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JPShinn
03-07-2012, 12:09 PM
All:

In my home town (SF Bay Area), it is a violation of municipal code to own, possess or shoot any kind of weapon, including a BB or airsoft gun. My son likes to shoot at targets in our backyard with his airsoft gun.

Do any of you know whether such an ordinance has been challenged or whether it is in fact ever enforced?

Thx.
John

Rock6.3
03-07-2012, 12:10 PM
Are you sure about this?

A violation of municipal code to own or possess any kind of weapon?

Rock6.3
03-07-2012, 12:11 PM
Are you sure about this?

A violation of municipal code to own or possess any kind of weapon?

JPShinn
03-07-2012, 12:16 PM
8.32.010 Firing and possession of guns and firearms.

Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, no person shall have in his possession within this city, and no person shall fire or discharge or cause to be fired or discharged within this city, and no parent, guardian or person having the care, custody or control of any minor shall permit such minor to have in his possession within this city or to fire or discharge or cause to be fired or discharged within the city, any firearm, cannon, gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, air rifle, airgun, BB gun or pellet gun or any instrument of any kind, character or description which throws or projects bullets or missiles of any kind to any distance by means of elastic force, air or any explosive substance, all referred to in this section as "firearms." (Ord. 631 § 1 (part), 1978).
8.32.020 Exceptions.

The provisions of section 8.32.010 as to the use of any firearms mentioned therein shall not apply to any of the following cases:

(1) To police, peace officers or persons in military service in the discharge of their duties and using reasonable care;

(2) To persons using firearms in necessary self-defense;

(3) To the possession of such firearms for keeping at the place of residence or business of the person otherwise in lawful possession thereof, or while traveling to or from a legal firing, shooting or target range or hunting ground;

(4) To the discharging or firing of such firearms or causing them to be discharged or fired at a legal firing, shooting or target range or hunting ground;

(5) To the use of a gun firing .22 caliber shot-cartridge only, upon a written permit applied for and granted by the chief of police to protect life or property against animals, birds or rodents. (Ord. 631 § 1 (part), 1978).

JPShinn
03-07-2012, 12:17 PM
"Own" was an incorrect statement on my part, apologies.

bobgengeskahn
03-07-2012, 12:28 PM
I also live in the bay area. My property is very long in one direction and when I was younger we used to play airsoft back there. That was until neighbors called the police who politely informed us that it constituted the discharge of a firearm within city limits and told us to stop. We were young so they didn't do anything except tell us to stop, but the point was pretty clear.

There aren't really any place to play that are close if you're on the peninsula except Sequoia Airsoft, which is fine if you're younger, but its really unprofessional and there are a lot of cheaters which gets annoying if you're an older player.

Usually, growing up, my friends and I would head to the coast and find some unincorporated land to play. Still technically illegal, but the strongest warning we got from the Sheriff was "don't scare the neighbors", of course after they oogled our toys and made sure they were toys. The best part was always the one officer "inspecting" them and the rest of them whispering "dude, those are so cool" :P

Librarian
03-07-2012, 12:39 PM
It's helpful to mention the location, in this case apparently Menlo Park (http://www.codepublishing.com/CA/menlopark/html/MenloPark08/MenloPark0832.html).

See an earlier thread, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=377852 which the OP did post in.

Never heard of a challenge.

Aldemar
03-07-2012, 12:43 PM
8.32.010 Firing and possession of guns and firearms.

Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, no person shall have in his possession within this city, and no person shall fire or discharge or cause to be fired or discharged within this city, and no parent, guardian or person having the care, custody or control of any minor shall permit such minor to have in his possession within this city or to fire or discharge or cause to be fired or discharged within the city, any firearm, cannon, gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, air rifle, airgun, BB gun or pellet gun or any instrument of any kind, character or description which throws or projects bullets or missiles of any kind to any distance by means of elastic force, air or any explosive substance, all referred to in this section as "firearms." (Ord. 631 § 1 (part), 1978).
8.32.020 Exceptions.

The provisions of section 8.32.010 as to the use of any firearms mentioned therein shall not apply to any of the following cases:

(1) To police, peace officers or persons in military service in the discharge of their duties and using reasonable care;

(2) To persons using firearms in necessary self-defense;

(3) To the possession of such firearms for keeping at the place of residence or business of the person otherwise in lawful possession thereof, or while traveling to or from a legal firing, shooting or target range or hunting ground;

(4) To the discharging or firing of such firearms or causing them to be discharged or fired at a legal firing, shooting or target range or hunting ground;

(5) To the use of a gun firing .22 caliber shot-cartridge only, upon a written permit applied for and granted by the chief of police to protect life or property against animals, birds or rodents. (Ord. 631 § 1 (part), 1978).

