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View Full Version : such thing as a budget precision rifle to learn with?


RyanOT
03-17-2012, 5:03 PM
looking to get into this long range game... But not trying to empty the bank account. Is it true the glass is more important than the rifle? I'm completely novice and have been trying to search and have yet to find some good info. Thanks.

mlevans66
03-17-2012, 5:09 PM
Look into getting a remington 700 or Howa with a nice Leupold, Weaver, Vortex scope. Should not cost you to much. Once you work the money you can sell either and work your way to someting better.

osis32
03-17-2012, 5:11 PM
Tikka is another option

elsolo
03-17-2012, 5:12 PM
The rifle is perhaps the least important part of the equation, the shooter's knowledge and experience being the most important.

Just my opinion, others will certainly disagree.

vintagearms
03-17-2012, 5:12 PM
I agree with Mlevans66's post. Might add Savage to the mix as well.

Fherot
03-17-2012, 5:12 PM
I'd look at the newer model Savages (used is fine in good shape) with the accu-trigger and maybe even the accu-stock. They're found for under $600 and very accurate rifles.

Pick a caliber based on what type of game you're looking for, I personally think you can't go wrong with something like .243 for everything as small as varmint up to deer and maybe elk.

Very flat trajectory round with mild recoil and if you reload you can also neck down .308 or surplus military 7.62x51 brass (note that the 7.62mm brass is thicker and will have a different powder formula).

And as far as a scope you just want to make sure you have a good all around unit not necessarily the $1500+ night vision illuminated Nightforce etc...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/746570/simmons-whitetail-classic-rifle-scope-65-20x-50mm-adjustable-objective-truplex-reticle-matte

$109.99

I don't think you could beat that for the price for long range hunting/shooting.

There's other options of course but I don't think anyone would say the above would let you down.

atakacorp
03-17-2012, 5:13 PM
For 2000,you can get Tikka Sporter 6.5X55SE and Leupold 10x scope or you can get Mosin 200$ :)

RyanOT
03-17-2012, 5:25 PM
what is more "tactical"?

gunafficionado
03-17-2012, 5:30 PM
Savage - the best deal in budget "accurate" rifles right now.

Fherot
03-17-2012, 5:30 PM
Tactical means they paint it black or camou and charge you twice as much.

atakacorp
03-17-2012, 5:31 PM
what is more "tactical"?

Dude,googl it hit images :43:

is this tactical enuf ?
http://www.tikka.fi/t3models.php?sporter

Baconator
03-17-2012, 5:40 PM
I have a .308 Remington Varmint with one of these http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P499.aspx that I bought to learn how to shoot at distance. I haven't had a chance to play with it but the scope was recommended as a good entry one.

I paid $545.80 for the scope, rings, screws, harris bipod and $703.86 for the rifle, tax, and transfer fees (ordered from davidson's). I am sure I could have gotten something cheaper, but I like this setup. One day when I get the dies for .308 I'll be able to get some good distance loads going.

RyanOT
03-17-2012, 5:42 PM
i have been google'n it. Like the 700 has a "tactical" heavy barrel. Is that better than the long range model?

atakacorp
03-17-2012, 5:46 PM
can you tell us how much you have to spend?

peter95
03-17-2012, 5:48 PM
Yes, glass is important but also is the rifle.
Glass helps you look closer. Howa are great rifles, very affordable. I would go that route. Much cheaper than remmy's and pretty much same performance.

milotrain
03-17-2012, 5:51 PM
You need to specify the following:
1. What are you going to do with it? (Paper or organic)
2. At what range are you going to do it? (100-400, 400-800, 800+)
3. Where are you going to be shooting it? (Dry SoCal, or wet woods NorCal)
4. What is your budget?
5. Are you budgeting any training?
6. Are you budgeting or do you have reloading equipment?

m16
03-17-2012, 5:54 PM
I have a .308 Remington Varmint with one of these http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-30mm-Riflescope-P499.aspx that I bought to learn how to shoot at distance. I haven't had a chance to play with it but the scope was recommended as a good entry one.

I paid $545.80 for the scope, rings, screws, harris bipod and $703.86 for the rifle, tax, and transfer fees (ordered from davidson's). I am sure I could have gotten something cheaper, but I like this setup. One day when I get the dies for .308 I'll be able to get some good distance loads going.

