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View Full Version : Boresnake vs Otis for Ruger 10/22...No Straight Rods


orthopod
03-28-2012, 11:17 PM
I am looking for the best mix of time efficiency/performance to clean my upcoming Ruger 10/22 barrel. This will be my 2nd gun. My 1st is a Mossberg 930 that I clean with a Boresnake and CLP immediately after every range visit. I just received an Otis Military Deluxe cleaning kit which I will use with the included O85 solvent/lube every time I actually field strip the shotgun at home = every couple hundred rounds or few range trips. The Otis includes the parts for 9mm, 40SW, 45ACP, 5.56, 7.62, 12GA but per my emails with Otis it does not include the cable or brush for the Ruger 10/22. I have the option of getting another boresnake for $15 on Amazon, or the Otis .22 kit for $12 on Amazon. Do you guys recommend:

1. I get both and continue my shotgun regimen of bore snake/CLP immediately after shooting and Otis during field strip sessions?

2. Just the bore snake or the Otis?

3. Using something other than CLP with the bore snake or O85 with the Otis?

I am not interested in buying straight rods as I want something fast due to the limited time I have to spend on hobbies and my desire to spend more gun time on shooting and less on cleaning. I know I will never get it as clean as I could with straight rods etc. but I just want this to be reliable and perform well I'm not really interested in a picture perfect bore. Thanks for the help!

wizdumb
03-28-2012, 11:28 PM
The boresnake will be faster than the Otis. You don't need to put a new patch on with every pass and you don't need to switch between patches and brushes.
Bonus points: AR-15 and other 5.56/.223 rifles can use the same boresnake as your .22LR.
Use of CLP should be just fine on the boresnake, but avoid anything with copper solvents, which will eat away at the brushes.

orthopod
03-29-2012, 12:12 AM
What solvents/lubes do you use on your bore snake?

sholling
03-29-2012, 12:27 AM
I've never really liked boresnakes but whatever you choose don't over clean because 22s shoot better with the barrel a bit dirty. I clean the receivers in my collection fairly often but rarely clean the barrels. I have muzzle barrel guides for my 10/22s and Lucas bore guides for all of my bolt action rifles, and I use Tipton one-piece rods for everything.

stockranger
03-29-2012, 12:27 AM
a bore snake is not enough to clean your shotgun or rifle properly. The bore snake is good for in between cleanings and at the range. eventually every gun needs to be scrubbed with a brush. I do not use any solvent or oils on the bore snake.

Many owners of the 10/22 drill a hole in the back of the reciever which lets you clean the action using a rod without taking off the barrel. Barrel torque is crucial for the 10/22 to shoot good so once you got it set you don't want to take it off. Some guys thread the barrel or epoxy it onto the action.

Do yourself a favor and get a proshot stainless .22 cal rod. Then get a good bore guide like a lucas. you will want to run solvent patches, then a brush, then more patches.

.22lr rarely needs clean. I just pull the bore snake before and after shooting. Then clean with brush and rod when accuracy drops off. usually 1,000 - 3,000 rounds depending on the particular barrel and ammo.

Just wait till you see how much lead, plastic, and powder is stuck in your shotgun barrel. Get a brush, patches, and solvent. Check out youtube with a video by midway usa on how to clean a shotgun barrel.

centerfire guns needs to be cleaned often and you need to remove copper fowling with copper solvent. This will ensure a long barrel life and maximum performance.