Can someone please explain how, if you cannot possess a gun in the first place, how exceptions 2, 3 and 4 are even relevant to the law?

I seem to be missing something here, but I live in the LA area.

njineermike
03-07-2012, 12:44 PM
8.32.010 Firing and possession of guns and firearms.

Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, no person shall have in his possession within this city (1), and no person shall fire or discharge or cause to be fired or discharged within this city, and no parent, guardian or person having the care, custody or control of any minor shall permit such minor to have in his possession within this city or to fire or discharge or cause to be fired or discharged within the city, any firearm, cannon, gun, pistol, revolver, rifle, air rifle, airgun, BB gun or pellet gun or any instrument of any kind, character or description which throws or projects bullets or missiles of any kind to any distance by means of elastic force, air or any explosive substance, all referred to in this section as "firearms." (Ord. 631 § 1 (part), 1978).
8.32.020 Exceptions.

The provisions of section 8.32.010 as to the use of any firearms mentioned therein shall not apply to any of the following cases:

(1) To police, peace officers or persons in military service in the discharge of their duties and using reasonable care;

(2) To persons using firearms in necessary self-defense;

(3) To the possession of such firearms for keeping at the place of residence or business of the person otherwise in lawful possession thereof, or while traveling to or from a legal firing, shooting or target range or hunting ground;

(4) To the discharging or firing of such firearms or causing them to be discharged or fired at a legal firing, shooting or target range or hunting ground;

(5) To the use of a gun firing .22 caliber shot-cartridge only, upon a written permit applied for and granted by the chief of police to protect life or property against animals, birds or rodents. (2) (Ord. 631 § 1 (part), 1978).

1: I think they need to re-evaluate the "possesion" law in light of recent SCOTUS rulings unless they want a Gura-esque rectal invasion of epic proportions.

2: What animal posing a life threatening risk would be deterred by a .22 rat shot? And what rodent would one need to be in fear of losing ones life to?

Were these laws written by complete morons?

JPShinn
03-07-2012, 12:47 PM
I had forgotten that I posted in that thread; thanks for the reminder. I raised it here because I purchased an airsoft gun for my son for his birthday last month and he was doing "target practice" in the backyard (not to mention the occasional raging battle amongst 4th/5th grade boys), which incidentally abuts to a creek so there are no neighbors on the back side. I didn't really give it much thought until the wife informed the neighbor was peering over the side fence.

Thx.
John

JPShinn
03-07-2012, 12:48 PM
Can someone please explain how, if you cannot possess a gun in the first place, how exceptions 2, 3 and 4 are even relevant to the law?

I seem to be missing something here, but I live in the LA area.

It's the lovely escape valve you get when you add "Except as otherwise provided in this chapter."

Lawyers make tons of money with just those kinds of phrases...

Aldemar
03-07-2012, 12:54 PM
It's the lovely escape valve you get when you add "Except as otherwise provided in this chapter."

Lawyers make tons of money with just those kinds of phrases...

I love #5 - you can get a permit to shoot little furry things though:eek:

JPShinn
03-07-2012, 12:57 PM
I love #5 - you can get a permit to shoot little furry things though:eek:

But only if it is to protect life or property. See, e.g., the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog.

ldsnet
03-07-2012, 2:34 PM
Wouldn't this entire statute be un-constitutional under CA Pre-emption law dealing with posession or use of a firearm?

quiet-wyatt
03-07-2012, 3:34 PM
Were these laws written by complete morons?

Yes...

Librarian
03-07-2012, 3:38 PM
Wouldn't this entire statute be un-constitutional under CA Pre-emption law dealing with posession or use of a firearm?

Not the firearms pre-emption, which is very narrow, but the imitation firearms pre-emption has some influence.

Government Code
53071.5 By the enforcement of this section, the Legislature occupies the
whole field of regulation of the manufacture, sale, or possession
of imitation firearms, as defined in Section 12550 of the Penal
Code, and that section shall preempt and be exclusive of all
regulations relating to the manufacture, sale, or possession of
imitation firearms, including regulations governing the
manufacture, sale, or possession of BB devices and air rifles
described in Section 16250 of the Penal Code.


