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View Full Version : All Calgunners, Please View and Comment, PLEASE


killemall419
03-16-2012, 2:30 PM
So, being a long(ish) time member here on calguns, I was down at my local shop, here in California, and I heard mention of them thinking about stocking slide fire stocks. Yes, yes, I know the general concensus here about them being not okay. However, I tried to convey this message to them, and they are fairly adamant about them being legal after talking to slide fire at a recent show. I have linked the youtube video they recently put out about slidefire. They are not selling them yet, they are still in review, but I wanted to post the video and get any and all advice and/or comments I can to further help convince them to not stock these.
Here's the video (not sure how to embed, so if someone could do that, it would be appreciated). Thanks for any of your comments and/or advice. Thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX_X3joSD1Q

atakacorp
03-16-2012, 2:39 PM
Do you know the range that allows rapid fire in Kali?

HK Dave
03-16-2012, 2:45 PM
I do, and it's besides the point, there are plenty of places to shoot that aren't "shooting ranges".

The slide fire stock is a cute idea, but i personally think it's just a gimmick and pretty stupid.

When bump firing, accuracy is completely gone so while it might be fun to burn ammo that way a few times, i imagine it'll get old quick, especially when you can't actually hit the wide side of a barn with it.

If one really needs to shoot a full auto that badly, I'd suggest either enlisting, or going to a shooting range in Vegas that rents full auto weapons.

tonyxcom
03-16-2012, 2:46 PM
I say leave the shop alone. I would like them to be the TEST CASE for the rest of the state.

IntoForever
03-16-2012, 2:56 PM
I say leave the shop alone. I would like them to be the TEST CASE for the rest of the state.

I fear they won't be the ones with their nuts on the block, it will be the poor shooter who thought it was ok.

Rob454
03-16-2012, 2:58 PM
IMO if you wanna burn ammo then it should be your right to do so without any interference form any government body. Personally i could care less if you have the capability/capacity of firing full auto. Way i figure it even with cheap ammo you are still burning $7.50 ( average) a mag dump of 30 rounds. If you literally got that kind of money to burn be my guest and GO TO TOWN. There is a reason even the military for the most part does not use full auto even when the gun is capable of full auto. But for a fun mag dump once in a while I really don't see what the big deal is.


IMO its a little like that Archangel stock. Yeah they sell it but its supposedly illegal because its a thumb/pistol grip. So I feel the customer is the one who is gonna get a azz rippin from the DOJ and FBI and whatever alphabet soup agency you feel like adding here....

killemall419
03-16-2012, 3:01 PM
I'm not really worried about the ammo aspect. More about legality. I don't want to see a California shop get in trouble for something they
think is legal. Any comments, insight on how to convince them it's illegal, or legal, either way?

alfred1222
03-16-2012, 3:02 PM
I fear they won't be the ones with their nuts on the block, it will be the poor shooter who thought it was ok.

I agree. while the authorities might take some action against the store, the guy who really gets nailed is them one shooting off 10 round bursts at the range...

Dont get me wrong, i think its cool, but people need to use some common sense.. California law wont let people drop a magazine normally. what makes people think that it would be ok to start shooting "full auto" with a bumpfire stock.

I'm not really worried about the ammo aspect. More about legality. I don't want to see a California shop get in trouble for something they
think is legal. Any comments, insight on how to convince them it's illegal, or legal, either way?

theyre business people, they are gunna do whatever they think will make them a profit. so good luck trying to convince them that they are wrong.

Fate
03-16-2012, 3:05 PM
Paging bweise...

tonyxcom
03-16-2012, 3:22 PM
I fear they won't be the ones with their nuts on the block, it will be the poor shooter who thought it was ok.

That's a pretty valid point.

russ69
03-16-2012, 3:26 PM
How about some rational thought. Is this something we really want to fight for? When we are doing our best to keep our bullet buttoned rifles do we want to poke a stick in the legislators eye and try to show them we are more clever than they are? Isn't this the same as the open carry guys? We know how that ended up and it didn't take very long.
Sorry but there is just no good ending for this. If you think the videos of machine guns on the news during the AWB was good, wait until this thing hits the news.

858casper858
03-16-2012, 3:33 PM
I'm not really worried about the ammo aspect. More about legality. I don't want to see a California shop get in trouble for something they
think is legal. Any comments, insight on how to convince them it's illegal, or legal, either way?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=7910438#post7910438

Read bweise's post... All the answers you need are there.

jdberger
03-16-2012, 3:34 PM
So, being a long(ish) time member here on calguns, I was down at my local shop, here in California, and I heard mention of them thinking about stocking slide fire stocks. Yes, yes, I know the general concensus here about them being not okay. However, I tried to convey this message to them, and they are fairly adamant about them being legal after talking to slide fire at a recent show. I have linked the youtube video they recently put out about slidefire. They are not selling them yet, they are still in review, but I wanted to post the video and get any and all advice and/or comments I can to further help convince them to not stock these.
Here's the video (not sure how to embed, so if someone could do that, it would be appreciated). Thanks for any of your comments and/or advice. Thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX_X3joSD1Q

Loss of their FFL
Loss of their inventory
Loss of their shop
Prison
...but at least they'll have the option of choosing jelly or syrup....