I recomend clenzoil or CLP for your last pass with a patch after cleaning any gun. This will protect it till next time. Make sure to pull a CLEAN bore snake or patch when you get to the range to remove any oil from bore and chamber. Take note that if you fire a shotgun with an oiled chamber it will accelrate wear and increase recoil as the shell can slide back when fired.

orthopod
03-29-2012, 12:34 AM
Thanks for the advice! I will start doing the clean boresnake upon arrival at the range. So your saying DRY bore snakes all the time or just at the beginning of a shoot? For now I will avoid the bore guides and the rods and will be using the Otis for deeper cleans when I field strip. Since I'm going with the Otis what solvent/lube do you recommend...a 2 in 1 or a dedicated solvent and a dedicated lube? How often would you remove copper fowling with the copper solvent? I am getting an AR15 soon that I will be cleaning with the Otis and am wondering what solvent on top of the CLP and O85 I already have I will need for that one?

sholling
03-29-2012, 12:34 AM
.22lr rarely needs clean. I just pull the bore snake before and after shooting. Then clean with brush and rod when accuracy drops off. usually 1,000 - 3,000 rounds depending on the particular barrel and ammo.

Just wait till you see how much lead, plastic, and powder is stuck in your shotgun barrel. Get a brush, patches, and solvent. Check out youtube with a video by midway usa on how to clean a shotgun barrel.

centerfire guns needs to be cleaned often and you need to remove copper fowling with copper solvent. This will ensure a long barrel life and maximum performance.

I recomend clenzoil or CLP for your last pass with a patch after cleaning any gun. This will protect it till next time. Make sure to pull a CLEAN bore snake or patch when you get to the range to remove any oil from bore and chamber. Take note that if you fire a shotgun with an oiled chamber it will accelrate wear and increase recoil as the shell can slide back when fired.
Excellent advice! I agree completely.

orthopod
03-29-2012, 12:39 AM
For the bore cleaning portion with the Otis brush and patches do you think I should keep going with the CLP...switch to the O85...try some mpro7/Hoppes Elite? Can't smell like solvent as my wife and I live in a small apartment.

stockranger
03-29-2012, 9:55 AM
hoppe's #9 for solvent. Yeah it smells so get a METAL can with a lid. Keep the dirty patches in there while you are working with it. Keep the place opened up. Its not that bad of smell, the neighbors won't think you are cooking meth lol.

Remember copper solvent is different stuff that is made with amonia and also stinks. You'll need a bottle with that AR.

sholling
03-29-2012, 10:20 AM
I use M-Pro 7 cleaner and M-Pro 7 bore gel. It smells nice and does a really good job. For rust prevention I use CLP and for a lube I use CLP or a light grease depending on the needs of the weapon. It's 2012 and you don't need to stink up the place to clean your weapons.

orthopod
03-29-2012, 11:55 AM
Any of you use clp only for bore cleaning? That is what I'm doing with my new shotgun but If it's not enough I've heard #9 is great but in a little apartment with a pregnant wife I'm hoping to find something almost as good that is not as toxic...mpro7/hoppes elite?

orthopod
03-29-2012, 11:57 AM
Scholling,
How would you recommend using clp and the mpro7 products to take care of your weapons? That sounds like a good regimen.

orthopod
03-29-2012, 11:59 AM
What I meant is you clean the bore with bore gel and the rest of the weapon with cleaner and then lube everything with clp? Just want to make sure I get it right.

orthopod
03-29-2012, 8:14 PM
Ordered some mpro7 cleaner from amazon today. Will give it a try this weekend after I go shoot my shotgun. Saw the bore gel too....will I have problems with the mpro7 staying on my Otis patches...any reason for me to have the bore gel and the cleaner?

roushstage2
03-29-2012, 8:51 PM
I use Boresnakes. Just don't get the Viper one. I run it through a few times with just the cleaner on the front. Then add some oil near the rear and pull it through one last time. The end of the boresnake will pick up excess oil on the last pull.

orthopod
03-29-2012, 10:00 PM
I use Boresnakes. Just don't get the Viper one. I run it through a few times with just the cleaner on the front. Then add some oil near the rear and pull it through one last time. The end of the boresnake will pick up excess oil on the last pull.

Yes I'm going to order the regular one. Do you apply the cleaner and oil in a 360 degree fashion on the bore snake or is it fine to just do a spot? Seems like 360 would be the way to go but not sure how much these bore snakes compress in there. Also...will pulling it through more than once reintroduce gunk that got pulled out or is multiple passes the way to go?

sholling
03-29-2012, 10:14 PM
Scholling,
How would you recommend using clp and the mpro7 products to take care of your weapons? That sounds like a good regimen.