Doesn't help on the discharge issue.

See also the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/State_Preemption_of_Some_Gun_Regulation

ETA - nice catch!

seanschevy
03-07-2012, 3:39 PM
Personally, I would just use my airsoft gun n my own property.

Any cop who enforces that is a *****

wurger
03-07-2012, 4:24 PM
It is fairly common for cities to ban shooting airsoft guns. Realistically, unless you are stupid and go to a local park to shoot, you should be OK. I live in "The OC" and you can't legally shoot an airsoft gun anywhere in the county. I shoot mine in the back yard all of the time, and neighborhood kids run around shooting each other daily.

If your kids BBs stay in your yard, you should be OK.

Unless you have a fat, nosy, lesbian, gun hating vegan living next door. Then all bets are off.

vintagearms
03-07-2012, 4:28 PM
Speaking of airsoft, how quiet are the say KSC gas guns ?

Shotgun Man
03-07-2012, 4:39 PM
1: I think they need to re-evaluate the "possesion" law in light of recent SCOTUS rulings unless they want a Gura-esque rectal invasion of epic proportions.

2: What animal posing a life threatening risk would be deterred by a .22 rat shot? And what rodent would one need to be in fear of losing ones life to?

Were these laws written by complete morons?

Property would include crops in your garden. That would be cool if you could get the permit.

Wherryj
03-07-2012, 4:46 PM
1: I think they need to re-evaluate the "possesion" law in light of recent SCOTUS rulings unless they want a Gura-esque rectal invasion of epic proportions.

2: What animal posing a life threatening risk would be deterred by a .22 rat shot? And what rodent would one need to be in fear of losing ones life to?

Were these laws written by complete morons?

The politicians are often influenced by movies that they saw. In this case I'd suspect it was "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"?

http://www.theblackninja.com/images/movie/grail/holy_grail_evil_bunny.jpg

Flopper
03-07-2012, 4:51 PM
Speaking of airsoft, how quiet are the say KSC gas guns ?

They're fairly quiet, but definitely not silent.

Search youtube for "gas blowback airsoft guns" and you'll get an idea of how loud they are.

gatesbox
03-07-2012, 4:56 PM
Calguns Nerf battle in Menlo Park?

wurger
03-07-2012, 5:51 PM
They're fairly quiet, but definitely not silent.

Search youtube for "gas blowback airsoft guns" and you'll get an idea of how loud they are.

Quiet, not. My KWA (US KSC) MP7 is loud. As in, it echoes.

resident-shooter
03-07-2012, 6:48 PM
It is fairly common for cities to ban shooting airsoft guns. Realistically, unless you are stupid and go to a local park to shoot, you should be OK. I live in "The OC" and you can't legally shoot an airsoft gun anywhere in the county. I shoot mine in the back yard all of the time, and neighborhood kids run around shooting each other daily.

If your kids BBs stay in your yard, you should be OK.

Unless you have a fat, nosy, lesbian, gun hating vegan living next door. Then all bets are off.

ROFLZ

JPShinn
03-07-2012, 8:57 PM
The politicians are often influenced by movies that they saw. In this case I'd suspect it was "Monty Python and the Holy Grail"?

http://www.theblackninja.com/images/movie/grail/holy_grail_evil_bunny.jpg

Isn't the answer always the Holy Hand grenade of Antioch?

JPShinn
03-07-2012, 9:02 PM
This is all good advice. I take from it the following:

1. Yes, MP does have an ordinance (as silly as it might seem) against the discharge of airsoft guns within the city limits. That beings said, given that we are using biodegradable pellets, aren't we on the + side of the whacko environmentalists?

2. In reality, it would seem a stretch that it is actually enforced via arrest/prosecution. Query what a punishment might be and whether it is worth testing.

Beyond that, I guess I am left with guessing the air speed velocity of unladen swallows.

huntercf
03-07-2012, 9:31 PM
I had forgotten that I posted in that thread; thanks for the reminder. I raised it here because I purchased an airsoft gun for my son for his birthday last month and he was doing "target practice" in the backyard (not to mention the occasional raging battle amongst 4th/5th grade boys), which incidentally abuts to a creek so there are no neighbors on the back side. I didn't really give it much thought until the wife informed the neighbor was peering over the side fence.

