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rider1deep
03-20-2012, 4:47 PM
Tried searching for an answer, but I couldn't find one.

Just picked up a 308 stainless steel threaded bull barrel and I want it to be finished in black. I want to have someone do this, but I don't know in what way:

bluing, cerkote, teflon?, parkerizing...

Please help me shed some light on this situation. Thanks

GSwain
03-20-2012, 4:49 PM
Bluing and parking are both types of corrosion, do they are probably out. I'd say cerakote or duracote.

rareair
03-20-2012, 6:48 PM
I'm partial to DuraCoat. i just recently got the 24" S/S barrel on my .308 rifle refinished in Tactical Black DuraCoat

kendog4570
03-20-2012, 7:49 PM
Stainless doesnt parkerize, so thats out.
Duracoat is car paint. Ceracoat is twice as thick as GunKote, and double the trouble to apply.
GunKote is the best bang for the buck, no matter the current consensus.

Speedpower
03-20-2012, 8:29 PM
Melonite/ Ionbond will turn stainless to Black

CACitUP
03-20-2012, 9:05 PM
GunKote or Durabake

ott1
03-20-2012, 9:31 PM
I vote for nitriding.

rider1deep
03-21-2012, 9:54 AM
Thanks for the responses. I also called a few local gun shops to see if they have any recommendations. They recommended a few local gunsmiths who paint (lack of a better word). I'll post pics of the barrel when it's done.

I'm hoping to have the work done next week.

kendog4570
03-21-2012, 9:56 AM
Thanks for the responses. I also called a few local gun shops to see if they have any recommendations. They recommended a few local gunsmiths who paint (lack of a better word). I'll post pics of the barrel when it's done.

I'm hoping to have the work done next week.


Where are you located?

rider1deep
03-21-2012, 10:01 AM
Where are you located?

Sacramento. Any recommendations?

CHS
03-21-2012, 10:14 AM
I vote for nitriding.

I'm pretty sure stainless can't be nitrided.

DesertSniper
03-21-2012, 10:23 AM
just hit it with a rattle can... lol
no dont do that. it will look like :censored:

rider1deep
03-21-2012, 10:34 AM
just hit it with a rattle can... lol
no dont do that. it will look like :censored:

Believe me, I contemplated it. hahaha

kendog4570
03-21-2012, 11:38 AM
Sacramento. Any recommendations?


You can send it to me, I can knock it out and have it on it's way back to you in a few days. I am doing some other barrels first part of next week, if you would like to get it in the batch.
FFL licensed and insured.
Ken

Iggy
03-21-2012, 11:50 AM
I'm pretty sure stainless can't be nitrided.

http://www.blacknitride.com/

Bench rest guys do it to their SS barrels.

CHS
03-21-2012, 12:05 PM
http://www.blacknitride.com/

Bench rest guys do it to their SS barrels.

Annoyingly, their website makes absolutely no mention of what alloys can and cannot be nitrided. But they do use the generic term "ferrous", which SS certainly is.

I'll take your word on this one.

It also opens up a few cool possibilities.... Hrmm.. Wonder how much it would cost to get my Ruger Super Redhawk (SS) nitrided black like that..... :)

GSwain
03-21-2012, 12:40 PM
I believe some alloys of ss are actually ferrous or magnetic but I'm not sure if they would be used for a barrel

CHS
03-21-2012, 1:19 PM
I believe some alloys of ss are actually ferrous or magnetic but I'm not sure if they would be used for a barrel

Ferrous = iron.

ALL alloys of SS are Ferrous :)

Just not all of them are magnetic.

sd joe
03-21-2012, 1:49 PM
You could use Alumahyde II that Brownells offers. I used it on an old shotgun and it came out great.

kendog4570
03-21-2012, 2:05 PM
Nitriding is wonderful stuff....


For crankshafts.

Every ten years or so some form, or trade name of it comes out in the gun world, and it is supposed to be the end-all of any wear issues.
Anyone remember Black Star barrels?

CHS
03-21-2012, 2:16 PM
Every ten years or so some form, or trade name of it comes out in the gun world, and it is supposed to be the end-all of any wear issues.

So the fact that Glock has been using it on their slides and barrels for, oh 20 years, is just a passing fad?

kendog4570
03-21-2012, 2:23 PM
So the fact that Glock has been using it on their slides and barrels for, oh 20 years, is just a passing fad?


Those tupperware guns will never catch on! :)


I saw a rifle at the SHOT show at Rock Barrels booth that was so hard a file wouldn't touch it. Not the best thing for a bore. The Black Star nitrided barrels actually failed quicker than the standard barrles. Are there different degrees of hardness that can be achieved with the process?

Iggy
03-21-2012, 2:27 PM
Annoyingly, their website makes absolutely no mention of what alloys can and cannot be nitrided. But they do use the generic term "ferrous", which SS certainly is.

I'll take your word on this one.

It also opens up a few cool possibilities.... Hrmm.. Wonder how much it would cost to get my Ruger Super Redhawk (SS) nitrided black like that..... :)

FYI, I just called today. They have a $200 minimum. All I needed done is my slide for my M&P. They gentleman on the phone said I could send my whole 1911, M&P slide and barrel to get coated for $200.

If you want to send some stuff in PM me maybe we can save some cash by getting it done together.

rider1deep
03-21-2012, 2:30 PM
I'm glad I sparked debate. Admittedly I'm lost on it. I'll check out the Alumahyde II Joe. And Kendog, you have a pm.

rider1deep
03-21-2012, 2:38 PM
FYI, I just called today. They have a $200 minimum. All I needed done is my slide for my M&P. They gentleman on the phone said I could send my whole 1911, M&P slide and barrel to get coated for $200.