What I meant is you clean the bore with bore gel and the rest of the weapon with cleaner and then lube everything with clp? Just want to make sure I get it right.

Ordered some mpro7 cleaner from amazon today. Will give it a try this weekend after I go shoot my shotgun. Saw the bore gel too....will I have problems with the mpro7 staying on my Otis patches...any reason for me to have the bore gel and the cleaner?
The M-Pro 7 has a nice citrus smell and I keep the bore gel in my fridge to thicken it a bit more. But don't worry the liquid will work. I know of a range where they remove wood grips from their handguns and then just soak all of their rentals in tubs of M-Pro 7.

For a 10/22 I run a dry patch through with bore gel and then let it sit 20-30 minutes or so and let the chemicals do the hard work, then follow with a brush, let it sit a few more minutes and then follow with 3-4 dry patches. You don't want to over clean the barrel or do it very often. Subsonic match grade 22lr is moving too slow to lead up the barrel in less than 1000-2000rds. For the receiver I just wipe out what I can reach without disassembling using a rag. I do not remove the receiver from the stock more often than every few thousand rounds because you change point of impact slightly every time you do. A few drops of CLP on the bolt rails is plenty. For the barrel lightly coat the outside with CLP and wipe with a clean dry cloth, for the bore I run a patch that's damp with CLP down the barrel and I'm done if storing it for more than a few weeks, just run a dry patch or two before shooting. If I'm shooting the next day I follow the CLP patch with a couple of dry patches.

Bold action barrels are treated the same way but I thoroughly clean and lightly lube everything I can reach without removing the stock.

When you get to the range you'll want to fire a few "fouling shots" to tighten up the groups and check the sights before shooting for accuracy.

orthopod
03-29-2012, 10:31 PM
The M-Pro 7 has a nice citrus smell and I keep the bore gel in my fridge to thicken it a bit more. But don't worry the liquid will work. I know of a range where they remove wood grips from their handguns and then just soak all of their rentals in tubs of M-Pro 7.

For a 10/22 I run a dry patch through with bore gel and then let it sit 20-30 minutes or so and let the chemicals do the hard work, then follow with a brush, let it sit a few more minutes and then follow with 3-4 dry patches. You don't want to over clean the barrel or do it very often. Subsonic match grade 22lr is moving too slow to lead up the barrel in less than 1000-2000rds. For the receiver I just wipe out what I can reach without disassembling using a rag. I do not remove the receiver from the stock more often than every few thousand rounds because you change point of impact slightly every time you do. A few drops of CLP on the bolt rails is plenty. For the barrel lightly coat the outside with CLP and wipe with a clean dry cloth, for the bore I run a patch that's damp with CLP down the barrel and I'm done if storing it for more than a few weeks, just run a dry patch or two before shooting. If I'm shooting the next day I follow the CLP patch with a couple of dry patches.

Bold action barrels are treated the same way but I thoroughly clean and lightly lube everything I can reach without removing the stock.

When you get to the range you'll want to fire a few "fouling shots" to tighten up the groups and check the sights before shooting for accuracy.

Just saw this...AWESOME! I will be doing your regimen Scholling. I have the Otis kit so I may be substituting their pull through system to get the patches and brushes done. I would like to try out the straight rod and the bore guide as you recommended but am afraid those may be significantly more than the Otis 22 kit parts ~$11 on Amazon?

sholling
03-29-2012, 10:49 PM
Just saw this...AWESOME! I will be doing your regimen Scholling. I have the Otis kit so I may be substituting their pull through system to get the patches and brushes done. I would like to try out the straight rod and the bore guide as you recommended but am afraid those may be significantly more than the Otis 22 kit parts ~$11 on Amazon?
Good rods (I like Tipton but Dewey are very good) are about $30-35 and the brushes and such another $5-10. Dewy bore guides are $12 at MidwayUSA for a factory barrel, $13 for a .920 barrel.

