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ChrisO
04-11-2007, 10:29 PM
well first off i would like to say hey to everyone.
Im going to build a AR and i live here in California i know what accessories and what not i cant have
i want to make a carbine with a a2 stock and a monster man grip i just have a few questions and it would be realllyy appreciated if you all could help me out.
How do i get a legal "put together already so i dont have to mess with the internals" ar Lower reciever and upper reciever? and i want to be able to mount a eotech or aimpoint on it do i need a "flat top" reciever?
also after i build this how do i register it legally?
and how much should i expect to spend to get a good carbine? stock with out accessories?
any reccomendations?
thank you for your time and like i said help would be greatley appreciated

ns3v3n
04-11-2007, 10:33 PM
the only thing you need to "register" is the lower receiver, that will go through your local dealer. as of with the monster man grip, just make sure you dont have any evil features on your upper, like flash hider, 6 position stock and what not.

this is my first build as well and i'm going the same configuration. with an A2 stock and monster grip. i'm in my process of waiting 10 days for my lower receiver. hope this helps.

ChrisO
04-11-2007, 10:35 PM
so can i actually order this lower reciever from a local gun shop? what recievers can i get that are CA ok that take detachable mags? if you dont mind me asking what reciever did you go with and how much did it run ya?
im thinking of maybe making mine 6.8 spc so i can take deer with it as well

ns3v3n
04-11-2007, 10:40 PM
well i got mine stag lower from chris at lanworldinc.com. good to work with, where are you from? i just had him shipped to my FFL in fremont, and started my paper work there. they do also have 6.8 lowers. the lower was $95 and dros was $68.5.

Josh3239
04-11-2007, 10:44 PM
If you can find a local shop that carries OLLs then feel free to buy from them. If you go to the top of the page there are some links to some dealers who you can buy the lowers from.

The lowers and only the lowers must be transferred to someone who holds an FFL such as a gun store. They will charge you a transfer fee and the DROS. You wait 10 days and go pick it up. During the 10 days they will register it and do a background check.

Using the search you can probably find which lowers are banned. Everything from 10% is CA legal.

To mount optics you can get a flat top. Your other option is to get the upper with a carrying handle and buy a carrying handle scope mount.

timmy8151
04-11-2007, 10:55 PM
Welcome to Calguns. I think I read your threads over on ARFCOM. As people have suggested please read Bwiese's AR/AK Faq. Also all your questions can be answered by searching the archives.

Good luck

626Tony
04-11-2007, 11:01 PM
browse ak/ar faq. consult with your local ar friendly ffl and they will give u all the insides

ChrisO
04-11-2007, 11:13 PM
well im from stockton. and yeah i got bashed at ar.com haha they told me about this site before and i couldnt find the info "well i was not looking that hard i guess" but i have found it now and the FAQ on ar/ak's is helping. so do these cost a arm and a leg to build up a stock ar carbine?

ChrisO
04-11-2007, 11:14 PM
oh and if i got a 6.8 lower would i need to buy another lower to be able to shoot 223? i want the 6.8 for deer but 223 would be nice for plinking being that it is cheaper.

Prc329
04-11-2007, 11:20 PM
No, a lower is a lower. you can put any upper on any lower. Stag makes the 6.8 lowers because they make a full 6.8 rifle.

ChrisO
04-11-2007, 11:26 PM
so there really is no point in buying a 6.8 lower? could somebody paste the ar/ak faq on here because my computers being weird and it wont open it.

ns3v3n
04-12-2007, 12:11 AM
i guess start with a 223 lower, cheaper and it will teach you how all the things work before you move onto meaner and bigger things. :) welcome to calguns!

oaklander
04-12-2007, 12:14 AM
This link should work:

http://calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

I built my first OLL in May of last year. It's a Stag-15 lower on a Model 1 Sales (M1S) upper and LPK (lower parts kit). Some people don't like M1S, but I haven't had any problems, YMMV.

As you probably know, you have two main routes to go:

1. Fixed mag - then you can have all the evil features you want, your rifle just has to have an overall length of at least 30 inches, and you can't have a grenade launcher. Some people use what is called a Prince 50 mag lock - other people use a "Bullet Button" which allows for an *attachable* magazine that requires a tool to remove. Magazines in fixed mag rifles can only hold 10 rounds, or it's an assault weapon.

2. Detachable mag - you can't have any evil features (like a pistol grip, collapsible stock, and/or flash hider). No grenade launcher and the rifle must be 30 inches or longer. What these people do is to put a thread protector or muzzle brake on their barrel, they put on a regular non-collapsing and non-folding stock, and finish it off with a Monster Man grip. These so-called "featureless" rifles can use your legal pre-ban 20 or 30 round magazines.