Thx.
John

If the nosy neighbor was breaking the plane between your property and theirs and calls the police ask them (the police) to speak with them about trespassing. Yes, I know it is a stretch but I believe the SCOTUS has ruled that you have an expectation of privacy in your backyard if you have a fence.

tradecraft
03-07-2012, 9:36 PM
Calguns Nerf battle in Menlo Park?

Make it laser tag and I'm in!

When I was younger, I paintballed in a few Atherton/MP/Stanford grassy areas :) The neighbors never complained.

Librarian
03-07-2012, 10:27 PM
2. In reality, it would seem a stretch that it is actually enforced via arrest/prosecution. Query what a punishment might be and whether it is worth testing.

Cities and counties may create only misdemeanors and infractions. In this case, misdemeanor:1.12.010 Penalty for violations.

It is unlawful for any person to violate any provision or to fail to comply with any of the requirements of this code.

(a) Misdemeanor. Except as otherwise provided by this code or state law, any person violating any of the provisions or failing to comply with any of the mandatory requirements of this code is guilty of a misdemeanor. Unless a different penalty is provided by this code, any person convicted of a misdemeanor shall be punishable by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment in the county jail for a period not exceeding six months, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

(b) Infraction. This code provides that violations of Sections 7.04.020, 7.04.030 and 7.04.040 of Chapter 7.04 Garbage and Rubbish Disposal; Chapter 7.30 Smoking, Regulated or Prohibited; 8.06 Noise; 8.07 Leaf Blowers; 8.20 Storage in Yards; 8.40 Open Containers; 8.44 Signs—Public Property/Elections; 11.60 Abandoned, Wrecked, Dismantled or Inoperative Vehicles; 11.62 Repair of Vehicles; and 16.92 Signs—Outdoor Advertising; and Title 9 Animals, except as specifically stated in such Title, are infractions. The gun thing is not listed in the list of infraction chapters.

BRANCHER
03-08-2012, 7:11 AM
Made me check my Towns ordinances

4-1.2 Weapons.3

a. Firearms Possession by Minors. No minor under the age of sixteen (16) years shall possess or use firearms of .22 calibre or greater or air guns except under the direct supervision and control of an adult.

b. Firearms Discharge Restrictions; Exceptions.

1. No person shall discharge any firearm in any public place.

2. Paragraph 1. shall not apply to:

(a) The discharge of firearms otherwise authorized by law;

(b) Any of the persons listed in Penal Code Section 12031(b).

c. Firearms Enforcement Officer. The Danville Police Department shall be responsible for the enforcement of this section.

d. Firearms Ammunition Sale to Minors. No person shall sell or give to any minor under the age of sixteen (16) years any ammunition capable of being used in any firearm, unless the minor is accompanied by a parent, legal guardian or adult authorized by the parent.

3 Editor’s Note: For the statutory provisions regarding the regulations of firearms generally, see Penal Code 467, §§11106 and 12000ff; for the provision that the State has preempted registration and licensing of firearms, see Government Code 9619; for the provisions regarding sale of weapons to children, see Penal Code §§12072 and 12550ff.

The 16 year old thing bothers me (i was under 10 doing it). But then again back then, when riding my dirt bike thru town, the sheriff would pull me over to know when I was riding in case he had to go looking for me and then always yelled "watch out for cars" as I rode off. Ah what 30+ years does to an area. Bummer... and again bummer for our state as well.

CC County as well... and nothing about discharging airguns.

44-4.002 - Firearms—Possession by minors.

No minor under the age of sixteen year shall possess or use firearms of .22 calibre or greater or air guns except under the direct supervision and control of an adult.

(Prior code § 3300: Ord. 603).
44-4.004 - Firearms—Discharge restrictions.

(a)
No person shall discharge any firearm in any public place or adjacent to or in the direction of any public place.
(b)
No person shall discharge any firearm in any private place located in a district zoned residential or commercial.
(c)
Subsections (a) and (b) shall not apply to:
(1)
The discharge of firearms otherwise authorized by law.
(2)
Any of the persons listed in Penal Code Section 12031(b).
(Ord. 92-72 § 2: Ord. 67-44 § 2, 1967: prior code § 3301).

HiveDR.
03-08-2012, 8:09 AM
The way this law is written one could not even use a Nerf gun as they use air to launch a projectile/missile.

It is interesting that a city can come up with it's own definition of "firearm". The state of Ca. and ATF have a very clear definition of what a "firearm" is and BB guns do not meet the definition. If they did, they could only be purchased through an FFL.

