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View Full Version : Carrying without a permit cases?


MrTuffPaws
04-20-2007, 12:01 PM
First off, I am not going to violate any law, nor do I want anyone else to. This is just curiosity

Does anyone know any of the following:

Has there ever been any cases where a person was illegally carrying a handgun and used it for self defense then reported it/turned themselves into the police? If so, what was the outcome of the case?

Packing.org states that if you are made carrying illegally the first time, you usually get a $200 fine and a slap on the wrist. Does anyone know of any actual examples of this in the past or anyone have personal experience with it?

E Pluribus Unum
04-20-2007, 12:16 PM
First off, I am not going to violate any law, nor do I want anyone else to. This is just curiosity

Does anyone know any of the following:

Has there ever been any cases where a person was illegally carrying a handgun and used it for self defense then reported it/turned themselves into the police? If so, what was the outcome of the case?

Packing.org states that if you are made carrying illegally the first time, you usually get a $200 fine and a slap on the wrist. Does anyone know of any actual examples of this in the past or anyone have personal experience with it?

This was YEARS ago... but I have personal experience.

I was pulled over by the police when they asked me if I had any weapons in the car. I was honest (first mistake) and told him. I was coming home from hunting (which meets one of the exceptions for CCW) and I still had the gun on. What was illegal is I had a loaded magazine in the gun (no round in the chamber).

I was arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon and carrying a loaded weapon in public. I paid $2500 to an attorney to fight it.

I ended up pleading guilty to a minor traffic violation and they dismissed the gun charges. I paid $350 in fines and did 30 hours community service.

Part of the reason I made out so well was that I gave my attorney 5 years worth of past hunting licenses and the instructions that I would take no plea bargain that removed gun rights or resulted in the destruction of my gun.

It took over a month but my attorney fought vigorously and the DA gave into the pressure.

In the end it cost me $2850, 30 hours community service, and the distinct possibility of never getting a CCW permit. Not worth it if you ask me.

cadurand
04-20-2007, 1:05 PM
....
I ended up pleading guilty to a minor traffic violation and they dismissed the gun charges. I paid $350 in fines and did 30 hours community service.
....


How come you got 30 hours community service for a minor traffic violation?

grammaton76
04-20-2007, 1:09 PM
How come you got 30 days community service for a minor traffic violation?

Hours, not days.

Pred@tor
04-20-2007, 1:11 PM
This was YEARS ago... but I have personal experience.

I was pulled over by the police when they asked me if I had any weapons in the car. I was honest (first mistake) and told him. I was coming home from hunting (which meets one of the exceptions for CCW) and I still had the gun on. What was illegal is I had a loaded magazine in the gun (no round in the chamber).

I was arrested and charged with carrying a concealed weapon and carrying a loaded weapon in public. I paid $2500 to an attorney to fight it.

I ended up pleading guilty to a minor traffic violation and they dismissed the gun charges. I paid $350 in fines and did 30 hours community service.

Part of the reason I made out so well was that I gave my attorney 5 years worth of past hunting licenses and the instructions that I would take no plea bargain that removed gun rights or resulted in the destruction of my gun.

It took over a month but my attorney fought vigorously and the DA gave into the pressure.

In the end it cost me $2850, 30 hours community service, and the distinct possibility of never getting a CCW permit. Not worth it if you ask me.

You must be the guy from my Californian Gun Group on Myspace. :D

FinweElensar
04-20-2007, 1:13 PM
Where's Snoop Dog now?

cadurand
04-20-2007, 1:17 PM
Hours, not days.

thank you, just changed it in my original post.

It still doesn't make sense to get 30 hours community service for a traffic ticket.

E Pluribus Unum
04-20-2007, 2:44 PM
How come you got 30 hours community service for a minor traffic violation?

It was a wobbler. It could have been charged as an infraction or a misdemeanor. I plead no contest to the misdemeanor with a conditional dismissal. When I completed community service it was reduced from a misdemeaner to an infraction.

Dont Tread on Me
04-20-2007, 2:49 PM
An people wonder why we are so hard on LEOs here in terms of not answering their questions.

You were legal by the letter of the law yet ended up paying 3K and doing a weeks worth of community service!

I hope they at least let you teach children to shoot for your service.

CalNRA
04-20-2007, 3:51 PM
An people wonder why we are so hard on LEOs here in terms of not answering their questions.

You were legal by the letter of the law yet ended up paying 3K and doing a weeks worth of community service!

I hope they at least let you teach children to shoot for your service.

I was thinking about that, if coming back/to hunting was an exception to the CCW ban, then why did he get arrested for having a loaded mag in the gun? Or does the said clause require the gun to be unloaded?(then what's the freaking point of carrying a pistol?)

E Pluribus Unum
04-20-2007, 5:00 PM
I was thinking about that, if coming back/to hunting was an exception to the CCW ban, then why did he get arrested for having a loaded mag in the gun? Or does the said clause require the gun to be unloaded?(then what's the freaking point of carrying a pistol?)

The said clause requires the gun to be unloaded. It says that it is lawful to carry an UNLOADED concealed firearm. I was told that the definition of loaded was any ammunition in the same passenger compartment (this was wrong). My logic was "If having bullets in the glove box is considered loaded anyway, I might as well have the magazine in the gun".

In the past when I was pulled over and I told them I was hunting I was not harrassed; I assumed this would be the case every time.

You must be the guy from my Californian Gun Group on Myspace. :D

I am he.. :)

It still doesn't make sense to get 30 hours community service for a traffic ticket.

It makes perfect sense if one knows how the legal system works. They do conditional dismissals in all kinds of cases. Most often is drug cases. As long as you meet the conditions (conditional) then the charges are dismissed.

In many traffic infractions, they can be filed as either an infraction OR a misdemeanor; these are called wobblers. TECHNICALLY how it worked was this:

I plead guilty to the misdemeanor traffic violation and was sentanced to 10 days in jail. The 10 days in jail was suspended (removed) on the condition that I do 30 hours community service. I was not ordered to be on probation so as soon as my 30 hours of community service was completed, the DA filed the paperwork to amend the complaint against me and reduce the charge from a misdemeanor to an infraction. This way the government gets their money, but my criminal record is clean because according to the record it was an infraction.

If I had failed to do the community service, the conditions of the plea bargain would not have been met, the charge would not have been reduced and I would have done 10 days in jail. Because I did complete community service as ordered I got no jail time and all the charges were reduced and dismissed- as if nothing ever happened. It was a WIN-WIN for both sides.

Dont Tread on Me
04-20-2007, 5:08 PM
Thanks for the info. You are right on the hunting definition of loaded. It is a round in the chamber.

Have you changed your SOP for dealing with the cops now? How would you answer the "guns in the car question" for example?

FreedomIsNotFree
04-20-2007, 5:42 PM
The State must be very careful with those misdemeanors they "reduce" to infractions. Reason is, infractions can NOT, under any circumstances, qualify for any punishment of jailtime. I"m not even sure community service can be a form of punishment. I'm not saying its not happening in the courts, but according to the caselaw I have read, the only reason courts get away with limiting a defendants rights with infraction cases is because the only form of punishment is a fine.

socalguns
04-20-2007, 10:53 PM
There's an exemption to CCW requirement
if you're in reasonable fear for your life,
like if you have a (temporary) restraining order.
So I say if you legitimately end up defending yourself,
your fears were justified, and you're exempt :)