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View Full Version : AR-15 or M1a Socom 16


escon1
03-22-2012, 1:40 PM
Which one and why?

Baconator
03-22-2012, 1:53 PM
You are talking about two completely different guns. One is a light .223 gun, the other is a heavy .308. What is your purpose? It's like asking what is better, a compact car or a pickup truck.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Iggy
03-22-2012, 1:58 PM
Between those two? The AR of the same amount of a Socom 16. Now if we were talking about a M1A Scout, that might be a different answer.

Like posted above, they are two different platforms. What are your needs?

skkeeter
03-22-2012, 2:02 PM
2 very different platforms and calibers. Now if I could only have one of them and that was it? I'd pick an M1A scout. But having both is much better:43:

MXRider
03-22-2012, 2:04 PM
How much money do you have for ammo?

Omega13device
03-22-2012, 2:16 PM
Which one and why?

For what?

Hunting? Deer, pigs, coyotes, prairie dogs, or ???
Plinking?
Home defense?
Precision shooting?
Carbine classes?

It's a pointless question unless you specify what you want to use it for. Or maybe you're just trolling.

Packy14
03-22-2012, 2:18 PM
socoms are kinda trash... overly heavy.

Butzbach
03-22-2012, 2:21 PM
Which one and why?

It's really the only question you need to answer.

supermanuf
03-22-2012, 2:26 PM
OP, I was in the same situation a few months ago, except I had one more dog in the fight--I couldn't decide between an AR-15, M1A Socom 16, or M1A Scout. I loved the .308 caliber and loved the Scout, but the Socom sure looked fun (I had no interest in the Socom II with the rails... changed the classic lines of the rifle too much). On top of that, when it came to the Scout, I couldn't even decide between the classic walnut stock or the sleeker black synthetic--so it was really like choosing between FOUR rifles!

Well, since I couldn't choose, I just went with the AR because it was cheaper, and cheaper to shoot... so it would give me something to do while I decided on an M1A. And I'll tell you this--getting the AR got the black rifle/tactical carbine fever out of my system--and now I've made up my mind that the Scout in Walnut Stock is the one I want, without a doubt. I knew I'd want an AR eventually anyway, regardless of which M1A I chose, so I'm glad I got it first.

escon1
03-22-2012, 2:27 PM
You are talking about two completely different guns. One is a light .223 gun, the other is a heavy .308. What is your purpose? It's like asking what is better, a compact car or a pickup truck.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Self defense for SHTF.

mmrx2
03-22-2012, 2:28 PM
socom because i'm tired of ar's. but you really can't compare the 2, they're totally different.

Johnnyfres
03-22-2012, 2:43 PM
Do you want to hit the zombies from close range or from far away? :D

escon1
03-22-2012, 2:56 PM
both......;)

cntrolsguy
03-22-2012, 3:03 PM
both......;)

SOCOM!!!

Prc329
03-22-2012, 3:04 PM
I wouldnt get a socom. The gas system is different then a normal M14/M1A.

Butzbach
03-22-2012, 3:50 PM
I wouldnt get a socom. The gas system is different then a normal M14/M1A.

What's your point?

Iggy
03-22-2012, 4:25 PM
What's your point?

Probably that he should go with a Scout if he goes with an M1A. With a rifle that big and heavy, 2" isn't going to kill you. Plus you get better ballistics with 18 than you do with 16 in a 308.

Prc329
03-22-2012, 4:26 PM
What's your point?

I dont like it. The M1A Gas system worked pretty good. Parts are readily available. The one on the socom had to be reworked to work with the shorter barrel. You have to go to Springfield for parts since it doesn't use off the shelf parts. That and the rail IMHO is just to heavy. Ive owned an M14 and played with the socom and to be honest I did not like it. A scout would be a beast. I would get a scout over a socom in a hot minute.

glockman19
03-22-2012, 4:41 PM
Neither....M1A Scout

slopoke
03-22-2012, 5:27 PM
I wouldnt get a socom. The gas system is different then a normal M14/M1A.

