PDA

View Full Version : Ar pistol buffer tube cheek riser, Is this legal?


mmrx2
04-01-2012, 5:54 AM
I found this internet pic of this Ar pistol, some told me there was a thread about this, but I can't find it. Can this be considered a sbr? I think the cheek riser looks to much like a stock. What if you move the riser towards the muzzle, maybe an inch to leave a little of the back of the buffer tube exposed?

http://socalfj40.com/images/forums/ar/arpistol2.jpg

mmrx2
04-01-2012, 5:57 AM
How about the handstop, could it be a VFG?

RugerFanRyan
04-01-2012, 6:00 AM
Hand stop is fine, not sure about the piece on the buffer though.

Sent from my AT100 using Tapatalk

Capybara
04-01-2012, 7:42 AM
If you research the AR pistol threads, there is an ATF letter about the CAA saddle, saying it is okay. But that is ATF, not CADOJ. Based my research, having that CAA saddle on there is probably legal but it is also could be a slippery slope with LE. There is legal and there is, "do you want to be hauled to jail by a LEO and or DA who doesn't know all of the interpretations of the rule?" Just because you are legal doesn't mean you won't be hauled to jail, have your pistol impounded or destroyed and go through an expensive and nightmarish hassle.

You hit the nail on the head, it does make the buffer tube look like a butt stock and that is the essence of why I wouldn't do this. I even bought one for my AR pistol that is being built and my FFL said he spoke with some fairly knowledgeable high up Calgunner who said, "just don't" so I am not. So I put it on my AR rifle instead. You want your buffer tube on your AR pistol to be comfortable but the foam wraps are better because they make it so your buffer tube cannot easily accept a stock but nobody is going to accuse you of having an SBR with just a foam covered buffer tube.

It's up to you, do you feel like being a test case? ATF interpretation and CADOJ prosecution are two different and distinct things. I don't want to go there.

I am going through the same thing with the VFG. A VFG is a no go on a pistol, but my AR pistol will be greater that 26" OAL so based upon the ATF letter about the Franklin Armory XO-26, I can have a VFG. But when I get to California law, it is getting a bit murkier. To me, it is obviously legal, not an AOW, but do I want to get hassled or worry about being arrested by less enlightened LEOs every time I go shooting? I may go with no VFG, a hand stop, a Mako magazine handgrip, an AFG or ? I don't want to be a test case. I can always put the VFG on later, when these types of configurations become more commonly accepted, it's no different than having a featureless or BB a few years ago, at first it seems like a big step, who will be the test, but eventually they become commonplace. I don't know if over 26" AR pistols with VFGs will ever become commonplace though but Franklin Armory is selling them at all of their dealers in California and people are buying and shooting them. So far, so good.

gschoelles
04-01-2012, 8:00 AM
Wonder if it can be put on CCW... :43:

I found this internet pic of this Ar pistol, some told me there was a thread about this, but I can't find it. Can this be considered a sbr? I think the cheek riser looks to much like a stock. What if you move the riser towards the muzzle, maybe an inch to leave a little of the back of the buffer tube exposed?

http://socalfj40.com/images/forums/ar/arpistol2.jpg

HK35
04-01-2012, 1:27 PM
I am going through the same thing with the VFG. A VFG is a no go on a pistol, but my AR pistol will be greater that 26" OAL so based upon the ATF letter about the Franklin Armory XO-26, I can have a VFG. But when I get to California law, it is getting a bit murkier. To me, it is obviously legal, not an AOW, but do I want to get hassled or worry about being arrested by less enlightened LEOs every time I go shooting? .

I agree with you on NOT putting a CAA cheek riser on a pistol as it could very well make it comfortable enough to be shoulder fired which makes it an SBR.

But I disagree with you on the VFG on a 26+" pistol; what makes it legal to have a VFG (an "evil" feature) on there is your Bullet Button just like on your evil rifle.

Quiet
04-01-2012, 2:02 PM
Wonder if it can be put on CCW... :43:

In CA...

Technically, yes, you can get an AR pistol on your CA LTC permit because it is a handgun.

However, it is up to the issuing authority to authorize it or not.

Capybara
04-01-2012, 2:36 PM
HK35, please expand on that.

Keep in mind that the "firearm" I am creating will transfer as an SSE pistol, I am pretty sure. What I am afraid of is if a LEO even takes out the Calguns HG flowchart, this gun does not track and ends up looking like an AOW when you hit #8 "Does the Firearm have a smooth bore or a vertical foregrip?". If yes, that leads us to Violates 26 USC 5861 if not properly possessed per 27 CFR part 479?

Is there some exemption I am missing here in using the flowchart? I am sure I am looking at this wrong as Franklin Armory must have some sort of Ca. exemption to this in mind since they are in California and sell these here through their dealer network. But in being pretty literal since I don't understand the finer points, it looks as if it doesn't track the HG flowchart. I know that it ends up being a regular title 1 firearm but if it is DROS as a pistol, how does that track either the HG or rifle flowcharts?

mmrx2
04-02-2012, 1:16 PM
It seems the consensus is the cheek rest is legal but, not yet a good idea. I guess it's similar to when the bullet buttons first came out, and people were still using the prince 50's because they thought it was more legal. Maybe the cheek rest will be looked at in a better light in the future.

ke6guj
04-02-2012, 1:24 PM
HK35, please expand on that.

Keep in mind that the "firearm" I am creating will transfer as an SSE pistol, I am pretty sure. What I am afraid of is if a LEO even takes out the Calguns HG flowchart, this gun does not track and ends up looking like an AOW when you hit #8 "Does the Firearm have a smooth bore or a vertical foregrip?". If yes, that leads us to Violates 26 USC 5861 if not properly possessed per 27 CFR part 479?

Is there some exemption I am missing here in using the flowchart? I am sure I am looking at this wrong as Franklin Armory must have some sort of Ca. exemption to this in mind since they are in California and sell these here through their dealer network. But in being pretty literal since I don't understand the finer points, it looks as if it doesn't track the HG flowchart. I know that it ends up being a regular title 1 firearm but if it is DROS as a pistol, how does that track either the HG or rifle flowcharts?
the opinion that a 26+" 'pistol' can have a VFG without violating federal law is a new opinion from ATF and the flowchart has not been updated to cover it. CA-wise, nothing has changed, its still a pistol in CA so it has to have the maglock.

Exile Machine
04-02-2012, 5:34 PM
We sell a boatload of those stock saddles nationwide, including CA. Never heard of anyone getting hauled in for one.

If you're iffy about the legality of the CAA part, consider one of these rubber buffer tube covers instead:

https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/images/P/PBT_SAMPLER.JPG (https://www.exilemachine.net/shop/pistol-buffer-tube-cover-sample-pack-21314.html)