PDA

View Full Version : still can't find a safe...


bug_eyedmonster
03-10-2012, 11:45 PM
Hey folks,

So here's what I've found. The AMSEX RF safe (TL-30) is too small, and I can't afford a Brown or Graffunder (at least the models I want). I've got about $4500 to 5000 to spend, and I want something UL TL rated, not RSC, and it needs to be asthetically pleasing (my fiance's request). I've looked at the BF series safes again, still can't do it. Same thing with any of the Liberty safes. I've been kicking around the Superior Supreme 55, and possibly the Fort Knox, but the Superior isn't as much steel as I want, and the Fort Knox Legend is out of my price range. Here's another option I've considered....

I was thinking about buying the AMSEC HS7943, but I haven't seen them in person, and the guys at the local dealership wasn't very helpful. Do these actually look decent, or are they literally a commercial safe like the ones at the dealerships? The salesperson at the dealership actually told me that I wouldn't need to bolt this down because of sheer weight. He also told me that it doesn't come with any holes drilled, but I can pay to have them drilled if I wanted them. Delivery is substancially more because of weight, which I understand, but I can't seem to really find much more info about them. Any help? Any other suggestions?

Jerry

Ubermcoupe
03-10-2012, 11:47 PM
Sounds like you’re set in stone on AMSEC?

Why not Liberty? or have a Stack - On custom make one for you?

NVM. I see you have checked into liberty. What are your specs on a safe, maybe that could help direct you some where. :o

bug_eyedmonster
03-11-2012, 12:03 AM
Sounds like you’re set in stone on AMSEC?

Why not Liberty? or have a Stack - On custom make one for you?

NVM. I see you have checked into liberty. What are your specs on a safe, maybe that could help direct you some where. :o

Bottom line, I am looking for something along the lines of a UL rated safe at TL-15 or TL13, and it needs to be at least as large as 71 inches tall, 42 inches wide, and over 25 inches deep. I know every manufacturer has different dimensions and material thicknesses, but this is getting really difficult. I do not want something with less than 2000 pounds overall in that size, and would prefer a light kit and electrical wired into it. I Haven't looked into anything custom made because of the price, I just can't believe its taking this long to find something.

Sturdy safes seem very uummmm.... utilitarian, for the lack of better words. Its great that they are locally made, but it's just not for me.

Jerry

CZ97B
03-11-2012, 12:05 AM
There is a place in San Jose:

http://www.libertysafesofsanjose.com/

bug_eyedmonster
03-11-2012, 12:13 AM
There is a place in San Jose:

http://www.libertysafesofsanjose.com/

Been there, I've pretty much counted out Liberty, like I said before. For what they cost, you seem to get less protection than other brands out there.

Jerry

CZ97B
03-11-2012, 12:28 AM
Been there, I've pretty much counted out Liberty, like I said before. For what they cost, you seem to get less protection than other brands out there.

Jerry

I sure love mine.

Holds 4 long guns, has a top shelf for about 4 handguns, an ammo shelf, and a side stowage area for a fire-proof box and photo gear.

Cost me $600 when I bought it a few years ago.

bug_eyedmonster
03-11-2012, 12:31 AM
I sure love mine.

Holds 4 long guns, has a top shelf for about 4 handguns, an ammo shelf, and a side stowage area for a fire-proof box and photo gear.

Cost me $600 when I bought it a few years ago.

great.

bsg
03-11-2012, 12:34 AM
have you considered a used Fort Knox?

bug_eyedmonster
03-11-2012, 12:43 AM
I don't even know where to go for used safes. I've checked locally, and the only thing I've come across was used commercial AMSECs, which is why the HS7943 is a pending option. It's just ugly as hell is all. Any leads on where to go for a larger used Fort Knox?

Jerry

WWDHD?
03-11-2012, 12:52 AM
For your budget you could get a really nice Sturdy with the fire lining, upgraded interior and other cool options and they'd probably paint it any color you want by special order too and still have $$$ left over. I wouldn't be suprised if the Sturdy safe would be UL rated if the company was interested in paying to have it tested. Good luck.

CZ97B
03-11-2012, 12:56 AM
I don't even know where to go for used safes. I've checked locally, and the only thing I've come across was used commercial AMSECs, which is why the HS7943 is a pending option. It's just ugly as hell is all. Any leads on where to go for a larger used Fort Knox?

Jerry

Sometimes at the gun ranges you will see cards posted with for-sale info on gunsafes.

Safes turn over occasionally when someone decides to buy a bigger one to meet the needs of an ever increasing gun supply.

And vice versa.