I second this.

I am currently in the market for a scope and I'm considering the SWFA SS 3x9, it's priced right and will allow me to get in some trigger time until I can afford something else.

Peter.Steele
03-17-2012, 5:58 PM
I'd look at the newer model Savages (used is fine in good shape) with the accu-trigger and maybe even the accu-stock. They're found for under $600 and very accurate rifles.

Pick a caliber based on what type of game you're looking for, I personally think you can't go wrong with something like .243 for everything as small as varmint up to deer and maybe elk.

Very flat trajectory round with mild recoil and if you reload you can also neck down .308 or surplus military 7.62x51 brass (note that the 7.62mm brass is thicker and will have a different powder formula).

And as far as a scope you just want to make sure you have a good all around unit not necessarily the $1500+ night vision illuminated Nightforce etc...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/746570/simmons-whitetail-classic-rifle-scope-65-20x-50mm-adjustable-objective-truplex-reticle-matte

$109.99

I don't think you could beat that for the price for long range hunting/shooting.

There's other options of course but I don't think anyone would say the above would let you down.


Ooof. After buying groceries and tires this morning I can't swing that ... wish I could ... I've got an adapter for my 91/30 PU that will let me mount a modern scope, and that would be PERFECT.

milotrain
03-17-2012, 6:00 PM
You don't want a heavy barrel if you have to cary the thing through the woods all day.

RyanOT
03-17-2012, 6:16 PM
You need to specify the following:
1. What are you going to do with it? (papar
2. At what range are you going to do it? (as far as I can)
3. Where are you going to be shooting it? (nor cal, ranges)
4. What is your budget? lets say $500 rifle /$500 glass
5. Are you budgeting any training? Not at first
6. Are you budgeting or do you have reloading equipment? No

atakacorp
03-17-2012, 6:20 PM
You need to specify the following:
1. What are you going to do with it? (papar
2. At what range are you going to do it? (as far as I can)
3. Where are you going to be shooting it? (nor cal, ranges)
4. What is your budget? lets say $500 rifle /$500 glass
5. Are you budgeting any training? Not at first
6. Are you budgeting or do you have reloading equipment? No

Savage 10 fp and Leupold 3-9X42 200$ delivered from Cabelas
https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/70992

milotrain
03-17-2012, 6:26 PM
If you are not getting any training and you are not reloading then you are pretty limited accuracy wise to something like 600yards. You can certainly shoot further but you will only be lobbing things in by luck. Are you planning on shooting matches with this or is it just for fun?

Match shooting to 600yards typically doesn't include shooting with glass so if you want to shoot 600 or under you should look at a rifle with iron sights (service rifle or match rifle). If you want to shoot F-class you'll need to reload.

1000yards requires significant doping of wind and drop, a rifle can't do that for you, you have to do it yourself so no matter how much you spend you won't be accurate out there unless you get some coaching and you are reloading. There is really no way around that.

"as far as I can" is realistically 600 yards without reloading, and you can be accurate to 600 yards with irons (at least in terms of match shooting)

RyanOT
03-17-2012, 6:30 PM
like I said Im looking for something to learn with. Not trying to be a match shooter, just looking for something different than my AR

CSACANNONEER
03-17-2012, 6:32 PM
Ability
Glass
Mounts
Ammo
Rifle

in that order. Ability being more than 50% of the overall equation. So, for an inexpensive way to learn and aquire the ability, get a good .22lr, great glass and quality (Wolf Match, Eley, 10X, etc.) ammo and start learing. While getting cheap trigger time, learn to reload precision ammo and research the exact rifle and glass combo you want for a centerfire rifle.

milotrain
03-17-2012, 6:34 PM
That may have come across grouchy and it wasn't meant to. I'm just trying to help you have realistic expectations. There is nothing wrong with building a good rifle with glass, learning to shoot it to 600yards and then deciding you have to reload to go any further. I just wanted to let you know that if you want to buy a gun tomorrow and go be awesome at 1k it's not going to happen and there is no gun at any price that can do that for you. I'm not saying you feel this way, but it sucks to spend money and then realize that you had an unrealistic expectation.

