View Full Version : Wolf vs Tula vs Brown & Silver Bear
tm_jones123
03-07-2012, 8:43 PM
Just that, in 5.56 is one a "better" than the others? Never used steel before & wanted to get some opinions.
sleepercar
03-07-2012, 8:49 PM
Neither. They're all at the very bottom. Well, maybe Silver just a tad ahead of the rest. If your rifle can run it, go for it.
CAL.BAR
03-07-2012, 8:56 PM
Silver seems to have a lower drag coefficient and thus perhaps a bit easier for some rifles to chamger and extract. My HK G36 clone won't feed steelcase reliably, so I'm hoping that the silver will do the trick.
VegasND
03-07-2012, 9:21 PM
If you watch on occasion you can get the 'Silver' for the same or near same price as the others. That's a good time to buy Silver Bear.
Otherwise, buy whichever is cheaper.
jeffrice6
03-07-2012, 9:23 PM
Haven't used it, but have heard good things about Tula.
jokat989
03-07-2012, 9:41 PM
my cmmg ar loves tula
and my 9mm loves silver bear
2shotjoe
03-07-2012, 9:47 PM
gold is the russian high end round
silver bear>brown bear>tula>wolf
iv'e personally never had any problems with any of them through multiple rifles
68Datsun510
03-07-2012, 10:20 PM
All of the above would work just dandy in a Saiga .223, no? :P
FNH5-7
03-07-2012, 10:23 PM
I've had no problems with cheap russian ammo, I've even mixed it in mags with cheap walmart stuff and hi end rounds. My AR's have had no hiccups and as long as the box says "non-corrosive" I will continue to run it. The only downside to cheap Russian ammo that I can imagine is that this ammo will make your AR more dirty, faster, therefore causing you to have to clean more often. If your AR cannot run all .223 ammo and 5.56 ammo reliably I don't know what to tell you. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable owning such a rifle because when ammo get's scarce or if SHTF there will be no room to be picky.
I got a batch of Tula, box says .223 but as I compare it to an American .223 round from walmart side by side, the bullet on the tula round is a bit longer, identical to a 5.56, anyone else notice this?
LikeAllGuns
03-07-2012, 10:26 PM
Da ''BEARS''
email
03-07-2012, 11:05 PM
I've shot many thousands of rounds of 55gr and 62gr silver bear and have yet to have a problem with it.
Accuracy...meh...3 to 4" at 100 out of a heavy bbl
MrPlink
03-07-2012, 11:39 PM
Silver bear runs a bit better over all, but the difference isnt huge. Id swear its a tad cleaner too, but not enough to really matter. Ive run these cheapy rounds in everything, mosin, aks ars, scar etc etc. ive never had an issue, even with my ar. My buddies stag cant run em for crap tho
FNH5-7
03-07-2012, 11:48 PM
Silver bear runs a bit better over all, but the difference isnt huge. Id swear its a tad cleaner too, but not enough to really matter. Ive run these cheapy rounds in everything, mosin, aks ars, scar etc etc. ive never had an issue, even with my ar. My buddies stag cant run em for crap tho
I had a stag that ran them like a charm and rarely cleaned it, if he loves his, he should consider sending it off to have the gas port checked. It could also be an old gas tube that needs to be replaced or just out of spec.
wsmc27
03-08-2012, 8:16 AM
silver bear>brown bear>tula>wolf
iv'e personally never had any problems with any of them through multiple rifles
:iamwithstupid:
:D
'cept I've only run those thru one AR. No probs, no big deal.
rtc111
03-08-2012, 8:30 AM
I shot tula out of my AK, eats em up like candy and pretty accurate
NorCalK9.com
03-08-2012, 8:30 AM
Theres NOTHING wrong with the ammo! My stag wont run it for crap, which sux cause I have over 5k rounds of it. But my saigas love it.
And NO it doesnt leave lacquer in your chamber! Thats a MYTH!
