerk: Who needs ammo?
Me: I do.
Clerk: I need to see an ID
Me: Why do you need to see an ID?
Clerk: It's the law.
Me: No, its not
Clerk: Yes it is, ATF told us its the law.
Me: The law is you cannot sell handgun ammo to a minor (I'm 57 years old and CLEARLY not a minor).
Clerk: ATF told Walmart we have to check ID's, it's the law.
Me: I don't care what BATFE told Walmart, it is not the law in California to require ID to purchase ammo. Is it a Walmart policy? (I've never been asked for ID when purchasing ammo at Walmart before)
Clerk: Yeah, whatever, do you want the ammo, I need the ID.
Me: Fine, here it is. (I give her my Retired Military ID, on which the DOB is on the back side, she never even turned it over to look).

Now granted, we're talking about a young girl, probably making minimum wage, who is just doing what she's told. But it really pissed me off when she kept telling me "it's the law, ATF says so".

Anyone else have any encounters like this with WallyWorld?

clutchy
04-09-2012, 1:20 PM
I think i've been asked once or twice.

I'm 31 but I usually pay w/ a CC so they ask for ID for that...

incredablehefey
04-09-2012, 1:21 PM
I have.

Its Walmart policy, dont agree then shop somewhere else. Its not like they keep track of anything.

Don29palms
04-09-2012, 1:21 PM
It is the law that you have to be 21 or older to buy handgun ammunition. The only way for the clerk to know you are over 21yo is to see your ID to verify that. Would you give a clerk at 7-11 the same crap for asking to see your ID to buy cigarettes or beer? If you would you're in the wrong.

Casual_Shooter
04-09-2012, 1:26 PM
Bought some ammo from Walmart a few weeks back. Wasn't asked for ID.

Markus
04-09-2012, 1:27 PM
welcome to walmart now get your **** and get out....

I have been asked sometimes and others not just depends on whos behind the counter. Its not like they record anything anyways they just look at it and hand it back to you.

jim2342
04-09-2012, 1:37 PM
I think some of you guys are missing the point. I could care less that they want to see my ID, I know they don't record any info.

The point is, if BATFE is telling Walmart to require identification to purchase ammunition, then they are once again overstepping the limits of the law and making their own rules. Where does it stop?

TheBest
04-09-2012, 1:38 PM
I've been asked every time. I don't look old, but they enter the birthday into the computer to make sure that it's been verified to let the transaction go through.

For my CC, I never show ID.

greg36f
04-09-2012, 1:43 PM
I think some of you guys are missing the point. I could care less that they want to see my ID, I know they don't record any info.

The point is, if BATFE is telling Walmart to require identification to purchase ammunition, then they are once again overstepping the limits of the law and making their own rules. Where does it stop?



It probably stops when you stop believing that some ATF agent actually TOLD this 18 y/o girl that it was required.

She probably heard it from a manager who heard it from his boss, who read it somewhere.

Get mad at Wal-Mart, not the ATF; at least on this one issue. There is plenty else to get mad at the ATF about.

aermotor
04-09-2012, 1:46 PM
It is the law that you have to be 21 or older to buy handgun ammunition. The only way for the clerk to know you are over 21yo is to see your ID to verify that. Would you give a clerk at 7-11 the same crap for asking to see your ID to buy cigarettes or beer? If you would you're in the wrong.

Exactly. Why is this thread even here....

Jerry1949
04-09-2012, 1:48 PM
I'm 63YO and if wally guy or gal is asking for ID to verify my age, because wally boss told them to because he's a pointed haired idiot, I'm pi$$ed. If BATF TOLD them to VERIFY age, fine for questionable persons but I am, by my sheer looks, far past being a minor.

If they DON'T ask for ID when I use a CC, I'm pissed. What friggin contridiction!

G60
04-09-2012, 1:48 PM
Should have picked up some midol while you were at it, you were acting like enough of a b----

echo6cavedog
04-09-2012, 1:49 PM
It could be worse. Don't know if FUD or not, my BIL (in L.A.) tells me he has to get fingerprinted to buy ammo.

Mr.1904
04-09-2012, 1:50 PM
I think some of you guys are missing the point. I could care less that they want to see my ID, I know they don't record any info.

The point is, if BATFE is telling Walmart to require identification to purchase ammunition, then they are once again overstepping the limits of the law and making their own rules. Where does it stop?