Having said that, everything you need to learn to be accurate at 1k with glass you can learn shooting your AR in a Highpower match with iron sights. But I know that there is a significant "I just want to buy another toy damnit." drive in all of us (I have it too).

CSACANNONEER is right, you can learn a lot with smallbore. There is a reason that smallbore shooting is an olympic sport.

CSACANNONEER
03-17-2012, 6:44 PM
BTW, I do shoot 1000 yard .50 cal matches. So, I'm not against shooting centerfire. I just know the value of quality trigger time with a good small bore can directly relate to XLR shooting bigbore shooting.

Coyotegunner
03-17-2012, 6:59 PM
Depends on what a persons idea of budget is.
A light very accurate rifle out of the box is like another stated.Tikka,Sakos
I get along pretty well with the Remington Senderos and PSS.As a matter fact a guy has a PSS for sale on here for I think $1350 with a Leupold 6.5-20.I am broke and already own one or I would be telling you about my purchasing it already.
Take up reloading and it opens a world up to precision and consumes a lot of time.
ARs are like Mr Potato Head.Add a couple uppers in different calibers.I am looking for a 6.8 now.I like my others in 204,223.Having a AR10 as well,I want other uppers for it also.
Good luck with your choice.

rkt88edmo
03-17-2012, 7:02 PM
Randall (ar15barrels) has some posts up (maybe here too still?) defiintely at the precision rifle forum, he has equipment suggestions at different price points.

If you are really concerned about cost, go .22lr

send it_hit
03-17-2012, 7:16 PM
i got a tikka to learn the long range game on... it has served me well. I use a bushnell 3200 elite scope, but if i could afford it, would be using nightforce. so yeah, the glass matters, but what matters more is actually getting out and shooting.

RyanOT
03-17-2012, 7:43 PM
would it be smart to shoot .223 sense I already shoot it in my AR? or whats the best round to get good quality match grade ammo from box?

CSACANNONEER
03-17-2012, 7:54 PM
would it be smart to shoot .223 sense I already shoot it in my AR? or whats the best round to get good quality match grade ammo from box?

You'll never maximize the preformance of your rifle with factory ammo. But Federal Gold Match .308 should get you close.

russ69
03-17-2012, 8:07 PM
...you should look at a rifle with iron sights (service rifle or match rifle)...

One of the cheapest good guns is an AR15. If you already have an AR just get a National Match upper. That will take you to 600 and with a little work, you can learn to go to 1000. As others have said, you'll need to handload to really learn what you are doing.

milotrain
03-17-2012, 8:26 PM
Making a .223 go passed 600yards accurately is a bit of black magic. The problem is bullet weight. And while Berger Sierra Hornady and Nosler make 80gr pills they wont load to an ar's mag length and they get awfully bouncy at range. Stick with the .308. Or shoot the ar at 600 and under until you know how you want to stretch your legs.

707electrician
03-17-2012, 8:49 PM
If you are not getting any training and you are not reloading then you are pretty limited accuracy wise to something like 600yards. You can certainly shoot further but you will only be lobbing things in by luck. Are you planning on shooting matches with this or is it just for fun?

Match shooting to 600yards typically doesn't include shooting with glass so if you want to shoot 600 or under you should look at a rifle with iron sights (service rifle or match rifle). If you want to shoot F-class you'll need to reload.

1000yards requires significant doping of wind and drop, a rifle can't do that for you, you have to do it yourself so no matter how much you spend you won't be accurate out there unless you get some coaching and you are reloading. There is really no way around that.