There are 3 shooting ranges in the South Bay:

- Metcalf Road (Santa Clara Co Outdoor Field Sports)

- Stevens Creek (Sunnyvale Rod & Gun)

- Skyline (Los Altos Rod & Gun)

bug_eyedmonster
03-11-2012, 1:25 AM
For your budget you could get a really nice Sturdy with the fire lining, upgraded interior and other cool options and they'd probably paint it any color you want by special order too and still have $$$ left over. I wouldn't be suprised if the Sturdy safe would be UL rated if the company was interested in paying to have it tested. Good luck.

I understand that Sturdy safes are the best bang for your buck, and I've love to talk to someone about getting one custom made. Their website sucks, I can't find any decent pictures of them, and I've called them twice, left messages about getting a custom safe built, and never heard back. I'm glad you are happy with their product, but if they don't want my business, I'm okay with that. Besides, when I showed them to my fiance, the first word out of her mouth was "UGLY!!!"

Jerry

Redchevyman
03-11-2012, 1:34 AM
Tractor supply in Gilroy has Cannon safes on sale $799.

Exterior Width: 40 in.
Exterior Length: 25-15/16 in.
Exterior Height: 60 in.
Inner Width: 38-1/4 in.
Inner Length: 21-5/8 in.
Inner Height: 58-1/4 in.
Capacity: 33.3 cu. ft.
Gun Capacity: 36
Product Weight: 585 lb.
Exterior Material: Steel
Overall Color: Black
Mounting Type: Floor
Lock Type: SecuRAM Digital Keypad
Fire Protection: Yes
Waterproof: Yes
Warranty: Lifetime

http://www.tractorsupply.com/cannon-gun-safe-ts6040-60-in-h-36-gun-capacity-3910204

http://tsc.tractorsupply.com/thumb.php?s=150&f=https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/9086/10h/origin-d5.scene7.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/3910204?$prod_det$

bug_eyedmonster
03-11-2012, 3:05 AM
Tractor supply in Gilroy has Cannon safes on sale $799.

Exterior Width: 40 in. (not enough)
Exterior Length: 25-15/16 in.
Exterior Height: 60 in. (not enough)
Inner Width: 38-1/4 in.
Inner Length: 21-5/8 in.
Inner Height: 58-1/4 in.
Capacity: 33.3 cu. ft.
Gun Capacity: 36
Product Weight: 585 lb. (I'm looking for something at least three times this amount)
Exterior Material: Steel
Overall Color: Black
Mounting Type: Floor
Lock Type: SecuRAM Digital Keypad (dont trust them)
Fire Protection: Yes
Waterproof: Yes
Warranty: Lifetime

http://www.tractorsupply.com/cannon-gun-safe-ts6040-60-in-h-36-gun-capacity-3910204

http://tsc.tractorsupply.com/thumb.php?s=150&f=https://a248.e.akamai.net/f/248/9086/10h/origin-d5.scene7.com/is/image/TractorSupplyCompany/3910204?$prod_det$

No way, this isn't nearly enough protection as I'd like, sorry.

Lu(ky
03-11-2012, 3:15 AM
Well there is a place in Los Angeles/ Long Beach area called Sportsman Steel Gun Safes, and I must say they really have some very very nice safes there. For me I was looking for a small compact safe so it was a little out of my price range at the time. But for your price range looks perfect you can see there safes --------> H E R E (http://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/fortress.htm)
I would look at there CROWN SERIES SAFES (http://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/crown_series.htm) top of the line..

And they do have FREE SHIPPING but I am sure it is restricted distance etc..

http://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/images_new_07_04/double_door_safe_red_cover_sm.jpghttp://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/images_new/gun_safe_handgun_rack.jpghttp://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/images_safes_09_09/Pistols-on-the-door-2.jpghttp://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/jigsaw_images/5729_jigsaw.jpghttp://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/images_new/DW1.jpg

thegiff
03-11-2012, 6:45 AM
So if I summarize the specs, they are:
Nice looking gloss finish
TL rated
Really big for a TL rated safe
Really cheap for a TL rated safe
Brand new
Well known name brand
Really heavy, multi-thousand pounds
Delivered

You need to give up on something. Mine has some chips in the finish, so some of the bondo shows in the corners, but looks wasn't a criteria for me. Besides, I bought it used. I have an amvault (TL-30) with the textured finish, it is a commercial finish for sure. Their catalog shows that gloss is available, I'm sure it would look like any other gloss safe. They don't come up used very often, and I've never seen a used TL safe with a gloss finish. Believe me, I keep looking because I need another one. If I really wanted mine to be glossy, then I'd sand and repaint. BTW, it cost me $650 to have mine moved. If you want holes drilled in a TL safe, add another $600 or so, they don't come with holes in them for anything. Besides, in TL safes, holes are not allowed (like a 1/4" hole for wires) or the TL rating and fire rating go away, so keep that in mind also.

Also, does your budget include shipping and taxes? Based on what you are asking for, you need to double your budget. Or, again, something in the list of specs has to give.