I don't own a SOCOM, but I do believe the only difference is the front cylinder lock is aslo a sight attach point. Gas cylinder, pistons are all interchangeable.

In regards to the original question. Get the M1A in the flavor of your choice now. Buy an AR down the road when you build up your firearm funds again. One word of caution. One M1A is not enough. I'm working on my fifth based on an LRB M14 receiver, with a Krieger heavy pattern barrel.

Prc329
03-22-2012, 6:08 PM
I don't own a SOCOM, but I do believe the only difference is the front cylinder lock is aslo a sight attach point. Gas cylinder, pistons are all interchangeable.

The gas port is larger, the cylinder block/muzzle break is not the usgi design and for a while it had a different gas cylinder plug. I think newer ones are using the USGI cylinder plug again. Its also using a different thread on the barrel and the sights are different.

rudigan
03-22-2012, 6:27 PM
I have a SA M1A Scout, bad ars and I love it.

I checked out / held (never shot) the SOCOM. IMO, Felt too heavy in front. If you are going to go something that heavy, it should at least have good weight distribution, if you wanted to add more crap on it, the weight forward thing would only get worse.

I read the SOCOM's are much louder also.

ETA: Oh yeah, don't need a stupid BB on M1A

blazeaglory
03-22-2012, 10:17 PM
You are talking about two completely different guns. One is a light .223 gun, the other is a heavy .308. What is your purpose? It's like asking what is better, a compact car or a pickup truck.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

Lol!! Thats what I was thinking

cltitus
03-22-2012, 10:20 PM
How much money do you have for ammo?


Sums it up pretty much

Carlosa
03-22-2012, 11:24 PM
Wow this threads actually exist..
It's like a double rainbow..
Anyway..
It's america bud,
So get both..
:)

Ricko101
03-23-2012, 12:24 AM
I was having the same dilemma, although between an AR 308 and the M1A.

I got the FNH FNAR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubjSmh5LVzc

Hope this helps !

mugiwara
03-23-2012, 1:18 AM
i would get the m1a but not a socom...

mcisniper
03-23-2012, 8:00 AM
Carried an M-4 and M-16A2 in Iraq and wish I had an M1A SOCOM. Two different weapons, but the SOCOM is a cannon and AWESOME!

supermanuf
03-23-2012, 8:02 AM
Carried an M-4 and M-16A2 in Iraq and wish I had an M1A SOCOM. Two different weapons, but the SOCOM is a cannon and AWESOME!

You would take a Socom over a Scout?

AngelZ3R0
03-23-2012, 8:05 AM
.308 can reach out much further . M1A

Baconator
03-23-2012, 8:21 AM
I would take the AR on the cost of ammo now and the weight of ammo were you to have to transport a lot of it in SHTF.

I had a SOCOM II but sold it because it weighed a ton and the the ammo was so expensive vs .223

451040
03-23-2012, 8:27 AM
Which one and why?

If you don't already own an AR pattern, AR pattern. Why? Everyone should own at least one, it's cheaper to shoot than an M1A and it's modular.
If you already own an AR pattern, M1A Scout Squad. Why? Why not? Battle rifle!

Butzbach
03-23-2012, 8:28 AM
I would take the AR on the cost of ammo now and the weight of ammo were you to have to transport a lot of it in SHTF.

I had a SOCOM II but sold it because it weighed a ton and the the ammo was so expensive vs .223


If you follow this thinking to its logical extension why not just get a sling shot and a bucket of marbles. Light and cheap ammo. You can use rocks in a pinch.

Baconator
03-23-2012, 8:30 AM
If you follow this thinking to its logical extension why not just get a sling shot and a bucket of marbles. Light and cheap ammo. You can use rocks in a pinch.

not really. but thanks anyhow.

We were comparing two guns, why you would choose one over the other. I gave my real world reason as to why I chose the AR pattern rifle over the M1A style.