"as far as I can" is realistically 600 yards without reloading, and you can be accurate to 600 yards with irons (at least in terms of match shooting)

I would say that this post is pretty untrue. You can shoot matches under 600 yards with a scope and you can also shoot fairly accurate past 600 without formal training and without reloading. If you know how to use a ballistic calculator app and have factory match ammo it's fairly easy actually

707electrician
03-17-2012, 8:55 PM
OP- you should pick up an inexpensive rifle like a savage, tikka or Remington, get a decent inexpensive scope (I recommend a vortex viper for around $500) and come out to the long range matches with us at sac valley. Low pressure and tons of fun and you can shoot anywhere from 200-1000 yards

atakacorp
03-17-2012, 9:20 PM
OP- you should pick up an inexpensive rifle like a savage, tikka or Remington, get a decent inexpensive scope (I recommend a vortex viper for around $500) and come out to the long range matches with us at sac valley. Low pressure and tons of fun and you can shoot anywhere from 200-1000 yards

+1 ,you guys scaring OP ,dry, wet weather, com'on, he want to shoot bolt action and have 1" MOA at 100 yards and maybe some hits at 1000:43:

milotrain
03-17-2012, 9:53 PM
I would say that this post is pretty untrue. You can shoot matches under 600 yards with a scope and you can also shoot fairly accurate past 600 without formal training and without reloading. If you know how to use a ballistic calculator app and have factory match ammo it's fairly easy actually

What matches?
What is "fairly accurate passed 600 yards?"

1 MOA at 1000yards is 10". That's extreme edges of center-mass on anything living, and it's the X ring on an NRA LR target. You are saying that with a basic rifle and basic scope and factory ammo you can be sub 2 MOA when the bullet is dropping 7 feet and you can't read the wind?

I'm not trying to scare him, I'm trying to encourage him to make a good choice rather than just buying a safe queen that gets shot twice and then put away because it's not so much fun when you can't hit what you want.

If you spend less than your budget on a White Oak Upper for your AR and an A2 stock you can learn to shoot well shooting highpower, where there are plenty of matches and plenty of people who want to help you learn. Then it's a stone's throw to shooting F-Class or "accurately to 1000yards with glass."

CSACANNONEER
03-17-2012, 10:09 PM
What matches?
What is "fairly accurate passed 600 yards?"

1 MOA at 1000yards is 10". That's extreme edges of center-mass on anything living, and it's the X ring on an NRA LR target. You are saying that with a basic rifle and basic scope and factory ammo you can be sub 2 MOA when the bullet is dropping 7 feet and you can't read the wind?

I'm not trying to scare him, I'm trying to encourage him to make a good choice rather than just buying a safe queen that gets shot twice and then put away because it's not so much fun when you can't hit what you want.

If you spend less than your budget on a White Oak Upper for your AR and an A2 stock you can learn to shoot well shooting highpower, where there are plenty of matches and plenty of people who want to help you learn. Then it's a stone's throw to shooting F-Class or "accurately to 1000yards with glass."


What bullet only drops 7 feet at 1000 yards? I know my 50BMG bullets drop around 28-30 feet at 1000 yards. Otherwise, I agree that some here are encouraging the OP to go buy a magical rifle instead of just learning to shoot a rimfire rifle at 100-200 yards first.

milotrain
03-17-2012, 10:15 PM
You are right, I'm thinking 61" at 600 yards. That's what my drop is at max, but that's because I only shoot to 600.

CSACANNONEER
03-17-2012, 10:30 PM
You are right, I'm thinking 61" at 600 yards. That's what my drop is at max, but that's because I only shoot to 600.

Got it.

707electrician
03-17-2012, 10:33 PM
I would say shooting iron sights at 600 yards would be more frustrating for a first time long range shooter than shooting a scoped rifle at 1000 yards. The first time I shot my .308 at 1000 yards I was all over the target but I still had a ton of fun. And just because you have a scoped rifle doesnt mean it has to only be used at long range, he can shoot it under 600 yards, still have fun and get trigger time behind the gun he plans on shooting long range

tdyoung1958
03-17-2012, 10:39 PM
Howa M1500 with a hogue overmold stock and scope <$700

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa_hogue20hvy.html

enough to afford a bipod and enough ammo to build a reload base

My first LR shooter was a Howa, the trigger is adjustable, the stock is nice. Mine came without a scope and was a 22" barrel. Very accurate.

I added a Sightmark Scope http://swfa.com/Sightmark-85-25x50-Triple-Duty-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P50783.aspx

Harris Bipod and still had enough to buy some good ammo. for under 1k

I now shoot a 300 win mag. with a Nightforce that's about 2 1/2 x your budget

707electrician
03-17-2012, 10:42 PM
What matches?
What is "fairly accurate passed 600 yards?"