Casual_Shooter
03-11-2012, 8:45 AM
Try contacting California Safe Outlet (sponsor here). They used to be The Safe Outlet. Curtis might be able to find something for you.

secret.asian.man
03-11-2012, 9:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PZlKfo38Uw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=G8kYbXsWgHc

REDPATCHUSMC
03-11-2012, 11:21 AM
Have you contacted http://www.sunweldingsafes.com/Sun_Welding_Safe_Company/Home.html?

The are active here on the forum, made in California, and competitive? Perhaps they can custom something for you?

Or I like Patriot safes as well... http://www.patriotsafe.com/ They sometimes offer scratch & dent specials!

Sanman023
03-11-2012, 12:53 PM
http://www.visaliasafes.com/index.html

with your budget...i think they can make it pretty too...

WWDHD?
03-11-2012, 1:03 PM
I understand that Sturdy safes are the best bang for your buck, and I've love to talk to someone about getting one custom made. Their website sucks, I can't find any decent pictures of them, and I've called them twice, left messages about getting a custom safe built, and never heard back. I'm glad you are happy with their product, but if they don't want my business, I'm okay with that. Besides, when I showed them to my fiance, the first word out of her mouth was "UGLY!!!"

Jerry

I'm suprised to hear this. Its a family run business that usually has very good CS. I remember when I first contacted them about their safes I got a call back from the owner himself that day. I think they have a pretty good website with lots of good info for anyone shopping for a safe IMO. Maybe you called at a bad time? Holidays or vacations? Stuff happens.
Sturdy safes may not have the looks and bells and whisles like other safes but its hard to beet them for overall security. You get a lot of metal for your money. 7ga is standard and 5ga steel is optional. I don't think you can get even 7ga from Liberty unless you buy the top end President Series.
Don't get me wrong Liberty makes some great safes and have good CS. And if you want all the fancy stuff like glossy paint, lighting, drawers and shinny brass then they are a great choice. You have a nice sized budget to work with. Take your time and get something you'll be happy with for a long time. I know someone who owns a President series Liberty and its freaken' spectacular! Way out of my price range. As nice as it is I honestly don't think its any more or less secure than my 32x24 Sturdy.
For me I couldn't be happier with my Sturdy. I'm glad I stretched my original budget to get one. Good luck!

Librarian
03-11-2012, 2:46 PM
You've looked at the amsec web site for the HS series? http://www.amsecusa.com/Gun_Safes/HS_Series_Gun_Safes/

Apparently they have lots of gloss finishes, but I really don't see that the HS7943 is enough bigger than the RF6528 to make a difference - looks like just 8" interior width increase.

Have you called Security Safe in Hayward? I found them very helpful (as in, I bought from them).

Old4eyes
03-11-2012, 8:54 PM
I too am surprised that you haven't gotten a call back from Sturdy. When I emailed my questions I got very quick response from the daughter, a call from the owner and I had a safe within a couple of weeks even with extras being put in.

I see you are in Hayward, you might contact Security Safe and see if they have anything used in the TL ranks. I had them do the install of my Sturdy.

http://www.securitysafeusa.com/products/pre-owned.html

Mr. Beretta
03-12-2012, 7:57 AM
I'm suprised to hear this. Its a family run business that usually has very good CS. I remember when I first contacted them about their safes I got a call back from the owner himself that day. I think they have a pretty good website with lots of good info for anyone shopping for a safe IMO. Maybe you called at a bad time? Holidays or vacations? Stuff happens.
Sturdy safes may not have the looks and bells and whisles like other safes but its hard to beet them for overall security. You get a lot of metal for your money. 7ga is standard and 5ga steel is optional. I don't think you can get even 7ga from Liberty unless you buy the top end President Series.
Don't get me wrong Liberty makes some great safes and have good CS. And if you want all the fancy stuff like glossy paint, lighting, drawers and shinny brass then they are a great choice. You have a nice sized budget to work with. Take your time and get something you'll be happy with for a long time. I know someone who owns a President series Liberty and its freaken' spectacular! Way out of my price range. As nice as it is I honestly don't think its any more or less secure than my 32x24 Sturdy.
For me I couldn't be happier with my Sturdy. I'm glad I stretched my original budget to get one. Good luck!


I'm another Sturdy fan!

Last year I called, asked lots of questions and my new safe was in my driveway in 4 days! Over the years, I've owned excellent safes from both Browning and Cannon, but neither offered what Sturdy did for the same money.

Good luck & buy the best safe you can afford. It'd be worth every penny!

mat19er8
03-12-2012, 8:35 AM
Try Halls, nice stuff.

http://www.hallsafe.com/main.html

mag360
03-12-2012, 11:18 AM
I sure love mine.

Holds 4 long guns, has a top shelf for about 4 handguns, an ammo shelf, and a side stowage area for a fire-proof box and photo gear.

Cost me $600 when I bought it a few years ago.

