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Tarn_Helm
03-11-2012, 11:21 AM
I wonder if, under the current administration's interpretation of the law (as evidenced both by policy & examples of enforcement thereof) and under various agency/bureau advisories, it is illegal to discuss online or in public generally the following depiction of American history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)), and the issues related to it.

Would we be put under surveillance?
Could that be done legally?

I know that the government has the physical might--but what about the legitimate legal authority?

U5ut6yPrObw

Sorry if this is a dupe.

cmichini
03-11-2012, 12:04 PM
"Would we put under surveillance?
Could that be done legally?"

Unfortunately, in our current version of the USA, the answers are "Yes" and "Why would legality inhibit our government from acting as it likes?"

The government tyranny that the founding fathers feared, and tried to prevent with incorporating the 2nd amendment, is alive, well and growing in this once great nation.

Maybe my tin foil is too tight, but I see the gov't. serving the people as a thing of the past.

Databyter
03-11-2012, 12:32 PM
I like it.

Left Coast Conservative
03-11-2012, 12:52 PM
One can get more information about this incident here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)#Aftermath).

Even though I believe that these men acted in accordance to the political philosophy of our Republic:


That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence#Text)


I find it remarkable in the extreme that they were not even prosecuted for their actions. I find it more likely that the local SWAT team would have been called out, and a pitched battle commenced, and all involved prosecuted for as many violent felonies as the state could conceive.

The restraint shown by all parties in this event is also remarkable, and demonstrates once again these men deserve to be known as The Greatest Generation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greatest_Generation).

meaty-btz
03-11-2012, 1:22 PM
One can get more information about this incident here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)#Aftermath).

Even though I believe that these men acted in accordance to the political philosophy of our Republic:



I find it remarkable in the extreme that they were not even prosecuted for their actions. I find it more likely that the local SWAT team would have been called out, and a pitched battle commenced, and all involved prosecuted for as many violent felonies as the state could conceive.

The restraint shown by all parties in this event is also remarkable, and demonstrates once again these men deserve to be known as The Greatest Generation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greatest_Generation).
Times were different then, for one no SWAT TEAM or TACTICAL TEAM, and two the country was generally not so cranial rectally inserted.

Tarn_Helm
03-11-2012, 2:21 PM
Times were different then, for one no SWAT TEAM or TACTICAL TEAM, and two the country was generally not so cranial rectally inserted.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p13/AimSmllMssSmll/TOSHAKETHEIRGUNSINTHETYRANTSFACE.jpg
You're right.

And your concerns are echoed and put into historical context in the book, "To Shake Their Guns in the Tyrant's Face," history professor Robert Churchill (http://www.amazon.com/Shake-Their-Guns-Tyrants-Face/dp/0472034650/ref=tmm_pap_title_0).

One of the giants of present-day Second Amendment scholarship, David Hardy (creator of "In Search of the Second Amendment"), notes, "I've had time to read it, and it is excellent! He has no agenda, is simply out to write accurate history. Got into private archives, interviewed people, obtained government records. I can't sum up 300+ pages in a blog post, but a few high points are . . ." (http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/2009/05/to_shake_their.php)

And then he comments on the book.

Get it and read it if you have not already done so.

The ever-increasing militarization of civilian law enforcement (http://www.cato.org/publications/white-paper/overkill-rise-paramilitary-police-raids-america) should be of great concern to anyone who takes seriously the role of the unorganized militia as the ultimate protection against such time as "when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Blackstone)," as Blackstone put it.

Lastly, a prophetic warning by Joseph Story in Commentaries on the Constitution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution #Early_commentary):

The importance of this article [i.e., the 2nd amendment] will scarcely be doubted by any persons, who have duly reflected upon the subject. The militia is the natural defence of a free country against sudden foreign invasions, domestic insurrections, and domestic usurpations of power by rulers. It is against sound policy for a free people to keep up large military establishments and standing armies in time of peace, both from the enormous expenses, with which they are attended, and the facile means, which they afford to ambitious and unprincipled rulers, to subvert the government, or trample upon the rights of the people. The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them. And yet, though this truth would seem so clear, and the importance of a well regulated militia would seem so undeniable, it cannot be disguised, that among the American people there is a growing indifference to any system of militia discipline, and a strong disposition, from a sense of its burthens, to be rid of all regulations. How it is practicable to keep the people duly armed without some organization, it is difficult to see. There is certainly no small danger, that indifference may lead to disgust, and disgust to contempt; and thus gradually undermine all the protection intended by this clause of our national bill of rights.