Butzbach
03-23-2012, 8:36 AM
I dont like it. The M1A Gas system worked pretty good. Parts are readily available. The one on the socom had to be reworked to work with the shorter barrel. You have to go to Springfield for parts since it doesn't use off the shelf parts. That and the rail IMHO is just to heavy. Ive owned an M14 and played with the socom and to be honest I did not like it. A scout would be a beast. I would get a scout over a socom in a hot minute.

Get a SOCOM 16 if you are not strong enough to heft the SOCOM II. And then buy some dumb bells.

I own a SOCOM and the gas system works just fine.

jmpgnr24k
03-23-2012, 8:44 AM
Go M1A. You can always build an AR at your leisure and budget. Ammo for the M1A is WAY more expensive, but it's a bad *** gun.

Butzbach
03-23-2012, 9:06 AM
"The day a man can't carry a 10lb battle rifle is the day a stronger breed of man comes into our houses takes our land and breeds with our women. "

Butzbach
03-23-2012, 9:09 AM
not really. but thanks anyhow.

We were comparing two guns, why you would choose one over the other. I gave my real world reason as to why I chose the AR pattern rifle over the M1A style.

If the AR will not do what you need it to then it doesn't matter what its ammo costs does it? Post SHTF with no supporting logistics you better be looking for one round stops out to 500 yards. Try that with your sling shot.

Try to keep up OK?

gorenut
03-23-2012, 9:35 AM
Throw my vote to getting an M1A Scout over a Socom as well. If I could afford to shoot 308s or reloaded, thats what I'd get.

gorenut
03-23-2012, 9:35 AM
Throw my vote to getting an M1A Scout over a Socom as well. If I could afford to shoot 308s or reloaded, thats what I'd get.

Baconator
03-23-2012, 9:38 AM
If the AR will not do what you need it to then it doesn't matter what its ammo costs does it? Post SHTF with no supporting logistics you better be looking for one round stops out to 500 yards. Try that with your sling shot.

Try to keep up OK?

Wow, brand new and already an *******. I sense you will not last long around here. Tell you what, since you are so sure that you can't get hit at 500 yards why don't you find a friend and have him stand 500 yards from you. You get a sling shot and he gets an AR pattern rifle. Let me know who lives.
You have to factor in the cost to train to effectively shoot the ammo. Hand someone a SOCOM who has never shot one before and have them hit something human sized at 500 yards, I don't think they will hit it. You can buy more training rounds of .223 for less money. What about parts? You think you will be more likely to find parts in a SHTF scenario for an AR pattern rifle or a SOCOM? Under perfect conditions, where a gun never fails, you never have to carry it (along with a **** ton of other survival gear), you are an expert marksman, and you can find all the .308 you need, then sure you'd be better of with a SOCOM. But we're talking about real world hypotheticals here.:43:

mcisniper
03-23-2012, 10:25 AM
You would take a Socom over a Scout?
Yes. My longest shot in Iraq was 350yds. My longest shot so far with my SOCOMII through iron sights is 500yds; range or accuracy is not an issue with the SOCOM. I'm not looking to split hairs on a flys *** at 1000yds, but sub MOA at 100yds works for me; effective rounds on target and where I place it. I expect better once I ad an optic. Barrel length is my concern; easier to clear a room with a shorter barrel. I like the rails on the Socom. The bottom rail section on my SocomII is a waste and I mainly use it as a grip (cant put a vertical grip on it, but the rail is easy to hold on to.) Yes, I shoot with flight gloves on, practice how you play and what I got used to in Iraq.

The Socom is still a battle rifle.

I am still going to get a NM.

Michael

Packy14
03-23-2012, 1:11 PM
It's really the only question you need to answer.

thanks for adding the stupid comment of the day. So all of our military that carries AR-15's are mouses? I hope you shoot nearly as well as you run your mouth. I bet you're a 350 lb 35 year old idiot who lives with his mom and can't hit 500 yard steal if his life depended on it. Go microwave your mom's cooking, I think you lost a pound, you're looking skinny.

