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problemchild
03-19-2012, 6:13 PM
Next time you spend $250+ on a sopmod...

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/06/06/army-buys-sopmod-ar-15-stocks-for-just-12-28/

Army buys SOPMOD AR-15 stocks for just $12.28

Have you ever purchased a plastic gun part and felt like you were charged far more than it cost to manufacture? Maybe you were. The Army has purchased 25,000 SOPMOD stocks for just $12.28 a piece. This is the same AR-15 stock sold by The Lewis Machine & Tactical for $200 - $300! How did the Army get such a good price? They bypassed LMT and went with another manufacturer [PDF Link], B5 Systems, Inc of Xenia, OH.

sopmod stock tfb Army buys SOPMOD AR 15 stocks for just $12.28 photo
LMT SOPMOD Stock

order tfb Army buys SOPMOD AR 15 stocks for just $12.28 photo
http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/sopmod_stock-tfb.jpg
http://cdn5.thefirearmsblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/order-tfb.jpg

LMT claims to be "the sole provider of the SOPMOD Buttstock to the US Special Ops Command, US Army, US Navy, US Air Force, US Marine Corps and other government agencies and bureaus." That claim appears to be no longer true. They also claim, on their homepage, that non-LMT SOPMOD stocks are counterfeit. LMT did not design the SOPMOD stock, they licensed it for commercial production from the Navy (Crane). Any SOPMOD stock produced to the mil spec, under license from the government, is very much legitimate.

Apparently surplus B5 stocks can be found for about $68 retail, which is a lot more expensive than what the government is paying (go ahead and buy 25,000 and you will also get a discount), but a fraction of the cost of a "genuine" LMT stock.

h0use
03-19-2012, 6:25 PM
wow, i want in on this group buy lol.... for that price i will take 4...

Speedpower
03-19-2012, 6:37 PM
$12.00 Sopmod is B.S.!

Guaranteed that you'll never find it at that price! so this thread is useless!

Go to a shop that sells Airsoft guns if you want to buy it cheaper than $50.00 but those they sell are clearly counterfeit Sopmods!

Chaos47
03-19-2012, 7:06 PM
oooolllllld news.
:dupe::dupe::dupe:

Intimid8tor
03-19-2012, 7:10 PM
It's about time someone in the govt finds a better price for something.

HeHateMe
03-19-2012, 7:11 PM
I found it for $95. Pretty cool.

http://www.rptactical.com/product/b5-enhanced-sopmod-buttstock/

HK Dave
03-19-2012, 7:14 PM
I remember when I first read that document... broke my heart, especially after how much I had spent on my SOPMODS. Oh well. :P

Group buy anyone? Just need 24,499 more people to get it at that price! :D

brianm767
03-19-2012, 7:14 PM
That makes up for the stainless 3/8 nut I ordered for one of our Apache helicopters awhile back, one nut was $43 most are normal prices but not this one.

HK Dave
03-19-2012, 7:17 PM
OP: Where did you find it for $68? I've been meaning to pick up an FDE one.

ott1
03-19-2012, 7:24 PM
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/551781_B5_Systems_SOPMOD_Quick_Review_vs__LMT_SOPM OD.html

Santa Cruz Armory
03-19-2012, 7:45 PM
Too bad we can't get 'em for $12...

L4D
03-19-2012, 8:12 PM
Moral of the story is an LMT SOPMOD ain't worth its asking price by a long shot!!!!!!

icenix
03-19-2012, 9:11 PM
Sometimes it just makes me sick how much they charge for some of this stuff, but I guess until we quit paying for it......No polymer stock should be more than $100. It costs them hardly anything to make. Iron sights are way overpriced as well.

t0kie
03-19-2012, 10:24 PM
Glad I sold mine long before this post :)

I'll def. get the B5 for the money if I need another one.

6doubleR
03-19-2012, 10:26 PM
Definitely interested in this. Great deal. Reviews seem good.

freonr22
03-19-2012, 10:35 PM
That makes up for the stainless 3/8 nut I ordered for one of our Apache helicopters awhile back, one nut was $43 most are normal prices but not this one.

We just bid a federal project. You have to factor in prvailing wage,certain insurances, certain specs, It adds up. We ended up at $96 hr with a 7.5% profit with those specs .... We normally would have Been $ 75 without restrictions.

NSR500
03-19-2012, 10:52 PM
Wait until you see what they buy KAC crap for. :shifty:

G60
03-19-2012, 10:53 PM
Too bad we can't get 'em for $12...

