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Mike_Hawk
04-17-2007, 1:04 AM
I'm not sure how to phrase this, but will anyone (LEO or otherwise) ever inspect my firearms out of the blue, or even at all in my lifetime?

The reason I ask is because I have the whole OLL thing going on, fixed magazine. If for some reason I need to take out my magazine for maintenance or whatever and store it that way until I go to take it out again to shoot, do I REALLY need to worry about getting in trouble?

My initial thought is that I shouldn't worry about it, but sometimes you can't help but get paranoid and think that there's a sting operation building up on you and waiting to happen.

All this is considering I have a clean record and doing nothing out of the ordinary. Am I just too worried?

CalNRA
04-17-2007, 1:09 AM
TAKE OFF THAT PISTOL GRIP BEFORE YOU TAKE OUT THE MAGAZINE!!!!

Get an SRB if you want for grab-and-use.

you don't want to be caught with an open magwell with a PG, lock kit or not.

grammaton76
04-17-2007, 1:12 AM
There is no need, ever, to leave a weapon in an assault weapon configuration "for maintenance".

Random police inspections aren't likely to happen, but things can happen. If paramedics, firefighters, etc happen to be in your house for ANY reason... expect to get your weapon reported. And if you happen to have some idiot friend who thinks "he has an M-16"... you're likely to get reported too.

If you're really sure that there's going to be a need to have the magazine removed, then either go gripless or use a bullet button. Under NO circumstances should you open the magwell on a sporting conversion or original prince50 lock, and leave it that way with evli features attached! It's just begging for trouble!

Jicko
04-17-2007, 1:13 AM
I'm not sure how to phrase this, but will anyone (LEO or otherwise) ever inspect my firearms out of the blue, or even at all in my lifetime?

The reason I ask is because I have the whole OLL thing going on, fixed magazine. If for some reason I need to take out my magazine for maintenance or whatever and store it that way until I go to take it out again to shoot, do I REALLY need to worry about getting in trouble?

My initial thought is that I shouldn't worry about it, but sometimes you can't help but get paranoid and think that there's a sting operation building up on you and waiting to happen.

All this is considering I have a clean record and doing nothing out of the ordinary. Am I just too worried?

Don't do it man....

We don't want to hear another case of "arrest" of one of us...

No one will pity you if you intentionally violate what is KNOWN to be illegal... ie. exactly what you are thinking about doing.... taking out the fixed magazine = building an AW..... highly illegal... felony.....

Matt C
04-17-2007, 1:16 AM
I'm just going to say this once, and I hope I don't piss off the mods but;

DON'T BE F'N STUPID!!!


It's a felony, like stealing a car, or robbing a bank. Do you do those things when no one is around? No, you don't. You have already proved you can't keep your mouth shut, so don't even THINK about it. All it takes is a domestic situation, a pissed off neighbor, or a broken tail light. Keep the mag FIXED or go featureless. I hope this ticks with you. *END RANT*

Sorry for the strong words, but I have already seen one good member go to jail (LAST WEEK), and this stuff hurts the entire OLL situation. Stay legal.

Mike_Hawk
04-17-2007, 1:39 AM
Whoa now, sorry to hit some nerves. For the record I've been legal the whole time with my OLL and will continue to be that way!

I just wanted to know if LEO's comes around and does "check-ups" on your firearms for any reason and had to cite some type of example. Grammaton76 had the type of answer I was looking for:

"Random police inspections aren't likely to happen, but things can happen. If paramedics, firefighters, etc happen to be in your house for ANY reason... expect to get your weapon reported. And if you happen to have some idiot friend who thinks "he has an M-16"... you're likely to get reported too."

And I don't want to piss anyone off either, I apologize. I also appreciate the way we look out for each other so we can continue to preserve our rights. Thank you!

hawk1
04-17-2007, 2:12 AM
I sure wish you'd change your screen name. Kind of making me look bad.
For those that care this is not me.

Richie Rich
04-17-2007, 6:44 AM
"Random police inspections aren't likely to happen, but things can happen. If paramedics, firefighters, etc happen to be in your house for ANY reason... expect to get your weapon reported. And if you happen to have some idiot friend who thinks "he has an M-16"... you're likely to get reported too."



If the police happen to be at my home for some reason (break in, medical issue, me calling to report something) and they "discover" my locked gun safe, do they have any P.C to ask me to open said safe?