Packy14
03-23-2012, 1:21 PM
To help the OP,

I had a Scout, and it was a nice gun, low recoil and very accurate. My problem was, I couldn't figure out a real world use for it, if I'm target shooting 308 I rather use my Rem 700-5R, if it's HD or SHTF, I rather use 75 grain .223 since I can carry more of it and the mags are hard to drop/reload fast on the Scout. The Scout and all the M1a variants are heavy and cumbersome. The manual of arms is also different from my AR's, so I have to train more on it to be proficient, and that costs $$$$. I decided on the AR pattern rifles, and built a AR-22 to train cheaply, setting it up identical to my real AR. I don't regret selling the Scout one bit, and the Scout is the best variant.

milotrain
03-23-2012, 1:43 PM
Self defense for SHTF.

Then buy whichever looks better to you because you'll never use either for Self defense or SHTF.

The primary reason for development of the .223 round was to save weight so that servicemen could carry more ammo and logistics of ammo delivery and support were easier. Making it seem like only "pansies" need to consider weight restrictions hints at a fundamental misunderstanding of contemporary military practice and wilderness survival.

Dave07997S
03-23-2012, 2:14 PM
I would take the AR on the cost of ammo now and the weight of ammo were you to have to transport a lot of it in SHTF.

I had a SOCOM II but sold it because it weighed a ton and the the ammo was so expensive vs .223

This...Yes the SOCOM in any variety will have better knock down power but I assure you, you don't want to get hit with 5.56 as well. I think with the AR platform you will be able to put more firepower down range and be back on target faster. Just my .02

supermanuf
03-23-2012, 2:18 PM
Yes. My longest shot in Iraq was 350yds. My longest shot so far with my SOCOMII through iron sights is 500yds; range or accuracy is not an issue with the SOCOM. I'm not looking to split hairs on a flys *** at 1000yds, but sub MOA at 100yds works for me; effective rounds on target and where I place it. I expect better once I ad an optic. Barrel length is my concern; easier to clear a room with a shorter barrel. I like the rails on the Socom. The bottom rail section on my SocomII is a waste and I mainly use it as a grip (cant put a vertical grip on it, but the rail is easy to hold on to.) Yes, I shoot with flight gloves on, practice how you play and what I got used to in Iraq.

The Socom is still a battle rifle.

I am still going to get a NM.

Michael

Thanks for answering, Michael. I only ask because I frequently went back and forth between the two variants (the Scout and a Socom 16--not into all the rails on the II). I think I'm gonna end up with the Scout, because it's only 1.5 inches longer, and the front sight on the SOCOM seems a little too chunky. Do you feel that the Scout would be useless in a CQB situation, or can it still hold its own?

Markito
03-23-2012, 2:22 PM
M1A Scount hands down my favorite rifle... Too bad I cant afford one at the moment but will be adding one to the collection for sure!

Sometimes bad guys like to hide behind something. Reach out and touch somebody.. The .308 will do that for you

SGGear
03-23-2012, 2:38 PM
I used to own both but I sold the M1A and bought a LR308. I dont regret it at all. However, I do want a rifle for SHFT situation without a maglock device. I was thinking of building a featureless AR or buying a Kel-Tec 16CA. You might want to consider a Kel-tec 16. They are very light at 4.5lbs, cheap, shoots 5.56 ammo reliably, AND they use AR-15 mags (prebans if you have em.

Arcaporale
03-23-2012, 3:44 PM
In my view the best gun anyone can have for SHTF or self-defense is the one that they know how to use the most effectively and efficiently. That is much more important than one rifle over the other.

As said by others you are really comparing 2 very different types of rifles.

If this is your first auto loading rifle, I would suggest an AR for a few reasons: Cost of both the rifle and ammo, although you can spend much more on some AR's than a M1A if you want. Weight, AR's are lighter on average. Adaptability and modularity, AR's are by design very easy to take apart and that makes them easier to customize, repair, upgrade, or whatever else your heart desires. There is also a plethora of components for the platform that are available to you to choose from.

