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View Full Version : Magpul B.A.D. lever users should probably read this...


iHate.Kalifornia
03-18-2012, 9:40 PM
Last night, I was looking around at some possible add-ons for my future AR. And I read this review on the BAD lever from Amazon...


I've got really mixed feelings about Magpul's B.A.D. lever. I think it's a phenomenal idea, and I think they created a mostly high quality item to achieve their design. However, I've been forced to stop running mine and return it.
The BAD lever, when installed properly on my M&P15, did not allow the bolt catch paddle to rest naturally and open all the way. Because of the curve of the gun just above the paddle (as on all AR-15's), the bolt catch was always slightly engaged. Add to this the fact that the BAD lever changes the weight on the sensitive bolt catch, and in doing so, changes the pivot point just a bit, and you get a bolt catch that hits the lower face of my bolt carrier group and causes some wear damage. Super unfortunate! After consulting with people on ar15.com, the consensus was get the BAD lever off!
I also found that while using the BAD lever made operation of the bolt catch super easy, it lead to bad habits. I removed it and found myself at a loss for operating my rifle as intended from the factory. I've had to relearn my gun, yikes! If ever handed an AR-15, I don't want to be used to extra equipment that's not normal.
Finally, the extra gear in the trigger guard area (and the fact that it sticks out past it) is generally a no-no. More to fumble with if you're wearing gloves, have cold or dirty or numb hands, etc. At least in the military, rifle and weapon design says simple is always better; the less to fumble with, the less to operate, and the less the catch/snag/break, the better.
Also, I found the lever a bit flexible, which was surprising. I'd rather Magpul have over built this thing than under built it. Feels like you could snap it with one solid catch on something.
So while I really like the BAD lever insofar as it eases usage of the rifle and adds a speed and convience factor, it's certainly not worth damaging my rifle, giving me BAD habits (haha?), or introducing more parts that can potentially break.
I'm giving it four-stars because of the general quality of construction, implementation, and design. -1 star for incompatibility with my rifle (not sure how it's not incompatible with ALL AR's). It's cheap enough that you should buy it and try it, and if it works, you WILL love it. Just don't forget to practice with your rifle as though it weren't on as well!

.......

So what I was thinking to do, since he says it kind of weighs the bolt catch down.... why not take a dremel and cut off most of it, so that just a small bit is left, making the bolt easier to lock without having all that extra weight...
Seems like it would work to me, I donít know, just thinking random thoughts..

TNP'R
03-18-2012, 9:45 PM
My ar-15 works fine with the B.A.D lever on it. The only thing I think that could hurt the gun is if the lever gets snagged on something then rips the paddle off some how.

jonc
03-18-2012, 9:56 PM
My bad lev!!!

mlevans66
03-18-2012, 9:58 PM
My bad lever work fine and I've seen no wear and tear with my BCG or anything else for that matter. Not trying to justify my buy but I don't see any issue with it.

Gio
03-18-2012, 10:02 PM
Whatever floats your boat, I have had a BAD Lever on all my AR's basically from 80% lowers to whatever stripped lower used to make up an AR and they have worked flawless for the last 2 years or so of using them.

vintagearms
03-18-2012, 10:02 PM
I like mine and will continue to use it. I have heard the factory spring wasn't made stout enough for the additional weight of it and may need to be changed sooner but for this build its not an issue.

ChaneRZ
03-18-2012, 10:27 PM
I have a SW MP 15 lower and use a BAD lever and have no problems what so ever. Bolt locks back every last round on every mag.

tradecraft
03-18-2012, 10:52 PM
Love my BAD levers....once you use one, it's tough to imagine going back.

Dhena81
03-18-2012, 11:03 PM
I can't imagine not having my BAD lever anymore I love it I have no failures to lock on the last round or abnormal bolt wear. I know some people have problems with them but I think its mostly from weak mag springs. You can check out Phase 5 tactical also its a one piece design otherwise go with the bad loctite it and wait 48 hours.

only10x
03-18-2012, 11:03 PM
Its a novelty (i have one)... notice the two guys Costa & Haley dont use them... and they both worked for magpul when they were released.

