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View Full Version : Found pmags - high cap rules?


rexblaine
03-18-2012, 9:16 PM
A buddy of mine went through a nasty divorce in 2006 and in the effort to keep him gun clear during that ordeal he forced me to keep his arsenal in my safe, ammo included.

In April of 2007 after suffering severe emotional trauma through his divorce and child custody he fell into some bad ways while fighting for his kids visitation once the wife stoe them to Denver. He later found out that his longest childhood friend was having an affair with his ex wife, and well, somewhere out in Golden Co. put a 12 guage in his mouth and went on to the next life.

His old man begrudgingly came down to Kali and claimed his handguns and two ar15s that my buddy had owned since 1994. The old man who was less than savory a character told me I could shove the ammo where the sun don't shine and left.

I finally cut the locks on the pelican cases and found a couple of hicap pmags. Without thinking I just assumed this was like importation, and dismantled them, which is how they are today.

So what is the consensus here on these being inherited?

TNP'R
03-18-2012, 9:19 PM
You can own them you just can't sell them that's what I understand. I could be wrong though.

drunktank
03-18-2012, 9:23 PM
Sorry to hear about your friend.

Muscles Glasses
03-18-2012, 9:24 PM
I wouldn't mess with it. Just the fact that they are Pmags (being newer and made after the ban) instead of usgi mags may raise questions and might get someone into trouble. Block them off and call it a day.

repubconserv
03-18-2012, 9:32 PM
I wouldn't mess with it. Just the fact that they are Pmags (being newer and made after the ban) instead of usgi mags may raise questions and might get someone into trouble. Block them off and call it a day.

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything. He could have legally rebuilt them, and if he truly did "find" them there is not a problem.

OP The only possible problem I see here is your friend left his LCMs with you AFTER 2000. but he is dead, so he can't be prosecuted, and it has been more than 3 years (statute of limitations for LCM crimes) since he left them with you. I would say keep them, but just be cautious

cabinetguy
03-18-2012, 9:41 PM
I will wait for librarian to chime in, but, you did not expect, nor anticipate ownership of any mags, plus you did not know about them, seems like you found them. As far as this asking on the forum if you found them, either you did or you did not. It is all a questin till you get arrested, or your firearms get seized, or you get a summons.
when this happens, did you actually FIND the mags, or not? It sounds like you did, but keep a big picture in mnd.

ponderosa
03-18-2012, 9:59 PM
Man, that is a messed up story, sorry to hear about your friend.

alfred1222
03-18-2012, 10:18 PM
Thats a really tough story, im sorry about your buddy. good luck with the mags and ammo

hemiguy55
03-18-2012, 10:20 PM
ya man im sorry to hear about your friend...

saki302
03-18-2012, 10:31 PM
If you keep them, you did not violate any of the rules. Your friend may have, but not much they can do at this point.

Sorry to hear about the whole thing :(

-Dave

rexblaine
03-18-2012, 10:32 PM
Thanks, I still think of him every time I see a dark blue Audi.

I guess given that I didn't buy them, didn't sell them, didn't build them, didn't import them, and they're now in pieces I'm not breaking any laws.

In this form, I suppose I could mail this whole thing to his Dad in Denver.

locosway
03-18-2012, 11:31 PM
That has absolutely nothing to do with anything. He could have legally rebuilt them, and if he truly did "find" them there is not a problem.

OP The only possible problem I see here is your friend left his LCMs with you AFTER 2000. but he is dead, so he can't be prosecuted, and it has been more than 3 years (statute of limitations for LCM crimes) since he left them with you. I would say keep them, but just be cautious

This sums it up. You did not import, manufacture, or offer for sale.

HK Dave
03-19-2012, 7:36 AM
Sorry about your friend. May God rest his soul.

Omega13device
03-19-2012, 7:49 AM
It is not illegal to possess or find large-capacity magazines. Just don't use them in a rifle with a bullet button or you'll be creating an illegal AW.

peter95
03-19-2012, 7:52 AM
wow, that is horrible and sorry about your loss.

Sorry, I have no idea abou the mags, but know that if anyone ever tries to convict you with anything, it'll all be up to if they believed you or not. Just put limiters on them and keep them as 10 rounders or use the parts from it to rebuild any legal old usgi mags you may have.

just make sure you used them on a featureless...

wang949
03-19-2012, 12:34 PM
bummer story. sorry to hear about your friend.

m03
03-19-2012, 12:54 PM
Wow. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but was he a beta tester? They were announced at SHOT Show in 2007, and I've read accounts posted on Weapon Evolution stating that they were still in prototype stage as of February of 2007.