None of these things really make it better for self defense alone, but from a SHTF standpoint you can carry much more .223 than .308, and .223 is cheaper. That's a big advantage.

Again, what is more important than which rifle you have is how proficient you are with your it.

Arcaporale
03-23-2012, 3:54 PM
If the AR will not do what you need it to then it doesn't matter what its ammo costs does it? Post SHTF with no supporting logistics you better be looking for one round stops out to 500 yards. Try that with your sling shot.

Try to keep up OK?

We are all just voicing opinions, that's all this is. I don't understand why you would need to attack someone to explain your preference in rifles.

In fact when you attack people like that, you actually undermine the point your trying to make.

MrPlink
03-23-2012, 4:28 PM
Then buy whichever looks better to you because you'll never use either for Self defense or SHTF.

The primary reason for development of the .223 round was to save weight so that servicemen could carry more ammo and logistics of ammo delivery and support were easier.

this is true, but you are missing half the story.

It also was part of the paradigm shift in ideology that was moving away from the "every solider with a rifle is a marksman" idea and that salvo or volley fire was more effective.

In very very simple terms: "we need our guys to shoot more (volume of fire ='s kills) and in order to do that, they need to carry more ammo!"

Looking at the primary change between the early M16 and the M16A2 you can see this idea did not last long, yet the round and platform were here to stay.

anyway, let the debate cary on :43:

Butzbach
03-23-2012, 4:40 PM
Then buy whichever looks better to you because you'll never use either for Self defense or SHTF.

The primary reason for development of the .223 round was to save weight so that servicemen could carry more ammo and logistics of ammo delivery and support were easier. Making it seem like only "pansies" need to consider weight restrictions hints at a fundamental misunderstanding of contemporary military practice and wilderness survival.

Recommending a rifle that was successful because of a superior logistical supply chain to an INDIVIDUAL interested in self-defense or SHTF hints at a fundamental misunderstanding of individual survival requirements.

Butzbach
03-23-2012, 4:43 PM
M1A Scount hands down my favorite rifle... Too bad I cant afford one at the moment but will be adding one to the collection for sure!

Sometimes bad guys like to hide behind something. Reach out and touch somebody.. The .308 will do that for you

Whew, somebody who gets it.

Butzbach
03-23-2012, 4:49 PM
Wow, brand new and already an *******. I sense you will not last long around here. Tell you what, since you are so sure that you can't get hit at 500 yards why don't you find a friend and have him stand 500 yards from you. You get a sling shot and he gets an AR pattern rifle. Let me know who lives.
You have to factor in the cost to train to effectively shoot the ammo. Hand someone a SOCOM who has never shot one before and have them hit something human sized at 500 yards, I don't think they will hit it. You can buy more training rounds of .223 for less money. What about parts? You think you will be more likely to find parts in a SHTF scenario for an AR pattern rifle or a SOCOM? Under perfect conditions, where a gun never fails, you never have to carry it (along with a **** ton of other survival gear), you are an expert marksman, and you can find all the .308 you need, then sure you'd be better of with a SOCOM. But we're talking about real world hypotheticals here.:43:

You got the duel wrong chief. You get the AR and I get My M1A at 500 yards. I'll take that bet.

Again, and I'll talk slowly this time, if the round won't do what you need it to do when it gets there you might as well have a slingshot. And it doesn't matter how many you have.

I'm not sure what a "real world hypothetical" is. Is that like jumbo shrimp?

I doubt you'll find parts for either. Better off picking up another rifle if you can find one.

As for the tone, I'm just trying to blend in with all you Californicators. Y'all started in on me with my first post so I am just returning the favor. Thought that was how y'all rolled. If ya'll can't run with the big dogs I suggest you stay off the porch.