I do not seeing this law being able to stand up it court as pertains to BB guns as firearms. Now maybe being charged with C.P.C. 417 Brandishing. But even then........?

Curley Red
03-08-2012, 8:52 AM
See, e.g., the Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog.

It's only a fluffy little bunny rabbit.

Flopper
03-08-2012, 8:59 AM
Quiet, not. My KWA (US KSC) MP7 is loud. As in, it echoes.

I meant in relation to a firearm. They're no louder than an airgun.

Texas Boy
03-08-2012, 10:35 AM
I'd bet San Jose (also in the bay area) has a similar ordinance regarding discharge of just about anything in city limits.....

However....there is a airsoft field within city limits, operated on someones personal property (residential area, though admittedly on the "edge" of the residential area). While taking my son over there I've seen San Jose Police officers dropping their kids off to play there. The outfit is pretty well run, but still has that "backyard" feel. Here is the link - http://www.area48.org/

My personal guess is these types of ordinances are only enforced when someone causes a problem or a complaint is filed. Make friends with your neighbors, keep them happy and maintain a low profile.

SFgiants105
03-08-2012, 10:40 AM
I guess I'll have to register my paper clip and rubber band ;)

It's all about your neighbors.

If they complain enough, the police will enforce it. Keep in mind, the police have better things to do with their time.

Schrodinger's Cat
03-08-2012, 11:08 AM
Concord has the same thing. I used to shoot airsoft and 10-pump BB/Pellet gun back there all the time at my parents house for years, never had a problem. Just don't be an idiot.

BlindRacer
03-08-2012, 11:09 AM
I would be in hog heaven if I could set up an IPSC style course in my backyard for airsoft! I would never come inside.

Come on Ezell! Training is a requirement for firearms, so training with an airsoft that is the same size and weight as it's real counterpart should completely be covered. There's no danger in it, so you'd think this would be an easy one to win back.

I think they need to be seen as training devices more, and less as toys, for something like this to gain traction.

My airsoft has been one of the best training aids I've ever had. And it's practically free to shoot.

FXR
03-08-2012, 3:31 PM
[Snip] Unless you have a fat, nosy, lesbian, gun hating vegan living next door. Then all bets are off.

Plenty of gun owners fit the bolded descriptions. Way to keep Calguns classy.

Paperchasin
03-08-2012, 3:55 PM
Crap, I shoot my paintball gun in my backyard from time to time. Next question is: What if this is done INSIDE your residence?

Librarian
03-08-2012, 4:01 PM
Crap, I shoot my paintball gun in my backyard from time to time. Next question is: What if this is done INSIDE your residence?

You will be exposed only if you hit the inside of street-facing windows...

"No, officer, really, ballistic redecorating is the latest thing!"

anthonyca
03-08-2012, 4:44 PM
I know some guys in San Mateo who were shooting a BB gun in a back yard. The cops came over in force and the gun went away with them. We were at a family party when I heard the story and I never got the whole story but the guy finished with saying that the cops didn't treat it as a joke.

AfisBoy
03-08-2012, 6:11 PM
I would be in hog heaven if I could set up an IPSC style course in my backyard for airsoft! I would never come inside.

Come on Ezell! Training is a requirement for firearms, so training with an airsoft that is the same size and weight as it's real counterpart should completely be covered. There's no danger in it, so you'd think this would be an easy one to win back.

I think they need to be seen as training devices more, and less as toys, for something like this to gain traction.

My airsoft has been one of the best training aids I've ever had. And it's practically free to shoot.


IPSC? Check out these guys

http://www.bamairsoft.com

AfisBoy
03-08-2012, 6:23 PM
It is fairly common for cities to ban shooting airsoft guns. Realistically, unless you are stupid and go to a local park to shoot, you should be OK. I live in "The OC" and you can't legally shoot an airsoft gun anywhere in the county. I shoot mine in the back yard all of the time, and neighborhood kids run around shooting each other daily.


Really, you can't shoot airsoft anywhere in Orange County? That totally sucks. On the weekends I look forward to shooting in my backyard after I put my kid down for a nap. Sounds like I'm gonna have to kiss my neighbor's butts so they don't call the fuzz on me.:)

Nightron
03-08-2012, 11:16 PM
Not the firearms pre-emption, which is very narrow, but the imitation firearms pre-emption has some influence.

Government Code [Referenced.... Post #16 above]

Doesn't help on the discharge issue.

