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View Full Version : new M-4 pattern rifle-ugh.


Bushmonkey92
03-17-2012, 1:31 PM
Just bought a brand new rifle from a new company, custom configured, am Happy with what I got, but it took almost 3 months to get. But a few issues.

First Is it normal for the Safety selector to stop at 45 degrees in (Safe mode) and 90 in (Fire)? It doesn't look like it has a aftermarket switch.

Second It has MOE handguards, when I tried to install some rails on it and reassemble it, it took 2 DAYS to put the f'kin thing back on! Who ever designed the Delta ring should be shot. and Those tools don't work. No one can design a tool to use on it that's more efficient? LIke a compression collar brace? I have a few ideas. I have so many scratchs, nicks, abrasions just putting the handguard on it's ridiculous.

no gonna name the company as I think it's a nice rifle, but hope my next one I build myself will be easier. :facepalm:

buggsb
03-17-2012, 1:39 PM
Perhaps you can post a picture of your safety? It is not "normal" to stop at 45 degrees though.

As for the MOE handguards typically they are not that difficult, especially with a tool. I suspect once you get the hang of it, it will be much easier....though I have seen some "off-brands" that are not as easy as some that meet mil-spec tolerances.

dascoyne
03-17-2012, 1:43 PM
This tool worked for me. Never scratched anything. Handguards come off with minimal effort.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/610165/ar-stoner-handguard-removal-tool-ar-15-steel?cm_vc=S016383769

tradecraft
03-17-2012, 1:46 PM
The only tools you need to reinstall MOE handguards are your left and right hands. You'll get the hang of it.

Merc1138
03-17-2012, 1:47 PM
2 days to put the handguards on with a tool? It's not always the easiest thing to do, but you're obviously doing something wrong. Put the stock on a table, pull down on the delta ring, slide the handguards in 1 at a time. With a tool it takes almost no effort. I also don't understand what you could possibly be scratching on the rifle or the handguards, since the only contact points for the handguards are under the delta ring and under the forearm cap. Without a tool the only things involved are your hands and the handguards, the plastic MOE handguards aren't going to scratch anything.

5aULvwJsJeo

If you didn't do it like that, you're doing it wrong. It takes the guy in the video a whole 30 seconds like it should. You can also clearly see that at no point is anything going to scratch anything else.

dascoyne
03-17-2012, 2:03 PM
no gonna name the company as I think it's a nice rifle, but hope my next one I build myself will be easier. :facepalm:No offense but, if you're having this much trouble with handguards you might not want to build an entire rifle without close supervision.

m16
03-17-2012, 2:07 PM
First Is it normal for the Safety selector to stop at 45 degrees in (Safe mode) and 90 in (Fire)? It doesn't look like it has a aftermarket switch.



Elaborate please.

Are you saying you only have 45 of throw in the selector lever?

If so, you have a custom selector.

If you have 90 of throw, and the selector "hangs" at 45, then you should probably pull off your grip and take a look at the selector.

Dhena81
03-17-2012, 2:11 PM
Just bought a brand new rifle from a new company, custom configured, am Happy with what I got, but it took almost 3 months to get. But a few issues.

First Is it normal for the Safety selector to stop at 45 degrees in (Safe mode) and 90 in (Fire)? It doesn't look like it has a aftermarket switch.

Second It has MOE handguards, when I tried to install some rails on it and reassemble it, it took 2 DAYS to put the f'kin thing back on! Who ever designed the Delta ring should be shot. and Those tools don't work. No one can design a tool to use on it that's more efficient? LIke a compression collar brace? I have a few ideas. I have so many scratchs, nicks, abrasions just putting the handguard on it's ridiculous.

no gonna name the company as I think it's a nice rifle, but hope my next one I build myself will be easier. :facepalm:

Is the firing pin hammer not cocked this would prevent you from using the safety selector as intended.

SpeedTribe
03-17-2012, 2:13 PM
I don't think building one yourself is a good idea if it took you two days to put handguards back on :p Just kidding. Building is easy as long as you take your time, watch some videos, and understand what needs to happen. You should post some pics of your new rifle, especially if it is from a new company and took 3months to get. Show that thing off! I doubt anyone is going to hold the handguard issue against them.

russ69
03-17-2012, 2:22 PM
Ditto. Watch some videos that show how to split the handguards by pressing the seam against the bench. I'll admit it takes some finger strength but it's more technique than anything.

therza2071
03-17-2012, 2:34 PM
The AR's safety can be moved ever so slightly even when the gun is not cocked, that's perfectly normal.

Bushmonkey92
03-19-2012, 12:56 PM
Buggsb- I would have but it's in storage now, The manufacturer says that it's normal. I have tried to push it too "Safe" but it's firm at 45 degrees. There seems not to be any safety issues with it so far.