I would imagine not, but since a locked gun case in a car discovered during a traffic stop is PC for said officer to "inspect" my weapons, then could that possibly extend to a safe located in a home?

One would think that the key required for a police officer to get my safe open is a signed search warrant.

E Pluribus Unum
04-17-2007, 6:47 AM
If the police happen to be at my home for some reason (break in, medical issue, me calling to report something) and they "discover" my locked gun safe, do they have any P.C to ask me to open said safe?

I would imagine not, but since a locked gun case in a car discovered during a traffic stop is PC for said officer to "inspect" my weapons, then could that possibly extend to a safe located in a home?

One would think that the key required for a police officer to get my safe open is a signed search warrant.

Rules for the home are completely different. They must SEE something illegal in plain view... they have no right to snoop.

grammaton76
04-17-2007, 7:13 AM
I sure wish you'd change your screen name. Kind of making me look bad.
For those that care this is not me.

Eh, if his username were "mike_hawk1", then it might be easily confused. I don't think you'll end up with any confusion issues here.

grammaton76
04-17-2007, 7:19 AM
If the police happen to be at my home for some reason (break in, medical issue, me calling to report something) and they "discover" my locked gun safe, do they have any P.C to ask me to open said safe?

I would imagine not, but since a locked gun case in a car discovered during a traffic stop is PC for said officer to "inspect" my weapons, then could that possibly extend to a safe located in a home?

Another thing you have to consider is that if you're lazy/distractable enough to leave a weapon you're "working" on in an illegal AW config, then you're also lazy/distractable enough to leave it out of the safe too. No if's and's or but's here. It is pure laziness and no defense can be made for it.

One would think that the key required for a police officer to get my safe open is a signed search warrant.

Which they'd have if you had an idiot friend telling the cops you 'have an M-16'. Don't rule this possibility out; it's how the swimmingpoolguy thing went down. Except in that case, it was the father, not the friend.

fairfaxjim
04-17-2007, 8:27 AM
You never know what goofy thing will cause the LE to show up at your door. I live just on the outside finge of cell phone coverage - they don't really work there, but you can get an occasional signal. Last week end while I was in the shower, my wife answered the door and two Police officers were there "investigating" a cell phone 911 hang up. The story the LEO's gave my wife was that they traced it to "near here" and were investigating to see if it was an emergency or not. It seems that there was a car vs. bicycle accident "over the hill" outside of cell phone coverage shortly before the call. They were assuming a passing motorist tried to call it in as soon as they got a signal, and then it cut out. They said they still had to check it out.

It sounds like a goofy story to me, but the cops in my area don't have squat to do. I also know that they are on 911 hangups like pit bulls, and if they don't like your answer when they show up in a huff at your door for something you don't have a clue is happening, they get EXTREMELY aggressive. (I had them draw down on me when I acted stupid and closed the door on them after being woken up by them on a 911 hangup call, only to find they had the wrong house - there are four in my immediate area with the same number, just different street name!) And we have ZERO violent crime where I live.

The moral of this story is - you never know, so don't take ANY chances when it is so easy to avoid the AW condition - at all times. Bwiese has posted before that most AW busts are made in conjuction with some other LE activity, not for the AW itself.

eta34
04-17-2007, 8:33 AM
Regarding the safe issue...we would have to get a search warrant to open that thing. Also, please use the recent examples of arrests as an example. We (LEO's) as a whole have no clue about the OLL deal; have your paperwork handy and don't leave it out of configuration for ANY reason.

Mike_Hawk
04-17-2007, 11:18 AM
Great info guys, now that's what I was looking for. Just trying to cover my behind and needed to understand how those types of things went down. After all, I don't want to be arrested, become another one of these cases, and have a negative impact on OLL's, right?

I'm sure there's also some good info here to be had for future (and new) OLLers and they'd also be able to see that you cannot be careless with it.

BTW, what paperwork should I have with it to keep myself safe? I've already printed out the OLL FAQ and AR/AK memo and take it with me when I go to the range and such.

bwiese
04-17-2007, 11:40 AM
Never, ever - for even a microsecond - have your rifle in an illegal configuration.

(And there really is no need to do so. Spend the extra 30sec to take off whatever evil features are present before working on a fixed mag.)

There is no mandated inspection. However, 85+% of all CA AW violations are due to domestic situations. This was told to me in person by a noted CA gun lawyer.

