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NoTime2Shoot
04-20-2007, 5:56 AM
How can we support this guy? You know the family of the dead perp is going to sue. :rolleyes:

http://www.ktvu.com/news/12591551/detail.html

<edit>

I'm sure there will be focus on why the owner was LEGALLY carrying as well.

Gringo Bandito
04-20-2007, 6:07 AM
Its good that they are are not spinning the story to crucify the store owner BUT they did say automatic weapons where used. How can we find out what guns are being used in crimes?

Gringo Bandito
04-20-2007, 6:08 AM
How can we support this guy? You know the family of the dead perp is going to sue. :rolleyes:

http://www.ktvu.com/news/12591551/detail.html

<edit>

I'm sure there will be focus on why the owner was LEGALLY carrying as well.


Here is the single most important reason he had a weapon on his property - International Ave.

NoTime2Shoot
04-20-2007, 6:17 AM
Apparently he was tired of being robbed.

I gather the perp's were the one's with the "assault weapon". By the demographics, I would say an illegally imported AK. Those are pretty prolific.

However, being that this is the media, it was probably a glock 9mm. :rolleyes:

MadMex
04-20-2007, 6:30 AM
The victim should immediately sue the BG's family first.

M. Sage
04-20-2007, 7:10 AM
The victim should immediately sue the BG's family first.

+1 to that.

jwj
04-20-2007, 8:50 AM
"Police do not yet know who fired their gun first."

Hm, I wonder why that matters. If you run a pizza place on International Ave, and three guys come in carrying an "assault weapon", chances are they are not dropping by to get the Greek special with extra cheese. What's the guy behind the counter supposed to do? Wait until they killed him and then shoot back?

-- j

Steyr_223
04-20-2007, 9:36 AM
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/20/BAGQFPCJ2820.DTL

DedEye
04-20-2007, 10:18 AM
Watch the fact that he also shot his son be used as evidence of how civilians shouldn't have guns.

lazyworm
04-20-2007, 10:52 AM
This morning's KCBS report said the owner pulled out his "high powered assult pistol"

ARGH!!!!

schizrade2
04-20-2007, 11:32 AM
This morning's KCBS report said the owner pulled out his "high powered assult pistol"

ARGH!!!!

What do you expect from the bottom feeders in the media?

IPSICK
04-20-2007, 11:38 AM
"Police do not yet know who fired their gun first."

Hm, I wonder why that matters. If you run a pizza place on International Ave, and three guys come in carrying an "assault weapon", chances are they are not dropping by to get the Greek special with extra cheese. What's the guy behind the counter supposed to do? Wait until they killed him and then shoot back?

-- j

Agreed. Why the hell would it matter who shot first? The owner should have every right to protect his place of business. I do hope his son is OK.

rkt88edmo
04-20-2007, 1:24 PM
Oakland police spokesman Holmgren said, "We're not saying that we want citizens to go out there and arm themselves and take the law into their own hands. We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects."

To give up their property, livelihood, and lives as politely and with as little fuss as possible.

Hey he identified the suspect all right, "that dead guy on the floor, yup, thats the one who pointed a gun at me."

Alameda County prosecutors are reviewing the case to see if any criminal charges will be filed against the pizza-store owner. But a preliminary investigation showed that he was defending his business and his family, Holmgren said.

"There is definitely a balance," Holmgren said. "This thing had potential -- who knows where the suspects were going to take the situation. But by no stretch of the imagination are we agreeing with or justifying what the owner did."


Preliminary investigation shows he was defending his business and family and that does not justify his actions? (Well, it is the media report and the cop may be taken out of context, maybe not)

Bad Voodoo
04-20-2007, 1:28 PM
To give up their property, livelihood, and lives as politely and with as little fuss as possible.

That's exactly what "they" want and exactly why we are afforded our 2nd Amendment rights. To keep government in check.

-voodoo

Builder
04-20-2007, 1:49 PM
Officer Roland Holmgren, Oakland police spokesman:
"There is definitely a balance," Holmgren said. "This thing had potential -- who knows where the suspects were going to take the situation. But by no stretch of the imagination are we agreeing with or justifying what the owner did."
Holmgren said, "We're not saying that we want citizens to go out there and arm themselves and take the law into their own hands. We want citizens to be good witnesses, to be good report-takers and to identify suspects." What he is really saying is that it is expected by the Oakland police to make sure that there are VICTIMS thus justifying the need for police. Also, civilians with guns make the police look like they aren't doing their job.
OTOH, he could have thanked the pizza owner for helping them with their work.
The fact is that the owner does have the law in his own hands by providing him with the tools to legally defend his life.
In fact, and by definition, if we can not defend ourselves with a firearm, we are almost always guaranteeing that we are victims.
It seems that Officer Roland Holmgren does not understand this. A pity.
Builder

Bad Voodoo
04-20-2007, 1:57 PM
What he is really saying is that it is expected by the Oakland police to make sure that there are VICTIMS thus justifying the need for police.