Let's hope we learn from history instead of repeating it.

. . . :facepalm:

Left Coast Conservative
03-11-2012, 2:23 PM
Times were different then, for one no SWAT TEAM or TACTICAL TEAM, and two the country was generally not so cranial rectally inserted.

Indeed it was. My father is of a similar age, and he has a few stories about how the citizens of upstate New York wouldn't have put up with any BS like this from their elected official. He now lives in eastern Oklahoma, and they have similar attitudes to those shown in the film. Some places are still a majority of stand-up citizens.

bob7122
03-11-2012, 2:35 PM
wow i need to read more about our history. thanks for posting.

dieselpower
03-11-2012, 2:43 PM
Its too bad all the new laws and EOs passed by Congress and the last 4 Presidents voids all this....

You can not LEGALLY assault a LEA for Constitutional Rights violations... EVER. Thats why we have a court system. If this were to happen today, every man who held a gun or participated in the assault would go to jail. Violence is never justified when used against authority.... at least nowadays.

The reason this didn't see the inside of a court has more to do with what would have been testified in the courtroom...and why certain people would NOT want that to happen. Nowadays that testimony would be barred and the actions of the civilians would be based on the FEAR of improper actions of the authority.... and I am sorry to say, just because you fear a CLEO is up to no good, doesn't give you the right to form an armed mob and attack him, his deputies and their station.

Its called "progress".

Bhobbs
03-11-2012, 3:09 PM
Its too bad all the new laws and EOs passed by Congress and the last 4 Presidents voids all this....

You can not LEGALLY assault a LEA for Constitutional Rights violations... EVER. Thats why we have a court system. If this were to happen today, every man who held a gun or participated in the assault would go to jail. Violence is never justified when used against authority.... at least nowadays.

The reason this didn't see the inside of a court has more to do with what would have been testified in the courtroom...and why certain people would NOT want that to happen. Nowadays that testimony would be barred and the actions of the civilians would be based on the FEAR of improper actions of the authority.... and I am sorry to say, just because you fear a CLEO is up to no good, doesn't give you the right to form an armed mob and attack him, his deputies and their station.

Its called "progress".

That's because the government's job is now to protect itself and its power. They don't care about us civilians.

wayneinFL
03-11-2012, 3:17 PM
You can not LEGALLY assault a LEA for Constitutional Rights violations... EVER. Thats why we have a court system. If this were to happen today, every man who held a gun or participated in the assault would go to jail. Violence is never justified when used against authority.... at least nowadays.

The heck of it is that the participants in the rebellion had reached out to the federal and state government for several years seeking a legal remedy. Ignoring the law and physically overthrowing the McGinn County government and taking the ballot boxes was a last resort, as it should be.

I agree that this would have gotten ugly in our time. Today we have television and SWAT teams. An all out war would have ensued and a lot of blood would have been shed. I don't know how the courts would react today. Randy Weaver walked on everything except failure to appear in court.

Danhood
03-11-2012, 3:24 PM
Cool story I had never heard of this event before. Thanks for posting this.

rivraton
03-11-2012, 4:04 PM
"Would we put under surveillance?
Could that be done legally?"

Unfortunately, in our current version of the USA, the answers are "Yes" and "Why would legality inhibit our government from acting as it likes?"

The government tyranny that the founding fathers feared, and tried to prevent with incorporating the 2nd amendment, is alive, well and growing in this once great nation.

Maybe my tin foil is too tight, but I see the gov't. serving the people as a thing of the past.
The government is now feeding on the people...

meaty-btz
03-11-2012, 5:25 PM
The heck of it is that the participants in the rebellion had reached out to the federal and state government for several years seeking a legal remedy. Ignoring the law and physically overthrowing the McGinn County government and taking the ballot boxes was a last resort, as it should be.