stockranger
03-29-2012, 11:32 PM
sounds to me like you will be a lifelong shooter. If you get a good rod like the proshot, tipton, or dewey, it will last you the rest of your life and work on all .22 RF or CF. You can also do a cheap universal boreguide like the hoppes or dewey. Its worth the investment. not taking care of your 22lr will result in nothing more then bad groups and like I said its not a worry till 1,000 or more rounds... Once you get into the CF it will give you bad groups and cause premature wear of the barrel and that will cost you way more then a rod!

For the shotgun any old POS rod will work fine you can get one at walmart. Don't use your nice 22cal rod it will get bent. Use a thicker rod or cheapo 22 rod

Get one piece stainless or brass rods. Do not buy plastic or coated rods because they pick up grit and then you send the debri back down the bore. Whipe down the SS rod every pass or two to avoid sending dirt back into the bore.

The pull thru things are not a loss. They are nice to have too. Much easier to use in the field and totally adequate if you just fired a couple rounds hunting or something.

For just the patches a piece of weed whacker line pointed on one end and melt then press on table the other end till its the right diameter works great. Stab the patch and slide down then line. Very cheap method.

BTW on the 10/22 you should glass bed your action and get a torque screwdriver. If you bed it and set it to the same torque each time you will see little or no shift in POI when you take it out of the stock.

sholling
03-30-2012, 12:24 AM
BTW on the 10/22 you should glass bed your action and get a torque screwdriver. If you bed it and set it to the same torque each time you will see little or no shift in POI when you take it out of the stock.
Agreed, his rifle just isn't there yet. That's the advanced class. ;)

Chrushev
03-30-2012, 12:46 AM
For safety of the pregnant wife and kid get Ballistol, it doesnt smell bad, and its non toxic. Its been around for over 100 years and it is what Germans used in WW1 and WW2 for all their equipment.

Its really good stuff :) Hickok45 uses it.

roushstage2
03-30-2012, 12:55 AM
Yes I'm going to order the regular one. Do you apply the cleaner and oil in a 360 degree fashion on the bore snake or is it fine to just do a spot? Seems like 360 would be the way to go but not sure how much these bore snakes compress in there. Also...will pulling it through more than once reintroduce gunk that got pulled out or is multiple passes the way to go?When you aren't pulling it through the barrel, it's actually pretty flat. I just apply to both sides real quick. I'd imagine dirt gets reintroduced to a point, but the boresnake has a large contact area so I don't see it being a problem. My barrels are nice and shiny and clean afterwards.

orthopod
03-30-2012, 8:22 AM
Thanks for all the great advice guys! During my short time on Calguns I have seen that this place is a wealth of information. I ordered some mpro7 cleaner from Amazon yesterday and to my surprise it arrived this morning as I was heading out the door...I like that it is non-toxic and doesn't smell. I am going to look into the Tipton rods and the Dewey bore guide. My plan is to shoot the stock barrel for a bit while I raise funds for an aluminum bull barrel (am leaning towards the 16" tactical solutions aluminum barrel). The stock barrel will get only the boresnake/mpro7/clp treatment and when I get the bull barrel I will get a nice rod and bore guide to treat it right. I try to buy most my things on Amazon if I can as I get free prime shipping and am wondering if this is the one to get?:

http://www.amazon.com/Tipton-22-Caliber-36-Inch-Cleaning/dp/B000BY56FO

Any specific recommendations on the dewey vs lucas bore guide?

roushstage2
03-30-2012, 12:52 PM
Amazon is where I bought my Tipton rod from for my .308s (I too try to buy stuff from there; I've got free 2-day shipping). That rod is the correct one for .22s.

