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View Full Version : USA Today: "12 states on path to guns with no permits"


Paladin
03-07-2012, 7:48 PM
Whenever CA's anti gun laws and our looong road to Shall Issue get me down (e.g. Gene's recent post suggesting SCOTUS may not decide Carry until 2014 June vs 2013 June), I go over to www.nraila.org to read good news re. Americans' RKBA at the federal level and in other states.

Today I came across this news story posted over there:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-05/drivers-license-gun-permits/53391932/1

A few key quotes:
Legislatures in a dozen states are considering laws that would eliminate requirements that residents obtain permits to carry concealed weapons....

Andrew Arulanandam, policy director for the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, which supports these legislative efforts, argues that crime rates are low in four states — Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and Wyoming — that already allow residents to carry without a permit. "Our viewpoint is, a good person will always be a good person," he said. "They don't need a license to be a good person."...

States that have been or are considering bills in current legislative sessions include Colorado, Iowa, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota and Virgina, according to the NRA. (emphasis added)

CaliforniaLiberal
03-07-2012, 7:57 PM
If/when these laws go into effect, after a couple of years they will provide some valuable data to demonstrate how responsible gun owners can be. Anti-gunners will predict "Blood running in the streets!" and this will prove otherwise.

RKV
03-07-2012, 7:59 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-50r9cwYGfWU/To2XLGncecI/AAAAAAAAAa8/D636VRf-3CI/s1600/image001.png

Rhode Island is the only real surprise in the list. Thanks for posting. Good news!

PCPerks
03-07-2012, 8:17 PM
I read that earlier today and was quite surprised that it was being considered in so many different states. Unfortunately i feel that it would be a battle to see who would be the last state to implement that, and CA would probably win.

bulgron
03-07-2012, 8:48 PM
I read that earlier today and was quite surprised that it was being considered in so many different states. Unfortunately i feel that it would be a battle to see who would be the last state to implement that, and CA would probably win.

Hmmm.... I'll be happy if there's just some way, any way, that I can legally carry a firearm outside my house here in CA at some point in my life.

I swear, if given a chance, they'll drag this thing out for the next 20 or 30 years.

GOEX FFF
03-07-2012, 8:54 PM
I read that earlier today and was quite surprised that it was being considered in so many different states. Unfortunately i feel that it would be a battle to see who would be the last state to implement that, and CA would probably win.

Definitely one of the bottom, right along with NY and NJ but I would think IL would be the very last state ever to go Constitutional carry.
Currently, IL is the very last state in the Nation that has No-Issue.

mag360
03-07-2012, 8:55 PM
time for a happy bubble. Now that is some progressive thinking.

http://priyankapadode.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/happy-bubble.jpg

nick
03-07-2012, 8:57 PM
Didn't SD just pass that law, and it's on their governor to sign it?

Tier One Arms
03-07-2012, 9:00 PM
The more states the better, won't be long now until we go shall issue here in CA.

VegasND
03-07-2012, 9:02 PM
I hope all twelve pass. Maybe even we can have 50 state Constitutional carry some day.


Now, can you guys get on giving some reciprocity with other states?

I hate having to be disarmed in California.

SilverTauron
03-07-2012, 9:50 PM
The Governor of South Dakota should be signing the CC bill any day now.

Insofar as which state would resist change the longest, it is somewhat like predicting the next nuclear reactor accident. Any nuclear facility has the potential for causing a major mess, just like NJ, IL, CA, NY ,HI, MD,D.C., MA, all have the potential to be sticks in the mud regarding the 2nd Amendment.

Were my opinion solicited,I would expect that in 5 years concealed carry reciprocity will be established among the free states quite comprehensively, while those leftist states mentioned above will stand in collective stubborn defiance of the Bill of Rights until Judgement Day. Remember, those places are governed by people who violate the Drug Dealer's edict-do not get high on your own product. Such politicians literally buy into their own hype that they are the guiding light for the WORLD in the view of gun control, and thus believe that the other forty-odd states must be collectively nuts to just allow , gasp, ordinary people to carry guns in public.

Rep. Dan Lundgren said some words I have posted before on this topic;during the HR 822 debate on the House floor he stated that "Illinois stands with us as a sister state and an example of common sense gun control."