Either way, the easiest route is to buy a receiver - (this requires the DROS 10 day wait) - and then get a parts kit. The parts kit contains everything else you need to make the rifle - but since it's not a gun, you don't need to go through any red tape to get it.

ChrisO
04-12-2007, 12:20 AM
so when i get my reciever i have to put it together my self? i cant just buy it assembeld? im going to go with a monster man grip. so these bullet button mags can you have multiple 10 round mags and when your out of ammo detatch the mag and put a new 10 round in? or as soon as the mag leaves the gun its considered a assault rifle?

oaklander
04-12-2007, 12:21 AM
Also - the best way to build an AR is to build an AR. No need to get a preassembled lower. They are really easy to put together, AR15.com has very good instructions - and all that is required are basic hand tools.

Once you start on the OLL bandwagon, you will find yourself wanted to do even more complex builds. For example, my second OLL (OLU - "off-list upper" actually) was a FAL rifle.

FALs shoot 7.62 ammo, and were used in a lot of countries other than the U.S.

FAL builds are more complicated than AR builds because you have to time and headspace the barrel.

My current build is a Cali-legal featureless AK-47 - actually AKM or "AIM." This one's going to be even harder, but probably even more fun to do!

I can't emphasize enough how rewarding it is to build your own rifle. Out of all my guns, I have the most fun with the two that I built, and it's always a pleasure to tell people at the range that "I built this."

oaklander
04-12-2007, 12:23 AM
so when i get my reciever i have to put it together my self? i cant just buy it assembeld? im going to go with a monster man grip. so these bullet button mags can you have multiple 10 round mags and when your out of ammo detatch the mag and put a new 10 round in? or as soon as the mag leaves the gun its considered a assault rifle?

Yes, you have to put it together yourself. It's easy. You can buy assembled, but you are going to pay a premium, plus it's good to put it together so you can know how it works.

If you go with a Monster Man grip, you don't need a bullet button - you just use the regular mag release - BUT - you must not have *any* evil features.

ns3v3n
04-12-2007, 12:24 AM
yeah i cant wait to get my lower , going to stop everything that day and go to ar15.com and try to put that thing together, and a week before that i'll be painting the furnitures, cant decide what color, but od green is the new black so we'll see. :)

ChrisO
04-12-2007, 12:27 AM
so anyone have a list and some links of some places i can get off list lowers and uppers for? and how do i get the parts for the lowers?
does anyone have a estimate on how much it owuld cost to get nice quallity reliable Veryy basic carbine together?
probally a 16 barrel
needs to be accurate
a a2 stock
and a monster man grip.

oaklander
04-12-2007, 12:30 AM
Go to Ar15.com and print out the instructions now so you can get familiar with them.

It will also give you a chance to acquire the tools you need. I did everything with a screwdriver, a punch and a hammer. But there's other tools that make things easier and minimize your risk of damaging or losing parts.

Also - read that FAQ that Bill Weise wrote.

It will help you understand the legal issues relating to your build - please remember that you are responsible for knowing all laws relating to your firearm, and that it's really easy to put on the wrong part (such as a flash hider on a "featureless build") and end up with an assault weapon.

Good luck on your build and don't be afraid to ask questions - also note that a lot of stuff has been covered here previously - so the search function is very useful too.

ChrisO
04-12-2007, 12:31 AM
also what do you guys use to paint your furnitures? krylon montana? spraypaint or do you do somthing fancy?

ns3v3n
04-12-2007, 12:44 AM
i heard aluma hyde II is good. i plan to get that, a fellow calgunner is going to give me some so i'm very grateful for that. but if you buy them they are 11 bucks / can.

ChrisO
04-12-2007, 12:56 AM
so the what kind of accuracy can i expect to get with a regular build on a 16 barrel carbine? im new to carbines is 3 inches to much to ask for 100 yards? 3-5?

ns3v3n
04-12-2007, 1:13 AM
dont mean to hi jack the thread, the stag 1h is 16" barrel right? so i can remove the flash hider?

Jicko
04-12-2007, 2:23 AM
ns3v3n: first of all.... man.... you DO NOT "register" ANYTHING!! The process you mentioned is called DROS, merely a background check.... that you are allow to own a gun.... the serial number is recorded, but only on the original paper work that the particular FFL kept in his safe.... there isn't a central registry of that.... so, please do not refer it as "register".... since when we talked about "registration", we generally refers that to the 2000 AW registration.

ChrisO: accuracy of AR is very good.... 3" @ 100yds? That's WAY bad.... with good ammo, you can expect sub-MOA @ 100yds (that is 1" or less).... even with XM stuff (XM193/XM855), 1-1.5 MOA should be achieveable.... http://www.ammo-oracle.com got more info

ns3v3n: RE stag upper, YES, flash hider is removable; the ONLY stag upper that has non-removable flash hider is their Stag *special edition* 14.5" 1x7 barrel uppers; I don't think you are onto the OLL scene yet, when that upper was SOLD OUT.....