He's looking at TL rated $4500 safes to get expenentially better protection than your small 1/10" thick sheet metal container.

mag360
03-12-2012, 11:22 AM
Does it really have to be aesthetically pleasing? A safe of this quality is pretty utilitarian. I mean are you displaying it in the living room? That seems to be knocking some good choices off your list, or upping the price range.

bug_eyedmonster
03-13-2012, 6:02 PM
Sorry for my absence folks...

thegiff, You are correct, but I am flexible on a few things. I'm not 100% set on the finish, that was just something my fiance would have liked. This is in case it does end up inside the house somewhere, she doesn't want to have to look at something so commercial everytime she walks into a room. As for the rating, I'm flexible as well, since UL has such a broad array of RSCs and such a small number of safes that actually qualify for TLXX ratings.

I gave in and called Sturdy again yesterday (Monday). I spoke with Terry for about an hour. He told me that there's not much in terms of protection that he can offer currently (other than what he already has) in terms of custom making anything, but in a month or so, he's going to have something in the 5 gauge thickness, which I'm interested in. We spoke at length of other brands, what he does and doesn't recommend, and how he'd build a safe. He didn't give me a specific amount, but with my current budget, he said he could build me something off the shelf, with extra layers of steel welded in, fire lined, and even throw in a semi-gloss black finish. This is something I'm definately considering. It's not the nicest looking safe, but for keeping stuff safe, it's up there on my list.

I spoke with two different reps from two different AMSEC dealers. They both gave me different information than what I've found online and on AMSEC's websites. Librarian, I've been eyeballing the CFXXXX safes, as well as the RF/HS models as well. The problem is, I'd want to get the CF7236 (link below) but it's too damn tall to physically get into my garage. It's within my price range, and fo the guys that said to find one used... good luck. I've found a way to bump my budget up a bit, so that helped. The only used TL30 safe I found that was used, and would fit was in the east coast. It would have cost me $700 in shipping alone. booo.

http://www.amsecusa.com/Burglary_and_Fire_Protection/AmVault_TL-15_and_TL-30/

bug_eyedmonster
03-13-2012, 6:13 PM
So if I summarize the specs, they are:
Nice looking gloss finish (not a huge deal, but would be nice)
TL rated (also not required, but would also be nice)
Really big for a TL rated safe
Really cheap for a TL rated safe (I don't get how this and the comment above are tied in here, ease up champ)
Brand new
Well known name brand
Really heavy, multi-thousand pounds (wow)
Delivered

You need to give up on something. Mine has some chips in the finish, so some of the bondo shows in the corners, but looks wasn't a criteria for me. Besides, I bought it used. I have an amvault (TL-30) with the textured finish, it is a commercial finish for sure. Their catalog shows that gloss is available, I'm sure it would look like any other gloss safe. They don't come up used very often, and I've never seen a used TL safe with a gloss finish. Believe me, I keep looking because I need another one. If I really wanted mine to be glossy, then I'd sand and repaint. BTW, it cost me $650 to have mine moved. If you want holes drilled in a TL safe, add another $600 or so, they don't come with holes in them for anything. Besides, in TL safes, holes are not allowed (like a 1/4" hole for wires) or the TL rating and fire rating go away, so keep that in mind also.

Also, does your budget include shipping and taxes? Based on what you are asking for, you need to double your budget. Or, again, something in the list of specs has to give.

Here's a good summary, minus the sarcasm.

The TL safes (especially the AMVAULTS) can be drilled, as an option from the factory, with no extra charge. You can get a different paint job, but it's not required. My budget is flexible, but I don't think I need to double it. I'm definitely willing to "give" on a few things, definitely, this is a safe, not a luxury car. I'm well aware that there are many brands out there and do not have the illusion that a gloss paint job will protect my guns better, but it's something that my fiance requested, and I respect it. It's bad enough she has to have something like this around, and the workbenches in the house, etc... I'm just respectfully trying to fulfill that request.

Finally, thegiff, YOU MAD BRO?:) sorry, I couldnt help myself.

Jerry

bug_eyedmonster
03-13-2012, 6:53 PM
You've looked at the amsec web site for the HS series? http://www.amsecusa.com/Gun_Safes/HS_Series_Gun_Safes/

Apparently they have lots of gloss finishes, but I really don't see that the HS7943 is enough bigger than the RF6528 to make a difference - looks like just 8" interior width increase.

Have you called Security Safe in Hayward? I found them very helpful (as in, I bought from them).

Librarian, maybe you can clear something up here. I've never been able to actually see the CF series safes, and it seems like you have a HS safe. Have you ever seen the CE/CF line in person? From what I understand, the HS/RF line is pretty much the same as the CE/CF, but they have a different assembly on the door, and they have more steel whereas the CE/CF is primarily composite. The composite used for the HS/RF/BF safes are the drylite material used as fire protection, but the CE/CF the composite is more of a "structured shell" from what I've been told. I went to the AMSEC store (Security Safe) in Hayward, the sales person just keeps telling me that I want the BF series safe, and doesn't seem to want to sell me anything else. Any input sir?

