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View Full Version : another (is this legal to own in CA) well is it?


savageevo
04-19-2007, 10:49 PM
okay im still in Washington state and bored again after work. I stopped at a local gun store and found this. it is from kel tec. total length is 29.2 inches but on there web site they have a rubber butt stock that would extend it. I examine it and by fixing the ten round mag I believe this is doable. By drilling through the mag release with a tiny hole and putting a screw and nut Then fixing the mag. The bullet could then be load either through the ejection port or when folded, through the front when folded. I held this thing and I think it is very comfortable to hold. Look at the link and let me know.



http://www.kel-tec.com/sub2000.html

hoffmang
04-19-2007, 11:13 PM
If you fix the magazine and make it so it takes tools to make it shorter than 30", it looks to be California legal.

-Gene

slick_711
04-19-2007, 11:24 PM
They're fun little rifles, a friend in Texas had one each in 9mm/.40SW and I shot both quite a bit. They also use Glock mags, which is "neato." As Hoffmang said they would look to be legal if you fixed the mag and length.

Outside CA I think they're almost the ultimate truck gun, despite lacking some of the qualities we look for in a good rifle, they're very compact, easily used, light, and could potentially use the same magazines as your main sidearm if you plan your purchases. Nice option anyway.

anotherone
04-19-2007, 11:45 PM
Looks like another off-list rifle to me. Just pin the mag anyway you can and you're good to go!

Of course here's the really interesting "grey area" configuration possibility: what would happen if the pistol grip was sawed-off? The resulting rifle would only have a "pistol type grasp" when a glock magazine was inserted into the rifle. Once the magazine was removed, said grasp would no longer be possible. TWILIGHT ZONE!!!

slick_711
04-19-2007, 11:50 PM
Looks like another off-list rifle to me. Just pin the mag anyway you can and you're good to go!

Of course here's the really interesting "grey area" configuration possibility: what would happen if the pistol grip was sawed-off? The resulting rifle would only have a "pistol type grasp" when a glock magazine was inserted into the rifle. Once the magazine was removed, said grasp would no longer be possible. TWILIGHT ZONE!!!

I want some of what you're smoking. :D


Edit: Wait, I said that jokingly then I mentally reviewed SB-23... hahaha... (I still think you'd be skating on water in the hopes it might freeze soon) but I guess that could theoretically work? I'm not sure that the magazine wouldn't be considered a pistol-style grasp though, and directional pressure on the mag would certainly make the rifle prone to jamming. Very gray indeed, but also very interesting...

FreshTapCoke
04-20-2007, 12:19 AM
How do you load a pistol magazine while it's pinned?

hoffmang
04-20-2007, 12:21 AM
Ignoring the collapsible stock and assuming detachable magazines, you'd still have a problem. If the pistol grip was gone, but the magazine still allowed a pistol style grasp (which it would) it would not be legal.

-Gene

tenringtaz
04-20-2007, 2:48 AM
Be careful when "modifying" - looks like the AG is intent on clamping down...

QUOTE from this doc (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AWpolicyrev4.pdf) (unsure of publication date)

Law enforcement officials, firearm dealers and the public should be aware that semiautomatic centerfire rifles that are modified to be temporarily incapable of accepting detachable magazines, but can be restored to accommodate detachable magazines, are assault weapons if they have any of the features listed in §12276.1(a)(1). The Department intends to exercise its power pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.5(i) to adopt regulations as “necessary or proper to carry out the purposes and intent” of California law to ban assault weapons in the state.

cartman
04-20-2007, 5:10 AM
Be careful when "modifying" - looks like the AG is intent on clamping down...

QUOTE from this doc (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AWpolicyrev4.pdf) (unsure of publication date)

Law enforcement officials, firearm dealers and the public should be aware that semiautomatic centerfire rifles that are modified to be temporarily incapable of accepting detachable magazines, but can be restored to accommodate detachable magazines, are assault weapons if they have any of the features listed in §12276.1(a)(1). The Department intends to exercise its power pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.5(i) to adopt regulations as “necessary or proper to carry out the purposes and intent” of California law to ban assault weapons in the state.

I'm pretty sure that that is the infamous letter that Ive heard about a million times on this board. If so its not worth the paper its written on. Some of the better informed members like bwiese and hoffmang could show you links to letters that show the legallity of using a fixed mag method.

Technical Ted
04-20-2007, 9:24 AM
Ah yeas, the infamouise "MEMORANDUM" that has been discussed ad nauseam for months.

Memorandums are not the law.

Be careful when "modifying" - looks like the AG is intent on clamping down...

QUOTE from this doc (http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/AWpolicyrev4.pdf) (unsure of publication date)

Law enforcement officials, firearm dealers and the public should be aware that semiautomatic centerfire rifles that are modified to be temporarily incapable of accepting detachable magazines, but can be restored to accommodate detachable magazines, are assault weapons if they have any of the features listed in §12276.1(a)(1). The Department intends to exercise its power pursuant to Penal Code section 12276.5(i) to adopt regulations as “necessary or proper to carry out the purposes and intent” of California law to ban assault weapons in the state.

tenringtaz
04-20-2007, 9:39 AM
Yes, probably... but, it's out there, so best to know before you tread on thin ice.

hoffmang
04-20-2007, 11:58 AM
tenring,

The CA DOJ is the one treading on thin ice. You are quoting their FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) creation and not the law.

The proof that this memorandum is not actually the law is in the number of folks who've been arrested for having fixed magazines that are fixed only requiring a tool and have had their charges dropped.

I suggest you read over some of the older threads to see that this has been thoroughly debunked.

-Gene

savageevo
04-20-2007, 11:51 PM
great to know that i can get that rifle. next question, I believe they have same day back ground checks so if I purchase that and there check up clears, of course I will fix the mag. can i bring that back home on the plane or do I have to send that to a CA FFL and still wait for the ten days.

hoffmang
04-21-2007, 9:43 AM
savage,

You have to be a resident of Washington State to purchase this at a WA FFL. If you are, then you can purchase it and, once you pin the magazine, you can bring it to CA.

-Gene