We probably could too if we ordered 25k of them. ;)

Here's a big thread about the B5 systems sopmod.
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=90341

The $68 versions are no longer available, it was a dump of incorrectly sized stocks due to incorrect blueprints proved by the government to B5 systems.

rkt88edmo
03-19-2012, 11:07 PM
Sell at slightly below cost to mil - rake up on aftermarket armchair commando market

nitroxdiver
03-19-2012, 11:38 PM
That makes up for the stainless 3/8 nut I ordered for one of our Apache helicopters awhile back, one nut was $43 most are normal prices but not this one.

Must of been the Jesus nut. You know, that nut that holds the main rotor system onto the main gear box. Makes you scream "Jesus!!!!" when it comes loose.
Sorry, former rotor head humor, couldn't resist.

As to the LMT sopmod stock. They cost what they cost. Worth it to me because I like them. Do I see 200$ worth of craftsmanship there, heck no. But i havent tried anything I like better or even as much. There were no B5 alternatives when I switched over. If I were in the market today id certainly give the B5 a try. Tried the vltor which is close and half the price, but still prefered the LMT. To each their own I guess.

Want to get real *** burnt. Go buy an HK mr556A1, then research what the .gov pays for a hk416.

mmrx2
03-20-2012, 12:39 AM
I'll take it!

Speedpower
03-20-2012, 9:23 AM
I have both the LMT Sopmod and the B5 Sopmod, they are both identical, obviously made by the same company!

.45JHP
03-20-2012, 10:43 AM
I have both the LMT Sopmod and the B5 Sopmod, they are both identical, obviously made by the same company!

No, they are not. LMT SOPMOD is made by LMT, B5 SOPMOD is made by B5. The reason they are so similar is because they were made based upon NWSC/Crane design. LMT did not design the SOPMOD stock, they only produced them for NWSC/Crane as they won the original rights to produce them. B5 then came along and won the contract because they undercut LMT's pricing.

CHS
03-20-2012, 11:01 AM
No, they are not. LMT SOPMOD is made by LMT, B5 SOPMOD is made by B5. The reason they are so similar is because they were made based upon NWSC/Crane design. LMT did not design the SOPMOD stock, they only produced them for NWSC/Crane as they won the original rights to produce them. B5 then came along and won the contract because they undercut LMT's pricing.

^^^ THIS.

So many people don't understand that the military themselves designed the SOPMOD stock. You'll still find it called the "Crane stock" in some circles because of this.

The IP for the SOPMOD stock belongs to the government. They just had LMT (and now B5) produce it for them based on their own design.

Coupled with the fact that you and I only buy one or two of these things and the military orders are counted in multiples of 10 THOUSAND, yeah, they're a bit cheaper for the military.

SamSung
03-20-2012, 11:52 AM
wouldn't be surprised if both are made in China. :eek:

Grnjeep1
03-20-2012, 12:06 PM
LMT doesn't even make the sopmod. It's made by KAC and LMT's name is slapped on it. Weird marketing deal.

Speedpower
03-20-2012, 12:14 PM
No, they are not. LMT SOPMOD is made by LMT, B5 SOPMOD is made by B5. The reason they are so similar is because they were made based upon NWSC/Crane design. LMT did not design the SOPMOD stock, they only produced them for NWSC/Crane as they won the original rights to produce them. B5 then came along and won the contract because they undercut LMT's pricing.

LMT does not make the Sopmod stock themself!

spdrcr
03-20-2012, 12:18 PM
Glad I sold mine long before this post :)

I'll def. get the B5 for the money if I need another one.

I've had all versions of the SOPMOD stock - Gen1 LMT, Gen2 LMT, Gen1 B5, and Gen2 B5.

The only ones I kept have been the Gen2 LMT SOPMODS.

There is still a very clear difference in quality and fitment. The LMT is a better product overall. Is it worth the extra cost? Only you can answer that one. For me, it is.

I have both the LMT Sopmod and the B5 Sopmod, they are both identical, obviously made by the same company!

As others have said, they are most definitely NOT made by the same company and they are most definitely NOT identical.

The links to other threads highlight some of the differences - the texture and finish of the stock body, the texture and fitment of the stock buttpad, the shape, quality, and fitment of the latch mechanism, the fitment of the stock on the receiver extension.