2shotjoe
03-08-2012, 8:33 AM
Theres NOTHING wrong with the ammo! My stag wont run it for crap, which sux cause I have over 5k rounds of it. But my saigas love it.
And NO it doesnt leave lacquer in your chamber! Thats a MYTH!
yup, I got 1000+ rounds of Wolf and I haven't cleaned my chamber yet.
NorCalK9.com
03-08-2012, 8:36 AM
Yes, everyone seems to think that it fouls the chamber and that is so untrue!
Ive shot tens of thousands of rounds of this stuff and its good stuff!
My ar sux though
Yes, everyone seems to think that it fouls the chamber and that is so untrue!
Ive shot tens of thousands of rounds of this stuff and its good stuff!
My ar sux though
The fact that the steel doesn't expand/contract to seal the chamber as well as brass is what leads to excessive chamber fouling. The lacquer is probably not the cause of chamber fouling.
NorCalK9.com
03-08-2012, 9:17 AM
@17+1
Exactly!
lazyH
03-08-2012, 12:22 PM
Ive shot brown and silver bear, when it comes to cheap bulk my AR likes silver the best.
hnoppenberger
03-08-2012, 12:33 PM
I've run a spam can of silver bear through many ar's and it worked great, with OK accuracy. the rest suck, and will make groups comparable to an AK.
Stainned
03-08-2012, 1:49 PM
I could not run any Tula in my bushy. That was until I swapped out the extractor spring and Wolff one. Now it eats it all. Amazing what a $5.00 part can do.
Same goes for my Ruger .22. Hated certain ammo, changed the spring and extractor with a Wolff on and it eats it all.
tula wont run in my ARs but Silver Bear has been 100%. seems like most people have the same experiences.
nastyhabts26
03-08-2012, 4:18 PM
My Yugo SKS loves tula
SURVIVOR619
03-08-2012, 5:22 PM
I have a great time plinking WPA out of my Saiga .223... Haven't shot out of an AR, however. Guess we'll see how quality my AR is though... Safe queen or bad b1tch!
vikingm03
03-08-2012, 7:15 PM
500 rounds of tula 223 out of my ar15 no problem. Since then i have switched to reloading though, getting better accuracy with still no problems. Its even a bit cheaper, just have to put in the time to make the ammo.
Socalman
03-09-2012, 10:24 AM
Shot lots of cheap Russian ammo from the Arsenal 96. It is 7.62X39 and the only problems were with a few boxes of Wolf HP. About one of every 20 would fail to feed corectly. Otherwise, haven't seen much difference in any of the Russian bargain stuff.
NorCalK9.com
03-09-2012, 11:43 AM
Wow ftf 1 In 20? Id get that fixed!
Lifeon2whls
03-09-2012, 12:38 PM
I've used a bunch of the different russian stuff through my SKS, especially Wolf and never had any issues.
That said, it is magnetic...so no going to the local ranges. Does anyone know if Bear or any of the other surplus stuff is non-magnetic? I just picked up some XM193 ammo for my AR but would run the other stuff if it wasnt magnetic.
stix213
03-09-2012, 1:32 PM
Bear ammo FTW!!!! Generally my favorite plinking ammo, though I've stopped buying it for handguns.
SURVIVOR619
03-09-2012, 6:19 PM
Bear ammo FTW!!!! Generally my favorite plinking ammo, though I've stopped buying it for handguns.
"Cleanliness" problem? I've never shot any of the such out of my handguns only becasue I've always had good access to handgun ammo.
I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks, Survivor
Mail Clerk
03-09-2012, 7:12 PM
Just that, in 5.56 is one a "better" than the others? Never used steel before & wanted to get some opinions.
tm_jones123,
If it were my AR-15 I would only shoot Wolf for it's non-corrosive qualities. I don't beleive the others offer the same as Wolf. This is regardles of wether it's steel cased or not. Steel is OK to use....just don't shoot it too fast to heat up the coating. Wolf now has/had a polymer coat on there steel for years so steel should be pretty good.