That paraphrased quote says all anyone needs to know about the commitment these ignorant cretins have to their failed cause. If the New Jersey Legislature offers Constitutional Carry for a vote, I'm promptly checking my water to make sure it's not become blood. Consulting the window for deadly locusts would be my next task to accomplish immediately thereafter.

Paladin
03-07-2012, 11:02 PM
FWIW, I could easily see ID, MT, UT, WY and possibly a few other states quickly joining these 12 (+ the 4 current Con Carry states). I'm not saying Con Carry will pass all those places on its first try, but I could easily see 25 - 30 states having it within 5 years.

If nothing else, this should be a reminder of how important politics remains -- not everything we want can/will be won thru the fed courts.

IIRC, Gene or Brandon have also stated that getting the NRA's model Castle Doctrine law passed in the states also cannot be achieved via the courts. (The NRA's model CD law applies wherever you legally have a right to be AND includes immunity from civil lawsuits by the BG/his survivors so long as you are not found criminally guilty.)

So, not only do we need a strong NRA (NRA-ILA (lobbying) and NRA-PVF (campaigning)), to get pro-RKBA judges/justices on the federal bench (incl SCOTUS) by getting pro-RKBA folk elected to the US Senate and Presidency, but we also need a strong NRA for many of our other goals as well.

Sure there are disagreements on several important issues (or how to go about achieving them), but without the NRA, we would have been like England or Australia decades ago....

Which reminds me: get the youth into shooting, they're our future. Give NRA Jr or regular NRA memberships as a graduation present. They have different magazines/online versions, for youth too.

Baja Daze
03-08-2012, 2:49 AM
FWIW, I could easily see ID, MT, UT, WY and possibly a few other states quickly joining these 12 (+ the 4 current Con Carry states).

Wyoming is one of the four current States with Constitutional Carry, however it is restricted to only legal residents of Wyoming unlike AZ/AK/VT.

This is a very positive trend, but if Constitutional Carry will be restricted in these States to only the legal residents thereof, we will also need for these States to pass legislation granting universal recognition to all other State permits.

However this double standard of rights for residents vs. non-residents should raise some serious EP issues, maybe this will be covered with the Peterson case? Paging Gray...

PsychGuy274
03-08-2012, 5:22 AM
I know we tried Con Carry over hear last year and it failed in the Dem controlled Senate. AFAIK it's still the same makeup so we'll have to wait and see.

OleCuss
03-08-2012, 5:52 AM
I think people are more discouraged/depressed/cynical/whatever about California than they should be.

The population of California is not nearly as Leftist/fascist as its legislature and governorship. This has been repeatedly demonstrated through the Proposition process where there have been many Leftist measures which have died an ignoble death.

The problem in California is that it is not provided a quality and consistent alternative narrative and slate of candidates. The Republican party has largely abandoned California and the Republican party in California has largely abandoned conservatism.

The net effect is that we tend to get nuts or fairly leftist Republican candidates running - and they either look unacceptably insane or like a warmed-over Democrat. Why vote for the insane? And if you are going to vote for a Leftist, why not vote for the one who is honest about it?

But if the Republican party in California embraced a libertarian stance and trumpeted a devotion to small government, small business, and keeping its nose out of peoples' personal lives - it would be viable. If the Republican party at large launched something like a "Conservative California" project and funded appropriate ads. . . Well, you could have a "right-wing" California in a couple of years.

You could have a California which had great respect for our RKBA and our other civil rights.

But the Republican party would have to get serious about conservatism/libertarianism here in California and put some real effort and funding into it. I'm not counting on that happening.

Kid Stanislaus
03-08-2012, 7:17 PM
I read that earlier today and was quite surprised that it was being considered in so many different states. Unfortunately i feel that it would be a battle to see who would be the last state to implement that, and CA would probably win.

Nope, you can count on New Jersey to come in dead last. ;)

Kid Stanislaus
03-08-2012, 7:19 PM
The more states the better, won't be long now until we go shall issue here in CA.

