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Tripper
03-22-2012, 7:30 AM
I have what appears to be a Mosin, Hex model by Westinghouse

from all the references I can find, the stamps are like
-eagle symbol-
New England
Westinghouse
Company
1915
no
serial

However, the one I have, the Hex starts at the bottom of the word 'Company',
does not have the year, or serial showing

I'm guessing that means it was a rebuild of sorts, or a new model made from parts of an older one, and cut the barrel down and they just covered that with the hex part of the rcvr??

also, how to best get the rusting pits out,
I can get a few pics if necessary, its in really bad shape, but my friend wants to restore it a bit, while preserving as much as possible.

paul0660
03-22-2012, 7:35 AM
I can get a few pics if necessary,

It is necessary. Sounds very interesting.

Tripper
03-22-2012, 7:43 AM
Here's what I have for now
will take more this evening maybe

http://s1133.photobucket.com/albums/m583/TripStark/m91/

paul0660
03-22-2012, 7:46 AM
great photos. Looks to be in good shape.

Also looks to have been converted to 30 ought six. Experts will be here soon.

Flyin Brian
03-22-2012, 7:47 AM
If the year and serial number are cut off, it is most likely a "Bannerman" conversion which has been rechambered to 30-06. Here is a page with more info on them:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/global%20mosin%20nagants/bannerman.asp

And here is a thread on 7.62x54r that has a photo of a Bannerman converted Westinghouse:

http://7.62x54r.net/Forums/index.php?topic=2255.0

EDIT: OK, just saw the pics, that's what it is. There are a lot of people who say not to shoot them... I know I wouldn't, just because :)

paul0660
03-22-2012, 8:00 AM
A long time ago, .30-06 was cheaper than x54.

The extractor must be quite different.

Tripper
03-22-2012, 8:55 AM
It has CAL 30 06
Stamped into the receiver

Tripper
03-22-2012, 9:11 AM
Deff looks like a bannerman conversion for sure
Thanks for that reference

Now how does one remove/reduce the rust/pitting
I'll have to add barrel pics to the above link later

What's one of these worth in rusted condition?

rojocorsa
03-22-2012, 9:19 AM
Soak in Kroil. I think Naval Jelly might work too, but I have never used that.

Flyin Brian
03-22-2012, 9:45 AM
Deff looks like a bannerman conversion for sure
Thanks for that reference

Now how does one remove/reduce the rust/pitting
I'll have to add barrel pics to the above link later

What's one of these worth in rusted condition?

Here's one that sold for $130 without the rust:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=270562264

Do not use naval jelly unless you are trying to remove the bluing. Kroil is very good stuff for treating rust!!

Tripper
03-22-2012, 9:58 AM
thats about what i was figuring for a good condition one.

TheExpertish
03-22-2012, 12:00 PM
Here's what I have for now
will take more this evening maybe

http://s1133.photobucket.com/albums/m583/TripStark/m91/
Looks like an nice example. It doesn't have much collectible value anymore because it's not in it's original M1891 / M1916 configuration. Most all of the "NRA sporters" like yours were used for hunting and were already fairly beat. Your Westinghouse was never delivered to Russia, and has spent its entire life here in the US.
If the year and serial number are cut off, it is most likely a "Bannerman" conversion which has been rechambered to 30-06. Here is a page with more info on them:

http://www.mosinnagant.net/global%20mosin%20nagants/bannerman.asp

And here is a thread on 7.62x54r that has a photo of a Bannerman converted Westinghouse:

http://7.62x54r.net/Forums/index.php?topic=2255.0

EDIT: OK, just saw the pics, that's what it is. There are a lot of people who say not to shoot them... I know I wouldn't, just because :)
I've only heard not to put 54R through them. Never heard you can't use the correct .30-06 for it. Regardless for it's age and the modifications it's best to have a smith look it over if you plan on shooting it.

TRAP55
03-22-2012, 3:29 PM
I've only heard not to put 54R through them. Never heard you can't use the correct .30-06 for it. Regardless for it's age and the modifications it's best to have a smith look it over if you plan on shooting it.
The barrel was set back to re-chamber, not enough meat in the chamber area for 06 pressures.
A case full of Trail Boss and cast bullets would be fine, no way would I shoot factory 06 in it.

