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View Full Version : Adding Long Gun to handgun DROS?


Vin496
03-18-2012, 10:00 AM
Alright I have never heard this before, but in another thread a member here is stating that he has and you can add a lower/rifle to a handgun on the 10th day of a DROS and walk out with all items at the same time.

Meaning you can buy a rifle the day you are there to pickup your handgun and walk out with the rifle the same day as purchase.

Is this possible? I never knew there was a loophole in the 10 day wait.

Bartin
03-18-2012, 10:11 AM
No.
my ffl will do a dros with a pistol and a handgun to save on fees but you still have to wait the 10 days for both. there was a discussion about even having the two on the same dros.

Vin496
03-18-2012, 10:22 AM
No.
my ffl will do a dros with a pistol and a handgun to save on fees but you still have to wait the 10 days for both. there was a discussion about even having the two on the same dros.

I'm with you, I don't think nor have I ever heard of this been a legal option. I think some is talking smack, or has outed themselves.

fighterpilot562
03-18-2012, 10:30 AM
nope, gotta wait the 10 days for the rifle to, cant add it like that i am pretty sure

brianm767
03-18-2012, 10:46 AM
There are some dealers who do it, my local dealer always ask when I pick up my pistol after it's ten day wait, do you want add a rifle or any lowers any amount I want, You can walk out with it right now, they add them to the DROS.

I've asked where does it say you can do that , they reply, where does it say we can't?

When I pick up my next LCP I'll throw in a couple lowers if they have them in stock.

They've been DOJ audited numerous times and no issues as of yet.""PRK Arms""

Vin496
03-18-2012, 10:49 AM
There are some dealers who do it, my local dealer always ask when I pick up my pistol after it's ten day wait, do you want add a rifle or any lowers any amount I want, You can walk out with it right now, they add them to the DROS.

I've asked where does it say you can do that , they reply, where does it say we can't?

When I pick up my next LCP I'll throw in a couple lowers if they have them in stock.

Hmmmm, second person I have heard this from.

So is it ok or not?

brianm767
03-18-2012, 10:52 AM
Hmmmm, second person I have heard this from.

So is it ok or not?

All I can say is they have not been shut down or told not to do it by the DOJ.

skkeeter
03-18-2012, 11:12 AM
There are some dealers who do it, my local dealer always ask when I pick up my pistol after it's ten day wait, do you want add a rifle or any lowers any amount I want, You can walk out with it right now, they add them to the DROS.

I've asked where does it say you can do that , they reply, where does it say we can't?

When I pick up my next LCP I'll throw in a couple lowers if they have them in stock.

They've been DOJ audited numerous times and no issues as of yet.""PRK Arms""

Hopefully it's Ok, as you just outed them on a public forum:eek:

In my experience it's not, as a pistol is registered to you and a rifle is just subject to a background check.

erik_26
03-18-2012, 11:18 AM
I know a place that does the same thing. If you buy a handgun and come back on the tenth day, you can purchase long guns and leave the store with them the same day.

They too get audited but they keep doing it.

Baconator
03-18-2012, 11:21 AM
12072, xii, (c) No dealer, whether or not acting pursuant to Section 12082, shall deliver a firearm to a person, as follows:
(1) Within 10 days of the application to purchase, or, after notice by the department pursuant to subdivision (d) of Section 12076, within 10 days of the submission to the department of any correction to the application, or within 10 days of the submission to the department of any fee required pursuant to subdivision (e) of Section 12076, whichever is later.

Doesn't this say that you cannot take possession of a gun less than 10 days from purchase? If you are purchasing additional guns on pick-up, isn't that in violation of this?

brianm767
03-18-2012, 11:26 AM
Hopefully it's Ok, as you just outed them on a public forum:eek:.

Outed them? Um it's no secret, they are not trying to hide any thing, it's their policy, believe me they are under DOJ scrutiny regularly, DOJ has went through their paperwork numerous times and seen the DROS with the long guns added, it wouldn't take any of us to out them, their records show it all, and their doors are still open, that has to say something.

Has any one ever known of a shop cited for doing this? I also have shops tell me on a regular basis that SSE is illegal, heck some still say off list lowers are illegal, so is the same thing? In a few years will most of the shops be doing this after they see the shops that are doing it now are not cited or shut down?