1 MOA at 1000yards is 10". That's extreme edges of center-mass on anything living, and it's the X ring on an NRA LR target. You are saying that with a basic rifle and basic scope and factory ammo you can be sub 2 MOA when the bullet is dropping 7 feet and you can't read the wind?

I'm not trying to scare him, I'm trying to encourage him to make a good choice rather than just buying a safe queen that gets shot twice and then put away because it's not so much fun when you can't hit what you want.

If you spend less than your budget on a White Oak Upper for your AR and an A2 stock you can learn to shoot well shooting highpower, where there are plenty of matches and plenty of people who want to help you learn. Then it's a stone's throw to shooting F-Class or "accurately to 1000yards with glass."

What matches- the monthly Folsom shooting club matches at sac valley
How accurate- depends on the shooter but I bet he'll be able to get on paper and stay on paper and I guarantee that no matter what his score is at the end of the day he will have had fun and will want to come back

Pthfndr
03-17-2012, 10:44 PM
I would say shooting iron sights at 600 yards would be more frustrating for a first time long range shooter than shooting a scoped rifle at 1000 yards.

Have you tried it?

It's not.

:)

707electrician
03-17-2012, 10:48 PM
Have you tried it?

It's not.

:)

I'll be out there next month with my new service rifle :)

russ69
03-17-2012, 11:17 PM
Making a .223 go passed 600yards accurately is a bit of black magic. The problem is bullet weight. And while Berger Sierra hornady and bolster make 80gr pills the wont load to an ar's mag length and the get awfully bouncy at range. Stick with the .308. Or shoot the ar at 600 and under until you know how you want to stretch your legs.

Ah shucks. Sure it takes a little work and you'll be loading single shot anyway. And yeah a 1/11 twist .223 won't get there but service rifle shooter Grant Scott shot a 1221-44X (1250 is perfect) at the national matches last year. That's not to shabby. Oh, they all shoot the same ammo, it's custom loaded but not for individual guns. A good AR is cheap and getting a good 308 is going to cost some money.

freonr22
03-18-2012, 12:22 AM
These won't work?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277730473

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276956290

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277732812

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276870875

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=278171491

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=276830564

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=277598051

kmullins
03-18-2012, 12:49 AM
OP,

I'll have to agree that if your looking at getting into any type of precision/accuracy oriented shooting, start with a .22LR and at least find out if your into it.

Don't make the mistake of reading all these cool long stories about people shooting long range and think your going to like it. Dip your toe in before you do a bellyflop. You may find that it's not fun at all to you.

Sounds like your into the tactical thing. Buy the CZ 455 with the Manners stock, Harris 6-9 BRMS bipod, the best scope you can afford mounted in Burris Signature Zee rings and some Wolf MT ammo and shoot on a regular basis.

My $.02, good luck to you.

milotrain
03-18-2012, 8:44 AM
Ah shucks. Sure it takes a little work and you'll be loading single shot anyway. And yeah a 1/11 twist .223 won't get there but service rifle shooter Grant Scott shot a 1221-44X (1250 is perfect) at the national matches last year. That's not to shabby. Oh, they all shoot the same ammo, it's custom loaded but not for individual guns. A good AR is cheap and getting a good 308 is going to cost some money.

It's hard to shoot high master scores in Palma. Service rifle or no. Not impossible but these folks have glass more expensive than op's budget just for reading mirage.

707, I wasn't trying to challenge you I'm actually interested in what matches those are. Are they informal or do the fall under NRA rules? I'd like to find some in LA.

ubet
03-18-2012, 9:16 AM
Savage uses good action, good barrels, the accutrigger is pure junk. I would suggest a used savage, the best scope you can afford, with good base and rings.

Another option, save your money. But buy a good bolt action 22lr mount good scope, acquire bipod and learn to shoot it out to 300yds. Learn to shoot that extremely well, save your money at the sametime, then buy a system you think you will like.

707electrician
03-18-2012, 9:30 AM
It's hard to shoot high master scores in Palma. Service rifle or no. Not impossible but these folks have glass more expensive than op's budget just for reading mirage.

707, I wasn't trying to challenge you I'm actually interested in what matches those are. Are they informal or do the fall under NRA rules? I'd like to find some in LA.