Butzbach
03-23-2012, 4:51 PM
Yes. My longest shot in Iraq was 350yds. My longest shot so far with my SOCOMII through iron sights is 500yds; range or accuracy is not an issue with the SOCOM. I'm not looking to split hairs on a flys *** at 1000yds, but sub MOA at 100yds works for me; effective rounds on target and where I place it. I expect better once I ad an optic. Barrel length is my concern; easier to clear a room with a shorter barrel. I like the rails on the Socom. The bottom rail section on my SocomII is a waste and I mainly use it as a grip (cant put a vertical grip on it, but the rail is easy to hold on to.) Yes, I shoot with flight gloves on, practice how you play and what I got used to in Iraq.

The Socom is still a battle rifle.

I am still going to get a NM.

Michael

500 yards is good shooting. Appleseed distance.

Butzbach
03-23-2012, 5:09 PM
thanks for adding the stupid comment of the day. So all of our military that carries AR-15's are mouses? I hope you shoot nearly as well as you run your mouth. I bet you're a 350 lb 35 year old idiot who lives with his mom and can't hit 500 yard steal if his life depended on it. Go microwave your mom's cooking, I think you lost a pound, you're looking skinny.


I wasn't aware that our service men and women had a choice of rifle to carry. I didn't when I was in and carried the M16 I was issued.

This is a thread about choice son. Try to keep up OK? I'll type more slowly.

Excitable Boy
03-23-2012, 5:35 PM
I bought the Socom II a few years ago. It looked cool, had lots of places to hang stuff, a Tritium front sight, etc.. I was also thinking that it would be a better CQB rifle should i even need one. I ended up finding out that it does use a shorter(non standard) operating rod than all the other M1A platforms. The thing was way front heavy, was louder than hell and the cool Tritium front sight blade was a lot wider than a normal front sight making long shots more difficult. I ended up selling it and got a Scout and am pretty happy with it overall, but am having some issues deciding on an optic for it.

I also built an AR which is fun to plink with, but I prefer the Scout with iron sights to the AR with an Aimpoint for longer range shooting.

If you can only have one, I'd recommend the Scout as the .308 round will just plain do stuff 5.56 struggles with like punching holes through stuff that will stop a 5.56 round.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Hoop
03-23-2012, 6:41 PM
AR for me.

If you prefer the socom, get that.

SHTF won't happen anytime soon and if it does you will be just as glad to have that AR as you would a socom or an AK or a shotgun or a...

If the AR will not do what you need it to then it doesn't matter what its ammo costs does it? Post SHTF with no supporting logistics you better be looking for one round stops out to 500 yards. Try that with your sling shot.

Try to keep up OK?

LOL

This is why SHTF threads are always retarded and uninformative...clueless people posting up hypothetical scenarios like something out of a movie.

Hoop
03-23-2012, 6:49 PM
I used to own both but I sold the M1A and bought a LR308. I dont regret it at all. However, I do want a rifle for SHFT situation without a maglock device.

When the zombies invade the maglocks can come off...

I have an AR in 308, a 16" build. While it's a thumper I would still take the 223 AR for all-around use. Easier to find parts and ammunition for it in any situation.

escon1
03-23-2012, 8:02 PM
I used to own both but I sold the M1A and bought a LR308. I dont regret it at all. However, I do want a rifle for SHFT situation without a maglock device. I was thinking of building a featureless AR or buying a Kel-Tec 16CA. You might want to consider a Kel-tec 16. They are very light at 4.5lbs, cheap, shoots 5.56 ammo reliably, AND they use AR-15 mags (prebans if you have em.

Already have a Keltec. I just don't know if it is accurate as an AR.

Packy14
03-24-2012, 11:35 AM
I wasn't aware that our service men and women had a choice of rifle to carry. I didn't when I was in and carried the M16 I was issued.

This is a thread about choice son. Try to keep up OK? I'll type more slowly.

Look son,

Your idiotic post said nothing of choice. Why don't you crawl back under the rock you've been hiding all these years, I'm sure no one on calguns will miss you or your "insightful" posts.