TNP'R
03-18-2012, 11:11 PM
Its a novelty (i have one)... notice the two guys Costa & Haley dont use them... and they both worked for magpul when they were released.

To be honest it doesn't bother me in the slightest to use the mag release the normal way. I just like the lever a little better.

bug_eyedmonster
03-18-2012, 11:31 PM
I had a somewhat negative experience with the Magpul BAD, but it's totally different to what that review was regarding. I took a course with one of my builds, and noticed after dusting off the gun right after the range, I noticed my BAD was loose. When I got home to clean it, I pulled out the LocTite and allen wrench just to realize that it wasn't loose, it was broken. The two piece design was not holding up, and the little allen bolt was stripped and the backing was cracked. I checked my backup rifle which saw only about 3200 rounds, and the allen bolt was also backing out, and noticed it was wiggling alot more than before (based on memory). I pulled them all off, and switched them to teh Phase 5 lever, which is actually a whole one-piece lever, not something that is snadwiching the original paddle. These have held up pretty good so far, no problems, no wear on bolt carrier, no sagging, or any other problems I can see.

Just my $.02
Jerry

Mongoblack23
03-19-2012, 12:06 AM
thats why i use this one
http://www.phase5tactical.com/products/ar15-m16/ebrv1-
better built, and sturdier mount. the only problem ive found with it, is preventing the bolt from catching back, not engaging it. other than that i love it. i still use the slap method just to keep muscle memory up....

SIGSHOOTR
03-19-2012, 1:32 AM
I'm a fan of the BAD. I've run mine through hard use during numerous courses and it has never failed-- never snagged or caught on gear, loosened up and fallen off. I run gloves and it's never gotten in the way. Love it that you can lock back the bolt without taking your hand off fire control-- especially handy when it comes to clearing Type 3 malfunctions and remedial action. I also find I'm quicker on reloads and back on target using the BAD. YMMV.

verapakill
03-19-2012, 2:02 AM
thats why i use this one
http://www.phase5tactical.com/products/ar15-m16/ebrv1-
better built, and sturdier mount. the only problem ive found with it, is preventing the bolt from catching back, not engaging it. other than that i love it. i still use the slap method just to keep muscle memory up....

+ 1 the phase 5 one piece is amazing

seal20
03-19-2012, 5:37 AM
OMG...Travis and Chris don't use it!! I will be collecting all B.A.D. Levers and hosting a B.A.D. Lever destruction party sponsored by ar15.com, Oh and I'm growing a beard to be super fast!!

AK all day
03-19-2012, 5:49 AM
I have one on my M&P 15 and I dont notice any damage. Is there a spot I should look for damage?? I hope I'm not hurting my rifle. :/

Don the savage
03-19-2012, 6:22 AM
Well since arf.com said it i will definitly be at the BaD lever destruction party. The only thing i dont like about my BAD lever is that i cant put one on my Rem R-25 because it wont fit. (really rem/dpms that little cut out on the upper really sucks only thing i dont like about the rifle)
Now i see phase five makes a one piece that replaces the stock lever. Thanks again calguns for making my credit card bill $50 higher. This thread was awesome just because of that.

451040
03-19-2012, 7:53 AM
Review and reviewer completely discounted due to use of the following:




Super unfortunate!

super easy

yikes!

extra equipment that's not normal

generally a no-no

(haha?)


:facepalm:

Merc1138
03-19-2012, 8:16 AM
I'm wondering why I should read that. It sounds like his upper receiver didn't have enough clearance for it(and not all of them do), that's not my concern. I also had(past tense) the troy lever on another receiver but I didn't like it because it didn't come out far enough past the trigger guard on the left side for my, and eventually I ran into an issue with a stock(.22lr build) so it came off.

The thread title makes it seem like there was some sort of serious problem with it, and that's not the case.