I agree that this would have gotten ugly in our time. Today we have television and SWAT teams. An all out war would have ensued and a lot of blood would have been shed. I don't know how the courts would react today. Randy Weaver walked on everything except failure to appear in court.
I always felt the FTA they got Randy for was an intentional FU to Randy.. aka we can't get you on anything else so we will hit you with this chicken-crap because it is all we can hit you with. Never mind we killed your wife and child.. we are the government and you will be punished whenever we can punish you just because all must be punished.

Same thing when I won my traffic ticket victory.. won on everything but still got slapped with a $20 fix-it fee. :rolleyes:

Only thing they could make stick and they stuck it. *sigh* But $20 was better than about $1200 (all said + traffic school).

bhartin
03-11-2012, 5:48 PM
The Battle of Athens is something I had never heard of until a few years ago--it sure as heck was never covered in school. I try to spread word about it at every opportunity.

The real driving force behind those events that resulted in such drastic measures were the WW2 veterans. Without their experiences of the previous years of duty I doubt the people would have ever truly risen as they did.

During the Occupy protests it seems like vets were the ones who kept ending up in ICUs. That was enough to make me think that one of the Occupy cities could very well see a modern-day Battle of Athens. Obviously that never panned out, though.

FastFinger
03-11-2012, 11:14 PM
Personally I wouldn't sully the actions and memory of the "Battle of Athens" heroes by comparing them with the Occupy nitwits.

bhartin
03-12-2012, 9:05 AM
Personally I wouldn't sully the actions and memory of the "Battle of Athens" heroes by comparing them with the Occupy nitwits.

I agree with that sentiment completely. I was looking more at some possible results rather than what drove the events.

Wherryj
03-12-2012, 11:15 AM
Times were different then, for one no SWAT TEAM or TACTICAL TEAM, and two the country was generally not so cranial rectally inserted.

True, but I wouldn't want to be a SWAT member facing GIs who had just returned from facing fire in WWII.

The War Wagon
03-12-2012, 12:03 PM
Cool story I had never heard of this event before. Thanks for posting this.

My sister & her family recently moved to Polk Co., TN. I intend to go see her this summer, and go see this historical site. Polk Co. borders McMinn Co. I'll post pics when I get back. :thumbsup:

winxp_man
03-12-2012, 12:43 PM
They NEED TO PUT THIS IN THE HISTORY BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! of schools all around the nation. This nation is now going towards being a nation of communist government. Its how the commies did it and how this government will do it.

They take out all of this history and forge a new one with lies that firearms are bad and that we do not need to defend ourselves........ BULLCRAP! My father tells me his life story about the Romanian commie government and it sound like hell and no words to describe it. Its a scary world out there when the government wants to enslave people and doing it by brain washing them into thinking that LEO's are plenty for someones defense.

JOEKILLA
03-12-2012, 2:11 PM
I have to buy this movie :D

SilverTauron
03-12-2012, 2:55 PM
The government being the government, they can disregard their own laws as the situation warrants. See the events in Waco for further detail on how that can happen in modern times.

Had the events in Athens been duplicated today we the people would never know it. The government owns the mainstream media lock stock and barrel, so it is doubtful any honest details about such a thing would ever make the airwaves.Such an event would be buried like Fast and Furious is now. If it did see the airwaves the account would be slanted in favor of the government.

Example of how the story would read today , " A small group of psychologically disturbed veterans besieged a jail earlier this morning. Local law enforcement took into safekeeping the ballot boxes for their local elections, when several ex military members formed a terrorist mob and attacked the station without provocation. A spokesperson for the state governor denied rumors that the ballots were seized illegally by the police."

Cue a talking head discussing the dangers post deployment veterans pose to themselves and society, and cut.

There can be no revolution, if there is no information. With the media in the government's pocket the Feds can do everything short of detonating a nuclear bomb and no one would know the truth.

Jason P
03-12-2012, 3:15 PM
There can be no revolution, if there is no information. With the media in the government's pocket the Feds can do everything short of detonating a nuclear bomb and no one would know the truth.

The alternative is a large and organized enough revolt so as to be impossible to ignore. Period.

POLICESTATE
03-13-2012, 4:34 PM
The alternative is a large and organized enough revolt so as to be impossible to ignore. Period.