They always require ID to verify you're of legal age to buy ammunition. She was just doing her job.

Just like how every time you go to buy cigs or booze they're SUPPOSED to card you regardless, as stated above.

ATF told her so was probably skewed from 'ATF requires you verify age in order to buy ammo". Just show her the ID and go along with your daily life. Now, if it were 'Show me some Id so i can record your info on this list cause ATF told me so' than THAT would be a problem.

jim2342
04-09-2012, 1:50 PM
Exactly. Why is this thread even here....

This thread is here because I thought it was important enough to write about and that maybe it would provoke some intelligent thought on the subject. Sorry you disagree. Isn't that what a "Forum" is for?

G60
04-09-2012, 1:52 PM
It's illegal to sell handgun ammunition to anyone under 21. How are they supposed to verify that without asking for identification?

Don't give me this "I'm old" BS either, show the ID or gtfo.

jim2342
04-09-2012, 1:53 PM
I'm 63YO and if wally guy or gal is asking for ID to verify my age, because wally boss told them to because he's a pointed haired idiot, I'm pi$$ed. If BATF TOLD them to VERIFY age, fine for questionable persons but I am, by my sheer looks, far past being a minor.

If they DON'T ask for ID when I use a CC, I'm pissed. What friggin contridiction!

Thank you, someone gets it.

woods
04-09-2012, 1:56 PM
I was told at Walmart that they check id not just for minors but they didn't want illegal status migrant persons or known gang affiliated persons buying ammo from them. They didn't wasn't to see on the news someone was shot with ammo bought at Wall mart.

If they know you buy ammo all the time they stop checking.

They don't keep any info what's the harm? If anything happens it just helps their lawyers.

Plus they don't even have a black list it's a psychological thing. "Those who don't want to show id have something to hide" they say.

Mr.1904
04-09-2012, 2:04 PM
It could be worse. Don't know if FUD or not, my BIL (in L.A.) tells me he has to get fingerprinted to buy ammo.

I believe that's just in L.A. In city limits only? Don't quote me

BigDogatPlay
04-09-2012, 2:20 PM
The point is, if BATFE is telling Walmart to require identification to purchase ammunition, then they are once again overstepping the limits of the law and making their own rules.

And your proof of this is that a Wal-Mart employee told you?

I questioned an assistant store manager and he said it is a corporate policy to log a DOB into the point of sale terminal for ammo purchases. Wal-Mart has had major issues with CADoJ over the years, which is why they don't sell firearms in CA. The idea is to be able to demonstrate that they aren't selling ammo to minors to a CADoJ or BATFE auditor if they have to.

I find that when I pay for shotgun shells at the sporting goods register I am asked for ID, but when I check out elsewhere (such as the garden department yesterday morning) I am not. So it's hit and miss.

If it bugs you that much, buy elsewhere.

jeep7081
04-09-2012, 2:22 PM
Walked into the Walmart in Kearny Mesa (San Diego) on Saturday to check out the ammo supply. They had a bunch of .45 ACP that I was interested in. I told the clerk "I'd like to get some ammo". She said "let me get the clerk with the key". Here is what followed.
Clerk: Who needs ammo?
Me: I do.
Clerk: I need to see an ID
Me: Why do you need to see an ID?
Clerk: It's the law.
Me: No, its not
Clerk: Yes it is, ATF told us its the law.
Me: The law is you cannot sell handgun ammo to a minor (I'm 57 years old and CLEARLY not a minor).
Clerk: ATF told Walmart we have to check ID's, it's the law.
Me: I don't care what BATFE told Walmart, it is not the law in California to require ID to purchase ammo. Is it a Walmart policy? (I've never been asked for ID when purchasing ammo at Walmart before)
Clerk: Yeah, whatever, do you want the ammo, I need the ID.
Me: Fine, here it is. (I give her my Retired Military ID, on which the DOB is on the back side, she never even turned it over to look).

Now granted, we're talking about a young girl, probably making minimum wage, who is just doing what she's told. But it really pissed me off when she kept telling me "it's the law, ATF says so".

Anyone else have any encounters like this with WallyWorld?

Same thing happen to me recently at Walmart in Chino Hills.