Fate
03-19-2012, 9:54 AM
I pulled them all off, and switched them to teh Phase 5 lever, which is actually a whole one-piece lever, not something that is snadwiching the original paddle. These have held up pretty good so far, no problems, no wear on bolt carrier, no sagging, or any other problems I can see.
+1 for the Phase 5 Tactical one piece lever!

glock7
03-19-2012, 11:11 AM
I took mine off had failure to lock back of bolt when empty. Googled it and found there were some probs. took mine off and has been fine ever since. I like the slap method anyways. Some people have no bad experiences so they keep it. Mine ran fine for over a year then started having malfs. Took it off runs like a champ. Enjoy.

gun toting monkeyboy
03-19-2012, 11:23 AM
I am not a fan of the B.A.D. or it's clones. But I think that the reviewer was an idiot. First and foremost for listening to the keyboard commandos over at Arfcom. And also for being such a retard with unlearning his gun. He just couldn't use it without the little lever there anymore. Whah! I am lucky if I use the same AR two times in a row. I don't have stacks of them or anything. But I try to rotate through them on trips to the range. They all have their quirks, and none of them are the same. But I'll be damned is I get that thrown off just because one has a feature and the others don't. How flippin' hard is it to reach up and slap the little ping pong paddle with your off hand? I guess he just can't Forest Gump his way through it. A bit too much Rainman going on there as far as I can tell.

-Mb

LAL6
03-19-2012, 11:23 AM
My mega billet upper is machined specifically to fit the bad lever but I didn't put one on. I think it looks stupid and it doesn't fit my scope of practice.

ExtremeX
03-19-2012, 11:41 AM
I took mine off had failure to lock back of bolt when empty. Googled it and found there were some probs. took mine off and has been fine ever since. I like the slap method anyways. Some people have no bad experiences so they keep it. Mine ran fine for over a year then started having malfs. Took it off runs like a champ. Enjoy.


This mirrors my experience with it too... I was having intermittent issues with the bolt locking back, the second I took it off, the problem was gone.

Kinda sucks because I like the bad lever, really improved the ergo for me.

I'm looking to fix it by maybe adding a little more spring tension on the bolt release.

Some people have issues, some don't. I might change out those parts using a different LPK. This is installed on my factory Stag lower, not that it should really matter.

peter95
03-19-2012, 2:25 PM
Never had a problem with mine. I guess ill give it a test and see if it does indeed catch in a different area of the bcg. I dont see how it would though....

negolien
03-19-2012, 3:03 PM
No issues here in several thousand rounds...But you keep spreading the myth...

shooperman
03-19-2012, 3:08 PM
I've got BAD levers on both my AR's and they work great. Never had any problems with either. I would recommend them to everyone.

cgiomi
03-19-2012, 3:25 PM
Tactical Link also makes a lever. www.Tacticallink.com

mod1217
03-19-2012, 4:04 PM
I can't imagine not having my BAD lever anymore I love it I have no failures to lock on the last round or abnormal bolt wear. I know some people have problems with them but I think its mostly from weak mag springs. You can check out Phase 5 tactical also its a one piece design otherwise go with the bad loctite it and wait 48 hours.

Me too love the Phase 5 I have it in my AR-15 and LR-308 both are outstanding so far, one piece is the way to go

chris_m90731
03-19-2012, 4:11 PM
Or you could just tap, rack, bang.

cfusionpm
03-19-2012, 4:16 PM
Love mine on my Ruger SR-556E.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2243/img9352z.jpg

Merc1138
03-19-2012, 4:18 PM
Or you could just tap, rack, bang.

Why is it people fail to realize that levers like this assist in manually locking the bolt to the rear? Every time this topic comes up it's "I don't see how it would speed up reloads" or "the half second it saves you on a reload doesn't matter" I agree, the BAD lever is worthless for reloads since it takes no time, just smack the side and you're done.

