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View Full Version : New Swiss rifle via Simpson Ltd.


1-M-42
03-23-2012, 8:41 PM
FedEx dropped off my first Swiss M1911 today. Matching numbers, privatized, braided sling. Stock is in incredible shape and the bore is, well it's a Swiss rifle so that's a no brainer. Barrel looks to be a commercial replacement, sharp, crisp and bright. No soldier tag, it's the first Swiss rifle that I've obtained that didn't have one, a little disappointed but more then offset by how nice the rifle is. Serial number indicates 1912, if I'm reading the markings correctly it was refurbed in 1949.

I'll be shooting it this weekend I hope. Range report to follow.
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0316.jpg?t=1332563574
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0317.jpg?t=1332563574
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0314.jpg?t=1332563568

pro-nra
03-23-2012, 9:21 PM
Nice! I received my two 1911 Monday. One had no soldier's tag but the other made up for it as it had two.:D I'm redoing the stock on one as it had a thick Swiss varnish. Once finished I'll take some pics and post it.

CSACANNONEER
03-23-2012, 9:51 PM
I picked up a sporterized 1911 a few weeks ago. I really need to load up a batch of ammo and see how it shoots.

Latigo
03-24-2012, 5:38 AM
Very nice, I-M-42, and take my word for it. It's very highly unlikely that barrel is a commercial replacement. If it it, you probably have the only one in the US. Those sharp lands/grooves are typical of that rifle.
You're going to be amazed at the accuracy of a 1911.
Congrats!

CSA, you say once before that your sporter is still in the original caliber?

CSACANNONEER
03-24-2012, 7:05 AM
CSA, you say once before that your sporter is still in the original caliber?

Haven't checked yet.

1-M-42
03-24-2012, 7:51 AM
Lat, that info came from Simpsons, I have not torn it apart yet. Why would it be unlikely? Did they only do military replacements? I was hoping you'd check it out and give me accurate info!!

Also, what's the ETA on the clamp on mounts????

Latigo
03-24-2012, 8:05 AM
If Simpson's told you that then it's true, and you have a rather rare arsenal re-barreled 1911sr rifle. Bob has always personally selected his rifles in Europe.
I have to say I'm envious and I'll be waiting for a range report with bated breath. That is a very cool rifle to have.

I'll tell you aout the 1911 mounts in a bit. I have a quick job to do in the armoury.

pro-nra
03-24-2012, 8:28 AM
Latigo, when will the mount be ready? I have three that needs it. IYO, is the 1911 more accurate than the K31? The sight radius is about 4" longer so I would think that adds to the ease of target acquisition. Also the barrel bushing sort of like "floats" the barrel somewhat but not totally as it is still trapped within the bushing and the fore tip.

Here are my 1911 children. Not taken them out to the range yet.

http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt57/pro-nra/DSC09628.jpg
http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt57/pro-nra/DSC09632.jpg
http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt57/pro-nra/DSC09633.jpg
http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt57/pro-nra/DSC09634.jpg

1-M-42
03-24-2012, 8:42 AM
Lat, Here is the link to the description from Simpsons. I don't know enough about them to be able to know what to look for. When you get free, could you give be a brief explanation? I selected it mostly because they told me the barrel was so good when I called. Now you have me all a flutter......

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=18272&osCsid=7b10bc76bc4ba1461351cd7c29940c25

Also, what is the significance of the braided sling? Is that something that the duffers used after the rifle left military service? I love these rifles, can't get enough of them. I took my wife out Thursday, she shot my K31 with the K3 Weaver. She rocked.

Latigo
03-24-2012, 9:13 AM
Ok A few mintues before lunch. :D Since it was sold as a commercial, the barrel was not made here. There are/were only two commercial barrel makers for Swiss rifles. One was in Neuhausen Switzerland and has been out of business for a long time. The other is Lothar Walther Co. in Germany and they still do make them on request, but we're talking about pretty big dollars and the export fees on something firearm related. That is not a usual rifle at all and you're lucky to have it. My Father is of the opinion that the price was too low, but who knows the history behind it?
The braided sling is a Swiss parade or show sling.
Back in a bit with 1911 mount news.

1-M-42
03-24-2012, 9:25 AM
WOW! You made my day. Now, if the weather cooperates, I'm going to go try it out!

Latigo
03-24-2012, 9:31 AM
The 1911 Mounts. Long story short... Laser cutting is the one thing we don't do, so we farmed the pillars out to a shop in Southern Montana that had a great rep.
Not exactly. Dad turned the pillars down. A waterjet cutter in town teamed up with a shop in northern Montana and we heard about it a week and a half ago. We got the first pillars back from them on friday. Now they go into our CNC for slotting, drilling and rail mfg. monday morning.

From there to assembly and then bluing. The first 7 go to our distributors in the US, Canada, Australia, Switzerland and the Netherlands. We'll have to have all positive comments on their own test results and we'll go into full manufacture. All of them should be able to answer within two days at least. This mount will also fit the 96/11 because of how we made it.

I'll keep you posted. Grafs will be the first US dealer. I'll be sending them the photography for the website next week.