Mail Clerk
hornswaggled
03-09-2012, 7:25 PM
I never use steel cased ammo, but gotta admit those animal names are sweet!
NorCalK9.com
03-09-2012, 8:00 PM
Can all you who think the coating on steel melts and sticks to your ar's please educate yourself? Its not true! Its an excuse someone fabricated to try and blame the ammo and not the rifle!
jonzer77
03-09-2012, 8:12 PM
Theres NOTHING wrong with the ammo! My stag wont run it for crap, which sux cause I have over 5k rounds of it. But my saigas love it.
And NO it doesnt leave lacquer in your chamber! Thats a MYTH!
It used to but they have changed the coating on the case to fix this. I ran 500 rounds through a spikes upper and they all went bang every time and it was $100/500.
absinthe49
03-09-2012, 9:21 PM
Here's my take on it...
I bought 1000 rounds of wolf .223 back in maybe 2003 for AR. The first 500 rounds went fine. Maybe 3-4 stuck cases for the last 500. At the time... I blamed the lacquer on the cases. I have since heard that the lacquer was never a problem... it is related to the shape of the .223 case (or 5.56). The .223 is a pretty straight-walled case and since the case is steel... it doesn't expand so well like brass does. This supposedly allows carbon and such to make its way into the chamber.
I suppose some people have no problems with their ARs. I would have to disagree with people saying it is the gun... not the ammo. My AR has run like a champ with any factory brass ammo. I had 4 stuck cases in the thousand wolf I ran.
Keep in mind too that the Russian factories that make this stuff probably spent a lot of their histories making 7.62x39 and 5.45×39. It seems that steel cases in these calibers running through AKs does not cause so much of a problem.
From what I have heard, wolf < brown bear < silver bear, although the sliver vs. brown seems to be subjective. Tula seems to be less than or equal to wolf. I have seen corrosion tests (if that is important to you) that shows that the original brown bear with lacquer resisted corrosion the best and the polymer coats are not so great for resistance. Some seem to feel the zinc cases of silver can make a weird white flaky residue when exposed to moisture. Of course... if you keep them in your home and not in an outdoor shed... it is probably a moot point.
I am probably going to stick to brass cases with my ARs and using Silver/Brown bear with my AK. Perhaps your mileage will be different with your AR.
absinthe49
03-09-2012, 9:34 PM
Oh yeah... here is the article describing that it was not that coating that caused the stuck cases on ARs
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm
CAL.BAR
03-14-2012, 7:59 PM
Here's a wierd problem. My SL8/G36 clone WILL NOT cycle the steel case, so I got a bunch of Silver Bear. While it cycles perfectly, the bullets literally TUMBLE out of the barrel. at 15 yards I was getting perfect bullet shapes as though the bullets hit the paper sideways. Of 40 rounds I fired over 30 of them did this. Handed the ammo to my friend who was shooting his AR and it functioned and shot perfect holes in the paper.
WHY?
nicoroshi
03-14-2012, 8:43 PM
Here's a wierd problem. My SL8/G36 clone WILL NOT cycle the steel case, so I got a bunch of Silver Bear. While it cycles perfectly, the bullets literally TUMBLE out of the barrel. at 15 yards I was getting perfect bullet shapes as though the bullets hit the paper sideways. Of 40 rounds I fired over 30 of them did this. Handed the ammo to my friend who was shooting his AR and it functioned and shot perfect holes in the paper.
WHY?
Let me guess.
US made after market barrel?
I had the same issue with my M85 virgin build and WPA which shoots XM193 like a tack driver.
Pulled bullets from both the WPA, and XM193 cases.
WPA=.221"
XM193=.224"
The rifling in my US made barrel for the M85 was not catching the bullet of the WPA enough to stabilize the bullet.