Asst manager asked for i/d. I asked if I looked under 18yrs old? Asst replied it wasn't relevent. I told him I was 42yrs, clearly over 18yrs. **** I don't even get carded at the bar nor store, but yet I am carded for ammo? Asst replied it was Walmart policy.

After I purchased the ammo, I asked what my DOB was? Asst didn't know. Which meant it was done for the camera's more than anything.

Update: I called the Chino Hills Walmart. Spoke to a manager "Lisa". She said they are aware it's not a law, she will post a sign saying it's a Walmart policy to request i/d on ammo purchased regardless of age. She also said only 5 employees can sell ammo. They all had to take a class on selling ammo and got certified. Thus, the reason you wait for a clerk to come and not always can the clerk that is nearby sell it.

Chach
04-09-2012, 2:49 PM
Some of you guys need to lighten the hell up. She was just doing her job and asking for ID, which for normal people is a pleasant and simple 3 second exchange. Her boss probably told her that if anyone questions it, just tell them it's the law. But instead of taking a high road, smiling and saying, "Sure, here you go." you decide to be a major ***, drop trou and take a huge stinking crap on the day of a girl that's working for minimum wage and just trying to get through her horrible day of dealing with old geezers with holier than thou attitudes. Seriously, lighten up Francis.

You - :oji:
Normal people - :facepalm:

winnre
04-09-2012, 3:01 PM
It's also VISA/MASTERCARD policy that the stores NOT require you to show ID. They are supposed to match signatures ONLY. They can get in trouble and lose their contract with Visa/MC for asking. But they all do.

chillincody
04-09-2012, 3:01 PM
I have only been id for pistol calibers which is silly because I was buying them for a friends 9mm rifle .and i buy rifle rounds (.556) for my ar pistol without being id pretty pointless policy lol

MyNamesMeToo
04-09-2012, 3:08 PM
never had to show id for the Wallyworld in Foothill Ranch (South OC). the older gentleman that runs the ammo counter looks at me and says, I am sure you're over 21 and never asks for id. not sure if i should take that as a compliment or is he calling me old?

and OP i think you're getting worked up over nothing. can't fault the youngster for trying to just do her job. whether she is slightly misinformed or not, she means no harm.

Quiet
04-09-2012, 3:15 PM
Wal-Mart asking to see valid ID is their policy to ensure they are complying with Federal law [18 USC 922 (b)(1)] and with the "Responsible Firearms Retailer Program" (http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/partnership/partnership.shtml) agreement they made with Mayors Against Illegal Guns.


18 USC 922
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;


RESPONSIBLE FIREARMS RETAILER PARTNERSHIP: (http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/partnership/partnership.shtml)
A 10-Point Voluntary Code
1. Videotaping the Point of Sale for All Firearms Transactions. Participating retailers will videotape the point-of-sale of all firearms transactions and maintain videos for 6 months to deter illegal purchases and monitor employees.

2. Computerized Crime Gun Trace Log and Alert System. Participating retailers will maintain a computerized log of crime gun traces relating to the retailer. Once the program is in place, if a customer who has a prior trace at that retailer attempts to purchase a firearm, the sale will be electronically flagged. The retailer would have discretion to proceed with the sale or stop the sale.

3. Purchaser Declaration. For sales flagged by the trace alert system, participating retailers will ask purchasers to fill out a declaration indicating that they meet the legal requirement to purchase the firearm.

4. Deterring Fake IDs. Participating retailers will only accept valid federal- or state-issued picture IDs as primary identification. Retailers will utilize additional ID checking mechanisms.

5. Consistent Visible Signage. Participating retailers will post signage created by the Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership to alert customers of their legal responsibilities at the point-of-sale.

6. Employee Background Checks. Participating retailers will conduct criminal background checks for all employees selling or handling firearms.

7. Employee Responsibility Training. Participating retailers will participate in an employee responsibility training program focused on deterring illegal purchasers. The Responsible Firearms Retailer Partnership will create an online training system based on Wal-Mart's training program.

8. Inventory Checking. Participating retailers will conduct daily and quarterly audits. Guidelines will be based on Wal-Mart's firearms audit check procedures.

9. No Sales Without Background Check Results. Participating retailers would prohibit sales based on "default proceeds," which are permitted by law when the background check has not returned a result within 3 days.