Baconator
03-18-2012, 12:03 PM
Why is it whenever anyone talks about anything that is questionably illegal do they go to SSE? It's called the single shot exemption, because it follows an exemption to the law. These guns are manufactured to not be required to follow the law pertaining to the "safe handgun roster"

12133. (a) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-action revolver that has at least a 5-cartridge capacity
with a barrel length of not less than three inches, and meets
any of the following specifications:
(1) Was originally manufactured prior to 1900 and is a curio or
relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of
Federal Regulations.
(2) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled.
(3) Has an overall length measured parallel to the barrel of at
least 71/2 inches when the handle, frame or receiver, and
barrel are assembled and that is currently approved for
importation into the United States pursuant to the provisions
of paragraph (3) of subsection (d) of Section 925 of Title 18
of the United States Code.

(b) The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to a
single-shot pistol with a barrel length of not less than six
inches and that has an overall length of at least 10 1/2 inches
when the handle, frame or receiver, and barrel are assembled.

**note: anything not explicitly prohibited by the law is legal


Is there a 10 day wait exemption? Sure there is, its right there in the pc 12078 (which lists the exemptions to the 10 day wait). Where in the law is the 10 day exemption for delivering any guns prior to 10 days of purchase because the ffl felt like doing it? Just because they do it and haven't been caught doesn't mean it isn't illegal.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

brianm767
03-18-2012, 1:00 PM
Why is it whenever anyone talks about anything that is questionably illegal do they go to SSE? It's called the single shot exemption, because it follows an exemption to the law. These guns are manufactured to not be required to follow the law pertaining to

Just picked it as well as off list lowers as example as some of the things that some shops say is illegal and others say it is not, just as adding long rifles/lowers to pistol DROS, some say it's ok, others say it not. That's all.

Baconator
03-18-2012, 1:03 PM
Just picked it as well as off list lowers as example as some of the things that some shops say is illegal and others say it is not, just as adding long rifles/lowers to pistol DROS, some say it's ok, others say it not. That's all.

But there is a specific law, or more specifically an exemption to another law addressing the off-roster purchases. I can't find, but would like to if it is possible, a law that exempts someone from the 10 day wait in a manner that we are talking about. This isn't the only time I have seen SSE be compared to other questionably legal things, not just you.

brianm767
03-18-2012, 1:09 PM
But there is a specific law, or more specifically an exemption to another law addressing the off-roster purchases. I can't find, but would like to if it is possible, a law that exempts someone from the 10 day wait in a manner that we are talking about. This isn't the only time I have seen SSE be compared to other questionably legal things, not just you.

Me and you are on the same page, I don't disagree with you , even though there is a specific law pertaining to SSE , some shops still say it is illegal.

I know theres no law for adding guns, it's about interpretation, but if dealers have such a hard time with issues where it is covered by law, imagine how much problem they have where it's about interpretation.

Oceanbob
03-18-2012, 1:15 PM
There are some dealers who do it, my local dealer always ask when I pick up my pistol after it's ten day wait, do you want add a rifle or any lowers any amount I want, You can walk out with it right now, they add them to the DROS.

I've asked where does it say you can do that , they reply, where does it say we can't?

When I pick up my next LCP I'll throw in a couple lowers if they have them in stock.

They've been DOJ audited numerous times and no issues as of yet.""PRK Arms""

This^^

I think I've picked up a dozen rifles and one lower at various FFLs.

Consider that there is no long gun registration in this State.

Consider that even if you are only buying a rifle, you will wait the 10 days and the DROS paperwork to the CDOJ doesn't even have a space for the make, model or serial number. And after 15 days, the transaction is automatically deleted from the CDOJ Computer.. They don't even know you own a rifle. :)

Also, consider that buying a handgun, they do save the make, model and serial number in the computer, forever. They have done a complete backround check and determined you are good-to-go.

When you pick up your handgun, it does no harm for the FFL to sell you a long gun to take home with the handgun. Nothing will change. The CDOJ doesn't keep records on long gun sales. The only thing the FFL has to do it have you sign another federal form (that California doesn't see) and store that form in his pile of papers for 20 years. Even the Feds don't get copy of it. :)

Seriously this is done everyday. Not by every FFL but if your a good customer who just passed a handgun backround check...why not..?

Be well, Bob

Baconator
03-18-2012, 1:26 PM
Me and you are on the same page, I don't disagree with you , even though there is a specific law pertaining to SSE , some shops still say it is illegal.

I know theres no law for adding guns, it's about interpretation, but if dealers have such a hard time with issues where it is covered by law, imagine how much problem they have where it's about interpretation.

Gotya

This^^

I think I've picked up a dozen rifles and one lower at various FFLs.

Consider that there is no long gun registration in this State.

