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gn3hz3ku1*
04-10-2007, 8:07 AM
OMG how retarded is this?
it even says guns only account for 5 percent of sucides... and i am faily sure if they didnt have a gun, they would use something else

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070410/ts_nm/suicide_guns_dc&printer=1;_ylt=AjVf.yQ_1DDnTdd83d2MAqlg.3QA

Guns at home equal higher suicide risk: study 1 hour, 44 minutes ago


Suicide rates among people of all ages are higher in states where more homes have guns, U.S. researchers reported on Tuesday.

Twice as many people committed suicide in the 15 states with the highest levels of household gun ownership, compared with the six states with the lowest levels, even though the population in all the states was about the same, the researchers found.

"We found that where there are more guns, there are more suicides," said Matthew Miller of the Harvard School of Public Health, who led the study.

While just 5 percent of all suicide attempts involve a gun, the person succeeds in killing himself or herself 90 percent of the time.

People use drugs to attempt suicide in 75 percent of cases, but actually die less than 3 percent of the time, the researchers said, citing other surveys.

The study, published in the Journal of Trauma, suggests that removing guns from homes, particularly those with adolescents, would have a big impact on suicide prevention.

"In a nation where more than half of all suicides are gun suicides and where more than one in three homes have firearms, one cannot talk about suicide without talking about guns," Miller said in a statement.

Suicide is the 11th-leading cause of death among Americans, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. In 2004, more than half of the 32,439 Americans who committed suicide used a firearm.

Miller and colleagues used survey data to estimate the percentage of people who kept guns in their homes in each of the 50 states. They looked at a survey of 200,000 people done by the CDC in 2001, which found that about a third of U.S. households reported having a gun.

They took into account poverty, urbanization, unemployment, drug and alcohol dependence and abuse, and mental illness, and calculated the relationship of gun ownership to suicide.

"Removing all firearms from one's home is one of the most effective and straightforward steps that household decision-makers can take to reduce the risk of suicide," Miller said.

"Removing firearms may be especially effective in reducing the risk of suicide among adolescents and other potentially impulsive members of their home," Miller added.

"Short of removing all firearms, the next best thing is to make sure that all guns in homes are very securely locked up and stored separately from secured ammunition," he said.

The same team found in February that guns are used to kill two out of every three murder victims in the United States.

luvtolean
04-10-2007, 8:14 AM
The big quote here is "correlation does not equal causality".

AJAX22
04-10-2007, 8:29 AM
I'm pretty certain that cutting off your hands would help to prevent suicide as well, I'm surprised they don't advocate that.

after all 99.8 % of all suicide victims had one or more hands that were used in the comission of the crime.

dfletcher
04-10-2007, 8:42 AM
Living in San Fran, I've always thought it interesting that the number of people who commit suicide with a gun pales in comparison to jumping off the GG bridge. I read a few years ago that the bridge was approaching 1,000 people having killed themself - they didn't want to give the exact # as folks would rush out in the hopes of being the 1,000th person - but I think the average is about one person every 3 weeks. Can you imagine the resulting uproar of one gun suicide per month?

Incitatus
04-10-2007, 9:09 AM
Living in San Fran, I've always thought it interesting that the number of people who commit suicide with a gun pales in comparison to jumping off the GG bridge. I read a few years ago that the bridge was approaching 1,000 people having killed themself - they didn't want to give the exact # as folks would rush out in the hopes of being the 1,000th person - but I think the average is about one person every 3 weeks. Can you imagine the resulting uproar of one gun suicide per month?