Jerry

Librarian
03-13-2012, 8:22 PM
Librarian, maybe you can clear something up here. I've never been able to actually see the CF series safes, and it seems like you have a HS safe. Have you ever seen the CE/CF line in person? From what I understand, the HS/RF line is pretty much the same as the CE/CF, but they have a different assembly on the door, and they have more steel whereas the CE/CF is primarily composite. The composite used for the HS/RF/BF safes are the drylite material used as fire protection, but the CE/CF the composite is more of a "structured shell" from what I've been told. I went to the AMSEC store (Security Safe) in Hayward, the sales person just keeps telling me that I want the BF series safe, and doesn't seem to want to sell me anything else. Any input sir?

Jerry

Actually, I have an older model RF, and I was happy with matte&speckled finish; saved me a couple hundred, which I then used to swap locks.

I did all my shopping on line - called up Security sales and asked 'what kind of deal can you give me on an Amsec RF xxxx?' - so I've never knowingly seen an HS or BF or CF.

bug_eyedmonster
03-13-2012, 11:36 PM
Actually, I have an older model RF, and I was happy with matte&speckled finish; saved me a couple hundred, which I then used to swap locks.

I did all my shopping on line - called up Security sales and asked 'what kind of deal can you give me on an Amsec RF xxxx?' - so I've never knowingly seen an HS or BF or CF.

I've been trying to imagine what that size would be like, it's a bit smaller than what I was looking for. If you don't mind me asking, what could you comfortably fit in terms of long guns and hand guns?

Jerry

Librarian
03-14-2012, 1:14 AM
I've been trying to imagine what that size would be like, it's a bit smaller than what I was looking for. If you don't mind me asking, what could you comfortably fit in terms of long guns and hand guns?

Jerry

Um, well...

It seems that my wife decided a safe was a good place for some other things, so there's not quite so much room for guns in mine than there might be.

The interior I chose has shelves on one side, long-gun space on the other, and one top shelf. Practically, that means about a dozen long guns - I don't have that many yet - and lots of room for handguns, depending on how one arranges them and what else is filling space. Mine is mostly ammo on the lower shelves, handguns on the top shelf.

The web site shows this http://www.amsecusa.com/uploadedImages/Products/Product_Catalog/Gun_Safe/HS_Series/Product_List/12-18-30_RF6528.png but there are too many shelves on the left - no way to put long guns there on the left with the shelves there.

bug_eyedmonster
03-14-2012, 1:50 AM
Has anyone had any experiences with either Superior safes or Fort Knox? I got a call earlier today from a vendor sent an email to locally, and he used them both in a comparison against Liberty. I think he was trying to prove to me that the Liberty was better, but the more questions I asked, the more he tried to change the topic. In the end, it made me think about those two brands a bit more. Fort Knox has a warranty on the WHOLE safe, locks, locking mechanism, safe, door, EVERYTHING. Superior makes a safe with almost a ton of steel in it, the Superior Supreme S55, and it will work well with my budget.

After talking to Terry and a few other people in the safe world, I've become more confused. I'm trying to narrow it down, but it seems like everytime I take a step forward, I find out something new and end up back at square one. If people someone could tell me as to why I should or should not be looking at these, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Librarian, I'm in the same boat as you. My fiance wants to put some of her stuff in the safe as well, which is why I'm going to with something this big. She has guns as well (sort of) and I'm sure her collection will be growing as mine does. Thank you for the info, the reason why I was asking about the amount of guns in your safe is because the interiors and their claims never sem realistic.

Jerry

xibunkrlilkidsx
03-14-2012, 6:53 AM
The higher end liberty safes are nice. but so are the For Knox, Amsec safes. TL safe for 4-5000 is tough unless you find a used safe. your on a steak and lobster dinner when you have money for mc donalds.

why do you think you need TL vs RSC?

with your budget a new BF safe is going to be about all you can find.

For the gun interiors. they are pretty close if you were using all lever actions.. scoped rifles are about 2 guns in one of these safes. you can get more to fit but your going to be stuffing them in there. Our book keeper has 50+ guns in a safe the size of 6030 size safes.

My company is a dealer for Amsec

Casual_Shooter
03-14-2012, 6:59 AM
It sounds like you're getting bogged down in Analysis Paralysis.

When I shopped for a safe, I went through a similar thing. The more I found out, the more I got confused. It was hard to find out the construction of some safes and others all seemed like they were built the same as everyone else.

While talking with Terry and his daughter at Sturdy, one thing that stuck in my head was that more- thicker steel is better than anything else. But I also learned that steel can be cut with a plasma cutter very easily (although the contents will most likely be affected).