Also, a cop has the right to inspect weapons being transported in a car (if he
knows they are there!)

There are a wide variety of reasons a cop can enter your home, even thru no fault of your own - emergencies, other family members in distress, misdirected 911 call, etc.

An acquaitance lost his AR10T that way - it turned out it was unregistered, and he'd thought the DROS procedure was the registration (he'd purchased it in the late 90s). Cops came to his home where his elderly father was in some sort of distress (aided by a slightly unstable brother). Somehow the gun was found - not sure if consent was given, etc. Cops were cool as they could be (relatively speaking) they gave the scope + mount + ammo, etc. back and didn't file AW charges.

threadcrapper
04-17-2007, 12:50 PM
they get EXTREMELY aggressive. (I had them draw down on me when I acted stupid and closed the door on them after being woken up by them on a 911 hangup call, only to find they had the wrong house - there are four in my immediate area with the same number, just different street name!) And we have ZERO violent crime where I live.


So everytime someone calls 911 the cops roll up on your house anytime of the day or night? That's a fun way to live. Even if you're 125% legal at all times, that would get old after a while. I like the Police, but that still would get old. It looks bad to the neighbors have units at your house, too. They don't understand it's a cell phone mistake.

hawk1
04-17-2007, 2:54 PM
Eh, if his username were "mike_hawk1", then it might be easily confused. I don't think you'll end up with any confusion issues here.


I wasn't too concerned with the "hawk1" My real name is Mike Hawk that's why I thought WTF? :eek:

jaymz
04-17-2007, 3:25 PM
If you're really sure that there's going to be a need to have the magazine removed, then either go gripless or use a bullet button. Under NO circumstances should you open the magwell on a sporting conversion or original prince50 lock, and leave it that way with evli features attached! It's just begging for trouble!

Let me start by saying that I NEVER have an open magwell out in public, but........How come it's ok with a bullet button, but not with a P50 (or similar)? A tool is required to remove them, and no tool is required to re-insert the mag. The only difference I see is that w/prince 50, you need to tighten the setscrew after replacing the mag to lock it in place, whereas the BB is "passive" - once the mag is in place, it's already fixed. I don't recall seeing anything that says how much time you have to fix the mag, it just needs to be fixed. Not questioning whether you are right or wrong, I just don't know why there is a difference and my curiousity is killing me!:D

grammaton76
04-17-2007, 3:43 PM
Let me start by saying that I NEVER have an open magwell out in public, but........How come it's ok with a bullet button, but not with a P50 (or similar)? A tool is required to remove them, and no tool is required to re-insert the mag. The only difference I see is that w/prince 50, you need to tighten the setscrew after replacing the mag to lock it in place, whereas the BB is "passive" - once the mag is in place, it's already fixed. I don't recall seeing anything that says how much time you have to fix the mag, it just needs to be fixed. Not questioning whether you are right or wrong, I just don't know why there is a difference and my curiousity is killing me!:D

The deal is that when you unscrew a P50, you have a normal, free-state-spec, finger-operated magazine release. That is a detachable magazine, and your gun's an assault weapon if features are attached to it while it's in that state.

However, if you empty the magwell with a bullet button, using a tool, at no point does it become possible for you to detach the magazine without a tool during the process. Thus, it does not transition your gun to assault weapon status.

That having been said, it's a good idea to transport them with a magazine locked in place simply to avoid LE hassle. But as the BB becomes more and more common, this will be less of an issue.

I would feel no concern about detaching the magazine to reload, using a tool, at the range while surrounded by CHP officers. Next Monday night, I will most likely be doing just that. The only really big concern I have, is to make sure that everyone in my group is WELL AWARE of the requirement to NOT insert the blasted USGI 30rd mags into the fixed-mag rifle. :)

I am seriously considering leaving the 30's at home whenever I have a range run that includes the fixed-mag rifle, just for that reason.

jaymz
04-17-2007, 7:06 PM
The deal is that when you unscrew a P50, you have a normal, free-state-spec, finger-operated magazine release. That is a detachable magazine, and your gun's an assault weapon if features are attached to it while it's in that state. However, if you empty the magwell with a bullet button, using a tool, at no point does it become possible for you to detach the magazine without a tool during the process. Thus, it does not transition your gun to assault weapon status.

That makes sense. I guess I need to get out of the office and breathe some fresh air more often! That explanation was entirley too simple for me not to be able to figure out on my own! Thanks! :D