Ban Golden Gate bridge!

cartman
04-10-2007, 9:45 AM
Well the article makes sense you don't see too many soilders throwing drugs at their enemies. Seriously though people that commit suicide are usually weak willed/minded so its just sorting out the weak ones which is better for the whole group. Just how I see things.

chiefcrash
04-10-2007, 9:51 AM
you know, there is a strong correlation between toasters and teen preganancy.

the more small consumer electronics a household has (toasters, microwaves, blenders, etc), the less chance there will be an unexpected teen preganancy in that household.

does that mean owning a lot of toasters is an effective birth control method? hell no. but why does that correlation exsist?

statistically speaking, households with all those small consumer electronics have a higher, more stable income. It makes sense that a household with a higher, more stable income would have better education amongst their teenagers. They also can afford things like condoms, the pill, diaphrams, etc (condoms can get DAMN expensive if you're lucky enough to need a steady supply)

So why would areas of high gun ownership possibly have higher suicide rates?

first off, taking a survey of people in 50 states, but only looking at 200,000 people is a pitiful sample size. Assuming a total United States population of three hundred million, 200,000 is only 0.07% of the population. 200,000 might be a workable sample size for say California, and even that's pushing it pretty far.

they don't mention WHERE those houses full of guns are. Luckily, other surveys have shown that the more rural of an area, the higher percentage of gun ownership. Maybe this is more of an issue of people in rural areas having a higher suicide rate (i know if i lived in arkansas, *I* would probably want to kill myself).

The fact that the article says "the same team found in February that guns are used to kill two out of every three murder victims in the US" tells us something. A quick search of the Bureau of Justice Statistics brought me this gem:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/gunpctage.gif (http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/weapons.htm)

The article's statement is true, but only for younger victims. This is a sign of selective sampling.



all of this took me about 10 minutes to look up. imagine what i could do with the years this group had to research this...

hell, with funding and time, i could make a survey tell me that more firearms in the house reduces teen pregancy...

rkt88edmo
04-10-2007, 9:52 AM
Movie trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8muNsj1oUpY

DedEye
04-10-2007, 10:39 AM
The big quote here is "correlation does not equal causality".

Beat me to saying that!
+1000

Bishop
04-10-2007, 10:56 AM
OMG 99.9% of people who get shot in the face have been in a car! We must stop this car epidemic!

As stated earlier: "correlation does not equal causality".

Did anyone else read that stat that doctors kill (unintentionally of course, but still kill) more people that guns every year? Ban doctors! :rolleyes:

PanzerAce
04-10-2007, 11:17 AM
hmmm.....I notice they don't even consider the possibility that maybe there is a tertiary input that causes both high gun ownership and high suicide rates.

luvtolean
04-10-2007, 11:19 AM
Beat me to saying that!
+1000

Freakonomics should be mandatory reading in high school. :)

jdberger
04-10-2007, 11:22 AM
It's important to look at who provides the funding (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantList.aspx)for this "research".

Harvard University School of Public Health
Boston, MA (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantDetails.aspx?grantId=28650)

Amount: $700,000.00
Length: 2 years
URL: www.hsph.harvard.edu/ (http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/)
"To support the Harvard Injury Control Research Center¦s technical assistance to the National Violent Death Reporting System, to conduct policy-relevant firearm research, and to increase its communications capacity."

Why..............................? The Joyce Foundation!

Other folks that they've decided to give a little cash to:


Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence (http://ichv.org/)
WAVE Educational Fund (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantDetails.aspx?grantId=30011)
Mayors Fund to Advance New York City (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantDetails.aspx?grantId=29865)
Violence Policy Center (http://www.vpc.org/)
Mark Karlin & Associates (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantDetails.aspx?grantId=29077)(Better known as the "Gun Guys" (http://www.gunguys.com/))
Legal Community Against Violence (http://www.lcav.org/)
Citizens for a Safer Minnesota Education Fund (http://www.endgunviolence.com/)
Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence (http://www.ohioceasefire.org/)
PAX (http://www.paxusa.org/)
Handgun-Free America (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantDetails.aspx?grantId=26886)
Iowans for the Prevention of Gun Violence (http://www.ipgv.org/)


Follow the money...............

Charliegone
04-10-2007, 12:16 PM
It's important to look at who provides the funding (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantList.aspx)for this "research".



Why..............................? The Joyce Foundation!