If you want to send some stuff in PM me maybe we can save some cash by getting it done together.

They're in Ohio though. I wanted to get the painting (again lack of a better word) next week so I can have the rifle ready to go by the time I'm on vacation the following week. Have you looked into Phantom Finishing in Concord?

Iggy
03-21-2012, 2:50 PM
Yeah, I know he does ION bonding, but I like the Nitride finishing better than ION bond or Cerakote.

Dhena81
03-21-2012, 3:29 PM
Is nitride the same as melonite?

I know meloniting ss barrels is a good thing since its very tough and supposedly increases the barrel rifling life.

CHS
03-21-2012, 3:36 PM
FYI, I just called today. They have a $200 minimum. All I needed done is my slide for my M&P. They gentleman on the phone said I could send my whole 1911, M&P slide and barrel to get coated for $200.

If you want to send some stuff in PM me maybe we can save some cash by getting it done together.

That's freaking awesome.

Only thing I wonder about is how clean the bore needs to be in order for the nitriding to be applied? I've got a fairly low round count through my Redhawk (it's just a toy), but it's definitely got some copper in the bore. I can clean it, but how clean is "clean" for their purposes I wonder...

Richard Erichsen
03-21-2012, 4:29 PM
Melonite/ Ionbond will turn stainless to Black

All true, but it's a bit more involved than a mere coating. It's a thermo-chemical process with a typical cost in the $35-40 range and a typical turnaround time of 1.5 weeks. I would suggest Melonite/Isonite QP for a stainless barrel.

R

Richard Erichsen
03-21-2012, 4:30 PM
That's freaking awesome.

Only thing I wonder about is how clean the bore needs to be in order for the nitriding to be applied? I've got a fairly low round count through my Redhawk (it's just a toy), but it's definitely got some copper in the bore. I can clean it, but how clean is "clean" for their purposes I wonder...

As clean as you can make it. Copper and lead fouling will effect the outcome and it needs to be completely gone.

R

Richard Erichsen
03-21-2012, 4:32 PM
Is nitride the same as melonite?

I know meloniting ss barrels is a good thing since its very tough and supposedly increases the barrel rifling life.

Melonite is a form of "nitriding" but all nitriding is not Melonite. ;)

Look up the threads on "Melonite" which have been very active in the last 12 months and read up. It's all there with no need to repost.

R

Richard Erichsen
03-21-2012, 4:34 PM
FYI, I just called today. They have a $200 minimum. All I needed done is my slide for my M&P. They gentleman on the phone said I could send my whole 1911, M&P slide and barrel to get coated for $200.

If you want to send some stuff in PM me maybe we can save some cash by getting it done together.

Head to the Want To Buy section and look up "nitriding." We have a group buy opportunity there for some common parts like barrels and bolt carriers that will happen later this month. Handgun slides are often a special handling situation and won't be the same price as a barrel or bolt carrier. Contact Roccobro for details and he'll set you up.

R

CHS
03-21-2012, 6:37 PM
Head to the Want To Buy section and look up "nitriding." We have a group buy opportunity there for some common parts like barrels and bolt carriers that will happen later this month. Handgun slides are often a special handling situation and won't be the same price as a barrel or bolt carrier. Contact Roccobro for details and he'll set you up.


Hrmmmm... I could see a lot of wisdom in getting an AR bolt (just the bolt, not the whole BCG) and/or maybe the cam pin nitrided.

But they'll have to remove the parkerizing first, right? How will that affect tolerances/dimensions?

And I take it your group buy won't handle revolver frames? :)

Richard Erichsen
03-21-2012, 8:08 PM
Hrmmmm... I could see a lot of wisdom in getting an AR bolt (just the bolt, not the whole BCG) and/or maybe the cam pin nitrided.

But they'll have to remove the parkerizing first, right? How will that affect tolerances/dimensions?

And I take it your group buy won't handle revolver frames? :)

We are advising against the bolt heads themselves be treated using the molten salts process (Melonite/Isonite) for the simple reason the temperatures are more than high enough to temper the carefully hardened bolt back down from the 55-60 HRC range to below 30 HRC range. While there will be a 62-64 HRC "shell" formed by the process, we don't feel this compensates for the loss of that much tensile strength in the part cross-section. In case hardened parts (Mauser '98 receivers are a great example) the core steel may be in the 26-30 HRC range and are typically of a carburizing grade. The part is then exposed to a high temperature gas process in a special furnace to increase the surface hardness and then draw it back to a final hardness in the high 50s HRC range. The case depth would be around .020" to .035" thick (a typical spark plug gap), whereas the Melonite/Isonite/Tufftride/Tenifer process of nitrocarburizing has a combined thickness for the compound and diffusion layer of a little more than .0003-.0004" (just a bit thicker than a hard chrome plating).

We're looking into plasma nitriding processes, which may be suitable for applications like this, but it's too early to say if that process lives up to the high expectations. We have a two contacts who will do the entire handgun in Melonite/Isonite QP or QPQ if that's what you want and they have all the necessary FFL licensing to handle regulated parts (not all shops do). Price will depend on how much needs to be done for the individual firearm, but a reasonable expectation is three bills. As with most work of this type, it's mostly prep work since the actual time in the tanks isn't all that long.

R