Consider that even if you are only buying a rifle, you will wait the 10 days and the DROS paperwork to the CDOJ doesn't even have a space for the make, model or serial number. And after 15 days, the transaction is automatically deleted from the CDOJ Computer.. They don't even know you own a rifle. :)

Also, consider that buying a handgun, they do save the make, model and serial number in the computer, forever. They have done a complete backround check and determined you are good-to-go.

When you pick up your handgun, it does no harm for the FFL to sell you a long gun to take home with the handgun. Nothing will change. The CDOJ doesn't keep records on long gun sales. The only thing the FFL has to do it have you sign another federal form (that California doesn't see) and store that form in his pile of papers for 20 years. Even the Feds don't get copy of it. :)

Seriously this is done everyday. Not by every FFL but if your a good customer who just passed a handgun backround check...why not..?

Be well, Bob

Because it is against the law that's "why not." I am not arguing whether or not it seems like something that makes sense, there isn't any reasonable reason that a person who already owns guns should have to wait 10 days period, but the law says you can't deliver a gun to someone less than 10 days after they paid for it. That's what the law says, unless someone can show otherwise, so anyone doing that is breaking this law. We all can get away with breaking all kinds of laws, you can go in your garage an assemble high cap magazines and build assault rifles to your heart's content and no one will ever know, it's still against the law.

Oceanbob
03-18-2012, 1:34 PM
but the law says you can't deliver a gun to someone less than 10 days after they paid for it. heart's content and no one will ever know, it's still against the law.

Ever heard of people correcting paperwork.? The FFL adds the weapon to the original DROS and that takes care of the 10 day thing.

There is no law that says the FFL can't do it. It's being done everyday. And I just heard from someone that TURNERs will do this on a new handgun sale, not a PPT however.

Be well, Bob

Baconator
03-18-2012, 1:39 PM
Ever heard of people correcting paperwork.? The FFL adds the weapon to the original DROS and that takes care of the 10 day thing.

There is no law that says the FFL can't do it. It's being done everyday. And I just heard from someone that TURNERs will do this on a new handgun sale, not a PPT however.

Be well, Bob

How does modifying the paperwork to add a gun after 10 days to say that it was sold 10 days ago make the gun actually sold 10 days prior to delivery of the gun? The law says you can't deliver a gun less than 10 days from the date of sale except for specific exemptions, that's the law that says they can't deliver a gun less than 10 days after the sale. Is there a way to change physical time in the paperwork? Just because people do it all the time it doesn't make it legal. I don't know how you can read the law and think otherwise. How could they do it on a handgun sale, don't they have to submit a serial number with the DROS? Correcting paperwork would be a transposed letter or number, how could you just add another ser#?

Oceanbob
03-18-2012, 3:18 PM
There is no serial number on the DROS for a long gun. No make, model either.
Nothing the CDOJ keeps on file. Since the buyer is already "approved" for a handgun (backround check complete) adding a long gun is no problem.

You would be surprised that this is common.

Be well , Bob

jbooker9
03-18-2012, 5:03 PM
I've picked up a rifle two different times from two different ffls after 10 day dros when buying another firearm. Does anyone know if ammo bros will do this? I was plan to add a rifle to purchase tomorrow

Baconator
03-18-2012, 5:25 PM
There is no serial number on the DROS for a long gun. No make, model either.
Nothing the CDOJ keeps on file. Since the buyer is already "approved" for a handgun (backround check complete) adding a long gun is no problem.

You would be surprised that this is common.

Be well , Bob

Ok Bob, I'm not gonna argue with you. I see what the law says and you see what actually happens. I hope, for the sake of the FFLs that practice this, that I am wrong.

Be well.

Peter W Bush
03-18-2012, 5:27 PM
tagged. If this is true it is great

JNunez23
03-18-2012, 5:33 PM
Interesting...

brianm767
03-18-2012, 6:03 PM
tagged. If this is true it is great

Well it is true that it happens, well just have to wait and see if DOJ says it's not legal, so far they haven't stopped it, I would think if it was not legal they would have stopped it by now.

As for me, I'll keep adding lowers every time I pick up a hand gun.

Baconator
03-18-2012, 6:04 PM
Well it is true that it happens, well just have to wait and see if DOJ says it's not legal, so far they haven't stopped it, I would think if it was not legal they would have stopped it by now.

As for me, I'll keep adding lowers every time I pick up a hand gun.

like bob says, how would they know? the only way to catch it would be to have a doj agent start a sale and then attempt it at the end. I don't think this is likely.