10. Securing Firearms. Participating retailers will maintain firearms kept in customer accessible areas in locked cases or locked to racks.

repubconserv
04-09-2012, 3:22 PM
It may be policy, but some at walmart are smart enough to figure out that a 55yr old (my dad) is not under 21 when he buys hand gun ammo. Last time I went to wal mart for 22lr the guy that rung me up remembered me from times past and didn't ask. (I am 19 so it's not totally obvious that I am 18 or over)

triggatronic
04-09-2012, 3:26 PM
Wow, really? Takes a few seconds to take out your id but even a greater amount of effort to make a stink over someone doing their job. I just bought some ammo from Walmart out here in OC, as soon as I showed the clerk my id he grabbed my ammo, rang me up and I was out the door. Smooth and simple.

sd_fox_racer
04-09-2012, 3:31 PM
just show id 3 seconds if that no need to get upset or make your and the person helping you day bad over a policy they have. this is how it usually works out for me when i buy ammo at wally world chula vista both of them and the palm ave location.

me: can i get some federal 45acp, and 9mm ammo please.
clerk: sure, can i see some id
me: sure, here you go.
clerk: thank you, and have a nice day shooting stuff.

end of story

triggatronic
04-09-2012, 3:36 PM
me: can i get some federal 45acp, and 9mm ammo please.
clerk: sure, can i see some id
me: sure, here you go.
clerk: thank you, and have a nice day shooting stuff.

exactly...smooth and simple

CitaDeL
04-09-2012, 4:18 PM
exactly...smooth and simple

me: can i get some federal 45acp, and 9mm ammo please.
clerk: sure, can i see some id
me: No, I am not required to provide ID for this purchase, so I will just get my ammo somewhere else. Later.
clerk: thank you, and have a nice day shooting stuff.

This goes pretty smoothly too, and you don't spend your money with a retailer that is so eager to placate anti-gunners. If they ask, I don't buy.

woods
04-09-2012, 6:03 PM
Well I guess I heard my story from an employee not a manager if you got it from manager that's probably more credible I'm thinking that there's a lot of people that are not trained correctly and they just say whatever they have to say to try to try and make sense.

I think they call it big corporation disease good ideas at the top rarely trickle down to the bottom. Policy in some large companies reads like the tax code, long and to confusing for one man to know.

I do know that Walmart is forgiven for checking my id as long as they are 5 or more cents a round cheaper than the other place.

mallard
04-09-2012, 6:05 PM
i went to big 5 and the same thing happened to me , except they said it was store policy , I doubt its even store policy.

ExtremeX
04-09-2012, 6:14 PM
After I purchased the ammo, I asked what my DOB was? Asst didn't know. Which meant it was done for the camera's more than anything.

She also said only 5 employees can sell ammo. They all had to take a class on selling ammo and got certified. Thus, the reason you wait for a clerk to come and not always can the clerk that is nearby sell it.


The San Diego store doesnt even have that many people that can sell ammo.

The clerks there know me, I buy ammo all the time, I still get asked for ID. Its just their policy, not a big deal. Shes a nice lady plus the process takes seconds.

End of the day im just happy they sell ammo at prices that dont match Big5

huntercf
04-09-2012, 8:37 PM
I bought some ammo today at wally world and the register popped up a warning to check ID when the ammo was scanned, the cashier looked at me and pressed the go ahead button. I was actually hoping he would ask for ID, man I'm old.

Kid Stanislaus
04-09-2012, 8:58 PM
Bottom line is that Wal-Mart is a private business and they can make you fart into a paper bag to buy ammo if that's their policy. Who ever said life isen't fair sure as hell knew what he was talking about!;)

ClarenceBoddicker
04-09-2012, 9:05 PM
many years ago I used to buy ammo mail order with cash or money orders when I was under 18. People are getting all worked up over the wrong things. Why not get mad at the current artificially high price of ammo or why you can't buy cheap US military surplus ammo at the surplus stores, like back in the day when they didn't sell cheap Chinese junk as military. In some countries they are restricted from buying as much ammo as they can afford. If they want to buy a box, they have to turn in their old box of spent non reloadable Berdan shells. It would be very easy for CA to pass a bunch of anti-ammo tax ammo like CRV on drink containers, require a DROS to buy ammo & to limit how much you can buy a one time.