Carlosa
03-24-2012, 12:27 PM
Seriously this threads should be banned from calguns all togather..
Two pages have been wasted by two post no longer than a line..
"which on should I get?"
"self defense /shtf"
Those 4 letters should be banned from gun forums across the Internet.

gotshotgun?
03-24-2012, 12:35 PM
Ohhhhhhh interwebs fight!

How exciting! PM me for wagers...

LOL at this none sense

Carlosa
03-24-2012, 12:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6qWlSB6eOI&feature=youtube_gdata_player

darkjedi351
03-24-2012, 12:45 PM
I wouldnt get a socom. The gas system is different then a normal M14/M1A.

I bought the Socom II a few years ago. It looked cool, had lots of places to hang stuff, a Tritium front sight, etc.. I was also thinking that it would be a better CQB rifle should i even need one. I ended up finding out that it does use a shorter(non standard) operating rod than all the other M1A platforms.

wrong!

only the gas cyl lock/front sight/ muzzle brake is different.

other than that they use the same op rod, gas cyl piston and piston plug. it really is just a sawed off scout

NYsteveZ
03-24-2012, 1:59 PM
Here we go....wow (bites tongue), anyway-

On the AR/Socom, I had a Socom 16...nice gun, but comparing the two is like apples and oranges. depending on what your using it for, the Socom is gonna cost you in ammo, as other posters said. Why not both? If you are going to spend that kind of money on a Socom, you can get both platforms AND have cash for ammo. How?
If you want a 308 with a 16 inch barrel, AND the gun is LIGHTER than the Socom, check out the Ruger Gunsite Scout. It is also about $750 http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html I shot it, and was HIGHLY impressed, as most any other reviews you will see on the net about it.
With the leftover cash, look into a Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport. I have also owned that gun and was highly impressed with it. It also runs about $750. With the two of them, they are still cheaper than a Socom, or Colt AR.

Squidward
03-24-2012, 5:32 PM
I typed a long reply to your question with facts and stats. Then I got bored reading my own reply, so I deleted it. :)

The bottom line is that I think the .223 will be plenty good enough for most people's potential needs. The .308 is more than what will be necessary more times than not.

escon1
03-24-2012, 7:32 PM
If you want a 308 with a 16 inch barrel, AND the gun is LIGHTER than the Socom, check out the Ruger Gunsite Scout. It is also about $750 http://www.ruger.com/products/gunsiteScoutRifle/models.html I shot it, and was HIGHLY impressed, as most any other reviews you will see on the net about it.


Thanks for the tip. I will check the Scout out.

clb
03-24-2012, 7:33 PM
Ar up close. garand any where. (My fav... 14) ar cqc all day. cb

mmrx2
03-24-2012, 11:45 PM
.223<.308

Hoop
03-25-2012, 6:57 AM
.223<.308

Depends what your needs are and what you can afford.

If you can't really afford to feed a semi auto 308 buying one because someone on the internet told you it would be better in SHTF fantasyland is a bad idea...

Hoop
03-25-2012, 7:01 AM
Thanks for the tip. I will check the Scout out.

16" saiga 308 is pretty cool too...

Lightweight, accuracy isn't too bad, if you convert it it'll need a maglock though (plenty of maglocks out there that don't alter the rifle in any permanent way). The PSO scopes out there aren't too bad either for a battle rifle 4x. They run fine with cheap-o russian **** steel case too.

sleepercar
03-25-2012, 7:11 AM
"The day a man can't carry a 10lb battle rifle is the day a stronger breed of man comes into our houses takes our land and breeds with our women. "
;)

I've got an AR and absolutely love it. But my next purchase is definitely going to be a Scout. I already own a bolt action .308, and though ammo is indeed expensive, I think I'm ready.

rudigan
03-25-2012, 7:17 AM
Are you a man or a mouse?

It's really the only question you need to answer.

The rest just got better. The one about breeding with your women.