If they were inside a locked container that was given to you in 2006, then the only way that he would have had them is that he either (1) worked for Magpul, (2) was a beta tester, or (3) he had a time machine.

...or you're remembering your dates incorrectly.

peter95
03-19-2012, 1:07 PM
You do know that you can use the Pmags to rebuild any legally owned 30cap mags from before right?


Wow. I don't mean to sound insensitive, but was he a beta tester? They were announced at SHOT Show in 2007, and I've read accounts posted on Weapon Evolution stating that they were still in prototype stage as of February of 2007.

If they were inside a locked container that was given to you in 2006, then the only way that he would have had them is that he either (1) worked for Magpul, (2) was a beta tester, or (3) he had a time machine.

...or you're remembering your dates incorrectly.

m03
03-19-2012, 1:15 PM
You do know that you can use the Pmags to rebuild any legally owned 30cap mags from before right?

Yes, but that has little to do with the points brought up so far.

Baconator
03-19-2012, 1:16 PM
You should have left them together. You found the mags, the person who gave them to you is the one who broke the law. AFAIK the statute of limitations is 3 years.

I could find a truck load of 30 round mags and they'd be damn worthless to me because I am not into running a featureless, but that is me.

fighterpilot562
03-19-2012, 1:16 PM
tragic death, may ur friend RIP

stix213
03-19-2012, 1:45 PM
Build yourself a featureless AR and have fun. Just don't use them in a rifle with a bullet button. You're under no obligation to explain to anyone where they came from, even an officer. If an officer ever tried to hassle you over them, remember its up to them to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you committed any illegality within the statute of limitations (3 years I believe, and you haven't committed any illegality anyways), and you don't have to help them prove their case.

Sorry about your buddy quitting on life

XDshooter
03-19-2012, 1:56 PM
The problem now is that you stated you disassembled them. You turned them back into a parts kit.

If you put them together now, you could be charged with manufacturing a high-capacity magazine.

Finding magazines after 2000 brings about some odd circumstances. You can never take them apart. You can never take them out of state and bring them back in. All those little protections afforded to those of us that have mags acquired prior to 2000 have these exemptions. Finding does not.

chead
03-19-2012, 2:15 PM
I actually did legally come into possession of some standard-cap mags recently. Unfortunately for a gun I don't have, but it happens! Sorry to hear about your friend. If the story is accurate you should be legit.

chead
03-19-2012, 2:17 PM
The problem now is that you stated you disassembled them. You turned them back into a parts kit.
That doesn't make sense because you can legally repair/rebuild broken standard-cap mags which would involve disassembling them in the first place. I'm pretty sure once you come into possession of a standard-cap mag it remains so forever regardless, excepting the case in which you disassemble it and sell it as a kit. It's about ownership and possession of the mag in the configuration it came to you.

gatesbox
03-19-2012, 2:23 PM
The problem now is that you stated you disassembled them. You turned them back into a parts kit.

If you put them together now, you could be charged with manufacturing a high-capacity magazine.

Finding magazines after 2000 brings about some odd circumstances. You can never take them apart. You can never take them out of state and bring them back in. All those little protections afforded to those of us that have mags acquired prior to 2000 have these exemptions. Finding does not.

This was my first thought, my second thought was that high caps can not be inherited, which is the other rational for this case. However the interesting bit would be the passing of the three year statute, which leaves you with an otherwise legally possessed mag, the question then is can you repair, I.e. take down and rebuild a mag aquired in this manner.

I get flamed all the time in these posts for contesting that these types of scenarios do happen, and result in legally possessed high caps.... But no doubt the end of this thread before it is locked will be.
:twoweeks:

ke6guj
03-19-2012, 2:24 PM
The problem now is that you stated you disassembled them. You turned them back into a parts kit.

If you put them together now, you could be charged with manufacturing a high-capacity magazine.

Finding magazines after 2000 brings about some odd circumstances. You can never take them apart.where does it say that?

You can never take them out of state and bring them back in.this is correct.