Concrete lining and stainless steel liners will help with the torch aspect.

The reality, is that any brand name safe is going to serve you well for years- as well as keep 90% of the criminal element from getting your stuff. They just aren't going to take the time to try and get into your safe - assuming it's in a spot that isn't easily accessible to prying and is bolted down.

The other 10% will get your stuff no matter what, so don't worry about them.

One extra precaution we took was to get a safe that would only fit through the doorway to the room where we installed it if the molding and trim was removed. So anyone trying to remove the safe would realize they had another step to take assuming they had the means to move it.

Every little bit helps, but of course, nothing is foolproof.

Lu(ky
03-14-2012, 11:55 AM
If it was me I would get two safes. One small one that could hold 6 long guns, 12 handguns, and some ammo and documents/jewelry for the inside. Then a larger one for the garage area with most of the ammo and some other guns. Because you are taking a chance with just one safe. If you look at my post on 15 these guys build the safes any color shape size. Check out there video's as well very interesting on the quality. If you look at there double step jig saw front door it is AIR TIGHT with a double layer of protection. When I was there looking at them there was a FBI agent buying his second safe from the guy.

http://www.sportsmansteelsafes.com/jigsaw_images/5729_jigsaw.jpg

incredablehefey
03-14-2012, 12:35 PM
You could have sportsman steel custom make one to your specs and you can see it as they make it to make sure it is the quality and thickness you want. Show up with cash in hand and they will bargain, try for 20-30% off asking price(depending on how busy they are they might go for it)

thegiff
03-14-2012, 12:55 PM
Ha ha, no not mad at all...

All kinds of great suggestions were offered and seemed fall by the wayside. I've found that writing down the various options and ranking them is the best way to drill down the most suitable choice, that's one of the things I do regularly at my job, though reading back what I wrote, it does come across more harsh than I would have liked, sorry about that...

That doesn't change the root issue that this thread seems to be about, which is the budget that was mentioned isn't enough to meet every spec. If it was, there would be no need for discussion, you would get an F-rated Graffunder, and I would do the same.

I'm with Casual Shooter, I did the same thing when I bought mine. Lots of analysis, no obvious good choice. Also, I definitely understand your desire to keep the lady happy, the saying "happy wife, happy life" applies. I would say that can be more important than you know.

bug_eyedmonster
03-14-2012, 1:18 PM
I almost sprang for a Graffunder, but it's hard to justify that much money for something you don't want people to know about, let alone see. Just like Casual Shooter said, that 10% is going to get what I have no matter what, so I'm just trying to stop the 90% of dumb*****es. My fiance gave me a deadline of this coming Friday to decide and buy, so I took the day off to make phone calls and such. I talked to Alyssa and she sent me some pictures and stuff. I just had my friend come by, who is a general contractor. He was going to help me bolt the safe down until he showed up. The first thing he said was "this isn't going to happen" because I have a tension slap foundation. Now I need to figure out how i'm going to do this... his recommendation was to pour a section of concrete slightly larger than my safe and bolt it to that. Thoughts?

I also got a call from a Liberty/Superior dealer locally. He potentially has a Liberty Presidential 50 coming back to him from a divorce or something, which is only a couple of years old. I never really got past the fact that their hinges are internal, which could be potential problems, but should I consider it if it's cheap? I think at this point, I'm still leaning towards the Sturdy. I spoke with a Fort Knox dealer here, and he said the best I could get would be a new Defender with the deluxe package installed, which would bring the body to 3/8" wall with a 5/16" door. I think I've taken them out of the picture too, unless a used one pops up. I can't believe I took a day off to torture myself... I might just go to the range.

Jerry

thegiff
03-14-2012, 1:18 PM
I saw that you are asking what can fit in a AMSEC CF vs RF, and the construction. My understanding is that they are the same type of safe, and that the composite material isn't drylite, but is instead fire resistant, steel fiber reinforced and burglary resistant (probably carbide chip infused) insulating concrete. The door is a shell with the above described concrete and a layer of armor plate. The door is 2 3/4 thick on the burglary resistant face and the rest of the 5+" of thickness is where the door locking mechanism is.

Mine is a CF5524, the interior is 55" high, 24" wide and 20" deep. Half of the safe holds just barely 8 long guns, they are 3 shotguns, 3 scoped rifles, 2 unscoped rifles. The other half holds documents, jewelry type stuff, and backup hard drives. The top shelf can hold several hand guns, maybe 10 or 20 if they are in soft cases and packed tightly.