Bill Carson
04-09-2012, 9:18 PM
First of all Wal-mart is consistently inconsistent with their sellling of ammo and even their signage of laws regarding selling ammo. They all do not have the same sign and the signs they have are confusing. Shotgun rifles and what not. Always bring your I.D. just in case they ask and if they do ask then either present it or walk away. Do not engage the employee with a debate over state or federal laws. Do not ask to speak to a manager or a district manager or email their legal department. You will either get unsatisfactory or no response.

tabrisnet
04-09-2012, 9:22 PM
Do I need to bring my .22 rifle to prove it's not for a handgun? Should i need to show ID to buy .308 for an AR-Pistol ? I have a feeling this "illegal to sell handgun ammo to under 21" to be just as bad as AB962, and about as enforceable.

There's always 9mm carbines...

NorCal Mtn Flyer
04-09-2012, 10:18 PM
Then WalMart policy is inconsistent, at best. I have never been asked for ID in any WalMart in several states, and I do buy a fair amount.
I usually get the ammo from an associate, throw it in my cart, proceed to my grocery shopping, and pay for the ammo on the way out- with my groceries. Never been asked for any ID...

Gunlawyer
04-09-2012, 10:20 PM
I just bought a lot of ammo at wallyworld today and no ID requested. I'm 41. I think you just got a bad employee or good employee and I got the bad one (assuming that it's their policy to ID). Either way i agree if ATF told them this tHen that's wrong but my guess is it's just their policy and they say ATF to deter people from pushing issue. If unhappy with that store go somewhere else. That's what I'd do.

ColdDeadHands1
04-10-2012, 12:41 AM
This is why I get a kick out of no ID being required to vote because it "disenfranchises" certain government created "classes" of people. While out shopping last weekend, I had to produce my drivers license about 5 times. To buy a burger at a restaurant with a credit card, at the store to buy beer, at some other store to use a debit card, etc.

Wally World must verify you are at least 21 to buy ammo. Even if you're 57, it's the routine the brainless clerks are in. Get over it. It's their job to make sure you're 21. Why should they take a risk deciding who looks old enough or not.

We show our ID (drivers license mostly) ALL THE TIME except where it really matters, voting for the next idiot to rule over us. In that case the government hates ID. They need as much fraud, illegals, multiple votes, dead people voting as possible to ensure they stay in power over us serfs for a few more years.

DrDavid
04-10-2012, 12:56 AM
It's also VISA/MASTERCARD policy that the stores NOT require you to show ID. They are supposed to match signatures ONLY. They can get in trouble and lose their contract with Visa/MC for asking. But they all do.

I refuse to show ID.. Everyone takes the credit card without a fuss (more or less).. But, it's the hill I'm perfectly willing to die on. :)

DrDavid
04-10-2012, 1:01 AM
In some countries they are restricted from buying as much ammo as they can afford. If they want to buy a box, they have to turn in their old box of spent non reloadable Berdan shells.
I'd like to know more.. which country is that?

ColdDeadHands1
04-10-2012, 1:01 AM
I wrote "See ID" on the back of my cards in lieu of signing them. Most clerks actually look at this and ask for my ID. This way if I lose them, maybe the thief would be turned down when trying to buy something.

I do not mind showing my ID. What is the big deal with it?

DrDavid
04-10-2012, 1:05 AM
I wrote "See ID" on the back of my cards in lieu of signing them. Most clerks actually look at this and ask for my ID. This way if I lose them, maybe the thief would be turned down when trying to buy something.

I do not mind showing my ID. What is the big deal with it?

Your credit card is invalid. Your cardholder agreement says you must sign the card, and if you don't, it's invalid.

A contract is a contract. You should follow its terms, not just what you think is correct.

ColdDeadHands1
04-10-2012, 1:11 AM
Your credit card is invalid. Your cardholder agreement says you must sign the card, and if you don't, it's invalid.

A contract is a contract. You should follow its terms, not just what you think is correct.

My credit card works just fine. And this gives me a small level of protection against someone else using my card. Thanks though.

drifter2be
04-10-2012, 1:23 AM
Way to go, giving a young minimum wage employee crap over something they have no control over...You feel like a big man now? She obviously told you it was a policy she was required to enforce, you were obviously bothered by it enough to give her grief over it, but not enough to not buy from there??? I will never understand the need of people to make the lives of piss-ant employees making garbage wages harder, when doing so accomplishes nothing that talking to someone in management would.