I actually did legally come into possession of some standard-cap mags recently. Unfortunately for a gun I don't have, but it happens! Sorry to hear about your friend. If the story is accurate you should be legit.heck, sounds fortunate to me. just gives me a reason to buy another gun:p

emsalex
03-19-2012, 2:25 PM
i took to long to type! also browsing the wiki and found

"DOJ feels that assembling a magazine from pre-manufactured parts does constitute manufacture. "


Are you saying that he was A-ok before he disassembled them? I was cleaning up after some people who thought the range was also there personal dump, and found a 30rnd magazine in a fast food bag with a few rounds. If that magazine came home with me it's all legal unless i take it apart?
Unless i have missed something the many times i have read this law( would not surprise me!) thank makes no sense to me.

newglockster
03-19-2012, 2:26 PM
The problem now is that you stated you disassembled them. You turned them back into a parts kit.

If you put them together now, you could be charged with manufacturing a high-capacity magazine.

Finding magazines after 2000 brings about some odd circumstances. You can never take them apart. You can never take them out of state and bring them back in. All those little protections afforded to those of us that have mags acquired prior to 2000 have these exemptions. Finding does not.

Just playing devil's advocate here... Don't you turn your magazines into 'parts kits' everytime you dissasmble them for cleaning? So, what is the difference?

I know, it's California, but it doesn't make sense at all... :(

Wherryj
03-19-2012, 2:45 PM
A buddy of mine went through a nasty divorce in 2006 and in the effort to keep him gun clear during that ordeal he forced me to keep his arsenal in my safe, ammo included.

In April of 2007 after suffering severe emotional trauma through his divorce and child custody he fell into some bad ways while fighting for his kids visitation once the wife stoe them to Denver. He later found out that his longest childhood friend was having an affair with his ex wife, and well, somewhere out in Golden Co. put a 12 guage in his mouth and went on to the next life.

His old man begrudgingly came down to Kali and claimed his handguns and two ar15s that my buddy had owned since 1994. The old man who was less than savory a character told me I could shove the ammo where the sun don't shine and left.

I finally cut the locks on the pelican cases and found a couple of hicap pmags. Without thinking I just assumed this was like importation, and dismantled them, which is how they are today.

So what is the consensus here on these being inherited?

Sorry to hear about your friend. Unfortunately it seems that life sometimes throws too much too quickly. It is unfortunate that he didn't have a better support group/ability to reach out for help when he needed it. It is tragic.

chead
03-19-2012, 5:03 PM
where does it say that?

this is correct.


heck, sounds fortunate to me. just gives me a reason to buy another gun:p

I wish, and believe me the thought crossed my mind ;) But my gun fund was recently depleted, which in itself is actually a good thing because that means new toys!

Munny$hot
03-19-2012, 5:21 PM
Sorry to hear about your buddy and how he was surrounded by jackasses. Sell them as parts kits and use the money to frame a picture or buy some type of keep sake of their dad to give to them. Be sure to tell them how much he loved them..

XDshooter
03-19-2012, 6:46 PM
where does it say that?


Good point. It doesn't actually. The law actually only addresses importation.

(23)
The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.It would seem as though manufacturing is actually not exempted by this means. That should mean if a magazine is legally acquired by finding it, then this person can not be construed as manufacturing by disassembly/re-assembly.

rexblaine
03-20-2012, 2:29 AM
Probably better just to leave these things as parts, the intention of the law is to impose restriction and I'm nobodys example.

I can wait two weeks. :-)

shadowofnight
03-20-2012, 5:12 AM
Good point. It doesn't actually. The law actually only addresses importation.

It would seem as though manufacturing is actually not exempted by this means. That should mean if a magazine is legally acquired by finding it, then this person can not be construed as manufacturing by disassembly/re-assembly.

What a refreshing post, someone on the forum actually admitting they were incorrect on a topic ...in a nicely written follow up post.

You sir , have my upmost respect.


He found the mags in a standard ( Hi cap, man I hate that term ) configuration, he can clean ( Disassemble/Reassemble ) them all he wants....just dont insert them into a bullet button rifle and he is good to go.

I see a featureless build in your future. :)

SURVIVOR619
03-20-2012, 7:24 AM
I won't be able to offer anything other than the other CGers above, but can offer my sincere condolences. Take care brother!

hnoppenberger
03-20-2012, 8:52 AM
those are your mags, whats the problem? possession is legal

SR-71 BLACKBIRD
03-20-2012, 9:09 AM
Wow, sorry to hear about your friend. One of my employees took his life in the similar way recently. Very sad.

Just put some mag blockers in your pmags with some JB weld so seal the bottom and call it a day.

Hope your grieving process isn't to hard on you. May your buddy RIP.