NotEnoughGuns
03-30-2012, 9:21 PM
I don't even clean my 22lr barrels. The chamber every once in a while. In all likely hood cleaning a 22lr barrel is doing more harm then good

Quinc
03-30-2012, 9:33 PM
.22 cal Boresnake is the best fitting boresnake I have found.(other rifle calibers are too loose) 1 - 2 pulls through my 10/22 and the barrel has a mirror finish. I switch between hoppes and Bore eliminator.

wizdumb
03-30-2012, 9:55 PM
Slip2000 products are some of the best I've used without the smell of Kroil or Hoppes. Plus , they smell like orange hand cleaner, so anyone else in your house/apt won't mind at all.

sholling
03-31-2012, 12:31 AM
Thanks for all the great advice guys! During my short time on Calguns I have seen that this place is a wealth of information. I ordered some mpro7 cleaner from Amazon yesterday and to my surprise it arrived this morning as I was heading out the door...I like that it is non-toxic and doesn't smell. I am going to look into the Tipton rods and the Dewey bore guide. My plan is to shoot the stock barrel for a bit while I raise funds for an aluminum bull barrel (am leaning towards the 16" tactical solutions aluminum barrel). The stock barrel will get only the boresnake/mpro7/clp treatment and when I get the bull barrel I will get a nice rod and bore guide to treat it right. I try to buy most my things on Amazon if I can as I get free prime shipping and am wondering if this is the one to get?:

http://www.amazon.com/Tipton-22-Caliber-36-Inch-Cleaning/dp/B000BY56FO

Any specific recommendations on the dewey vs lucas bore guide?
That rod should work for a 10/22 but call MidwayUSA and confirm it. If memory serves (it been a while since buying) a .22-.26 will work on a 10/22 but not (just for future reference) a CZ. You'll also need a 22cal jag and brush to fit the threads on the rod so pay attention to thread size and male vs female. Tiptons are pretty standard 8-32 female if memory serves but double check. You'll want short pistol style brushes rather than long rifle style so that the brush has room to clear the barrel before you reverse direction.

I'm not sure Lucas makes a bore guide for a 10/22 but the Dewey should do fine. Where Lucas kicks butt is bore guides for bolt actions. I have a Lucas for every one of my bolt action rifles.

orthopod
04-02-2012, 12:00 AM
When I got to the range today I immediately ran my clean 12 GA borensnake through my shotgun bore as suggested on here. After getting done with clay shooting for the afternoon (~100 rounds) I ran the bore snake through before storing the shotgun. Should I not have done this?...ran the once used bore snake (beginning of session) through the barrel at the end of the session?

Merc1138
04-02-2012, 12:07 AM
When I got to the range today I immediately ran my clean 12 GA borensnake through my shotgun bore as suggested on here. After getting done with clay shooting for the afternoon (~100 rounds) I ran the bore snake through before storing the shotgun. Should I not have done this?...ran the once used bore snake (beginning of session) through the barrel at the end of the session?

Why did you run the boresnake through it before shooting, if you cleaned it before you put it away last? And if that is the case, then I doubt you got anything on the boresnake to worry about having used it later before washing it.

orthopod
04-02-2012, 12:34 AM
a bore snake is not enough to clean your shotgun or rifle properly. The bore snake is good for in between cleanings and at the range. eventually every gun needs to be scrubbed with a brush. I do not use any solvent or oils on the bore snake.

Many owners of the 10/22 drill a hole in the back of the reciever which lets you clean the action using a rod without taking off the barrel. Barrel torque is crucial for the 10/22 to shoot good so once you got it set you don't want to take it off. Some guys thread the barrel or epoxy it onto the action.

Do yourself a favor and get a proshot stainless .22 cal rod. Then get a good bore guide like a lucas. you will want to run solvent patches, then a brush, then more patches.

.22lr rarely needs clean. I just pull the bore snake before and after shooting. Then clean with brush and rod when accuracy drops off. usually 1,000 - 3,000 rounds depending on the particular barrel and ammo.