Dutch3
04-10-2012, 5:40 AM
I have never been asked for ID buying ammo at WalMart.

I have been asked "Is this for a handgun or a rifle?", to which I always reply, "rifle".

Maybe if I said "Handgun", they would ask for ID. I'm 49, so maybe not.

MA5177
04-10-2012, 5:54 AM
Jesus dude, just show the poor girl your ID and get your ammo and go! Would you feel better if you got the poor girl fired? Just because you know the california laws better than some girl working behind the counter doing what her boss tells her doesnt mean you have to be right ALL the time.

REH
04-10-2012, 8:29 AM
This is just a company policy to cover there a**. The are bars in Hawaii that will ask everyone for an ID....................I'm 64

BBJohnnyT
04-10-2012, 8:33 AM
I've shown them my ID when I've been asked a couple of times in the past. I figure it's their stupid store policy which I need to obey if I want it. But I just hold it myself, with my fingers shielding it from the overhead cameras. I also pay with cash. So I'm paranoid..

1859sharps
04-10-2012, 8:37 AM
I think some of you guys are missing the point. I could care less that they want to see my ID, I know they don't record any info.

The point is, if BATFE is telling Walmart to require identification to purchase ammunition, then they are once again overstepping the limits of the law and making their own rules. Where does it stop?

if the law says you can't sell to someone under 21, how else do you think they could established the buyer's age other than asking to see an ID?

as for being "clearly" over 21 and still being asked for your ID...that's just walmart doing some CYA and avoiding drama by treating everyone the same no matter what. making no assumptions.

I am really not seeing an issue of ATF or Walmart overstepping any limits, or making their own rules etc.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/licensees-conduct-of-business.html#interchangeable-ammo-sales

Hanse Davion
04-10-2012, 10:53 AM
Bottom line is that Wal-Mart is a private business and they can make you fart into a paper bag to buy ammo if that's their policy. Who ever said life isen't fair sure as hell knew what he was talking about!;)

That is exactly what came to mind when I read this thread. Albeit not in such fantastically humorous way.

winnre
04-10-2012, 10:55 AM
Have you noticed now that Walmart wants to check your receipt as you leave the store? I always ask for a duplicate receipt, pass the outrageously long line of sheep, and when they jump for my receipt, I hand them one and just keep on walking.

DrDavid
04-10-2012, 11:13 AM
Have you noticed now that Walmart wants to check your receipt as you leave the store? I always ask for a duplicate receipt, pass the outrageously long line of sheep, and when they jump for my receipt, I hand them one and just keep on walking.
You have no legal obligation to show a receipt for paid-for items. Other than at Sams Club and/or Costco (because you signed a membership agreement where you gave permission to check your receipts), stores are not legally allowed to require a receipt. You can CHOOSE to show it, but you have no obligation to.

Seriously.. All you "showing ID isn't a big deal, just do it" and "I show receipts!" and "I keep documentation on my gun" people are doing is allowing others to take your rights away from you. Stand up for your rights, and it won't be so easy to pass laws that take your rights away.

Hanse Davion
04-10-2012, 12:10 PM
stores are not legally allowed to require a receipt. You can CHOOSE to show it, but you have no obligation to.


I understand how once a contract has been completed (The exchange at the cash register), the products you bought have become your personal property, and requiring a receipt for such items is not legally allowed when leaving the store, but is there not an argument be made that the store is checking for items that you may not have paid for, and thus legally aren't yours?

DrDavid
04-10-2012, 12:17 PM
I understand how once a contract has been completed (The exchange at the cash register), the products you bought have become your personal property, and requiring a receipt for such items is not legally allowed when leaving the store, but is there not an argument be made that the store is checking for items that you may not have paid for, and thus legally aren't yours?
Just like the police can't go on fishing expeditions and search you, neither can the store. If they actually think (and have proof) that you stole an item, they can deal with that; but, attempting to look at and check my private belongings is too far.

I think the real issue is easier to understand if you swap some words: "Is there not an argument to be made that the police, by searching your home, are checking for crimes you might not have been charged with yet"...

jaybirdjtski
04-10-2012, 12:34 PM
A New Year's resolution of mine................I will not shop at WalMart! Period.