BTW..... A beautiful family you have pro-nra!

Latigo
03-24-2012, 9:32 AM
I-MK-42, if it doesn't shsoot sub-moa the first group, I'd just give up. You can send it to me as a simple curiosity/wall hanger. :D

Latigo
03-24-2012, 9:41 AM
Pro-Nra, the opinion of most all of us here at SP is that the 1911 is inherently more accurate than the k31, but it's more cumbersome to haul around and the Swiss soldiers on horseback appreciated the k31.

You'll hear arguements back and forth about this one, and they're not factually real far apart, the an experienced shooter of the Swiss rifle would most likely side with the 1911sr.

Yup. Very nice kids you have there. :D

1-M-42
03-24-2012, 10:58 AM
Latigo, I may be interpreting the receiver markings incorrectly. The "49" under the "P" means it was privatized in 1949?? The "33" beneath the serial number is the year it was refurbed?? I reviewed the markings page but without knowing the context of each symbol I'm a little confused. The first pic in my original post has all of the receiver markings.

Thanks, I really appreciate all you time and, of course, knowledge.

Latigo
03-24-2012, 11:13 AM
I'm learning all the time. I just happen to have Swiss books, a Dad and a friend who it without a doubt the most knowledgeable man on the planet about Swiss firearms and militaria. Guisan in the Netherlands. He's headed for Switzerland again tomorrow on a show and buying trip. He finds the coolest stuff in odd places. If he can't get it, nobody can.

And..... It looks like you got it all right. :)

1-M-42
03-24-2012, 11:26 AM
Oh, so that's where Guisan is from. He's a great guy, very helpful.
Well, I wish this rifle could talk...of course, I say that about ALL of my vintage rifles...

pro-nra
03-24-2012, 2:04 PM
Guisan in the Netherlands. He's headed for Switzerland again tomorrow on a show and buying trip. He finds the coolest stuff in odd places. If he can't get it, nobody can.

And..... It looks like you got it all right. :)

Thanks Latigo for the kinds words about my three 1911 mom & dad and the K11 midget. I kind of worried that my other K31s might be jealous of thier new safe mate. I figred the 1911 would be inherently more accurate than the K31s. However, Frank think the 96/11 is even more accurate. I guess I have to get some 96/11 as well. Frank "IS THE MAN" about Swiss rifles. I bought a front sight pusher from him and came in just two days ago.

Latigo
03-24-2012, 2:26 PM
He's been a friend of my Dad's for a lot of years and he's "the man" about a lot more than the rifles. He's the one with an inside track to Swiss Products and he and Dad confer about a lot of things. They both have Skype and speak often.
I'm not positive about the 96/11. I can't find any positive differences in accuracy, but I think you'd have to have a large cross-section to prove of disprove it.
Guisan isn't allowed to shoot in his own country, and he doesn't reload, but his knowledge of cartridges and their characteristics is staggering.

1-M-42
03-24-2012, 4:10 PM
OK, ran out to OldShooter32's house to try it out. Cold with about 10-15 mph winds, iron sights with just a front rest. Paper pistol target set at just under 100 yards and steel plate at 140 yrds. First five rounds on paper, I called both flyers (see pic), trigger will take some getting used to. I'd say it's around 3 pounds, whomever had this gun back in Switzerland knew what he was doing. Crisp break, very, very, nice. Finished 10 rounds of GP-11 on paper (2nd pic) and then 5 on the steel plate. The group at 140 yards was nothing short of spectacular. 10 round group on paper was unbelievable, discounting the flyers that were all me. Latigo, you were right, this rifle is well above average. Too bad I'm such a lousy shot! I'm thinking this one will be my open sight, silhouette, rifle for sure.

http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0320.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0321.jpg
http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww106/waughr/IMG_0322.jpg

Latigo
03-24-2012, 4:42 PM
Congrats! Nice! :D

Tanner68
03-24-2012, 7:51 PM
Great thread. Thanks guys. Love learning all about Swiss rifles. Maybe I will need to round out the K31 family with some of the older cousins.

rojocorsa
03-24-2012, 8:12 PM
Quick question:

Does Lothar-Walther have anything to do with Karl Walther Waffenfabrik?

Latigo
03-25-2012, 6:52 AM
Karl Walther was the founder of the Walther Firearms plant. Lothar is one of his sons. He specializes in barrels. My custom build AR10 has a Lothar Walther Naval contract barrel. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Pete013.jpg

pro-nra
03-25-2012, 7:06 AM
Lothar Walter barrel blanks are used in a lot of super accurate custom rifles today. One of my 10/22 started as a Lothar Walther barrel blank.

rojocorsa
03-25-2012, 3:21 PM
Karl Walther was the founder of the Walther Firearms plant. Lothar is one of his sons. He specializes in barrels. My custom build AR10 has a Lothar Walther Naval contract barrel. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Pete013.jpg

You mean, there are more than just Swiss Rifles in your life? :eek:


J/k. AR-10s are the only modern .308 SLRs that catch my eye for some reason. I'd love an LMT MWS some day.