ChrisO: btw, try using the SEARCH function.... your questions were asked a couple days ago, and they were answered with all the reasoning why you should just go order parts and put it together rather than trying to get a completed rifle.....

E Pluribus Unum
04-12-2007, 7:35 AM
No, a lower is a lower. you can put any upper on any lower.

Be careful here... we don't want the kid buying a "Big Hole" Colt upper and trying to match that to his OLL....

Prc329
04-12-2007, 7:42 AM
Be careful here... we don't want the kid buying a "Big Hole" Colt upper and trying to match that to his OLL....

:D you are correct, I completely forgot about that. I have seen adapters though.

E Pluribus Unum
04-12-2007, 7:51 AM
:D you are correct, I completely forgot about that. I have seen adapters though.

Yeah... for the most part you were correct... but I was at a gun store when an angry customer came in because he had bought a Colt upper to go with his OLL at home and was angry that it would not fit. Gun store said "All sales final" and the guy was stuck with it.... very irate... :)

There is no adapter bud.... think about it.....

If you have a BIG HOLE upper and try to adapt it to a smaller hole, thats called a mill, and a tap.... :)

Now there may be an adapter to make a regular upper fit in a "Big hole" lower...... that I would believe....

I would hate for this kid to buy a "Big Hole" upper on gunbroker because we made the blanket statement "All is compatible" and have him get stuck with it.

MOST uppers are compatible with MOST lowers... inquire within before purchasing... :)

ChrisO
04-12-2007, 11:53 AM
well yeah i did not mean to refer to the 2000 aw weapon registration. i just was wondering how i would have legal documents of the gun because it is illegal to have a not registered gun correct? and as for ffl i can have my local gunshop recieve the reciever right thats a ffl correct?

Jicko
04-12-2007, 11:57 AM
well yeah i did not mean to refer to the 2000 aw weapon registration. i just was wondering how i would have legal documents of the gun because it is illegal to have a not registered gun correct? and as for ffl i can have my local gunshop recieve the reciever right thats a ffl correct?

*sigh*

There is not registration for "long guns"....

To take possession of one, you do have to go thru DROS, ie. thru a FFL....

Not all gunshops/FFLs are willing to handle OLL... so contact one of the vendors above mentioned... and start from there...

E Pluribus Unum
04-12-2007, 11:57 AM
well yeah i did not mean to refer to the 2000 aw weapon registration. i just was wondering how i would have legal documents of the gun because it is illegal to have a not registered gun correct? and as for ffl i can have my local gunshop recieve the reciever right thats a ffl correct?

Nothing says you have to register your guns. If you buy a new handgun it is automatically registered... but with rifles and shotguns the DOJ destroys all records after 30 days....

Yes, your local FFL can receive guns purchased by you. Before you buy something check with your local FFL to see how much he would charge you for this. Many times its just cheaper to buy it through your local FFL (They do that on purpose)

ChrisO
04-12-2007, 12:01 PM
wow. so there really is no proof of ownership of a rifle then? i was just wondering because i heard if you are hunting or camping/shooting and a ranger runs into you they run the serial numbers on your gun and if they cant find it they can take your gun

Josh3239
04-12-2007, 12:05 PM
I suppose you can keep a copy of the dealer records or whatever that paper is called that you get after you buy a gun.

Like everyone else said, there is no registration. The government does not keep the serial numbers on file. This may have been a practice during the federal AW ban but not CA's.

Technical Ted
04-12-2007, 12:06 PM
wow. so there really is no proof of ownership of a rifle then? i was just wondering because i heard if you are hunting or camping/shooting and a ranger runs into you they run the serial numbers on your gun and if they cant find it they can take your gun
LOL that's a load of bat guano.

The only proof of ownership for a long rifle or shotgun you possibly might have is the sales receipt.

Technical Ted
04-12-2007, 12:07 PM
This may have been a practice during the federal AW ban but not CA's.
Not even then.

ChrisO
04-12-2007, 12:14 PM
well thats cleared thanks alot. anybody know of a FFL willing to do all the stuff mentioned above for a AR lower in stockton?

Prc329
04-12-2007, 12:16 PM
How far is stockton from taft?

ChrisO
04-12-2007, 12:29 PM
i have never even heard of taft haha im about 30 minutes from modesto or lodi in eitehr direction.

Surveyor
04-12-2007, 12:42 PM
i have never even heard of taft haha im about 30 minutes from modesto or lodi in eitehr direction.



PM sent.

Josh3239
04-12-2007, 1:11 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp

Josh3239
04-12-2007, 1:12 PM
Not even then.

It was a guess, I wasn't old enough to own any guns during the federal AW ban. :p