This dovetails with another resolution.............don't knowingly buy anything made in China! If the TV breaks I'll buy used

I did drive by a WalMart the other day and saw a Ford pickup in the parking lot with a giant American flag decal on the rear window. Thought it to be a bit oxymoronic. Ranks up there with the phrases like "Congressional ethics" or "victimless crime"

:oji:

cadurand
04-10-2012, 12:36 PM
I understand how once a contract has been completed (The exchange at the cash register), the products you bought have become your personal property, and requiring a receipt for such items is not legally allowed when leaving the store, but is there not an argument be made that the store is checking for items that you may not have paid for, and thus legally aren't yours?There is no such thing as a "citizen's detention".

Only citizen's arrest. If an agent of the store sees you stealing something they can arrest you.

They can't DETAIN you to conduct an investigation to see if you might have stolen something.

That's one of the main diffences between the powers a police officer has vs. the rest of us.

DrDavid
04-10-2012, 12:50 PM
I think the real take home message here, if I may be so bold as to say it is, don't willingly give up your rights against unreasonable search/seizure, and don't allow an invasion of privacy (showing ID) for non-lawful/non-legal reasons.

Once you give up your rights, it's a LOT harder to get them back vs. just never allowing them to be taken from you to begin with.

For the record:

Do not agree to a warrant-less search, no matter how "reasonable" it sounds.
Do not show ID in a situation where it is not REQUIRED (credit card transactions are specifically not required to show ID). In the case of needing to show ID to buy Ammo, shop somewhere else where it isn't required if needed.
Do not stop and show receipts where not legally required.
Use your rights; shut your mouth if asked questions by law enforcement!
The police are NOT your friends.. They are there to arrest you and charge you with a crime. That is THEIR JOB!

Now, nothing here says, "Be a douche-bag".. Far from it. Be respectful to people.. Don't be belligerent, just stand up for your rights.

As for the ID with Credit Cards... I have, on my iPhone, the Visa/MC/Amex/Discover specific merchant agreements that I will show to merchants to support my argument. Frankly, once I show them the merchant agreement they agreed to, the conversation very quickly ends--in my favor.

ETA: You don't even need to show your ID to police.. California does not have a stop-and-identify statute. So, why if you don't even need to show your ID to cops, would you happily show it to everyone else? Keep your private information private!

OleCuss
04-10-2012, 1:34 PM
Oh, come on. Would you complain when the government and big business have a little intrusion into your privacy for the common good?

After all, they search you before you get onto a plane and that stops the terrorists.

They ask for ID so that minors don't get alcohol.

They ask for ID so that our vote can be secure. Oh, wait, I guess they don't. Our vote needn't be secured from abuse so no need.

But you get the idea.

I mean, can you imagine minors getting alcohol? What, you say that they get it anyway?

Can you imagine all the terrorists who are stopped by the current search regime? Oops? You say we have to imagine since we've no real evidence that it does stop them?

Well, I could go on, but I'm not employed by the GSA so I actually have to work.

jigenax
04-10-2012, 1:47 PM
Bottom line is that Wal-Mart is a private business and they can make you fart into a paper bag to buy ammo if that's their policy.

:rofl2: Wow, that made my day!

winnre
04-10-2012, 1:53 PM
I wonder who REALLY checks ID. Do they look at the birthdate only? Or anything at all? Isn't the data rather private anyway? How the sales clerk knows what caliber guns I have and where I live...perfect!

Mr. Beretta
04-10-2012, 4:49 PM
I've never been asked yet for ID when I purchased ammo at Walmart. Even as recent as last week in Santee. Got a box of 22's.

I guess being north of six decades, using a cane and the AARP button on my cardigan sweater my grand child gave me for my birthday helped. :)

askrobert
04-10-2012, 4:49 PM
I've only been check at the College Ave Walmart they also told me once I could only buy 7 boxes of Ammo then they told me 3 boxes. But the one in La Mesa never says anything no matter how many boxes I get. LOL. Life go figure

creekside
04-10-2012, 5:42 PM
There is no such thing as a "citizen's detention".

Only citizen's arrest. If an agent of the store sees you stealing something they can arrest you.

They can't DETAIN you to conduct an investigation to see if you might have stolen something.

That's one of the main diffences between the powers a police officer has vs. the rest of us.