But locking the bolt to the rear manually is an awkward operation at best, and that's what the BAD lever(and other similar devices) make easier.

I'm not sure what you think "tap, rack, bang" is going to do for a mis-feed, other than make you look silly while nothing happens after you've tapped on the magazine and racked the charging handle without clearing the malfunction. I'd hate to see what your idea of a resolution is for a failure to extract :rolleyes:

edit: To clarify, "tap, rack, bang" is for a failure to fire. mis-feeds and double feeds can require locking the bolt back to remove the magazine and clear the weapon, as the bolt forward may not let the mis-fed rounds drop freely from the mag well or ejection port. A failure to extract is a different procedure even. Different malfunctions require different methods to clear(or just using one long all-inclusive set of procedures that resolve all of them).

Munny$hot
03-19-2012, 6:03 PM
Its a novelty (i have one)... notice the two guys Costa & Haley dont use them... and they both worked for magpul when they were released.

Haley does have one mounted on one of his rigs. I've tried one and found it to be (IMHO) a novelty at best. They're not that expensive so trying one out will not be a huge lost if you decide to sell it. MagPul makes some excellent/quality/affordable stuff, so you can't go to wrong buying their products. I'm more of a K.I.S.S user and if money is tight for about the same money I think an Ambi safety is a better buy.

h0use
03-19-2012, 6:29 PM
never had a problem with my bad lever. i do like my troy lever i have a little better on my other rifle

missiontrails
03-19-2012, 6:38 PM
Something tells me that a company like Magpul tested the BAD far more than the Amazon reviewer. I will always use them.

peter95
03-19-2012, 6:48 PM
Maybe he means bad lever is bad because of the name?

lincoln6echo
03-19-2012, 7:03 PM
The phase 5 will go on my next build but I have never had a problem with the bad. I could have sworn Costa was running one at one point on one of the discs of tactical carbine but no matter, if it works for me and does not cause abnormal wear or damage to my rifle I'll keep using it... I can turn on my TV without the remote but it's not as easy:p

dfletcher
03-19-2012, 7:26 PM
I shoot left handed and use the DPMS "paddle" or one sold by Model 1 (IIRC) that extends down the left but doesn't hook through the trigger guard. I suppose this is a convenience the left handed/eyed have shooting the rifle.

SIGSHOOTR
03-19-2012, 7:52 PM
Its a novelty (i have one)... notice the two guys Costa & Haley dont use them... and they both worked for magpul when they were released.

Uhm, Haley does use them on his guns (even after leaving Magpul-- he runs them on some of his guns). Costa never ran them. I think it's a great tool and it mates perfectly on my lower-- totally a worthwhile mod IMO. Ergonomically, the ping pong paddle has always been the AR platforms weak point-- on reloads, not such a huge deal (though I think the BAD lever helps with my speed reloads) having to reach around to lock the bolt back was a big PITA. I have a DD lower with a Centurion Arms upper and the BAD lever works great.

140630

lincoln6echo
03-19-2012, 8:38 PM
Uhm, Haley does use them on his guns (even after leaving Magpul-- he runs them on some of his guns). Costa never ran them. I think it's a great tool and it mates perfectly on my lower-- totally a worthwhile mod IMO. Ergonomically, the ping pong paddle has always been the AR platforms weak point-- on reloads, not such a huge deal (though I think the BAD lever helps with my speed reloads) having to reach around to lock the bolt back was a big PITA. I have a DD lower with a Centurion Arms upper and the BAD lever works great.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/iamjackspictures/DSC_0064.jpg

arsilva32
03-19-2012, 9:16 PM
i guess im the only one that doesn't want to be like haley and costa when i grow up. never had a problem slapping the side of the receiver or locking the bolt back. but then again paper targets give you plenty of time to do this.

Sniper3142
03-19-2012, 9:24 PM
i guess im the only one that doesn't want to be like haley and costa when i grow up. never had a problem slapping the side of the receiver or locking the bolt back. but then again paper targets give you plenty of time to do this.