Slidefire stocks are illegal in California.

The Earth revolves around the Sun.

These things we know to be true. Denying them doesn't make them untrue.

ke6guj
03-16-2012, 3:38 PM
IMO its a little like that Archangel stock. Yeah they sell it but its supposedly illegal because its a thumb/pistol grip. So I feel the customer is the one who is gonna get a azz rippin from the DOJ and FBI and whatever alphabet soup agency you feel like adding here....
which archangel stock are you talking about? AFAIK, they only make stocks for rimfire guns, and a thumbhole/pistolgrip stock is not illegal for those rifles.

HK Dave
03-16-2012, 4:02 PM
I personally think we have more important fights to deal with then something like a gimmicky bump fire stock.

Things like letting us get rid of the stupid bullet button, to having normal 30 round capacity mags etc etc.

Yes, the bump fire stock looks like fun but I could care less about shooting a bunch of inaccurate lead downrange.

I want to have the ability to have an AR like the rest of the country... it is a BS law CA passed not allowing us to have what nearly every other state can legally have.

HK Dave
03-16-2012, 4:04 PM
Oh and it would be nice to be able to purchase a can. Problem with the stinkin idiot politicians is they think cans really are like the movies... where all you hear is a little whistle when a gun goes off.

Sorry, when a gun goes off with a can, it's still LOUD.

Idiot, senseless, mentally retarded anti gun mother Q#$%!$YA...

Sorry. Back to family mode. :P

jdberger
03-16-2012, 4:05 PM
Who's talking about advocating for the bump-fire stock?

Tony's "test case" comment is of the "I'm sure that lake is full of alligators - you think it isn't. You go first."

NorCalK9.com
03-16-2012, 4:40 PM
I truly hate thus state!
For those talking about burning ammo inaccurately, well when you buy my ammo you can complain.
Simple fact is this. Commifornia isnt going to budge on gun laws, the best thing ever is the loop holes cause in the end thats all it is a loop hole.
I still donate money for THE FIGHT but simple fact is unless voters get a little smarter this state is going to the sewers!

Bartin
03-16-2012, 4:47 PM
which archangel stock are you talking about? AFAIK, they only make stocks for rimfire guns, and a thumbhole/pistolgrip stock is not illegal for those rifles.

This one (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=382874) for the M1A

BigBamBoo
03-16-2012, 4:51 PM
Was in one of the larger local gu shops here in Redding and they have 3-4 of them in stock in there AR display case.

Eddie1965
03-16-2012, 4:51 PM
OP, PM the shop's name to one of the moderators here, maybe they can talk some sense into them before we lose another gun shop or worse, a gun noob gets busted.

killemall419
03-16-2012, 6:00 PM
Which mod would be the best to pm do you guys think? Any certain mod in particular?

Purple K
03-16-2012, 6:11 PM
What actually contacts the trigger, your finger or a piece of the Slidefire stock? If its your finger, how can it be considered a trigger activator? If so, I guess my right index finger has been violating the law for over forty years...

The Gleam
03-16-2012, 6:34 PM
...Way i figure it even with cheap ammo you are still burning $7.50 ( average) a mag dump of 30 rounds. If you literally got that kind of money to burn be my guest and GO TO TOWN.

I've spent more than that on a drink or side dish at Spago's Beverly Hills for lunch. But I would get more enjoyment out of a mag-dump. :)

I have and would argue the Slide-Fire stock is legal, even in CA, but will I get one? No. There have been too many previous threads here on Calguns with intelligent posts and good points, that made me look at it closer, have some doubt, and I'll rest without. People citing it's function and how it is utilized in attachment to the firearm to create rapid-fire got my attention to raise that doubt. I say it's legal - but I don't want to be the test subject either over something that's little more than having silly goofy fun.

I am sure my life will be OK without it. But if it ever is determined with definite legal or AG opinion that it's not an issue in CA, sure, I would get one.

The Gleam
03-16-2012, 6:35 PM
What actually contacts the trigger, your finger or a piece of the Slidefire stock? If its your finger, how can it be considered a trigger activator? If so, I guess my right index finger has been violating the law for over forty years...