The quality, finish, and fitment are all better for the LMT.

tenpercentfirearms
03-20-2012, 1:27 PM
The RRA Operator stock is quite similar to the SOPMOD and I sell them like hot cakes for $130. HOWEVER! It is not a SOPMOD. The SOPMOD is one of the tightest fitting, high quality stocks I have ever sold.

So someone send me a complete B5 that is as tight a fit and nice as a SOPMOD and I will believe it. Hearing some of you who think $35 airsoft stocks are acceptable isn't convincing me because I know some of you DKS.

I get used to this as a gun dealer. People go to gun shows and see all of this cheap Made in China airsoft garbage and don't know about quality parts. Hey whatever floats your boat, but for people who know and demand more, there is a difference.

Will the RRA Operator work the the vast majority of my customers. You bet. Heck it will even work for me. Again, that doesn't make it on the same level as the SOPMOD.

G60
03-20-2012, 1:58 PM
10%, did you read the thread on m4c?

You seem to be confused. ("send me a complete B5 that is as tight a fit and nice as a SOPMOD and I will believe it.") B5 systems provides SOPMOD stocks to the government, and also sells them to the public.

.45JHP
03-20-2012, 2:20 PM
I have access to both LMT and B5 versions, will update this post later tonight with pictures.

CHS
03-20-2012, 2:53 PM
You seem to be confused. ("send me a complete B5 that is as tight a fit and nice as a SOPMOD and I will believe it.") B5 systems provides SOPMOD stocks to the government, and also sells them to the public.

Which only means that B5 has satisfied the Governments quality controls and acceptable maximum specs.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the B5 is as nice as the LMT. It only means that BOTH are qualified to be used by the Government according to the Governments own standards.

To be fair, I'm playing devils advocate here. I have not ever touched a B5 SOPMOD, only the LMT. I'm not saying that the LMT is better, only that it COULD BE better than the B5 and both could still be acceptable for Government use.

brianm767
03-20-2012, 3:51 PM
Must of been the Jesus nut. You know, that nut that holds the main rotor system onto the main gear box. Makes you scream "Jesus!!!!" when it comes off.
I've always called it the Jesus nut, because if it comes off, your goin to see Jesus. But no tiny little nut on a AH-64 tail rotor swash plate bellcrank. That's the fed log price.

Colt-45
03-20-2012, 3:53 PM
You a dog breeder? I really want that dog.:)

G60
03-20-2012, 3:54 PM
That is true, but to insinuate the B5 SOPMOD is not a "real" SOPMOD or to insinuate that it is "airsoft garbage" is untrue on both accounts.

CHS
03-20-2012, 4:29 PM
That is true, but to insinuate the B5 SOPMOD is not a "real" SOPMOD or to insinuate that it is "airsoft garbage" is untrue on both accounts.

Absolutely. Anyone who says otherwise is an ignoramus.

tenpercentfirearms
03-20-2012, 4:42 PM
That is true, but to insinuate the B5 SOPMOD is not a "real" SOPMOD or to insinuate that it is "airsoft garbage" is untrue on both accounts.

I did not insinuate it is airsoft garbage. I made the very clear example that some people don't know the difference between airsoft garbage and nice parts. So until I actually compared them for myself, I have no opinion.

I do have doubts that a $95 stock is going to compare to a $300 stock, but again, until I tested it for myself, I do not know.

bighead
03-20-2012, 6:01 PM
LOL for paying 300 dollars fur a buffer tube and something to put against your shoulder.I made a thread awhile ago about this very same thing, people being duped into purchasing accessories because of its name and advertised "coolness".

CHS
03-20-2012, 7:42 PM
LOL for paying 300 dollars fur a buffer tube and something to put against your shoulder.I made a thread awhile ago about this very same thing, people being duped into purchasing accessories because of its name and advertised "coolness".

Have you ever even SEEN an LMT buffer tube and SOPMOD stock?

HK Dave
03-20-2012, 7:47 PM
Just had a talk with a buddy of mine that owns a mold shop. He makes plastic parts of all kinds by the millions for civilian as well as government contracts.

He's a gun guy.

I asked him, "If you had an order for 50,000 Crane Stocks, and were given all the specs, how much would it cost per unit?"

His response, "Less than $10 per unit including metal and rubber parts, at worst case $15."

I then said, "Is this with the best weapons grade plastic?"

His response, "The Crane stocks and rifle stocks in general don't use any special plastic. It's a grade that is a little better than regular high impact ABS."