Spoken like someone else who either hasn't used a BAD or similar device or just another hater.

The BAD and similar devices do exactly what they were designed to do; enable the locking back or releasing of the charging handle while keeping your firing hand in position (for Right Handed People).

:rolleyes:

AlliedArmory
03-19-2012, 9:25 PM
I've had one on mine since they 1st came out and still working perfectly fine. Nothing but normal wear and tear.

TNP'R
03-19-2012, 9:28 PM
Spoken like someone else who either hasn't used a BAD or similar device or just another hater.

The BAD and similar devices do exactly what they were designed to do; enable the locking back or releasing of the charging handle while keeping your firing hand in position (for Right Handed People).

:rolleyes:

Yep, its nice too.

starsnuffer
03-19-2012, 10:01 PM
Doesn't surprise me that AR15 people are complaining about seeing wear on their prized little safe sluts. They'd be dangerous if they could shoot.

-W

mmrx2
03-19-2012, 11:10 PM
For us regular California guys, the bad lever really can't be utilized how it's suppose to with our bullet buttons. I've used them in Texas, works real good over there, here not so much.

mmrx2
03-19-2012, 11:23 PM
In my opinion, with a bb the bad levers seem kind of pointless, but on a RAW it's another story.

Merc1138
03-19-2012, 11:41 PM
For us regular California guys, the bad lever really can't be utilized how it's suppose to with our bullet buttons. I've used them in Texas, works real good over there, here not so much.

In my opinion, with a bb the bad levers seem kind of pointless, but on a RAW it's another story.

Having a bullet button does not mean you never need to manually lock the bolt to the rear.

Why is it people fail to realize that levers like this assist in manually locking the bolt to the rear? Every time this topic comes up it's "I don't see how it would speed up reloads" or "the half second it saves you on a reload doesn't matter" I agree, the BAD lever is worthless for reloads since it takes no time, just smack the side and you're done.

But locking the bolt to the rear manually is an awkward operation at best, and that's what the BAD lever(and other similar devices) make easier.

I'm not sure what you think "tap, rack, bang" is going to do for a mis-feed, other than make you look silly while nothing happens after you've tapped on the magazine and racked the charging handle without clearing the malfunction. I'd hate to see what your idea of a resolution is for a failure to extract :rolleyes:

edit: To clarify, "tap, rack, bang" is for a failure to fire. mis-feeds and double feeds can require locking the bolt back to remove the magazine and clear the weapon, as the bolt forward may not let the mis-fed rounds drop freely from the mag well or ejection port. A failure to extract is a different procedure even. Different malfunctions require different methods to clear(or just using one long all-inclusive set of procedures that resolve all of them).

That's from this same thread you replied to even. Magazine changes are not the only reason to operate the bolt catch on an AR.

Merc1138
03-20-2012, 12:17 AM
I always thought these were designed so you didn't have to move your shooting hand off the trigger area when changing mags and closing bolt. Not really for speed. Won't really work as designed with a bullet button. I guess it does work better if you want to use it as a bolt hold open lever assisting device.

It's designed to be used for both, and it happens to be very handy for the extremely un-ergonomic and ridiculous task of locking the bolt to the rear.

It's just that all you see people doing with them in the videos 9 times out of 10, is releasing the bolt because that's just the most common use for it.

edit: Ok, apparently you deleted that for some reason while I was replying. Oh well.

shadowofnight
03-20-2012, 5:22 AM
Tried the BAD, loved the concept...just not the screwed on mounting.

Changed over to the 1 piece EBRV2 , never looked back....love them.


http://phase5tactical.com/products/ar15-m16/ebrv2-

MrExel17
03-20-2012, 9:11 AM
Never had an issue with my BAD Lever still run it today along with Phase 5 too great products.

UP2MTNS
03-20-2012, 3:42 PM
RRA built the BAD functionality into their LAR-8 platform....totally ambi too.

http://rockriverarms.com/images/products/pu308eliop.gif