Regarding how much stuff fits, definitely get a larger safe than your immediate needs. Once you get some stuff in there, then you will want to get more stuff in there. The guy I bought my safe from (used as I mentioned) said that 3/4 of it was his wife's stuff (photo albums, etc.).

bug_eyedmonster
03-14-2012, 1:24 PM
I saw that you are asking what can fit in a AMSEC CF vs RF, and the construction. My understanding is that they are the same type of safe, and that the composite material isn't drylite, but is instead fire resistant, steel fiber reinforced and burglary resistant (probably carbide chip infused) insulating concrete. The door is a shell with the above described concrete and a layer of armor plate. The door is 2 3/4 thick on the burglary resistant face and the rest of the 5+" of thickness is where the door locking mechanism is.

Mine is a CF5524, the interior is 55" high, 24" wide and 20" deep. Half of the safe holds just barely 8 long guns, they are 3 shotguns, 3 scoped rifles, 2 unscoped rifles. The other half holds documents, jewelry type stuff, and backup hard drives. The top shelf can hold several hand guns, maybe 10 or 20 if they are in soft cases and packed tightly.

Regarding how much stuff fits, definitely get a larger safe than your immediate needs. Once you get some stuff in there, then you will want to get more stuff in there. The guy I bought my safe from (used as I mentioned) said that 3/4 of it was his wife's stuff (photo albums, etc.).

My current safe is a Browning POS. Its getting so bad, I took the interior out, and I have all of the long guns piled in gun socks, with just a top shelf holding all of the pistols in gun socks. There's no room for any of her stuff, and nothing other than guns at the moment. The problem is, I physically can't fit a larger gun safe than what I have mentioned, unless I get two, one big one for the garage, one medium one to put somewhere in our tiny townhouse. Her solution was to buy a new house (damn women) and then I can get as big of a safe as I want. Too bad real estate agents can't get paid in Monopoly money or books bucks, or else that would be the dream.

The other problem is, she's got her guns that need to go in the safe (currently piled in with my stuff) and when I told her that I wanted my own safe, she got a bit upset and said I could get my own bed downstairs with my own safe.

Jerry

cranemech
03-14-2012, 5:41 PM
Sorry for my absence folks...

thegiff, You are correct, but I am flexible on a few things. I'm not 100% set on the finish, that was just something my fiance would have liked. This is in case it does end up inside the house somewhere, she doesn't want to have to look at something so commercial everytime she walks into a room. As for the rating, I'm flexible as well, since UL has such a broad array of RSCs and such a small number of safes that actually qualify for TLXX ratings.

I gave in and called Sturdy again yesterday (Monday). I spoke with Terry for about an hour. He told me that there's not much in terms of protection that he can offer currently (other than what he already has) in terms of custom making anything, but in a month or so, he's going to have something in the 5 gauge thickness, which I'm interested in. We spoke at length of other brands, what he does and doesn't recommend, and how he'd build a safe. He didn't give me a specific amount, but with my current budget, he said he could build me something off the shelf, with extra layers of steel welded in, fire lined, and even throw in a semi-gloss black finish. This is something I'm definately considering. It's not the nicest looking safe, but for keeping stuff safe, it's up there on my list.

I spoke with two different reps from two different AMSEC dealers. They both gave me different information than what I've found online and on AMSEC's websites. Librarian, I've been eyeballing the CFXXXX safes, as well as the RF/HS models as well. The problem is, I'd want to get the CF7236 (link below) but it's too damn tall to physically get into my garage. It's within my price range, and fo the guys that said to find one used... good luck. I've found a way to bump my budget up a bit, so that helped. The only used TL30 safe I found that was used, and would fit was in the east coast. It would have cost me $700 in shipping alone. booo.

http://www.amsecusa.com/Burglary_and_Fire_Protection/AmVault_TL-15_and_TL-30/

Your garage has less than 7 feet of headroom?

eville
03-14-2012, 5:52 PM
My dad bought his AmSec here in hayward:
http://securitysafeusa1.reachlocal.com/?scid=1866125&kw=887565&pub_cr_id=4994317300

Casual_Shooter
03-15-2012, 7:10 AM
The first thing he said was "this isn't going to happen" because I have a tension slap foundation. Now I need to figure out how i'm going to do this... his recommendation was to pour a section of concrete slightly larger than my safe and bolt it to that. Thoughts?

Jerry

You can epoxy the safe to the concrete. I have no idea how you get it out when you decide to move, but this was recommended to someone with the same problem (post tension slab) on another forum by their resident safe expert.

Speaking of... Give www.zykansafe.com a call. He's a1abdj on other forums - like THR etc- (his actual name escapes me). He's the resident safe expert mentioned above and by all accounts, a very nice, helpful guy. Also sells a fair amount of used safes.

There is also CB900F on THR who is a Graffunder dealer in Montana. Very helpful and can arrange shipping to you. You'd have to find an installer if necessary.

bug_eyedmonster
03-16-2012, 4:16 AM
Your garage has less than 7 feet of headroom?

oops, I meant to say, i wanted the larger one, but there's not enough room for that model. sorry about that.