Just wait till you see how much lead, plastic, and powder is stuck in your shotgun barrel. Get a brush, patches, and solvent. Check out youtube with a video by midway usa on how to clean a shotgun barrel.

centerfire guns needs to be cleaned often and you need to remove copper fowling with copper solvent. This will ensure a long barrel life and maximum performance.

I recomend clenzoil or CLP for your last pass with a patch after cleaning any gun. This will protect it till next time. Make sure to pull a CLEAN bore snake or patch when you get to the range to remove any oil from bore and chamber. Take note that if you fire a shotgun with an oiled chamber it will accelrate wear and increase recoil as the shell can slide back when fired.

That is why.

Merc1138
04-02-2012, 1:01 AM
Not really worth bothering with, but like I said, you wouldn't be getting anything on it(a little oil doesn't count) anyway.

roushstage2
04-02-2012, 12:08 PM
A film of oil from a cleaning is different than having it dripping with oil.

jdewolf
04-02-2012, 12:30 PM
Try Froglube. You can easily use it indoors and it smells minty fresh [think toothpaste]. Applied it to my DI AR15 and as far as lubrication it worked like a champ. I'd have no reservations of putting 1000rds downrange inbetween cleaning/lubrication. I've only had a chance to put 200rds so far. Also it requires a lot less effort to clean once you've applied it. Apparently it's supposed to get better the more you use it.

Also cleaned my 795 with it. Action usually felt a little gritty after a few hundred rounds. Felt smooth as butter after about 200rds of Federal Bulk and CCI Mini's.

Kendoka
04-02-2012, 1:19 PM
Used Hoppe's No 9 for years, but now (like many others on this thread) I use MPRO7 and SLP2000 now. But I still use Hoppe's as an aftershave. The wife digs it. :-)

As far as bore snakes go, I do not see a lot of value in their use. For sure, they should not be considered as a primary bore cleaning tool. To clean fouling from a barrel, you need to apply a liberal amount of solvent and let it sit a bit before swabbing it out. To do that with a boresnake you must apply a decent amount of solvent to the floss end of the snake. The floss end is the shredded material that first contacts the bore as you pull it thought the barrel. I have seen more than a few guys clean their rifles at the end of a shooting session by dumping solvent on the length of the snake itself. Since the snake is very absorbent, it sucks up the solvent like a sponge and virtually none contacts the bore itself. So if you are going to use one, check out Hoppe's web site or another source of detailed instructions inn how to use them.

Another problem I have seen with a bore a boresnake is that the floss itself get extremely dirty itself and sometimes worn to the point where it doesn't absorb solvent anymore. It is like using a cleaning rod with the same patch over and over again. But as a secondary cleaning tool, I guess they have a place in the world.

One other thing to consider is that cleaning the bore of a firearm (especially a rifle) can be like flying a plane with your eyes mostly closed. Let's face it, the only indication that anything is happening is what the patches look like as they come out of the bore. Okay, maybe it isn't exactly flying completely blind, but you aren't getting much chance to really see what is going on in that long, dark bore.

That is why I finally broke down and bought a bore scope several years ago. It was a big investment, but one that I feel paid off. Finally, I was able to examine close up every millimeter of the entire length of the bore and see what was there. On one old rifle, I found the very beginning of rust that presumably was caused by a residue of fouling which had in turn attracted enough moisture to start the rust growing. Luckily I got to it in time, but it took some considerable attention. By being able to scrub, swipe, and then recheck the exact area of interest, I was able to get rid of it. It still remains a little imperfection in the bore of a fine old (Pre-64 Winchester Model 70) rifle, but it let me get to a problem before it became big enough to affect accuracy.

One aspect of bore cleaning that I don't think was mentioned in this thread was the issue of copper fouling. Since Orthropod's question was about his Mossberg and his 10 22, copper fouling isn't an issue. But I will bet that there is a center fire rifle with some 55 grain, copper clad bullets traveling 3200 fps in his near future. Then the topic of copper fouling and what (maybe even if) you should do will come up. I am always interested in the various views on that topic myself.