Right you are, we'll get it sometime within the next 25-30 years!:eek:

Tarn_Helm
03-08-2012, 9:16 PM
Whenever CA's anti gun laws and our looong road to Shall Issue get me down (e.g. Gene's recent post suggesting SCOTUS may not decide Carry until 2014 June vs 2013 June), I go over to www.nraila.org to read good news re. Americans' RKBA at the federal level and in other states.

Today I came across this news story posted over there:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2012-03-05/drivers-license-gun-permits/53391932/1

A few key quotes:
Legislatures in a dozen states are considering laws that would eliminate requirements that residents obtain permits to carry concealed weapons....

Andrew Arulanandam, policy director for the National Rifle Association's Institute for Legislative Action, which supports these legislative efforts, argues that crime rates are low in four states Alaska, Arizona, Vermont and Wyoming that already allow residents to carry without a permit. "Our viewpoint is, a good person will always be a good person," he said. "They don't need a license to be a good person."...

States that have been or are considering bills in current legislative sessions include Colorado, Iowa, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota and Virgina, according to the NRA. (emphasis added)

This is very good news.

Let's hope that everyone here is willing to focus on the Second Amendment in November and engage in single-issue voting that prevents us from getting a president who is likely to add to more justices to the SCOTUS like Sotomayor and Kagan.
:cool:

sandwich
03-11-2012, 5:07 PM
But the Republican party would have to get serious about conservatism/libertarianism here in California and put some real effort and funding into it. I'm not counting on that happening.

Hear! Hear!

Today's Republican party is only a degree different from Democrat party (over minor issues, not the major ones). I applaud Ron Paul for trying to change things from the inside, but he's still fighting an uphill battle. I mean he's doing better this year than 4 years ago so things are more hopeful -- freedom is slowly but surely getting traction.

But until people get serious about personal freedom AND responsibility, I can't see things getting better any time soon. I do my best getting people around me to think more about freedom but just as I didn't change overnight, I don't expect them to change all that quickly...

17+1
03-11-2012, 5:58 PM
This is something to be excited about. I've always thought carry licenses were silly...why do I need a government issued license to exercise my rights?

I hope all these states and more deregulate. :)

Kid Stanislaus
03-11-2012, 6:04 PM
I read that earlier today and was quite surprised that it was being considered in so many different states. Unfortunately i feel that it would be a battle to see who would be the last state to implement that, and CA would probably win.

I'd put my money on New Jersey.;)

vantec08
03-11-2012, 6:55 PM
Hear! Hear!

Today's Republican party is only a degree different from Democrat party (over minor issues, not the major ones). I applaud Ron Paul for trying to change things from the inside, but he's still fighting an uphill battle. I mean he's doing better this year than 4 years ago so things are more hopeful -- freedom is slowly but surely getting traction.

But until people get serious about personal freedom AND responsibility, I can't see things getting better any time soon. I do my best getting people around me to think more about freedom but just as I didn't change overnight, I don't expect them to change all that quickly...


We now have two generations that think freedom means free of responsibility, when we know the opposite is true. But that is what paying people to not be responsible has bought us, so evidently is has been true for them. You dont turn that off overnight and will take at least a couple of decades after the effort has started to clean up society. History doesnt favor us. CA will be dead last, and forced into the changes only when screaming and kicking in a headlock by SCOTUS.

The War Wagon
03-11-2012, 7:11 PM
I'll be happier when all 57 states are on that path. :rolleyes:

HowardW56
03-11-2012, 7:12 PM
I read that earlier today and was quite surprised that it was being considered in so many different states. Unfortunately i feel that it would be a battle to see who would be the last state to implement that, and CA would probably win.New York and New Jersey would be right there too...

ja308
03-11-2012, 8:09 PM
Not sure what some of you guys are talking about regarding the republican party ?
We have worked very hard to eliminate anti gunners from getting elected with a GOP name .

Richard Riordan is a good example of a anti gun republican who was stopped from higher office. Do we have some bad ones ? sure but 90% are are good on RKBA .


What I notice is everyone is ready to bash the gop while the prevailing anti gun democratic party seems to get a pass.