Perhaps one can shoot targets (w/airsoft -- safely, considerately of course), and then "publish" these. Sell them as your created works. Post pics of them on a Blog, whatever.
Should be considered freedom of speech, artistic expression... don't you think:43:

BlindRacer
03-09-2012, 9:21 AM
IPSC? Check out these guys

http://www.bamairsoft.com

Thanks, I've actually been on that sight many times. It's tough though, since I'd love to be able to do that, but can't because of the stupid laws.

I've got a really nice airsoft gun that could be easily modified to these race-gun style of guns. And I'd probably do that if I could should it at my residence.

It's such a great way to practice. I've actually learned more about shooting a handgun with my airsoft than I have actually going to a range. Grip, stance, trigger control, breathing, not flinching, and on and on. Basically all you can't learn with an airsoft, is how to take a quick followup shot, since the recoil is significantly less. Although mine, is pretty close to a 22lr in recoil, so it' not nothing.

I wonder what could be done about these laws. How could they be fought. Is there anyone who has them on their radar? Is is something that may come eventually, or are we stuck with these things?

I see it as a ban on inexpensive training. Ezell speaks right to training as core to the right. Something like this would seem to be covered as well.

Curtis
03-09-2012, 10:17 AM
My city has similar language, but different exceptions. And this was written back in 1965 when the city of incorporated.

9.08.010 Firearm defined.
“Firearm” as used in this chapter includes the following: Cannon, gun, pistol, revolver, automatic pistol, rifle, shotgun, air gun, pellet gun and any other weapon designed to discharge one or more projectiles propelled by the expansion of gas. (Ord. 23, Sec. 1, 1965)

9.08.020 Discharging unlawful.
It is unlawful for any person to shoot or discharge any firearm within the boundaries of the city. (Ord. 23, Sec. 2, 1965)

9.08.030 Exemptions.
The provisions of this chapter shall not apply to the following persons:

(1) Any peace officer or member of the armed services while acting in the lawful discharge of his duties;

(2) Any person using a firearm in the lawful defense of himself, another person or property;

(3) Any person discharging a firearm or causing a firearm to be discharged at an established firing, shooting or target range, or hunting or gun club, or on a properly constructed indoor or outdoor home range when properly approved by the planning commission on private property under his ownership or control;

(4) Any person discharging a firearm or causing a firearm to be discharged in the process of slaughtering cattle, sheep or swine for food purposes;

(5) Any person discharging a firearm or causing a firearm to be discharged in the process of disposing of any animal solely for humane purposes. (Ord. 23, Sec. 3, 1965)

HBrebel
03-09-2012, 11:03 AM
'shall not be infringed'

Gray Peterson
03-09-2012, 11:57 AM
Unless you have a fat, nosy, lesbian, gun hating vegan living next door. Then all bets are off.


Good job on stereotyping gays & lesbians. You wonder why many of them vote against gun owner interests? It's because you're a poor ambassador for gun rights. I also know vegans who own guns for self defense, and the fat thing...really? Have you been to a member council meeting in the last 20 years?

A-J
03-09-2012, 12:48 PM
I didn't really give it much thought until the wife informed the neighbor was peering over the side fence.


I'd be asking said neighbor why they were peeping over the fence.

BlindRacer
03-09-2012, 1:27 PM
I'd be asking said neighbor why they were peeping over the fence.

I'd be very careful about how you'd go about this. I think the best thing to do is be neighborly, and try to befriend them. That way, even if they disagree with what you are doing, they are much less likely to call the cops. They may ask you to stop, but there wouldn't be legal trouble.

AfisBoy
03-09-2012, 8:42 PM
I'd be very careful about how you'd go about this. I think the best thing to do is be neighborly, and try to befriend them. That way, even if they disagree with what you are doing, they are much less likely to call the cops. They may ask you to stop, but there wouldn't be legal trouble.

Fortunately for me, I live next to a drunk that has has no clue on one side, and the other side, that neighbor's kid shoots with me. I'm still questioning that airsoft shooting is illegal in Orange County. I see kids running around with theirs all the time. Maybe no body gives a crud in my neck of the woods.

You could always shoot in your garage out of view of prying eyes. I'd shoot in mine if it wasn't such a mess.

anthonyca
03-09-2012, 11:35 PM
Good job on stereotyping gays & lesbians. You wonder why many of them vote against gun owner interests? It's because you're a poor ambassador for gun rights. I also know vegans who own guns for self defense, :):)?