If you like AR-10s and I like AR-10s, does that mean that great minds think alike? :p

Latigo
03-25-2012, 3:59 PM
That must be it! :D I have another one that's technically a C&R, but it's a one of three ever made.
It's a Don McCoy triple pillared, single-shot M1 Garand. This is a side-by-side comparison with a standard issue M1 Garand.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/IMG_2045.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/IMG_2046.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/IMG_1365.jpg

pro-nra
03-25-2012, 6:12 PM
Darn that thing is on steroids!

Latigo
03-26-2012, 3:32 AM
It's a very long story and someday I'll write about it because the rifle came to me just three weeks before Mr. McCoy passed away. My Dad spoke with him then and I have the DVD of him explaining the build process of my rifle.

But I will tell you what started the whole contact with him thing.
I later found out it was built as a single shot High Masters rifle, but not know ing that, I loaded and entire 8 round clip, carefully aimed from prone, lightly holding the rifle from a sandbag rest, gently squeezed the trigger and promptly sent all 8 rounds down range in a heartbeat.

This is starting to look like a definite hi-jack, so my apologies to I-M-42. I'll continue this story on a seperate thread later.

rojocorsa
03-26-2012, 9:32 AM
Interested to read the story on that Garand and what sets it apart from a normal one---as I have never seen or heard of one of those before.

Latigo
03-26-2012, 9:58 AM
I'll put a thread together when I get a chance.

Mutant
03-27-2012, 8:55 AM
Karl Walther was the founder of the Walther Firearms plant. Lothar is one of his sons. He specializes in barrels. My custom build AR10 has a Lothar Walther Naval contract barrel. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v87/zfk3155/Pete013.jpg

Nice picture Latigo but I always thought you were older.

Latigo
03-27-2012, 9:01 AM
Nope. This is my older brother. :D
My son, Julian Ricochet is already into the rifles. I gave him his first one this month. Its the original Walnut Chipmunk that my Dad gave my sister around 1982, and then to me in 1991. Now it's Julians.

sacto929
03-27-2012, 10:01 AM
Those Chipmunks are great little rifles. My 7 and 5 yo daughters shoot mine. The 7 yo likes shooting pro-nra's tricked out 10/22 and Kimber 82 with their scopes better, but she's pretty darn good with irons.

Latigo
03-27-2012, 10:04 AM
Daughters and rifles. Perfect! :D

1-M-42
04-30-2012, 10:00 AM
Shot the M-1911 at the Sac Valley Vintage Military Rifle Long Distance match yesterday. Wow, it performed beyond expectations. I was leading the match through the 300, 500 and 600 yards distances....then the wheels fell off. 800 yard distance, last relay, hot and the wind picked up. 5 to 7 MPH following wind that was switching back and forth. Oh well, the rifle sure did it's job too bad I couldn't follow suit.

For those of you looking for an incredibly accurate rifle, the M-1911 is a great choice.

Latigo
04-30-2012, 10:15 AM
Wayyy cool! I'm a huge fan too! :D

Mutant
05-01-2012, 8:24 AM
Lat, Here is the link to the description from Simpsons. I don't know enough about them to be able to know what to look for. When you get free, could you give be a brief explanation? I selected it mostly because they told me the barrel was so good when I called. Now you have me all a flutter......

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_info.php?products_id=18272&osCsid=7b10bc76bc4ba1461351cd7c29940c25

Also, what is the significance of the braided sling? Is that something that the duffers used after the rifle left military service? I love these rifles, can't get enough of them. I took my wife out Thursday, she shot my K31 with the K3 Weaver. She rocked.

Bil - May you suffer in a cloud of rancid pig pharts! :(I had that rifle marked as one of the three I was going to choose from and then some sneeky Swiss lover bought it before I could pull the trigger.:chris: Of course I did pick another one, which I am waiting for, and now need the mount like the rest of you.

Anyway, see you at the range.

PS - do you have a favorite handload? I use a light one --privi brass, 42.5 AA 4064, 175 Nosler Comp and CCI BR-2s. It is on the low speed side but is soft on my rifle.

Last practice my partner picked out six clay targets on the 400 bank for my 6 last bullets. Got all six. A best day for my meger skills but it happily showed the load and the K 31s potential - less than a MOA at 400!!!!

Ford

oftenindeed
05-01-2012, 10:26 AM
Are there any concerns shooting GP11 or a similar reload out of either the 96/11 or m1911? I have my eye set on a 96/11 soon but only want it if I can stick with GP11. Thanks!

Latigo
05-01-2012, 10:48 AM
Go here and read post #5. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=528460

1-M-42
05-01-2012, 10:49 AM
Go ahead, no issues whatsoever. If I'm not mistaken the GP-11 and 1911 series where made for each other and the 96/11 is upgraded to 1911 specs

oftenindeed
05-01-2012, 3:24 PM
Ah, thanks. Sorry I missed that before. I had looked through that thread but overlooked that post and read somewhere else about lugs at the rear of the bolt contributing to a weaker design. Thanks again!