Jerry

Jerry1949
03-16-2012, 7:12 AM
http://www.visaliasafes.com/index.html

with your budget...i think they can make it pretty too...

I have been to the shop where these are built and the owner gave me a grand tour. These safes are built to your specifications and built well. They are first rate protection for your guns/valuables and they are as good or better than Fort Knox.

Thrashard340
03-16-2012, 7:12 PM
I met a guy at the SF show representing Visalia Safes. He seemed pretty knowledgeable. I don't know if they are UL TL rated, but for what they charge it seems like it would be. All their safes are custom built to your specs/requirements. It may be worth placing a call to them to check it out.

bug_eyedmonster
03-16-2012, 11:52 PM
callthem them as well as Hall Safes today, I'm just waiting to get a call back. Thanks for the input folks!

Jerry

California Safe Outlet
03-21-2012, 10:26 AM
Don't mean to highjack the thread. But I've been working on a solution to this problem for a while with american security. What do you guys think about the BF Series if it had a 1/4 inner steel liner? So you'd have 11 gauge outer, 2" of there drylight concrete, and a 1/4 inner. I've been talking to amsec about this for years, and if there is enough attention hopefully they will build it. So you could have a upgrad from the BF series without the cost of the HS Series. Opinions?

ldsnet
03-21-2012, 3:44 PM
Drilling a post-tension slab is possible to do safely IF you do your homework. You are not drilling through your slab, just deep enough to seat an anchor.

Here is some advise from somebody who knows more about it than I do: www.comncreteconstruction.net

Drilling into a post-tensioned slab
Another popular myth with post-tensioned slabs is that it is very difficult to drill into an existing slab because of the unknown location of the tendons and anchors. But as long the tendons and the concrete in front of the anchors are not damaged, drilling into a post-tensioned slab is a fairly routine issue.

Existing tendons can be located using a pacometer (handheld metal detector) or an X-ray device. With the X-ray in hand, a technician can mark the tendon locations directly on the concrete surface. I have used a $40 store-bought metal detector and located tendons in a 12-inch-wide beam. For buildings where tenants change frequently, we recommend marking one side of the slab so future tenants will know exactly where the strands and anchors were placed.

northbaygunner
03-23-2012, 9:18 PM
Not sure if this would meet all of your needs, but the top of the line Cannon safe is pretty huge, pretty strong, and has a 90 minute fire rating.

http://www.cannonsafe.com/series/commander/co54.html

The MSRP is $4696, but i've been doing some looking around online and I found a website that will ship them to your door for $3449. Don't know much about the website but they did email me back to confirm the free deliver to your curb and not the local hub.

http://www.gunsafesnow.com/cannonpatriotseriesp146-12guncapacity-2-1-1-1.aspx

I don't have a cannon safe so I don't know about the quality, but that looks like the last safe you would have to buy for while.

Hot Brass
03-25-2012, 12:00 AM
When I bought my Visalia Safe, it was made from 1/4" and 3/8" steel. Not the sheetmetal that is sold now.

Glad I bought when I did.

Good luck bug.

greybeard
03-25-2012, 5:14 AM
check out sun welding, they do custom paint
http://www.sunweldingsafes.com/Sun_Welding_Safe_Company/Home.html

Sabesimpson
03-25-2012, 5:24 PM
Like the fellow above said try out sun welding safes! I bought A S34 and I am very happy with the convertible upscale interior and the out side is very nice too... Since I was able to tour the shop that they use to build the safe here in Simi valley I an sure they can custom build you a safe and you will have left over cash!! And it's 100% made in the USA!!

bug_eyedmonster
03-25-2012, 11:26 PM
I called Visalia and Hall, left them both voicemails/messages but nothing yet. The situation with Sturdy is they are currently trying to source material for a three gauge with possibly a 3/8th inch door (instead of 5/16"). Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions, I'll give Sun a call too, but there's not too many options I've seen from them as of now.

California Safe Outlet, as of now, I'd be interested in something like that specialty AmSec, but I think it'd more depend on the cost difference between the BF and your model at this point.

Jerry

X231
03-26-2012, 7:55 AM
Another vote for Sturdy. Terry don't build junk.

Here's a story about Terry .. I bought a safe from him about 12 years ago. I ordered some custom features and the day the safe was supposed to be ready I rented a U Haul trailer and a hand truck. Went down to pick the safe up and it wasn't ready. I told Terry I was out some $$$ on the U Haul stuff. He said the safe would ready the next day and he would personally deliver it and put it in place on his way home from work. Now that my friends is customer service!

California Safe Outlet
03-27-2012, 9:20 AM
Amsec came back with a quote for a custom built BF7240. So it would be a 11 gauge outer steel plate, 2" of concrete drylight, and then a 1/4" inner steel plate.
Regular BF7240 Price: $4499 Weight:1539lbs

HD BF7240 Price: $5199 Weight: 2021lbs