I remember the Confederate States of America tried this and it didn't end well for them.

The Battle of Athens folks were just in the right place at the right time. If they tried this today most of them would be dead or wounded and all survivors would be locked up pretty much forever.

Oh and those corrupt politicians would still be doing their thing too.

winxp_man
03-13-2012, 7:41 PM
I remember the Confederate States of America tried this and it didn't end well for them.

The Battle of Athens folks were just in the right place at the right time. If they tried this today most of them would be dead or wounded and all survivors would be locked up pretty much forever.

Oh and those corrupt politicians would still be doing their thing too.

Well this was not people vs government it was the south government vs north government. It would sound similar but in our case here in this day in age would be more of a revolution like the colonial men vs the monarchy of England.

dunndeal
03-15-2012, 8:33 PM
I had never heard of it until 20 minutes after your post,,, which of course I didn't see. I've deleted the content of my post but the title is still there.

Does anyone besides me see a connectuion between this and DHS and many large city PDs purchasing armored vehicles?

dunndeal
03-15-2012, 8:34 PM
I had never heard of it until 20 minutes after your post,,, which of course I didn't see. I've deleted the content of my post but the title is still there.

Does anyone besides me see a connection between this, DHS and many large city PDs purchasing armored vehicles?

BoxesOfLiberty
03-15-2012, 9:53 PM
... American history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946))...
U5ut6yPrObw


This is a wonderful piece of our history.

I first came across it in the book Unintended Consequences by John Ross (a worthy read if you can find a copy.

Thanks for posting the reminder. I'd never seen the video before.

Rumline
03-16-2012, 1:44 PM
Had the events in Athens been duplicated today we the people would never know it. The people that own the government also own the mainstream media lock stock and barrel, so it is doubtful any honest details about such a thing would ever make the airwaves.
Fixed it for you! ;)

MasterYong
03-16-2012, 4:34 PM
If I ever have a child, I'm going to make sure they do a history report on this.

I had never heard of this event, and am really quite shocked as I had a very pro-2A and pro-constitution 7th grade history teacher. Seems like he would have been all over this. Maybe he got in trouble for teaching it before I ever attended that school...

HBrebel
03-16-2012, 4:54 PM
this is what the 2A is all about. These 'laws' they impose on our 2A rights are illegal and only serve to protect them from us.

HBrebel
03-16-2012, 5:03 PM
Times were different then, for one no SWAT TEAM or TACTICAL TEAM, and two the country was generally not so cranial rectally inserted.

And three, the men back then had what is called balls. Balls secrete testosterone. Testosterone makes men behave like men not like maidens.
Thanks to all the crap in our food and water, all the junk on TV, and all the voices telling men to be more sensitive and less like savages, most have become docile little serfs, never questioning anything that is done to them. Just like in our war for independence. 3%
WATCH THIS VIDEO.....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gyaY8BAi3U&context=C464f342ADvjVQa1PpcFOoAPJFxuUfSwumYzQ-R8d6JnbtlZHfCE0=

Springfield45
03-17-2012, 4:18 PM
I have never heard of this before. Thank you for posting and Calguns for disseminating this important history.

Tarn_Helm
03-17-2012, 9:27 PM
I have never heard of this before. Thank you for posting and Calguns for disseminating this important history.

You are very welcome.

Everyone should note that I credit my awareness of the Battle of Athens, TN, 1946, to the person who brought it to my attention: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=8199115&postcount=6

David T. Hardy, legal scholar, historian, & independent filmmaker.

Everyone here should look him up.

And study his Second Amendment dvd.
:cool:

darkwater
03-18-2012, 5:39 PM
This line in the Wikipedia article really says it all about the character of the GI-led group: "The rifles borrowed from the armory were cleaned and returned before sunup."

resonance
03-19-2012, 12:02 AM
Kind of makes me wonder, just how many Vets are in calif....?

resident-shooter
03-19-2012, 12:32 AM
We are too civilized to shoot police these days. If they shoot and kill u because they wanted to, then it was only due to high stress.

Uxi
03-19-2012, 10:10 AM
I have never heard of this before. Thank you for posting and Calguns for disseminating this important history.

Likewise!

Kind of makes me wonder, just how many Vets are in calif....?

Indeed.