As a final thought, I have heard the same story from gunsmiths, enthusiastics, and (especially) collectors for over 40 years. "More guns have been damaged cleaning them than ever by shooting them."

Kendoka
04-02-2012, 1:35 PM
I meant to add one other comment. I was at Front Sight last month for a 4 day class and met a guy that had a problem a 1911 that resulted from using Froglube with another cleaning product (presumably some conventional petroleum based solvent or lube). It was a cold rainy week and there was also heavy moisture in the mix. The end result is that had some "goop" formed in the internals of the pistol to the point where he had all kinds of stoppages. When he got back to the hotel, he detail stripped the pistol (and the mags) and got everything squeaky clean and started over with CLP. He had no problem for the next two days.

That makes me wonder if some of these "food grade", biodegradable, no smell solvents combine badly with conventional solvents. When you add in a lot of moisture (I.e., pouring down rain) do you get some risk of forming some decidedly NON-lubricating stuff. I had a mess in my car's windshield washer reservoir that was a similar problem. I replenished the system with an alternative window washing fluid, and a nasty scum formed that clogged up the lines.

Anybody have any experiences like this or know of specific combinations of products to avoid?

jdewolf
04-02-2012, 3:48 PM
I meant to add one other comment. I was at Front Sight last month for a 4 day class and met a guy that had a problem a 1911 that resulted from using Froglube with another cleaning product (presumably some conventional petroleum based solvent or lube). It was a cold rainy week and there was also heavy moisture in the mix. The end result is that had some "goop" formed in the internals of the pistol to the point where he had all kinds of stoppages. When he got back to the hotel, he detail stripped the pistol (and the mags) and got everything squeaky clean and started over with CLP. He had no problem for the next two days.

That makes me wonder if some of these "food grade", biodegradable, no smell solvents combine badly with conventional solvents. When you add in a lot of moisture (I.e., pouring down rain) do you get some risk of forming some decidedly NON-lubricating stuff. I had a mess in my car's windshield washer reservoir that was a similar problem. I replenished the system with an alternative window washing fluid, and a nasty scum formed that clogged up the lines.

Anybody have any experiences like this or know of specific combinations of products to avoid?

That would be something the manufacturer would have to answer, in regards to mixing products. However you shouldn't "mix" any products with Froglube to begin with. I'm not going to say it's the best cleaner, lubricant nor offers the best protection. All those claims are purely for marketing [and not Froglube specifically]. It simply works and that's why I use it.

It's like mixing standard anti-freeze with Dex type. Both types do the same thing [and honestly I have no clue what the advantage[s] of Dex type are]. However if you mix them together it turns into a nasty sludge. However if used in the proper application [separate from one another] they both do the same thing.

I hope that made sense :oji:

Kendoka
04-02-2012, 5:25 PM
Makes sense to me. I for one, try to stick with one set of cleaning products. Having said that, I suppose we all still switch from one product to another from time to time.

Since my posting, I did some online research on Froglube. One thing they state in their FAQ's is that you should stop using petrochemical lubricants when using Froglube since it will dissolve petrochemical based products "on contact". Dissolution doesn't mean that there isn't some residue left that has to be wiped away. That (combined with the rainy conditions) might have been the guy's problem.

Nonetheless, the incident has piqued my interest in Froglube. I will do some more research online and will try it out on a pistol. I have a Les Baer TRS wih about 40,000 rounds through it. It may be a good candidate for Froglube in that it claims to actually penetrate into the metal to help eliminate friction. They actually claim that a barrel conditioned with Froglube will yield 3-12% higher velocity. I have both a major and a minor .45 ACP load that I can chrono from the Baer after using Froglube for a while.