I tend to believe the guy. It's hype guys... it's hype and marketing. Come on now, where do you think Magpul made their money? Surely a AFG didn't cost anywhere near $35 and a little MOE grip didn't cost anywhere near $20 to produce.

People buy it, and as long as there is a market at a certain price point, they will continue to sell them at that price point.

With the B5, I'm pretty certain LMT Crane stocks will not get much business at $200+

And that's a good thing, because frankly, $200+ for a plastic stock is pure BS.

MT1
03-20-2012, 8:21 PM
Just had a talk with a buddy of mine that owns a mold shop. He makes plastic parts of all kinds by the millions for civilian as well as government contracts.

He's a gun guy.

I asked him, "If you had an order for 50,000 Crane Stocks, and were given all the specs, how much would it cost per unit?"

His response, "Less than $10 per unit including metal and rubber parts, at worst case $15."

I then said, "Is this with the best weapons grade plastic?"

His response, "The Crane stocks and rifle stocks in general don't use any special plastic. It's a grade that is a little better than regular high impact ABS."

I tend to believe the guy. It's hype guys... it's hype and marketing. Come on now, where do you think Magpul made their money? Surely a AFG didn't cost anywhere near $35 and a little MOE grip didn't cost anywhere near $20 to produce.

People buy it, and as long as there is a market at a certain price point, they will continue to sell them at that price point.

With the B5, I'm pretty certain LMT Crane stocks will not get much business at $200+

And that's a good thing, because frankly, $200+ for a plastic stock is pure BS.


All of this is true, my buddy owns a CNC & mold shop that makes parts for 3 of the top 5 gun manufacturers so I know what this stuff costs vs. what it is sold for. That being said, the reality of the situation is that a product is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it. If $200 is the price point that moves product off the shelf, then that is the market price until someone else comes out and offers an as good or better product for cheaper.

anniepoks
03-20-2012, 9:24 PM
Let's have a group buy with the government procurement folks i say!
$12.00 isn't bad huh.

bighead
03-20-2012, 9:27 PM
Have you ever even SEEN an LMT buffer tube and SOPMOD stock?

Well, aside from pictures, no.Now I'm sure you will tell me how I have no grounds the judge something that I haven't physically seen and normally there would be truth to that statement,but were not talking about a Frank Muller timepiece, were talking about a buttstock on a rifle.I don't need to see it, that is unless it secretes fairy dust and unicorn chi after every shot.A stock should be solid, provide a cheekweld and depending on the application, be adjustable.Again, I think it is asinine to pay $300 dollars for something that trivial.The aftermarket companies have banner years because of people who think they need stuff like this because it's been glamorized by advertising.I guarantee most people buy them to be recognized at the range, nothing more.

tenpercentfirearms
03-21-2012, 6:03 AM
Just had a talk with a buddy of mine that owns a mold shop. He makes plastic parts of all kinds by the millions for civilian as well as government contracts.

He's a gun guy.

I asked him, "If you had an order for 50,000 Crane Stocks, and were given all the specs, how much would it cost per unit?"

His response, "Less than $10 per unit including metal and rubber parts, at worst case $15."

I then said, "Is this with the best weapons grade plastic?"

His response, "The Crane stocks and rifle stocks in general don't use any special plastic. It's a grade that is a little better than regular high impact ABS."

I tend to believe the guy. It's hype guys... it's hype and marketing. Come on now, where do you think Magpul made their money? Surely a AFG didn't cost anywhere near $35 and a little MOE grip didn't cost anywhere near $20 to produce.

People buy it, and as long as there is a market at a certain price point, they will continue to sell them at that price point.

With the B5, I'm pretty certain LMT Crane stocks will not get much business at $200+

And that's a good thing, because frankly, $200+ for a plastic stock is pure BS.

Now has said guy ever actually handled a LMT SOPMOD? Does said guy understand the tolerances involved in said components? Have you considered that if the parts cost $15 tops, you still need to consider machine costs, machinist hours, packaging, advertising, and administrative costs? Sure the components to make a 60" LCD TV might cost $50, but do I have any clue how to put them together using sufficient quality control methods to make sure the end user is happy and the product lasts. Oh not to mention I would need to make sufficient profit to make all of this worth my while and or feed by family.

I should bow out of this discussion because clearly I am in over my head in understanding how easy it is to make a product for consumer sale. It is so easy that every ought to be doing it!