Other folks that they've decided to give a little cash to:


Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence (http://ichv.org/)
WAVE Educational Fund (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantDetails.aspx?grantId=30011)
Mayors Fund to Advance New York City (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantDetails.aspx?grantId=29865)
Violence Policy Center (http://www.vpc.org/)
Mark Karlin & Associates (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantDetails.aspx?grantId=29077)(Better known as the "Gun Guys" (http://www.gunguys.com/))
Legal Community Against Violence (http://www.lcav.org/)
Citizens for a Safer Minnesota Education Fund (http://www.endgunviolence.com/)
Ohio Coalition Against Gun Violence (http://www.ohioceasefire.org/)
PAX (http://www.paxusa.org/)
Handgun-Free America (http://www.joycefdn.org/Programs/GunViolence/GrantDetails.aspx?grantId=26886)
Iowans for the Prevention of Gun Violence (http://www.ipgv.org/)


Follow the money...............


I love it how they say "end gun violence.." when in reality they mean..."end gun ownership." Ar**holes.:mad:

rips31
04-10-2007, 12:20 PM
Living in San Fran, I've always thought it interesting that the number of people who commit suicide with a gun pales in comparison to jumping off the GG bridge. I read a few years ago that the bridge was approaching 1,000 people having killed themself - they didn't want to give the exact # as folks would rush out in the hopes of being the 1,000th person - but I think the average is about one person every 3 weeks. Can you imagine the resulting uproar of one gun suicide per month?

i think it's more often, it just doesn't get published. had dinner with a ggb officer the other nite. he said there were 3ppl in the last 3wk.

jdberger
04-10-2007, 12:26 PM
i think it's more often, it just doesn't get published. had dinner with a ggb officer the other nite. he said there were 3ppl in the last 3wk.fish gotta eat, too.

gn3hz3ku1*
04-10-2007, 12:52 PM
whose fault is it that people are smarter when they want to kil themselves they shoot themselves... much more guarantee of death.

most people do a half *** job of killing themselves since they are scared to really do the job and its a scream for help

DedEye
04-10-2007, 2:55 PM
Not to mention banning guns doesn't stop people from committing suicide. Just look at the suicide rates in Japan and the Scandinavian countries.

Charliegone
04-10-2007, 3:41 PM
Not to mention banning guns doesn't stop people from committing suicide. Just look at the suicide rates in Japan and the Scandinavian countries.

exactly...suicide is NOT a gun problem, jump of the bridge problem, etc..its a psychological problem.

grammaton76
04-10-2007, 3:45 PM
exactly...suicide is NOT a gun problem, jump of the bridge problem, etc..its a psychological problem.

Nah, it's an economic problem as well. Who ends up paying the emergency room bills for all these idiots who can't get it right? In most cases, we do. And a lot of those suicide-attempt folks will "try" and "try" and "try" again. We get billed every time.

If you're gonna TRY it... SUCCEED, the first time. That's all I've got to say about the matter.

paradox
04-10-2007, 4:38 PM
If you're gonna TRY it... SUCCEED, the first time. That's all I've got to say about the matter.


There's always Union Pacific:

http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/maps/sysmap/graphics/sysmap.gif

Then again, putting a plank out on the golden gate bridge and charging a suicide fee would boost the general fund.

Perhaps the Injuns in Nevada will expand their marketing opportunities for their bridge to nowhere...

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap_travel/20070329/capt.4b64414f4ee34bd5a95c88bac95fa884.travel_trip_ grand_canyon_skywalk_ny413.jpg?x=380&y=253&sig=Wqi.5ij_eAo_uzLY7VNCdA--

Bishop
04-10-2007, 5:02 PM
Then again, putting a plank out on the golden gate bridge and charging a suicide fee would boost the general fund.

Awesome. I don't think people would be that reluctant to pay a price when they're going to die anyways... The profits could go towards suicide prevention! :D

CalNRA
04-11-2007, 11:21 AM
Not to mention banning guns doesn't stop people from committing suicide. Just look at the suicide rates in Japan and the Scandinavian countries.

yeah well if it's not done by guns then it's less evil. simple as that. tragic events+guns= evilness, tragic events without guns=statistics.

Res
04-11-2007, 12:07 PM
Kind of reminds me of another statistic

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v652/ResDogDM/Forum%20Images/piratesarecool4.jpg