I will do a little study in this product and start a new thread here to report results.

orthopod
04-02-2012, 9:29 PM
Used Hoppe's No 9 for years, but now (like many others on this thread) I use MPRO7 and SLP2000 now. But I still use Hoppe's as an aftershave. The wife digs it. :-)

As far as bore snakes go, I do not see a lot of value in their use. For sure, they should not be considered as a primary bore cleaning tool. To clean fouling from a barrel, you need to apply a liberal amount of solvent and let it sit a bit before swabbing it out. To do that with a boresnake you must apply a decent amount of solvent to the floss end of the snake. The floss end is the shredded material that first contacts the bore as you pull it thought the barrel. I have seen more than a few guys clean their rifles at the end of a shooting session by dumping solvent on the length of the snake itself. Since the snake is very absorbent, it sucks up the solvent like a sponge and virtually none contacts the bore itself. So if you are going to use one, check out Hoppe's web site or another source of detailed instructions inn how to use them.

Another problem I have seen with a bore a boresnake is that the floss itself get extremely dirty itself and sometimes worn to the point where it doesn't absorb solvent anymore. It is like using a cleaning rod with the same patch over and over again. But as a secondary cleaning tool, I guess they have a place in the world.

One other thing to consider is that cleaning the bore of a firearm (especially a rifle) can be like flying a plane with your eyes mostly closed. Let's face it, the only indication that anything is happening is what the patches look like as they come out of the bore. Okay, maybe it isn't exactly flying completely blind, but you aren't getting much chance to really see what is going on in that long, dark bore.

That is why I finally broke down and bought a bore scope several years ago. It was a big investment, but one that I feel paid off. Finally, I was able to examine close up every millimeter of the entire length of the bore and see what was there. On one old rifle, I found the very beginning of rust that presumably was caused by a residue of fouling which had in turn attracted enough moisture to start the rust growing. Luckily I got to it in time, but it took some considerable attention. By being able to scrub, swipe, and then recheck the exact area of interest, I was able to get rid of it. It still remains a little imperfection in the bore of a fine old (Pre-64 Winchester Model 70) rifle, but it let me get to a problem before it became big enough to affect accuracy.

One aspect of bore cleaning that I don't think was mentioned in this thread was the issue of copper fouling. Since Orthropod's question was about his Mossberg and his 10 22, copper fouling isn't an issue. But I will bet that there is a center fire rifle with some 55 grain, copper clad bullets traveling 3200 fps in his near future. Then the topic of copper fouling and what (maybe even if) you should do will come up. I am always interested in the various views on that topic myself.

As a final thought, I have heard the same story from gunsmiths, enthusiastics, and (especially) collectors for over 40 years. "More guns have been damaged cleaning them than ever by shooting them."

You are correct...there is a mid-length gas system AR15 on order:) As far as the boresnake goes even though it is easy I am thinking of going strictly with the Otis on my shotgun and 10/22. I was using the boresnake at the range this weekend and I'm not entirely convinced that I NEED the boresnake and my Otis. My plan for the shotgun is going to be a patch of mpro7 (possibly the bore gel) immediately after I am done shooting. That cleaner will sit for the 20-45 minute drive home (depending what range I go to) and upon getting home I will run a patch up the bore to clean out the broken down gunk and then another patch of CLP or O85 up the bore before storage...that should amount to less than 3 minutes of actual cleaning time per range visit which is efficient in my book. When I decide to do a deep clean once in a blue moon I'll probably do the solvent, brass brush, patches until clean, oil, dry patches song and dance. For the 10/22 I'll probably do nothing until 1000s of rounds have gone by or the groups start opening up and then do a Otis brush (maybe nylon?) and patches routine with either my Otis or with a Tipton carbon fiber if I have the time and receiver drilled out by then. Main reason for wanting to go with the Otis is because I have it and I like the idea of breach to muzzle. As I have learned on this forum though the AR15 will get more attention in terms of a nice carbon fiber rod that will hopefully be the same one that is used on the 22 even though the 22 will be getting a full cleaning very infrequently thanks to all of your advice:)

AeroEngi
04-03-2012, 3:45 PM
Get yourself a Dewey cleaning rod and this (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/845919/dewey-heavy-duty-muzzle-bore-guide-ruger-10-22-factory-barrel). This setup works perfectly for me.