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View Full Version : Befriending Law Enforcement?


devjunk762
04-10-2007, 4:41 PM
So, since 2005, I've spent alot of time reading the threads on this board - especially since the advent of the OLL, in which a few, brave (and maybe, well funded) members went forth to pave the way for all of us to get OLLs. I'm extremely grateful for the legal advice, analysis, pundits, and general opinions regarding the OLL situation, which convinced me to invest in a few OLL myself. So, life is good, and "thank you" Ben Cannon and Bill Weise.

However, now that it's 2007, I'm still amazed at the paranoia regarding the possession and use of OLL at ranges, at BLM land, etc. The major concern that most people have is that the deputies of law enforcement are going to seize their rifles and that the DA is going to press charges. While things have quieted down somewhat, and more people are comfortable with shooting OLLs at ranges, the "tin foil hat" crowd still worries about LE (Law Enforcement, a.k.a. the cops) busting them at a range for (legally) shooting an OLL. O.k., so now it's a "misdemeanor", but should it really be?

So, I'm wondering if the best course of action would be to get your local LE involved in shooting OLL as well. Given the "six degrees of separation" we all share, I'm sure that some Calgun members know some "cops" as friends, aquintances, whatever in their geographical region. So, my question is, would it be a good thing to have more "cops that are my buds" involved in the OLL thing so that they can spread the word amongst their comrades that "all is good"? If we get COPS involved in owning, using, and loving OLLs (without a 'mommy note' from their chief) then I think that we've finally won the battle.

Ideally, it would be good for Calgunners to post, "Yeah, I shoot in location XYZ and the cops seem 'cool with it'". It's a start in the right direction, IMHO. At the end of the day, if LEs are cool with people LEGALLY utilizing OLL at ranges, BLM land, etc., than I think we (collectively) don't have a problem. If LE isn't going to bust you/ cite you/ ruin your day for owning an OLL, then who cares what your local DA thinks. They have better things to worry about, like "gang violence" (close to where I live), pedophiles (hopefully, not close to where I live), and insurance scams (everywhere). :)

In any case, I apologize if I missed a similar thread on the topic. But, please, enlighten me- I realize that, because I check this board infrequently, I may have missed something. And, yeah, "search is your friend"... :)

Anyways, please "slam" me opinion on this one. I'm anxious to learn...

Respectfully Yours,

Agent MerryLees,
(just kidding) :)

(And, for the record, I live in the Santa Cruz County area and have NO IDEA whether LE would ruin my day... I still continue to shoot my OLL, though.)

The Soup Nazi
04-10-2007, 5:13 PM
Already ahead of you on that note.

luvtolean
04-10-2007, 5:16 PM
The only "cop" I know is CHP, and he has bought lowers, shot mine on several occasions, informed several at his station, and calls me when he has a question as to what is going on....and to talk about the SPRs we're going to build one of these days. :)

devjunk762
04-10-2007, 5:30 PM
So, maybe the best case scenario here would be for me to figure out a way to post a county-by-county map of California. We could then "color code" the map , by county, to indicate where we have friendly LE people.

Is this too weird?

I really think that the way we're going to win with LE agencies is by presenting a case of OLL's ARE legal. I'm willing to go "to bat" with the Santa Cruz County LE... Hell, I'll send the Chief a MOU (Memorandum of Understanding) to the Santa Cruz Chief of Police, if that's what it takes, to clear up any "issues" in the county.

I figure that if we cower in our "warrens" and don't "put up or shut up" when it comes to LE, then what's the point of owning these things. Yeah, while I plan for the SHTF scenario, I am not a shooter solely for this reason... I like to enjoy my guns, legally, as a firearms enthusiast.

At the end of the day, though (c.a. two years from now) I won't be in California anyways. I just want to leave this place in a better state than when I arrived, and the firearms enthusiast "rolled over" with the CA ban.

Enough said,

devjunk762

tgriffin
04-10-2007, 6:06 PM
Cant hurt :)

veeklog
04-10-2007, 7:23 PM
So, since 2005, I've spent alot of time reading the threads on this board - especially since the advent of the OLL, in which a few, brave (and maybe, well funded) members went forth to pave the way for all of us to get OLLs. I'm extremely grateful for the legal advice, analysis, pundits, and general opinions regarding the OLL situation, which convinced me to invest in a few OLL myself. So, life is good, and "thank you" Ben Cannon and Bill Weise.