Tripper
03-23-2012, 7:32 PM
the one i have is apparently the more better one
it does have the CAL 30-06 stamped in it (referenced in the last post on the 762x39 thread referenced above)
i guess now to clean it up
is it good to sand down he stock?

Peter.Steele
03-23-2012, 7:52 PM
is it good to sand down he stock?


Depends. How much damage do you want to do to the value?

Tripper
03-23-2012, 7:58 PM
well, apparently the value is already way out the door, even though its likely one of the more gooder ones

I doubt the stamp in the stock can be cleaned enough to be legible
I'm thinking at this point, just to make it shootable, rather than collectible

mosinnagantm9130
03-23-2012, 8:17 PM
Bannermans have collectable value all of their own. I wouldn't sand it.

Tripper
03-24-2012, 9:48 AM
how would I recover the stock?

mosinnagantm9130
03-24-2012, 10:44 AM
how would I recover the stock?

What do you mean "recover" it? Is it really dry or something?

The stock cartouche is the "English Contract" cartouche. It looks pretty nice.

Tripper
03-24-2012, 10:49 AM
I'll add more pictures to the set
uploading now

Tripper
03-24-2012, 11:03 AM
There
http://s1133.photobucket.com/albums/m583/TripStark/

as you can see from the pictures, the stock is pitted also, feels like sand paper
its been in an attic apparently for about 40 years, along with a couple other rifles

big103
03-24-2012, 12:36 PM
Nice man. It is a US made m91 made by Westinghouse. Now for the bad news, it has been converted to 30-06 from it original 7.62x54 as evidence by the stamping of 30-06 on the receiver there. There was a cretin company was doing this in the 50`s I think, I`m sure someone will say which company.
Jut cant remember it.


This conversions were pushing the limits of the action of the gun hard. So it is my opinion like most is that don't shoot it.

As for the stock there. I believe black walnut was used in the American made m91`s. Were it was cut was is a real difficult place to fix. You would probably be best cutting it back farther and splice in a blank piece of wood and cutting to the gun.

Tripper
03-24-2012, 12:45 PM
my buddy is not gonna be happy to be told not to shoot it.
he just wants it restored to shootable really

mosinnagantm9130
03-24-2012, 2:25 PM
Due to the way that Bannerman converted these, I would not shoot them. IMO, I don't think there is enough "meat" left in the action to safely handle .30-06.

Tripper
03-24-2012, 2:41 PM
is that because modern 30-06, is more powerful than 1940's era 30-06?
if so, is there a 30-06 load that would be ok

the only serial is apparently on the bolt, in 2 places on the bolt even.

rojocorsa
03-24-2012, 2:51 PM
is that because modern 30-06, is more powerful than 1940's era 30-06?
if so, is there a 30-06 load that would be ok

the only serial is apparently on the bolt, in 2 places on the bolt even.

I'm willing to bet that is the case. Back in the day, 30/06 was considered a "hot" cartridge, like the .338s and .300 WMs are today.



If you really want to shoot it, I bet your other alternative is to have very light and gentle handloads...

Tripper
03-28-2012, 9:24 AM
Thanks to all
ordered some Kroil, and some other associated stuff from there while I was at it.
a google special 2 king size spray cans of something for 13$ + s/h, then a can of kroil

Tripper
05-13-2012, 11:11 AM
the side of the rifle, not sure if it was the up or down side was severely pitted on the barrel and the stock. I soaked the barrel in Kroil, then 0000 steel wool and the barrel turned out real good.
on a second rifle with the same problems, same condition (a 22), the barrel did really well using the Kroil, I then took 0000 steel wool to the stock, and it didnt work out too well, as the pitting was quite deep, I only recently stripped the paint from the stock, on both of them, and used a deep red color stain on the 22 stock, I'm on about the 3rd coat of stain, and its looking really good, i'll probably do one more coat and then clear seal it.
oh, after stripping the stock on the bannerman conversion, I can easily see a serious crack in the stock on the left side at about the location of the rear of the bolt, not sure how that even cracked.

thanks for the recommendations