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oceanwest
04-13-2007, 4:07 PM
Can I modify a legal hi-cap magazine to allow more capacity?

I have several factory pre-ban hi-cap para p14 mags, and there is a modification to allow an additional round in the mag by extending the mag slightly.

I've tried searching the forum and although I did not find anything specifically answering my question it does seem that repair/replacement parts are allowed. I was wondering if this simply counts as replacement parts, or if increasing capacity is a big no?

grammaton76
04-13-2007, 4:15 PM
If the mag held 11 or more rounds, and you had it before 2000, you can mutate it into whatever you want provided that it still works in the gun it was originally designed for. This includes adding capacity.

bwiese
04-13-2007, 6:37 PM
As Grammy says.

There are no degrees, levels or tiers of hicap mag status. It either holds over 10rds, or it doesn't, and you either possessed it on or before 12/31/1999, or you didn't. Period.

AfricanHunter
04-13-2007, 6:38 PM
How does this work? Say I have a 20 round AR mag that I bought in '93, Could I replace all the parts to make it a 30 round mag and destroy the original parts? What about a drum mag? Do some of the original parts have to be the same?

grammaton76
04-13-2007, 6:41 PM
How does this work? Say I have a 20 round AR mag that I bought in '93, Could I replace all the parts to make it a 30 round mag and destroy the original parts?

Yes, although I would advise against destroying the original parts. You may end up needing them some day, just don't assemble them. Insert standard zombie disclaimer here, however. If there are zombies, it doesn't matter, build it back up. A middle route would be to keep all the original parts AND smash the magazine body flat, as proof that you destroyed an old mag body and replaced it with a new one.

What about a drum mag? Do some of the original parts have to be the same?

None of the original parts have to remain the same. HOWEVER, there has to be an "upgrade path" between the two.

If there are any parts shared in common between mags (i.e. followers and floorplates on 20s, 30s, 40s, etc will interchange merrily), then go ahead and do the conversion. You're not building a new mag, you're swapping parts, even if the end result has none of the original parts.

If you can find a drum which uses the same part as some of the original mag, then yes, you can swap over parts and "replace" the old mag with a drum. But so far, no one's been able to think of any drums that use any part of an original AR mag...

AfricanHunter
04-13-2007, 6:47 PM
Cool. Thanks for the explanation

hoffmang
04-13-2007, 7:05 PM
More detailed info if you're curious:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

-Gene

triaged
04-13-2007, 9:44 PM
If you can find a drum which uses the same part as some of the original mag, then yes, you can swap over parts and "replace" the old mag with a drum. But so far, no one's been able to think of any drums that use any part of an original AR mag...Remove air from original mag, disassemble, assemble with drum parts, insert original air.:p

kantstudien
04-13-2007, 10:31 PM
I think I already know the answer to this, but what about sub-10 round magazines which were owned prior to Jan 1, 2000? Can you turn a pre-2000 9round Glock magazine into an 11 rounder via a +2 extension? What about adding a extension to a pre-2000 10rd 1911 mag to make it hold 14 rounds?

hoffmang
04-13-2007, 10:36 PM
You legally can not expand the capacity of a 10 round or less magazine owned prior to 2000 unless the change was made to make it 11 or more rounds prior to 2000.

-Gene

blacklisted
04-14-2007, 12:00 AM
I don't understand how loading a different (smaller) caliber ammunition into a magazine is manufacturing a high capacity magazine. Think of a .458 SOCOM, which uses unmodified 20 and 30 round magazines. With the fat .458 cartridge, these magazines hold 10 or less rounds.

Let's say that someone owns a .458 and a .223 upper. He decides to buy magazines for the .458, so he orders a 7 round (I made this number up) .458 magazine. This magazine just so happens to be identical to a 30 round .223 magazine. In this case, it seems that the determining factor would be whether or not it was marketed as a .458 magazine (as opposed to .223). If this 7 round .458 magazine was purchased out of state and imported here, it couldn't be "importing a high capacity magazine." After the magazine was in his possession, would it be manufacturing a high capacity magazine just to load in a different caliber ammunition? The magazine would still function in the original firearm. That doesn't make any sense.

This sort of thing was NOT fully considered (if it was at all) when the law was drafted. Links are another example of this...

hoffmang
04-14-2007, 12:10 AM
That ability to overload a lower caliber into a large-capacity magazine is one of the issues in Hunt v. Lockyer/Brown.

-Gene

blacklisted
04-14-2007, 12:13 AM
That ability to overload a lower caliber into a large-capacity magazine is one of the issues in Hunt v. Lockyer/Brown.

-Gene

Do you know of any documents where I could read about this?

hoffmang
04-14-2007, 12:14 AM
I have some in paper form that I haven't had time to scan and post. I'm on the road, so sometime later next week potentially.

-Gene