However, now that it's 2007, I'm still amazed at the paranoia regarding the possession and use of OLL at ranges, at BLM land, etc. The major concern that most people have is that the deputies of law enforcement are going to seize their rifles and that the DA is going to press charges. While things have quieted down somewhat, and more people are comfortable with shooting OLLs at ranges, the "tin foil hat" crowd still worries about LE (Law Enforcement, a.k.a. the cops) busting them at a range for (legally) shooting an OLL. O.k., so now it's a "misdemeanor", but should it really be?

So, I'm wondering if the best course of action would be to get your local LE involved in shooting OLL as well. Given the "six degrees of separation" we all share, I'm sure that some Calgun members know some "cops" as friends, aquintances, whatever in their geographical region. So, my question is, would it be a good thing to have more "cops that are my buds" involved in the OLL thing so that they can spread the word amongst their comrades that "all is good"? If we get COPS involved in owning, using, and loving OLLs (without a 'mommy note' from their chief) then I think that we've finally won the battle.

Ideally, it would be good for Calgunners to post, "Yeah, I shoot in location XYZ and the cops seem 'cool with it'". It's a start in the right direction, IMHO. At the end of the day, if LEs are cool with people LEGALLY utilizing OLL at ranges, BLM land, etc., than I think we (collectively) don't have a problem. If LE isn't going to bust you/ cite you/ ruin your day for owning an OLL, then who cares what your local DA thinks. They have better things to worry about, like "gang violence" (close to where I live), pedophiles (hopefully, not close to where I live), and insurance scams (everywhere). :)

In any case, I apologize if I missed a similar thread on the topic. But, please, enlighten me- I realize that, because I check this board infrequently, I may have missed something. And, yeah, "search is your friend"... :)

Anyways, please "slam" me opinion on this one. I'm anxious to learn...

Respectfully Yours,

Agent MerryLees,
(just kidding) :)

(And, for the record, I live in the Santa Cruz County area and have NO IDEA whether LE would ruin my day... I still continue to shoot my OLL, though.)

Already ahead of you. Half the people that I worked with have already purchased several lowers and built several rifles.

whlgun
04-10-2007, 7:28 PM
Ive never met a LEO that hasnt heard or owns a a offlist rifle. There hazy about the different options we have but atleast there aware of our situation.

slowjonn
04-10-2007, 7:39 PM
I would stay away from sending letters, memo's, etc. to the head LEO about these things. Not that we are wrong in what we are doing. However, the guy at the top is a politician first (there are some exceptions). They are going to be leary of OLL's and may not be your best base of support. Remember, most of them are going to do what is best "for the children". Evil OLL's don't really fit that program.

Your best "line of defense" is the uniformed street cop. That is where you will encounter your best support group. Just my .02

hoffmang
04-10-2007, 7:55 PM
I'm still amused by how many of the CHP officers at the hearing on the attempted new regulations were OLL owners.

You could clearly see the "you can do that to an AR?" on many of their faces.

-Gene

Matt C
04-10-2007, 7:57 PM
Cops have a lot less power than most people think...

AJAX22
04-10-2007, 8:01 PM
All I have to say is whatever you do, dont date a cops sister. I think I still have a bounty on my head up in monterey county.

her brothers were CHP and PD, and her dad was a CO...

when I broke up with her it was not fun times.

devjunk762
04-10-2007, 8:27 PM
"I would stay away from sending letters, memo's, etc. to the head LEO about these things. Not that we are wrong in what we are doing. However, the guy at the top is a politician first (there are some exceptions). They are going to be leary of OLL's and may not be your best base of support. Remember, most of them are going to do what is best "for the children". Evil OLL's don't really fit that program."