Well, aside from pictures, no.Now I'm sure you will tell me how I have no grounds the judge something that I haven't physically seen and normally there would be truth to that statement,but were not talking about a Frank Muller timepiece, were talking about a buttstock on a rifle.I don't need to see it, that is unless it secretes fairy dust and unicorn chi after every shot.A stock should be solid, provide a cheekweld and depending on the application, be adjustable.Again, I think it is asinine to pay $300 dollars for something that trivial.The aftermarket companies have banner years because of people who think they need stuff like this because it's been glamorized by advertising.I guarantee most people buy them to be recognized at the range, nothing more.

For those of you who thought I was nuts, I rest my case. People do not understand the difference between quality, tight tolerance components and cheaper made, loose tolerance parts. Hence threads like this.

HK Dave
03-21-2012, 7:39 AM
Yes, said guy has handled an LMT SOPMOD and just about every other popular stock on the market. We've actually been talking for some time about developing some plastic part for the gun community. He makes precision plastic parts for the government and civilians.... it's what he specializes in. The plastic parts he makes have to be MUCH more precise than a rifle stock. He laughed when I mentioned "How much precision does it take to make a rifle stock".

His price includes machine costs, machinist hours, administrative costs. Packaging and advertising isn't a part of it of course, but that's what usually causes a large part of the markup anyhow, and that was kind of the point of this conversation. :)

The manufacturing aspect of industry long ago became the absolute cheapest part of the equation.... marketing and advertising... the middle man, retailers etc... cost much more than manufacturing a product.

I absolutely agree with you that one needs to be able to make enough product to feed their family.

My point was that AS LONG AS PEOPLE WILL PAY IT, there will be a market for it.

There is no longer a market for the LMT SOPMOD... unless of course gunshops and die hards somehow convince the masses that the LMT SOPMOD stock is somehow superior to the B5.

One might argue that an LMT SOPMOD is a tiny bit better than the B5... but twice the price better? SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT.

Why doesn't everyone do it? Two reasons...

#1 They don't have the marketing engine to get the product sold.

#2 Not everyone wants to make Plastic Gun Stocks in a market flooded with good product already.

:)

HK Dave
03-21-2012, 7:42 AM
BTW, $12 is ridiculous, for people that wish to buy it at $12, that would mean, no marketing, no middle man, no packaging, no advertising... it just wouldn't happen.

You'd NEVER KNOW IT EXISTS.

But $200... I get feeding ones family, but just how many families do we have to feed caviar to?

bighead
03-21-2012, 7:52 AM
I very well could be nuts, buy it seems talking yourself out of several hundred dollars for a stock might come with a diagnosis also.

Below.Zero
03-21-2012, 7:56 AM
Cheapest I found the B5 for was $95 dollars.

According to due dilligence, a couple of differences that are expressed are the finish on the latch being "rougher", the color of the O-Rings on the BATT storage caps.

latch
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5EN2jZUKVVM/TqseU1XB6nI/AAAAAAAABXk/jvqHYoB931o/IMG_0349.JPG

O-Rings
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KI9swkSr2sc/TqsebmKr39I/AAAAAAAABXw/xXkVwej2njQ/IMG_0354.JPG

Buffer tube opening - one on left is B5
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6103/6327736354_e09569be7d.jpg

However multiple sources have stated that the first generation B5s were a little tight (diameter of tube opening is slightly smaller than MILSPEC buffertubes), however the issue was apparently resolved with the second generation.

Is it really a surprise that LMT marks up their prices (ridiculously)? Same could be said for
Almost every MIL supplier.

bighead
03-21-2012, 8:23 AM
So the real question is, would you rather have 3 stocks or a new rifle?

bighead
03-21-2012, 8:26 AM
Word of the day, consumerism.

Lead Waster
03-21-2012, 8:51 AM
My company makes something that's hardware costs maybe $8k, we sell it for about $100k. Does it cost that much? Well, we're not just slapping the parts together, there is the cost of the software, the guys who write the software, the guys who "bend metal", marketing guys, sales guys, etc, etc. And it's not something we sell to people, only a company would want it or can afford it, and it saves them money to buy it.

Oh yeah, and how much do you think it costs to "make" a pet rock? Or if we're talking about plastic parts, think about how much a set of LEGO costs, or a simple Barbie doll!

Speedpower
03-21-2012, 10:17 AM
Cheapeat I found the B5 for was $95 dollars.