They are NRA mathes but they are open to anyone so they are somewhat informal. You could come shoot a scoped AR with a bipod in the RMC match and nobody will care, your score jut won't count for anything. We also shoot right along side world class shooters so if you have any questions or need help with anything there is a plethora of knowledge

Flouncer
03-18-2012, 9:31 AM
looking to get into this long range game... But not trying to empty the bank account. Is it true the glass is more important than the rifle? I'm completely novice and have been trying to search and have yet to find some good info. Thanks.

Everyone says this. I think it is a carry over from hunting. And it's just repeated without consideration for the task at hand. If you want to start recreational target shooting, at any range, it is absolutely not true. Heck, the people that spend $1.5 - $2.5k can't even agree on what power to use. Almost any inexpensive variable scope can give repeatable adjustments for windage and elevation. And are clear enough in broad daylight at a range setting. If you are target shooting, you will have known ranges, therefore, with known ballistics of your ammo and weapon, you can prepare and shoot with known settings. You can do this easily in a learning mode for $150 -$200 scope. Not compete. Learn.

CSACANNONEER
03-18-2012, 9:37 AM
Everyone says this. I think it is a carry over from hunting. And it's just repeated without consideration for the task at hand. If you want to start recreational target shooting, at any range, it is absolutely not true. Heck, the people that spend $1.5 - $2.5k can't even agree on what power to use. Almost any inexpensive variable scope can give repeatable adjustments for windage and elevation. And are clear enough in broad daylight at a range setting. If you are target shooting, you will have known ranges, therefore, with known ballistics of your ammo and weapon, you can prepare and shoot with known settings. You can do this easily in a learning mode for $150 -$200 scope. Not compete. Learn.

Definately NOT a carry over from hunting. I look through optics for a living. I have a couple high end scopes and a lot of lesser ones (I'll admit that I'm a cheap SOB). It is far easier to aim optic that you can see through clearly than ones you can't. I've never seen cheap optics that were half as clear as more expensive ones with better quality glass. A $100-$200 scope isn't going to give one the clarity they need to become proficent at long range.

RuggedJay
03-18-2012, 9:45 AM
About 1k for everything and then buy FGMM ammo at $1 per round.

kendog4570
03-18-2012, 9:52 AM
.... Not trying to be a match shooter.....


You will. ;)

You're headed that way!

Welcome to the game.

Pete1979
03-18-2012, 9:59 AM
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w486/jacktripper7/tmpphpNAbHBQ.jpg

Remington SPS Tactical, comes in 223 or 308 and you can pick up a used one for about $500. I bought this 308 new in 2010 when they had a factory rebate for about $650 out the door. This rifle will shoot sub 1/2 MOA groups on a good day but realistically it is a consistent 5/8 MOA gun using either FGMM or similar hand loads.

SPS Tac in 308 - $650
Add the fixed 10x bushnell - $225
Weaver 1 piece base - $25
Leupold PRW rings - $60
Harris Bi pod - $60
= $1020, dog not included...

707electrician
03-18-2012, 10:05 AM
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w486/jacktripper7/tmpphpNAbHBQ.jpg

Remington SPS Tactical, comes in 223 or 308 and you can pick up a used one for about $500. I bought this 308 new in 2010 when they had a factory rebate for about $650 out the door. This rifle will shoot sub 1/2 MOA groups on a good day but realistically it is a consistent 5/8 MOA gun using either FGMM or similar hand loads.

SPS Tac in 308 - $650
Add the fixed 10x bushnell - $225
Weaver 1 piece base - $25
Leupold PRW rings - $60
Harris Bi pod - $60
= $1020

That bushnell is a great scope, great clarity

rksimple
03-18-2012, 10:24 AM
Almost any inexpensive variable scope can give repeatable adjustments for windage and elevation.

This is perhaps one of the most uninformed and inaccurate statements I've read in a long time.

When it comes to precision rifles there is much to learn. Where do cold bores go? How does my barrel behave? What happens to my bullet at x distance as y changes? What effect does x have on y? There are tons of variables. With a cheap, unreliable scope, you're now adding another set of variables that will make it impossible to learn the effects of any of the other atmospheric or ballistic variables thrown in.