:):). Nice.

Squid
03-09-2012, 11:49 PM
Hate to admit it, when we were 'kids' we shot at ceramic power pole insulators with BB rifle, peppering it really good on one side, and we were plenty old enough to know better.

Figure the BBs were ricocheting off to somewhere, as were the little chips of ceramic.

LARRYPIRRONE1
03-10-2012, 4:48 AM
I believe the state legislature dominates the entire field of law that applies to the sale, manufatucre posession and use of aire rifles and air pistols and bb guns, air soft and paintball. Mr kevin De Leon has tried via sb 798 to repeal that. it failed to pass last year. he has recently introduced another bill that would allow the city of los angeles to requlate paintball markers. it seems these efforts on the part of De Leon would indicate that cities cannot pass these ordnances yet they do anyway. They need to be challenged.

Midnightblue 72
03-10-2012, 9:49 AM
I will not raise my 19 month old son here, what have we become?

wurger
03-10-2012, 11:55 AM
Fortunately for me, I live next to a drunk that has has no clue on one side, and the other side, that neighbor's kid shoots with me. I'm still questioning that airsoft shooting is illegal in Orange County. I see kids running around with theirs all the time. Maybe no body gives a crud in my neck of the woods.

It is only enforced when an issue arises or someone complains. Kids run around my neighborhood shooting all the time, and I shoot mine in the backyard. I sure wouldn't take an airsoft gun to the park though.

Good job on stereotyping gays & lesbians. You wonder why many of them vote against gun owner interests? It's because you're a poor ambassador for gun rights. I also know vegans who own guns for self defense, and the fat thing...really? Have you been to a member council meeting in the last 20 years?

(post edited to remove unnecessary info). Granted, the majority of lesbians don't exhibit the physical traits and behaviors in my original post. Unfortunately, I have had the dubious pleasure of acquaintance with several who do.

fourXfour
03-10-2012, 4:09 PM
I'm not a big fan of these ordinances, but it doesn't take much of an imagination to know how they came into existence.

I live in an apartment now, so I don't really have much of an interest in buying any air soft. Someday if I can move into a house, shooting an airsoft rifle in my backyard with my kids would be a nice way to transition to shooting.

BlindRacer
03-12-2012, 8:02 AM
I'm not a big fan of these ordinances, but it doesn't take much of an imagination to know how they came into existence.

That's exactly how real gun laws have come to be. They need to stop banning everything, because it's use 'could' be improper. Make a law against the actual act..."Using an airsoft/bb/whatever to purposely damage property...." - Oh wait, there's already a law against purposeful damage of private and public property. Looks like there's no need for another law.

There are tons of lawful uses, and only a few bad apples ruin it for everyone. Just like real gun laws.


When can we start going after lawmakers personally for civil rights infringements? Isn't it something like '1984 something or other?' Civil Rights act maybe? Even things as miniscule as airsoft will eventually be protected under the 2A. And the lawmakers don't care...and they will never care until it hurts them personally for making bad law.

A-J
03-12-2012, 9:45 AM
I'd be very careful about how you'd go about this. I think the best thing to do is be neighborly, and try to befriend them. That way, even if they disagree with what you are doing, they are much less likely to call the cops. They may ask you to stop, but there wouldn't be legal trouble.

Yeah - neighbors can be touchy sometimes. I'm still trying to figure out who called the cops on me about guns (long story).

BlindRacer
03-12-2012, 11:46 AM
Yeah - neighbors can be touchy sometimes. I'm still trying to figure out who called the cops on me about guns (long story).

Oi, sounds like that sucked. Hope everything was in order, and no problems arose.

JPShinn
03-12-2012, 12:47 PM
I'd be asking said neighbor why they were peeping over the fence.

Agreed but said neighbor is often on the receiving end of tennis balls, baseballs, whiffle balls and footballs on his side of the yard... So, I try to be kind.

Wherryj
03-12-2012, 1:54 PM
This is all good advice. I take from it the following:

1. Yes, MP does have an ordinance (as silly as it might seem) against the discharge of airsoft guns within the city limits. That beings said, given that we are using biodegradable pellets, aren't we on the + side of the whacko environmentalists?

2. In reality, it would seem a stretch that it is actually enforced via arrest/prosecution. Query what a punishment might be and whether it is worth testing.

Beyond that, I guess I am left with guessing the air speed velocity of unladen swallows.

African, or European?