According to due dilligence, a couple of differences that are expressed are the finish on the latch being "rougher", the color of the O-Rings on the BATT storage caps.

latch
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5EN2jZUKVVM/TqseU1XB6nI/AAAAAAAABXk/jvqHYoB931o/IMG_0349.JPG

O-Rings
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KI9swkSr2sc/TqsebmKr39I/AAAAAAAABXw/xXkVwej2njQ/IMG_0354.JPG

Buffer tube opening - one in left is B5
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6103/6327736354_e09569be7d.jpg

However multiple sources have stated that the first generation B5s were a little tight (diameter of tube opening is slightly smaller than MILSPEC buffertubes), however the issue was apparently resolved with the second generation.

Is it really a surprise that LMT marks up their prices (ridiculously)? Same could be said for
Almost every MIL supplier.

It's just that the people who spent $200.00 for an LMT Sopmod is all butt hurt because you can buy the B5 system Sopmod for half the priced! will it really feel different on your shoulder (between the 2) when you use it??? Is one really better than the other? the answer is a big NO!

Dark Sky Solutions
03-21-2012, 10:59 AM
You ask, I provide!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Group Buy!!!!!!!!!!!! (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=8259400#post8259400)

SURVIVOR619
03-21-2012, 12:03 PM
Sometimes it just makes me sick how much they charge for some of this stuff, but I guess until we quit paying for it......No polymer stock should be more than $100. It costs them hardly anything to make. Iron sights are way overpriced as well.

The price for reliability, right?! Not gonna buy some polymer sights only to wast more money on ammo... Yet, there is no way they should cost so much!:oji:

Peter.Steele
03-21-2012, 4:15 PM
Just had a talk with a buddy of mine that owns a mold shop. He makes plastic parts of all kinds by the millions for civilian as well as government contracts.

He's a gun guy.

I asked him, "If you had an order for 50,000 Crane Stocks, and were given all the specs, how much would it cost per unit?"

His response, "Less than $10 per unit including metal and rubber parts, at worst case $15."

I then said, "Is this with the best weapons grade plastic?"

His response, "The Crane stocks and rifle stocks in general don't use any special plastic. It's a grade that is a little better than regular high impact ABS."

I tend to believe the guy. It's hype guys... it's hype and marketing. Come on now, where do you think Magpul made their money? Surely a AFG didn't cost anywhere near $35 and a little MOE grip didn't cost anywhere near $20 to produce.

People buy it, and as long as there is a market at a certain price point, they will continue to sell them at that price point.

With the B5, I'm pretty certain LMT Crane stocks will not get much business at $200+

And that's a good thing, because frankly, $200+ for a plastic stock is pure BS.

Now has said guy ever actually handled a LMT SOPMOD? Does said guy understand the tolerances involved in said components? Have you considered that if the parts cost $15 tops, you still need to consider machine costs, machinist hours, packaging, advertising, and administrative costs? Sure the components to make a 60" LCD TV might cost $50, but do I have any clue how to put them together using sufficient quality control methods to make sure the end user is happy and the product lasts. Oh not to mention I would need to make sufficient profit to make all of this worth my while and or feed by family.

I should bow out of this discussion because clearly I am in over my head in understanding how easy it is to make a product for consumer sale. It is so easy that every ought to be doing it!



For those of you who thought I was nuts, I rest my case. People do not understand the difference between quality, tight tolerance components and cheaper made, loose tolerance parts. Hence threads like this.



TenPercent:

I'm not the guy in question, but I can absolutely back him up on this. I've handled an LMT SOPMOD stock, and I do industrial design stuff on CAD all day long. Among the things that I do is mold design for plastic manufacturing, so I know what tolerances are. How familiar are you with injection molding?

If my company decided to get into this market - and we wouldn't, we've got plenty of other things to make - we could churn those out for $10-12 allllll day long.

LMT has already paid for the tooling just with their DOD contracts. They don't even need marketing for civilian market stocks, because there's a bajillion pieces of free advertising out there in the form of troops carrying this stock. Anything they sell to us for $200 is almost pure profit.

G60
03-21-2012, 4:29 PM
Anyone trying to talk someone out of a B5 and into an LMT/KAC is either a fanboy or a salesman. And it appears we've got both in this thread.

Speedpower
03-21-2012, 4:33 PM
Anyone trying to talk someone out of a B5 and into an LMT/KAC is either a fanboy or a salesman. And it appears we've got both in this thread.

Yuuuuup!

fusionstar
03-21-2012, 4:54 PM
Takes a couple seconds in an injection mold to make one. Material cost? About a dollar.