Amazing what .003" will do.
mrjbuddrow
08-13-2012, 2:22 PM
i ran a test between the three a few months back and i love silver bear for plinking. i did an accuracy test, firing/feeding test and also inspected the casing rim for any chomp mark from the extractor pin. brown bear and silver bear shot and etracted fine. the marks on the silver were identical to that of the 5.56 lake city i shoot mainly. brown bears marks on the rim appeared to be scuff more. wolf ammo decided it wanted to lodge itself in my bore. the casing got stuck and i had to punch it out with a cleaning rod. anywho i threw wolf away after offering it to everyone. brown bear was good and it shot okay but silver bear was very impressive. all of the were hp and 55gr i think. i cant remember
guitar-nut
08-13-2012, 3:08 PM
I've not used any of these in 5.56, but I had two bad primers out of a few hundred rounds of Silver Bear 5.45. No problems with Wolf or Tula, but I will not be buying Silver Bear again. It could have been an anomaly, but why risk it?
Lugiahua
08-13-2012, 4:07 PM
I run mostly bear in my SU-16 for training, the only problems I had were broken rims. (requires rod to remove)
I had one about every thousand rounds, but it is acceptable as I don't use steel case for defensive purpose.
Unless running it for life/death situation, I think it is an acceptable failure rate for the price.
DudeDoug2000
08-13-2012, 4:44 PM
I've had no problems with cheap russian ammo, I've even mixed it in mags with cheap walmart stuff and hi end rounds. My AR's have had no hiccups and as long as the box says "non-corrosive" I will continue to run it. The only downside to cheap Russian ammo that I can imagine is that this ammo will make your AR more dirty, faster, therefore causing you to have to clean more often. If your AR cannot run all .223 ammo and 5.56 ammo reliably I don't know what to tell you. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable owning such a rifle because when ammo get's scarce or if SHTF there will be no room to be picky.
I got a batch of Tula, box says .223 but as I compare it to an American .223 round from walmart side by side, the bullet on the tula round is a bit longer, identical to a 5.56, anyone else notice this?
I did the same comparison recently and your right... I compared "green tip" 5.56, TulAmmo .223, Federal .223 and PMC .223. The TulAmmo is bigger seems to be the same size as the 5.56 green tip the PMC .223 while smaller than those two is also larger than the federal. All have ran fine for me.
Mail Clerk
08-13-2012, 6:19 PM
Just that, in 5.56 is one a "better" than the others? Never used steel before & wanted to get some opinions.
tm_jones123,
If I had to shoot any ammo from Russia the only brand I'd use is Wolf. This is only because the box is labeled non-corrosive and my toys cost too much to shoot any other that could cause the bore or any inside part to rust/corrode.
Besides that...my current range won't allow shooting any steel to be shot wether it's steel cored or steel cased. If they spot you shooting it they will take it away from you and then perhaps return it when they know your leaving.:mad:
InkHammer
08-13-2012, 7:02 PM
i ran a test between the three a few months back and i love silver bear for plinking. i did an accuracy test, firing/feeding test and also inspected the casing rim for any chomp mark from the extractor pin. brown bear and silver bear shot and etracted fine. the marks on the silver were identical to that of the 5.56 lake city i shoot mainly. brown bears marks on the rim appeared to be scuff more. wolf ammo decided it wanted to lodge itself in my bore. the casing got stuck and i had to punch it out with a cleaning rod. anywho i threw wolf away after offering it to everyone. brown bear was good and it shot okay but silver bear was very impressive. all of the were hp and 55gr i think. i cant remember
Necrothread Arise!!!! Sweet first post.
Cali-Shooter
08-13-2012, 7:16 PM
I shot tula out of my AK, eats em up like candy and pretty accurate
Tula ammo in any AK or Saiga rifle is like serving it lobster dinner, and tula ammo to an AR-15 is like serving it dog food.
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