Dascoyne- I tried the cheapo way of using a rubber coated wrench handles from harbor freight, Don't think the tool is the issue as it's the Extreme tightness and tolerances of the hand guards and the delta ring. My Next rifle think I'm going to buy the upper off the shelf with a free float rail, maybe a BCU or CMMG 300 BLK.

Scottschoe- pfft.Tried that. If they made it with 2mm more space then it would be easy. I had two days worth of cussing at plastic trying to get it on, then just banged it in.

Merc1138- yeah I watched all those vids. it's the magpul handguards and the tight tolerances of the rifle. The Plastic ridges in the handguard was getting in the way seating properly in the triangular gas block piece.

M16-The selector looks like a standard model, With hammer up it's 90 north on "Fire", hammer cocked I can move it 45 degrees left and it stops and "safe", the Trigger is firm and won't move.

Dhena81-yeah I know that.

Therza2071-Just commenting that My impressions that the safety should go 90 degrees left and be firmly on "SAFE" was my intention and understanding of how the weapon worked. nonetheless after getting use to the weapon seems like it does function as intended even with come cavets. I'm not complaining at the short throw at all, rather prefer it.

in addition, since it's in storage, do any of you remove the firing pin of the rifle to properly secure it? I put it in the storage compartment of my magpul STR stock till I need to use the rifle.

Merc1138
03-19-2012, 1:20 PM
No. In fact the firing pin is what keeps the cam pin from incorrectly rotating and making the bolt impossible to remove(meaning you just turned the upper into a paperweight that needs to be cut apart).

I also have the MOE handguards and it takes just as little effort to remove and install them as it does for the guy in that video, with and without a tool. If they're not going in place within seconds, you are doing it wrong.

Please re-assemble your rifle corrcetly(with the firing pin where it belongs), put it away, and go find some more videos and reading material so you can learn how your rifle is supposed to operate. I'm not intentionally trying to sound harsh, but you need to learn how this thing is supposed to work and how to maintain it.

russ69
03-19-2012, 1:33 PM
When cocked, the rifle should go on safe, not half way between safe and fire. This could be a dangerous situation and needs to be checked out. It sounds like the safety is catching on the trigger body.

17+1
03-19-2012, 2:22 PM
You might want to try cleaning up the edges of the handguards if they're that tight...I got the A2 furniture on my wifes AR duracoated pink, and had to lightly sand in a couple places that were interfering, which cannot be seen once assembled. They fit slightly tighter now, but I am able to remove them one at a time, on my own, with little trouble.

peter95
03-19-2012, 2:40 PM
in for pics also....

Drivedabizness
03-19-2012, 2:44 PM
In 4 years of putting on / taking off M16 hand guards I never used or felt the need to use any kind of a tool. So - I never bought one cuz I figured I wouldn't ever need it.

But then I got built my budget AR and found out the hard way that AR 15's must use a much stronger spring than a brand-new M16A2.

OP- if you don't want to use a "custom" tool use a pair of insulated channel locks. Use the insulated grips to move the top side of the ring back (when installing the MagPul MOE's). Make sure to slip the front edge into where it needs to go up front and then swing it down into the Delta ring. Then do the same for the bottom side of the Delta ring. No scratches and it moves the Delta ring easily.

I struggled too until I tried it this way.

Bushmonkey92
03-19-2012, 3:13 PM
russ69- Until I take apart the grip and remove the detent and selector I can't see that the selector groove is cut to the right axis points, or if any other thing is wrong. The manufacturer says it's normal until it wears in. I have tried several times to switch it to a Absolute "SAFE" but it's firmly stops at 45 degrees left and the trigger is held stiff.

17+1- I have whittled some plastic scrapes with my knife to clear some minor obstructions, but think it's just extremely tight on my rifle. A mm or 2 extra leeway in the plastic would have been nice.

Peter95- The rifle is in storage at the moment, but here are some picts of the day I finally put the handguards on.

http://s17.postimage.org/kflkb0o4f/image.png

http://s17.postimage.org/a830ym1wf/rifle1.png

Bushmonkey92
03-24-2012, 10:50 PM
solved, thanks everyone for the comments.

Droppin Deuces
03-24-2012, 10:59 PM
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this yet but if you stand over your rifle(cleared and safe, of course) with the stock on the floor, you can easily manipulate the delta ring using your body weight. I have yet to meet a delta ring that could defeat this method.

Bushmonkey92
03-24-2012, 11:10 PM
Yes tried that as well, but if the clearances are too tight anyone will have problems. I blame the forward part of handguard channel that interacts with the triangular handguard piece, it was too tight and tricky.