Speedpower
03-21-2012, 4:56 PM
Takes a couple seconds in an injection mold to make one. Material cost? About a dollar.

Nah, that's not true! LMT use a different material :rolleyes: (better and way more expensive) :p

bomb_on_bus
03-21-2012, 5:03 PM
This thread is full of marketing genious!

1. Make an item for the military on the cheap.

2. Employ a manufactuering process that has little overhead.

3. Make product availible to the public and mark up price a billion%.

4. Profit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D



I'm almost done with an idea I came up with. Tactical toilet paper. Booyah! That's right guys tactical turd paper. How many times did you know of someone who got spotted in the open while taking a dump............... well not anymore. Now you wont have to worry if your going to be spotted while pinching one off. I'm telling you this idea is going to save millions and revolutionize tactics on the battlefield. And I will offer the TTP to the public for only 24.95 a roll. :D

SoCalSig1911
03-21-2012, 5:04 PM
That's terrible IMO.. Even though it comes out to just over $300k for the Sopmods there might be a 15% profit to be made and in the time that it takes to manufacture all of those 25,000 parts plus all the other parts in the assembly of the Sopmod you will get to over 100,000 parts for $300k over a time span of 6 months or more, It's just not worth it.. Though it may be good to make a 15% profit in China, out here that's just sad.

SoCalSig1911
03-21-2012, 5:05 PM
This thread is full of marketing genious!

1. Make an item for the military on the cheap.

2. Employ a manufactuering process that has little overhead.

3. Make product availible to the public and mark up price a billion%.

4. Profit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D



I'm almost done with an idea I came up with. Tactical toilet paper. Booyah! That's right guys tactical turd paper. How many times did you know of someone who got spotted in the open while taking a dump............... well not anymore. Now you wont have to worry if your going to be spotted while pinching one off. I'm telling you this idea is going to save millions and revolutionize tactics on the battlefield. And I will offer the TTP to the public for only 24.95 a roll. :D

That still doesn't beat the tactical mug for $300!! Hahahaha

bighead
03-21-2012, 10:11 PM
Wait, now I'm confused, you mean based on pure common sense I can rule out purchasing a 300$ stock despite not ever examining its glorious existence in person?

cltitus
03-21-2012, 11:35 PM
This is the reason why I love my armor friends :D

winxp_man
03-22-2012, 12:16 AM
Let me end this wonderful debate :D

LMT used Unobtainium and B5 uses regular high grade plastic :D

Webologist
03-22-2012, 3:13 AM
Cheapeat I found the B5 for was $95 dollars.

According to due dilligence, a couple of differences that are expressed are the finish on the latch being "rougher", the color of the O-Rings on the BATT storage caps.

latch
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5EN2jZUKVVM/TqseU1XB6nI/AAAAAAAABXk/jvqHYoB931o/IMG_0349.JPG

O-Rings
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KI9swkSr2sc/TqsebmKr39I/AAAAAAAABXw/xXkVwej2njQ/IMG_0354.JPG

Buffer tube opening - one in left is B5
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6103/6327736354_e09569be7d.jpg

However multiple sources have stated that the first generation B5s were a little tight (diameter of tube opening is slightly smaller than MILSPEC buffertubes), however the issue was apparently resolved with the second generation.

Is it really a surprise that LMT marks up their prices (ridiculously)? Same could be said for
Almost every MIL supplier.

thanks for posting this. To my eye the LMT appears to be of poorer quality, at least based on these representative samples. The LMT has more casting flash, dirtier edges on the tube and less crisp details. It does have one melted edge that seems nicer. No way to judge the materials, but... Its plastic.

Peter.Steele
03-22-2012, 6:04 PM
This thread is full of marketing genious!

1. Make an item for the military on the cheap.

2. Employ a manufactuering process that has little overhead.

3. Make product availible to the public and mark up price a billion%.

4. Profit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D


Oh, I wouldn't exactly say that it's a process that has "little" overhead. The initial set-up costs will be in the neighborhood of $150,000-200,000 for the molds alone, and that's assuming you've already got the injection molding machinery.

CHS
03-22-2012, 6:32 PM
Oh, I wouldn't exactly say that it's a process that has "little" overhead. The initial set-up costs will be in the neighborhood of $150,000-200,000 for the molds alone, and that's assuming you've already got the injection molding machinery.

This.

Most people have no idea how freaking expensive it is to build a mold for injection molding. And you have to do it right the first time. Yeah, the plastic itself is fairly inexpensive, but you're talking major set-up costs that must be paid for somewhere.