The primaries are the key to getting good candidates. It is a lot more work than typing out a cal-guns post ,but freedom is not all that easy.

yellowfin
03-11-2012, 8:30 PM
But the Republican party would have to get serious about conservatism/libertarianism here in California and put some real effort and funding into it. I'm not counting on that happening.It really seems like the R paty is paid to take a dive, they never seem to want to really win. They don't take the gloves off when they could and hit the other side where it hurts, or at very least not enough to matter.

radioman
03-12-2012, 12:03 AM
The Dodo bird did not die off overnight, nether will the Brady's. but they will die off and have been for a few years now, there membership is under 30,000, there funds are under 4 million dollars. But, they are dying off, and faster all the time. I say by 2015 we will able to list the Brady's with the Dodo bird...

Mulay El Raisuli
03-12-2012, 5:31 AM
I'll be happier when all 57 states are on that path. :rolleyes:


LOL!


The Raisuli

ccmc
03-12-2012, 6:48 AM
I'd put my money on New Jersey.;)

Tough call. A smaller state might be easier to turn around than a large state like CA. There was actually a bill introduced in the NJ legislature last year to make the state shall issue for residents and nonresidents alike as a revenue raiser ie LTCs would cost 500 dollars and have to be renewed every year for that same amount. Don't know whether it came to a vote or not.

proclone1
03-12-2012, 8:02 AM
States that have been or are considering bills in current legislative sessions include Colorado, Iowa, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota and Virgina, according to the NRA. (emphasis added)

Ah good, Colorado's on there. And I'm surprised that South Dakota did not go permitless years ago.

NoJoke
03-12-2012, 8:09 AM
Hmmm.... I'll be happy if there's just some way, any way, that I can legally carry a firearm outside my house here in CA at some point in my life.

I swear, if given a chance, they'll drag this thing out for the next 20 or 30 years.


Lets not allow those who have placed all these horrible restrictions on us to also determine the rate of change.

I'm hoping that some legal muscle power will propel this issue within the year!

:cool:

Akers
03-12-2012, 8:19 AM
I lived in Wyoming for my entire enlistment, and I can tell you from experience of living in other states, like Texas, Oklahoma and California, Wyoming is one of the most peaceful states.

resident-shooter
03-12-2012, 10:04 AM
The day ca becomes a constitutional carry state will be the day I will tell all those cowards who ran away that they suck. It will also be the day long after my retirement LOL

proclone1
03-12-2012, 12:09 PM
The day ca becomes a constitutional carry state will be the day I will tell all those cowards who ran away that they suck. It will also be the day long after my retirement LOL

I'm not running away so much for gun rights, I'm running away because I want to be able to afford a house and not become a slave in the process and live right next to a parking-lot-freeway in the ghetto. When the big earthquake comes and wipes 90% of the people in this state off the map and the housing prices come back in line with reality, then you can tell me I suck :p

resident-shooter
03-12-2012, 10:27 PM
u suck :p

Baja Daze
03-13-2012, 2:12 AM
I'll be happier when all 57 states are on that path. :rolleyes:

LOL!! Is that you Barry?

CZ97B
03-13-2012, 2:22 AM
"States that have been or are considering bills in current legislative sessions include Colorado, Iowa, Georgia, Kentucky, Maine, New Hampshire, Ohio, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota and Virgina, according to the NRA."

The bad news is that California is not yet on this list.

I think Arizona has seen the light. Somebody in the legislature there apparently broke out a copy of the US Constitution including the Bill Of Rights and read it in plain English, and finally got the part about "keep AND bear arms shall not be infringed."

These other states are now following Arizona in their footsteps.

I wonder how long it will take Sacramento to see the light as well? All the criminals and gang bangers here already CCW anyway.

Baja Daze
03-13-2012, 2:39 AM
Last year the Montana legislature passed Constitutional Carry (House Bill 271), however Governor Brian Schweitzer hit it with a VETO! :mad: And Montana has no legislative session this year (2012).

Currently in Montana, permits are only required for concealed carry within the limits of a city or town, thus over 99% of Montana is Constitutional Carry.

I just hope we can convert some of the States mentioned this year and as more States implement Constitutional Carry, the easier it will be to pass this legislation in additional States. This will probably play out like "shall issue" did once people realized the brady bunch hysteria about "blood in the streets" was simply a bogus scare tactic.