That can't be it at all. Oakland has enough victims already to share with the entire half of Northern Nevada.

-voodoo

MrTuffPaws
04-20-2007, 2:25 PM
Maybe if the guy had a sign saying: "We reserve the right to shoot you if you rob us." would have made this all more kosher

Builder
04-20-2007, 2:55 PM
That can't be it at all. Oakland has enough victims already to share with the entire half of Northern Nevada.
True, it isn't all of it. He assumes that being a victim is some how acceptable. My question to him is why do I have to be a victim in the first place?
Thanks,
Builder

CalNRA
04-20-2007, 4:40 PM
Damn, with the media in cooperation with the cops, no wonder no one wants to be responsible for their own safety any more these days. This is very consistent with the Alameda county's CCW policy, i.e. forgetaboutit.

WTF are they teaching in the police academy these days? a good citizen is a dead and innocent one? anyone with a gun=suspect unless he's got a badge?

sounds like we need to issue slingshot to these morons for a day and see what it feels like to be disarmed and walking around Oakland.

tgriffin
04-20-2007, 6:24 PM
any updates to this case

guimus
04-20-2007, 8:00 PM
I used to live on 37th, 2 blocks from International (50 blocks towards the 'nice' part of Oakland from where this happened, but still super ghetto). I once called the police to reports shots fired in front of a neighbors house. They drove by 1/2 hour later. After that it was MUCH easier to convince my roommates to go to the range with me.

jwj
04-21-2007, 1:57 AM
Uh, WTF??? From the sfgate article...


"There is definitely a balance," Holmgren said. "This thing had potential -- who knows where the suspects were going to take the situation. But by no stretch of the imagination are we agreeing with or justifying what the owner did." So, uh, someone points a gun at you, threatening to kill you if you do not let him rob you, and promising not to kill you of you do. You choose not to bet your life on this felon's word and preempt the situation by killing him before he gets a chance to reconsider his promise. And some spokesperson then proceeds to chastize you for it???


The shooting has left two families traumatized, Holmgren said. "There are no winners in this whole case."I don't know. Scenario 1: Guy A live and with his money, guy B dead. Scenario 2: A robbed and possibly dead, B running around free until the money he robbed from A has been spent on dope and bling and he decides to rob the next guy C. Scenario 1 looks like a clear win for A to me, and whoever C would have been---anybody here, for example.

And yes, A, his son who got shot, and all the potential Cs would probably have preferred not to even have to make that choice, and to see B be a productive member of society. Alas, B chose to be someone who made a living out of pointing deadly weapons at people and threatening to kill them unless they gave him money. So then, B dead and everybody else safe from being robbed and/or killed by him seems to be the next best thing to me. We all have to thank that Pizza guy.

-- j

dwtt
04-21-2007, 8:32 AM
WTF are they teaching in the police academy these days? a good citizen is a dead and innocent one? anyone with a gun=suspect unless he's got a badge?

I don't think that's what they teach cops in training, but that seems to be the attitude of many cops. It's certainly the attitude of our DA's, politicians, and news media. If you have a gun, you are a criminal or a future criminal. Their logic isn't logic, it's hysteria.

NoTime2Shoot
04-22-2007, 9:31 AM
More info, some makes you kinda get a wtf?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/21/BAGUNPCQN41.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea

ETD1010
04-22-2007, 11:14 AM
More info, some makes you kinda get a wtf?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/21/BAGUNPCQN41.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea

wow... definitely wtf. . . "he was a good person" says is ex, who's head was smashed into a wall by the guy... GG, what is the world coming to?

cartman
04-22-2007, 11:17 AM
Lets all go feel sorry for the poor armed robber, I mean whats balls on that store owner to not just witness what was happening:rolleyes:

turinreza
04-22-2007, 11:44 AM
""I'm not upset, you feel me? You wouldn't want it to happen, but it happened. Ain't no telling why that shooting occurred."

Definately WTF? It happend because he brought a gun into a
place of business .. I guess the gangsters and druggies
are so used to people being sheeple they have to ask themselves
"what would cause a man to defend himself?"

crazy.. .. maybe.. it's because they are used to the cops
being on the gangsters side instead of the victims side...
who knows..

LAK Supply
04-22-2007, 12:04 PM
That Oakland PD spokesass is a POS. I think I'm going to call the PD and request that the department strip him of his weapon/ccw when he's out in the city. He's just another guy at the end of the day.....maybe he should subscribe to his own philosophy. I'm almost certain they won't comply with my request, but at least they'll hear it.......