The scope is the weakest and most important part of a precision rifle system.

milotrain
03-18-2012, 11:46 AM
They are NRA mathes but they are open to anyone so they are somewhat informal. You could come shoot a scoped AR with a bipod in the RMC match and nobody will care, your score jut won't count for anything. We also shoot right along side world class shooters so if you have any questions or need help with anything there is a plethora of knowledge

If you guys shoot a match monthly with glass below 600yards then OP should not pass go, should not collect $200 but go straight to the store and get a Bushnell elite and whatever rifle he can afford in .308.

RyanOT, The fun of shooting this sort of thing is seeing yourself get better. Shooting with people who will help you and tell you what you are doing wrong is what makes that happen. It's one of the best feelings in the world to shoot, hit a plateau, and have someone say "oh you know, relax that right arm, let the rifle settle a bit" and have your scores jump 10 points. This is why you should shoot matches, because it's the best way to be near people who can give you great guidance. If as 707 says, there is a match that shoots glass to 600yards then get to it man!

Shooting for fun is cool but shooting with some way to track your progress and finding great people who will help you in the process is the best. Additionally it's worth getting glass you can grow with because someone shooting the match will always have a nicer rifle than yours that they are upgrading away from and will sell you for cheap!

RyanOT
03-18-2012, 11:51 AM
http://i1078.photobucket.com/albums/w486/jacktripper7/tmpphpNAbHBQ.jpg

Remington SPS Tactical, comes in 223 or 308 and you can pick up a used one for about $500. I bought this 308 new in 2010 when they had a factory rebate for about $650 out the door. This rifle will shoot sub 1/2 MOA groups on a good day but realistically it is a consistent 5/8 MOA gun using either FGMM or similar hand loads.

SPS Tac in 308 - $650
Add the fixed 10x bushnell - $225
Weaver 1 piece base - $25
Leupold PRW rings - $60
Harris Bi pod - $60
= $1020
This is pretty much what I was looking for...

BUT...

Not to start another thread, What would be the best 22LR to pick up to start? I see big 5 has a savage on sale this week. My Step brother works there and I get 10% off advertised prices...

Please keep the good info coming. I'm listening :cool:

RuggedJay
03-18-2012, 11:52 AM
Make sure the scope will atleast track well. There are cheap scopes that track well and expensive scopes that have defects and wont track right after a getting banged up alittle.

milotrain
03-18-2012, 12:43 PM
Savage makes a very nice .22lr, so does CZ in the 452 American. Fantastic guns to learn trigger control, and breathing. Also you can't beat shooting 500 rounds for $50. I spent a lot of time with a 452 before I got into the highpower game. Now I'm learning a lot about shooting offhand and I'm sort of kicking myself that I didn't start shooting something where people were there to help me sooner. In the first five matches I shot my scores went up almost 10%.

Trigger time trigger time trigger time, but don't forget to have someone who shoots well help you. These guys might not be too close to you but it looks like they have a serious smallbore and highpower group. I'd go and watch a match of both, tell them in advance and someone might even loan you a gun to shoot. See what you like about it, if anything, and talk to the old gurus there about what you want to shoot and learn about. Same with 707s group of shooters. Just show up and watch. Ask questions, figure out how they run a day of shooting, someone will let you shoot their rifle I'll bet. Then when you show up with a gun you won't feel pressured to meet everyone and find out what's going on AND shoot well.

http://www.scvrc.com/high_power.htm

Pete1979
03-18-2012, 12:44 PM
Make sure the scope will atleast track well. There are cheap scopes that track well and expensive scopes that have defects and wont track right after a getting banged up alittle.

+1, I have a Japanese 6-24x which is supposed to be one of the decent quality mid range scopes but it doesn't track well. I have had good luck with the bushnell 3200 and a friend of mine has had great luck with the SWFA 10x which is a little better scope for not much more money. I am just not ready to spend upwards of $1000 on optics on a $650 rifle. Down the road when I get a little better and its time to rebarrel the Remmy, I think a higher quality scope ie Night force will be in order.

milotrain
03-18-2012, 12:56 PM
I know some very good shooters who swear by the 3200. It's plenty of scope.