O.k., SlowJohn, I agree with you to a certain extent. However, at the very least (I'm hoping) the local LE chief is going to have the courtesy to say, "Yeah, I'm still going to arrest your *** if you're carrying an OLL on my turf". The DOJ didn't even have the bawlz to say that... they, in essence, deferred to the 52 DAs across California (WTF?). I can't imagine that the local LE chief can waffle too much on this point, they're either on board OR not. And, maybe that's the main problem with the OLL game... you get the CA DOJ, who defers to the local DA, who defer back to the DOJ, and the local LE chiefs look to the local DA's... it's a never ending game of "pass the puck".

I dunno. It really can't hurt to ask, is all I'm saying. The answer I expect to get is, "We dunno... ask the local DA". And, asking the local DA will result in "ask the DOJ". And... yeah, you get the point now? Well, at the very least if some counties are still p-footing around on the issue, local shooters know where they stand. :)

And, at this point things have died down to the point where the OLL game is no longer fun anymore. I remember the days where I felt like an undercover agent heading down to Taft to get an OLL... ah, I'm such the adrenaline junkie! :)

veeklog
04-10-2007, 8:40 PM
Cops have a lot less power than most people think...

Oh, aren't you so right!! Actually, politicians will nails us to the wall with "you should have known better!"

luvtolean
04-10-2007, 8:51 PM
I'm still amused by how many of the CHP officers at the hearing on the attempted new regulations were OLL owners.

You could clearly see the "you can do that to an AR?" on many of their faces.

-Gene

In spite of the dusty ones riding around next to them all day, it's very difficult in some departments to get a letter signed allowing you to buy the rifle.

My buddy tried and couldn't, so he's doing what I am.

We grew up shooting together...he went off to the military, I went off to college...we both got "out" to find our right to buy an AR had been stripped from us...and we've been mad ever since.

slowjonn
04-13-2007, 6:04 AM
[QUOTE=devjunk762;568842
O.k., SlowJohn, I agree with you to a certain extent. However, at the very least (I'm hoping) the local LE chief is going to have the courtesy to say, "Yeah, I'm still going to arrest your *** if you're carrying an OLL on my turf". The DOJ didn't even have the bawlz to say that... they, in essence, deferred to the 52 DAs across California (WTF?). I can't imagine that the local LE chief can waffle too much on this point, they're either on board OR not. And, maybe that's the main problem with the OLL game... you get the CA DOJ, who defers to the local DA, who defer back to the DOJ, and the local LE chiefs look to the local DA's... it's a never ending game of "pass the puck".

I dunno. It really can't hurt to ask, is all I'm saying. The answer I expect to get is, "We dunno... ask the local DA". And, asking the local DA will result in "ask the DOJ". And... yeah, you get the point now? Well, at the very least if some counties are still p-footing around on the issue, local shooters know where they stand. :)

And, at this point things have died down to the point where the OLL game is no longer fun anymore. I remember the days where I felt like an undercover agent heading down to Taft to get an OLL... ah, I'm such the adrenaline junkie! :)[/QUOTE]

Oh I was not saying that you shouldn't send letters to the top LEO, just that if the whole idea is to befriend LEO's, The line troops are where your going to get the most bang for your buck. They are the ones that are going to stop you and deal with any OLL issues, not the COP/ Sheriff. There is nothing wrong with spreading the word to all of them. That was all I was trying to say. :)

DirtySanchez
04-13-2007, 7:24 AM
Well, It was an L.A. County Sheriff Deputy that first told me about OLLs.
In fact he was the guy that pointed me to ColdWar Shooters.

jnojr
04-13-2007, 10:28 AM
However, now that it's 2007, I'm still amazed at the paranoia regarding the possession and use of OLL at ranges, at BLM land, etc. The major concern that most people have is that the deputies of law enforcement are going to seize their rifles and that the DA is going to press charges. While things have quieted down somewhat, and more people are comfortable with shooting OLLs at ranges, the "tin foil hat" crowd still worries about LE (Law Enforcement, a.k.a. the cops) busting them at a range for (legally) shooting an OLL.

Since this has actually happened... people have been arrested and charged for possessing legal rifles, and have lost the rifles... it's hardly a "tin foil hat" issue.

hoffmang
04-13-2007, 5:20 PM
jnjor,

Only 1 properly configured rifle out of at least 3 arrest I know of lost the rifle and that was at the defendant's choice.

-Gene