Peter.Steele
03-22-2012, 7:02 PM
This.

Most people have no idea how freaking expensive it is to build a mold for injection molding. And you have to do it right the first time. Yeah, the plastic itself is fairly inexpensive, but you're talking major set-up costs that must be paid for somewhere.



Just to get the design work done is stupid expensive. If I were going to do the design work on a mold for a part like this, the price for the design work alone would probably have 5 figures in it, and the first number might be >1.

Dark Sky Solutions
03-31-2012, 5:12 PM
So with all this arguing of one over the other why is there only 17 orders for the B5 SOPMOD at $85 FTF and $95 shipped?

TNP'R
03-31-2012, 5:14 PM
Meh, i'm cheap I bought the CAA stock saddle which turns the basic stock into pretty much what that looks like. As you can see in my sig below. It was like 18 bucks on amazon lol.

Dark Sky Solutions
03-31-2012, 5:54 PM
Meh, i'm cheap I bought the CAA stock saddle which turns the basic stock into pretty much what that looks like. As you can see in my sig below. It was like 18 bucks on amazon lol.

You are correct. It does look like a SOPMOD. All though I have never shot with your setup I will say, I don't think it really feels like a SOPMOD. Personally I love the things. I don't car who makes them as long as it is the correct specs I am good. Call me a fan boy all u want but my personal preference is a SOPMOD or nothing at all.

Now I can actually afford them. Lmao

TNP'R
03-31-2012, 5:57 PM
You are correct. It does look like a SOPMOD. All though I have never shot with your setup I will say, I don't think it really feels like a SOPMOD. Personally I love the things. I don't car who makes them as long as it is the correct specs I am good. Call me a fan boy all u want but my personal preference is a SOPMOD or nothing at all.

Now I can actually afford them. Lmao

I didn't get what I got so it could be a sopmod knock off. I noticed that what I bought had two compartments for batteries and such so I bought it. It is secured on the stock very firmly as well, might as well say it was part of the original stock that's how tight and sturdy it is.

Speedpower
03-31-2012, 6:01 PM
So with all this arguing of one over the other why is there only 17 orders for the B5 SOPMOD at $85 FTF and $95 shipped?

Maybe because of this? http://www.riflegear.com/p-1234-b5-sopmod-stock.aspx and you don't have to wait.

Dark Sky Solutions
03-31-2012, 6:02 PM
I didn't get what I got so it could be a sopmod knock off. I noticed that what I bought had two compartments for batteries and such so I bought it. It is secured on the stock very firmly as well, might as well say it was part of the original stock that's how tight and sturdy it is.

If I offended u I did not mean to. I was just saying I have never used your setup so I could not say how it shoots. To each his own, if u like the setup then run with brother.

For me personally I just prefer a SOPMOD.

TNP'R
03-31-2012, 6:11 PM
If I offended u I did not mean to. I was just saying I have never used your setup so I could not say how it shoots. To each his own, if u like the setup then run with brother.

For me personally I just prefer a SOPMOD.

I wasn't offended, its all good.

BHPFan
03-31-2012, 6:13 PM
Moral of the story is an LMT SOPMOD ain't worth its asking price by a long shot!!!!!!

As a LMT fanboy, I totally agree with this.

Actually, I prefer the MagPul ACS stocks over the LMT SOPMOD stocks, but back to the topic, since B5 is offereing SOPMOD stocks for about half to a third of what LMT sells, then I will take B5; hell, I'll take 2 or 3 just to pay the price of one LMT SOPMOD stock.

Droppin Deuces
03-31-2012, 6:19 PM
I have a B5, and in my opinion the LMT version is "nicer." It really all comes down to finish. The appearance of the LMT in comparison is just...nicer. But they but work well. They both have little-to-no play and lock up nice and tight. Does a nicer finish make the LMT worth $100 more? To some it might, but it didn't to me. I bought the B5 to put on an LMT lower. I imagine LMT will be lowering their price at some point.

Dark Sky Solutions
03-31-2012, 6:58 PM
As a LMT fanboy, I totally agree with this.

Actually, I prefer the MagPul ACS stocks over the LMT SOPMOD stocks, but back to the topic, since B5 is offereing SOPMOD stocks for about half to a third of what LMT sells, then I will take B5; hell, I'll take 2 or 3 just to pay the price of one LMT SOPMOD stock.

Then get in on the GB