PC 490.5 Merchant's Privilege (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=484-502.9) creates a power of private detention:

490.5.
(f) (1) A merchant may detain a person for a reasonable time for the purpose of conducting an investigation in a reasonable manner whenever the merchant has probable cause to believe the person to be detained is attempting to unlawfully take or has unlawfully taken merchandise from the merchant's premises.
A theater owner may detain a person for a reasonable time for the purpose of conducting an investigation in a reasonable manner whenever the theater owner has probable cause to believe the person to be detained is attempting to operate a video recording device within the premises of a motion picture theater without the authority of the owner of the theater.
A person employed by a library facility may detain a person for a reasonable time for the purpose of conducting an investigation in a reasonable manner whenever the person employed by a library facility has probable cause to believe the person to be detained is attempting to unlawfully remove or has unlawfully removed books or library materials from the premises of the library facility.
(2) In making the detention a merchant, theater owner, or a person employed by a library facility may use a reasonable amount of nondeadly force necessary to protect himself or herself and to prevent escape of the person detained or the loss of tangible or intangible property.
(3) During the period of detention any items which a merchant or theater owner, or any items which a person employed by a library facility has probable cause to believe are unlawfully taken from the premises of the merchant or library facility, or recorded on theater premises, and which are in plain view may be examined by the merchant, theater owner, or person employed by a library facility for the purposes of ascertaining the ownership thereof.

Mr331
04-10-2012, 6:54 PM
Walmart runs their own show. They do the same crap out here. One nice old lady always says "this isnt for a hand gun, right.....right?" and winks. No matter what ammo you buy. Answer wrong and she'll groan and ask for ID. Better yet they refuse to aknowledge your CCW to bypass a background check.

turbomkt
04-11-2012, 12:57 AM
I've never been asked yet for ID when I purchased ammo at Walmart. Even as recent as last week in Santee. Got a box of 22's.

Just got 200 rds of .40 S&W at the same store (Saturday?) with no problems. I don't get my receipt checked as I leave since I go out the automobile service entrance/exit. I'd also like to note the girl who stocks the ammo at the Santee store is really helpful. She was all about telling me which was the best deal when I was looking at .223.

VaderSpade
04-11-2012, 7:40 AM
I didnít read all the posts in this thread so maybe this has been covered. Wal-Mart got into some hot water for selling guns and ammo to people that they shouldnít be selling to.
With SO many low wage clerks they needed to devise a method that was as fool proof as possible. AND they needed to get ATF to agree with their method in order to be able to sell ammo and guns again.
Their agreed upon method was to psychically hold the buyers driver license in their hand while entering the birthday into the cash register. The cash registers are programed to not accept the sale if this is not done.

So in Wal-Martís case the ATF DID tell them it is required. Required for Wal-Mart to be able to sell ammo. NOTHING is kept of file.

P.Charm
04-11-2012, 8:41 AM
Should have picked up some midol while you were at it, you were acting like enough of a b----

lol^^^

I'm 35 but look like I'm in my early 20s so I get carded all the time for everything. It's their job to ask for ID. I know you are mad that you look old enough but they asked you anyway. They aren't paid to make age judgements, if they card for for ammo they should card everyone, they shouldn't have to guess your age.

1859sharps
04-12-2012, 8:41 AM
back to the original issue...walmart verifying you are of legal age to buy ammunition by requesting state issued ID...I am NOT seeing the issue. I am not seeing how Walmart trying to comply with the law is violating your rights.

I am really thinking this is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

It would be far more constructive to channel all the energy going into this "outrage" into a real outrage such as the LTC issues in California, the handgun roster, the "assault weapons law" ......maybe even changing age rules for buying ammo...

But to go on and on about a company doing their best to comply with the law...wast of energy in my opinion.

REH
04-12-2012, 10:28 AM
Wal Mart asked for ID when buying Diesel Kleen?????

VaderSpade
04-12-2012, 10:35 AM
Wal Mart asked for ID when buying Diesel Kleen?????

And any spray paint!

oneeyebear
04-12-2012, 10:59 AM
2 years ago I bought some shotgun shells for my 870 and some .22 LR ammo from walmart, I was 20 at the time. They asked for ID.

Hell, I believe that I was even asked to show ID when I was buying bb ammo for my bb gun.