That has always been my point too. But I don't want to be the test case over something like this. Call me chicken or a coward, I'm fine with that; I'll reserve my courage for a better purpose.

strongpoint
03-16-2012, 6:58 PM
What actually contacts the trigger, your finger or a piece of the Slidefire stock? If its your finger, how can it be considered a trigger activator?

imagine the law says (in simplified form) "any device that increases rate of fire will be called 'moon unit zappa' and is henceforth illegal." if you argued in court that "my slidefire stock is legal because it is clearly not frank zappa's eldest child," you would lose.

don't get caught up in what name the law gives such a device; pay attention to how the law defines it. the statute in question outlaws mechanical devices that increase ROF -- what such a device is labeled in the process is irrelevant. it might not seem to make sense, but laws and the way they are written follow an internal logic that doesn't exactly track common english.

i've seen some people argue that the law may not quite cover the mechanical process used by the slidefire stock, and there may be something to that ... regardless, i'm not going to test where the line is, and i think anyone who does so knowingly is foolish. but the naming argument is an absolute red herring.

jj805
03-16-2012, 7:29 PM
One of my friends called the ATF about the slide fire stock. He says that " they said it was perfectly legal, and that there were 24 gun stores currently selling them in CA. They also said that they were the ones who make the call on what is considered a trigger activator, and the slide fire dose not qualify". Personally, I don't know if I belive him, or the ATF. I don't want to be the test case, so I will wait until there is a more definitive answer to the question. Maybe a few other people could call the ATF and try to get their answer in writing. I do know that you can get the ATF approval letter for the slide fire, but I don't know if that letter has any relevance for CA.

Here is the link to the ATF letter. http://slidefire.co/BATFE.pdf

ke6guj
03-16-2012, 7:54 PM
This one (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=382874) for the M1A

my bad, I forgot about that one. I even checked archangel's site and didn't seen any centerfire stocks.

jebuwh
03-16-2012, 7:57 PM
yeah i brought this up a while ago about the slidefire and got totally shut down. then i went to the ontario gunshow... many of you know the shop Gunrunners im sure. they had a pile of them they were selling at the gunshow. what is the deal?

Grumpyoldretiredcop
03-16-2012, 8:20 PM
One of my friends called the ATF about the slide fire stock. He says that " they said it was perfectly legal, and that there were 24 gun stores currently selling them in CA. They also said that they were the ones who make the call on what is considered a trigger activator, and the slide fire dose not qualify". Personally, I don't know if I belive him, or the ATF. I don't want to be the test case, so I will wait until there is a more definitive answer to the question. Maybe a few other people could call the ATF and try to get their answer in writing. I do know that you can get the ATF approval letter for the slide fire, but I don't know if that letter has any relevance for CA.

Here is the link to the ATF letter. http://slidefire.co/BATFE.pdf

ATFE is concerned with Federal law. They don't care about CA law and a letter from ATFE carries no weight in regards to the CA code in question.

The CA DOJ is the agency we're concerned with here.

Databyter
03-16-2012, 8:35 PM
So, being a long(ish) time member here on calguns, I was down at my local shop, here in California, and I heard mention of them thinking about stocking slide fire stocks. Yes, yes, I know the general concensus here about them being not okay. However, I tried to convey this message to them, and they are fairly adamant about them being legal after talking to slide fire at a recent show. I have linked the youtube video they recently put out about slidefire. They are not selling them yet, they are still in review, but I wanted to post the video and get any and all advice and/or comments I can to further help convince them to not stock these.
Here's the video (not sure how to embed, so if someone could do that, it would be appreciated). Thanks for any of your comments and/or advice. Thank you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX_X3joSD1Q

This concept is just making your finger act as part of the automatic firing system.

It IS an automatic firing system if used properly.

As to whether it is a loophole, I could not say, but on my cursory examination I can tell you that in my opinion it is NOT.

Librarian
03-16-2012, 8:57 PM
ATFE is concerned with Federal law. They don't care about CA law and a letter from ATFE carries no weight in regards to the CA code in question.

The CA DOJ is the agency we're concerned with here.

Yep.

If the shop won't listen, we can't make them.

Multiburst trigger activators are forbidden by California law.
PC 16930 California Penal Code Section 16930

As used in this part, a "multiburst trigger activator" means
either of the following:
(a) A device designed or redesigned to be attached to a
semiautomatic firearm, which allows the firearm to discharge two or
more shots in a burst by activating the device.
(b) A manual or power-driven trigger activating device constructed
and designed so that when attached to a semiautomatic firearm it
increases the rate of fire of that firearm.

and California Penal Code Section 32900

Except as provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who
manufactures or causes to be manufactured,
imports into the state,
keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or
who gives, lends, or possesses
any multiburst trigger activator is punishable by
imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state
prison.

It can be charged as a felony.