LOL

Hoop
03-25-2012, 7:38 AM
;)


If butzbach actually knew what he was talking about he'd have answered "...ounces are pounds and pounds are pain..."

H2O MAN
03-25-2012, 8:56 AM
Which one and why?

Both

AR-15 - Why? because it's a .223 weapon that's proven itself to be reliable and effective.

Socom 16 - Why? because it's a .308 weapon that's proven itself to be reliable and effective.

Both rifles are good out of the box and both can be made a little better by the owner.

Moonshine
03-25-2012, 11:18 AM
+1 get both if you can.

I sold my M-1a and regret it... If nothing else it was a lot of fun to shoot. AR-15 is definite something to have though as ammo is common and the gun is very modular.

russ69
03-25-2012, 1:53 PM
Which one and why?

I'll cut through the BS. If you don't have an AR15, get one, that's the best starting place. Next get a Garand from the CMP. Then, if you have the bucks left over get an M1A.

Why? Because the AR15 is the biggest bargain and the most fun gun to shoot that was ever made. Then you get a Garand to see if you like the history and the power of a 30 cal rifle. After that you will know if you are a M1A guy or an AR15 guy.

Standard
03-25-2012, 1:57 PM
I've had ARs and AKs, all the .22 cal fun rifles and I almost think I'm ready to move on to a M1A Scout myself...Sick of having to mess with bullet buttons and grip wraps.
Still talking myself into/out of it.

ZX-10R
03-25-2012, 3:15 PM
You have the money for both right now but can only get one...Get the M1. You can always get an AR easily.

JavaBrewer
03-25-2012, 3:40 PM
Mini-14 - you get the proven M1A action and the proven AR caliber. Done.

mmrx2
03-25-2012, 4:06 PM
How about an ar10 as a compromise?

mmrx2
03-25-2012, 4:08 PM
Ar10, same round as m1a with the looks like an ar15.

milotrain
03-26-2012, 8:48 AM
You got the duel wrong chief. You get the AR and I get My M1A at 500 yards. I'll take that bet.


So tell me, at 600 yards, because your M1A is so much better, so completely eclipsing the M16. Why is it that NO ONE at nationals who scores in the top 10 shoots one, and they ALL shoot the M16?

I've humped a 75lb pack at 14000 feet for three days. I'll take the lighter ammo thank you. AND i'll still hit the pig at 600yards because I won't be as winded and oxygen starved.

ElToro
03-31-2012, 5:20 PM
i just DROS'd my 4th M1A rife today. i now have 2 scouts, 1 socom and 1 standard. i had the foresight to get a bunch of M1a mags in the 90s. i like the shortys. the only downside is the guy next you at the range usually isnt happy when that boomer goes off. i think its becuase the muzzle blast concussion is bouncing off concrete floors and plywood roofs of covered ranges. out on BLM land its not bad at all.

i have 2 stripped AR lowers in the safe. i would build them but then id have to buy an upper and a parts kit. even pre TEOTWAKI, im not interested in a bullet button rifle. one of these days i will build them.

i dont reload but i do save all my brass. thankfully at this time i can afford 308 ball ammo.

i do have 2 .223 bolt guns.

at the end of the day ? i didnt register any AR lowers when i had the chance so until the law changes or i move to free america, i will stick with the m1a pattern

Allentu
03-31-2012, 5:39 PM
for practical purpose, i'd pick a AR15 because the ammo is cheaper and you get to practice more. Not to mention that the AR15 is also lighter and has a lots more accessory parts. You can also find the ammo just about anywhere. If you can afford it, i'd pick a M1A scout over the recon

Allentu
03-31-2012, 5:45 PM
ar15 is easier to clean. m1a needs less frequent cleaning. AR15 ammo cost less. m1a has more accuracy at greater distances. m1a doesn't require bullet button from the factory. m1a will also not cause as much unwanted attention from uninformed LEO as a typical black rifle

colossians323
03-31-2012, 7:07 PM
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/colossians323/IMG_1486.jpg

both, I love my socom