Paul053
03-18-2012, 6:21 PM
This^^


Consider that even if you are only buying a rifle, you will wait the 10 days and the DROS paperwork to the CDOJ doesn't even have a space for the make, model or serial number. And after 15 days, the transaction is automatically deleted from the CDOJ Computer.. They don't even know you own a rifle. :)


Be well, Bob

So why even do a PPT? If the CADOJ doesn't keep the records why not just cash and carry? Is this one of those "because its California" answers?

Baconator
03-18-2012, 6:23 PM
So why even do a PPT? If the CADOJ doesn't keep the records why not just cash and carry? Is this one of those "because its California" answers?

no **** right? I have 3 lowers, why shouldn't I just cash and carry them. Who would know.

Sosoomi
03-18-2012, 6:23 PM
Actually what the "law" says is within 10 days of 'application to purchase'... No mention of money changing hands....

Baconator
03-18-2012, 6:25 PM
Actually what the "law" says is within 10 days of 'application to purchase'... No mention of money changing hands....

OK, come by my lower and them pick it up in 10 days/.

brianm767
03-18-2012, 6:26 PM
So why even do a PPT? If the CADOJ doesn't keep the records why not just cash and carry? Is this one of those "because its California" answers?

No It's so we have to go through a background check, if you or the seller is prohibited, the sale will not go through, it's not about the gun, but it will also come up if it's stolen, I personally agree that all sales have to go through a background check, but it should be instant like most of the rest of the US. We just wait ten days for a cool off period.

Baconator
03-18-2012, 6:27 PM
No It's so we have to go through a background check, if you or the seller is prohibited, the sale will not go through, it's not about the gun, but it will also come up if it's stolen, I personally agree that all sales have to go through a background check, but it should be instant like most of the rest of the US. We just wait ten days for a cool off period.

Ok, well I just bought a gun last week from a dealer so I already had my background check. Somebody sell me some rifles and lowers, cash and carry.

brianm767
03-18-2012, 6:28 PM
no **** right? I have 3 lowers, why shouldn't I just cash and carry them. Who would know.

No one, but how do you know if your selling them to some one who is prohibited unless you PPT.

Baconator
03-18-2012, 6:30 PM
No one, but how do you know if your selling them to some one who is prohibited unless you PPT.

I can trust a man's word, right?

brianm767
03-18-2012, 6:40 PM
I can trust a man's word, right?

Yah that always works.

mod1217
03-18-2012, 6:59 PM
I hope RifleGear does this I'm schedule to pick up my rifle on Monday, and if they do, you can bet there is at least 1 lower thats going home with that rifle.

Paul053
03-18-2012, 7:53 PM
No It's so we have to go through a background check, if you or the seller is prohibited, the sale will not go through, it's not about the gun, but it will also come up if it's stolen, I personally agree that all sales have to go through a background check, but it should be instant like most of the rest of the US. We just wait ten days for a cool off period.

Knew I was missing something!:facepalm:

jbooker9
03-18-2012, 9:00 PM
I hope RifleGear does this I'm schedule to pick up my rifle on Monday, and if they do, you can bet there is at least 1 lower thats going home with that rifle.

Adding a rifle to another rifle dros is no problem. The debate is wether it can be done on a pistol dros.

jbooker9
03-18-2012, 9:03 PM
Ok, well I just bought a gun last week from a dealer so I already had my background check. Somebody sell me some rifles and lowers, cash and carry.

So by your logic we also shouldn't be allowed to add another rifle to a rifle dros.

jbooker9
03-18-2012, 10:10 PM
Ok Bob, I'm not gonna argue with you. I see what the law says and you see what actually happens. I hope, for the sake of the FFLs that practice this, that I am wrong.

Be well.

Here is some interesting reading on this subject debated at great lengths.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=31037

chad68
03-19-2012, 12:22 AM
How about this.

I did DROS on a long gun same day I ordered it, March 3rd. My pickup day was last wednsday but they screwed up on the order and I will be picking it up this wednesday instead.

My question is this, can I take my DROS receipt and go to a different gun shop and walk out same day with a rifle? Or can I only do this with the same gun shop?

sickboy774
03-19-2012, 2:09 AM
I recently picked up and 870 & added a LMT 6.8 SPC after the 10 day wait for the scattergun. Nice little cherry on top i thought. :D

tenpercentfirearms
03-19-2012, 5:35 AM
Some dealers do it, some dealers don't. The DOJ always likes to tell you that you have to start another DROS because they want the money, especially now that the extra funds go into their pockets directly. So if your dealer doesn't do it, respect that position.