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juniortactical
03-06-2012, 2:14 PM
Hey there! I'm new to the forums....i have a ak47 with a folding stock which i added the bullet button and 10 round mags....i've read the overall length must be at least 30" with the stock folded......So...can i add a 5.5" muzzle break without welding it on? The barrel length is slightly over 16"....I'm curiuos to what the exposed thread law is?

Thanks much!!

J

tujungatoes
03-06-2012, 2:40 PM
CA minimum OAL does not require the brake be permanently attached. As long as the barrel length is over the 16" federal minimum you're good to go.

juniortactical
03-06-2012, 3:07 PM
Thanks for the quick response! I'm still confused....! Even with the bullet button, 10 round mag, and the 5.5" muzzle totaling length over 30" with the stock closed, is it illegal in CA to have a threaded barrel? It's listed on the DOJ as an AW....confusing!

thanks for the help!

J

chead
03-06-2012, 3:38 PM
The 30" does NOT have to be permanent.

m03
03-06-2012, 3:45 PM
CA minimum OAL does require the brake be permanently attached.

A critical word was left out of that sentence...

chead
03-06-2012, 3:50 PM
Guys can you please edit your posts before the OP goes and does something silly like welding a brake on?

Freagan
03-06-2012, 3:57 PM
The muzzle brake only has to be permanent to meet the 16 inch legal barrel length, not to meet the 30 inch overall rifle length.

(i.e. if your barrel is already 16 inches, your muzzle brake doesn't have to be permanently attached)

brianm767
03-06-2012, 3:57 PM
Guys can you please edit your posts before the OP goes and does something silly like welding a brake on?

Yes I did mine, sorry I was getting two things messed up, OAL and barrel length.

jokat989
03-06-2012, 4:02 PM
Thanks for the quick response! I'm still confused....! Even with the bullet button, 10 round mag, and the 5.5" muzzle totaling length over 30" with the stock closed, is it illegal in CA to have a threaded barrel? It's listed on the DOJ as an AW....confusing!

thanks for the help!

J

threaded bbl is an evil feature on a handgun, not rifle.

stix213
03-06-2012, 5:02 PM
threaded bbl is an evil feature on a handgun, not rifle.

This ^^^

The only problem with having exposed threads on your rifle is if you damage the threads lol. Get a thread protector or a muzzle device. No need to permanently attach your muzzle device unless otherwise your barrel would be shorter than 16".

cmace22
03-06-2012, 5:12 PM
Hey there! I'm new to the forums....i have a ak47 with a folding stock which i added the bullet button and 10 round mags....i've read the overall length must be at least 30" with the stock folded......So... I added a 5.5" muzzle break without welding it on! The barrel length is slightly over 16"....I'm curiuos to what the exposed thread law is?

Thanks much!!

J

If you live in CA I fixed it for you.

Like the others have said OAL does not need to be permanent, to get a barrel to a legal 16" it does.

Threads on a rifle is a non issue. Plus since you added a barrel extension they are no longer exposed right.

peppermintman
03-06-2012, 5:16 PM
threaded bbl is an evil feature on a handgun, not rifle.

Now I'm confused too, only applies to pistols is that the way it reads. Now does that mean an AK with threaded barrel is ok to not have muzzle break permanately attached? Why do some say it needs to be welded? Or the use of a clip? I don't want weld muzzle break on my AK either

peppermintman
03-06-2012, 5:32 PM
This interesting topic now let's keep it going. Let's not forget to talking about the clocking of the muZzle breaks too. I don't think a barrel extension needs it but I like hearing a rifle barrel 16 inches long not need to be welded

NorCalK9.com
03-06-2012, 5:34 PM
#) inches is 30inches wish i was 30inches lmao!
as long as you barrel is 16in you can tape a bottleopenr to extend the length

panchovillas
03-06-2012, 5:34 PM
Don't weld it, just screw it!!!

brianm767
03-06-2012, 5:34 PM
Now I'm confused too, only applies to pistols is that the way it reads. Now does that mean an AK with threaded barrel is ok to not have muzzle break permanately attached? Why do some say it needs to be welded? Or the use of a clip? I don't want weld muzzle break on my AK either

Only have to permanently attach if barrel is shorter than 16", if a rifle barrel is 16" you can leave attachment off and have exposed threads if you want. Threaded pistol barrel is a no no in Cali.

tujungatoes
03-06-2012, 6:10 PM
A critical word was left out of that sentence...

OOPS!....an important word indeed.:facepalm:

I was on the phone when I posted that. I'm gonna say it was the phones fault...or the co-worker I was about to murder.

juniortactical
03-06-2012, 6:39 PM
Awesome! thanks guys for all the help....screwing it is easier that welding! Any recommendations on the the best muzzle brake to get my 26er to a 30"? i was looking at usmachine guns....?

waddlingweezol
03-06-2012, 7:44 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, so I can have an AK underfolder, without a pinned stock. With a muzzle device long enough to make the rifle 30" overall when folded, and this muzzle device can be installed so that I can remove it at any time I would like? In case I were to go outside CA

lil_jackal
03-06-2012, 8:15 PM
question ! cant you just put a bayonet on as long as its 30 oal ? doesnt have to be permanent so just wondering if that would work so i can fold it :)

cmace22
03-06-2012, 9:16 PM
question ! cant you just put a bayonet on as long as its 30 oal ? doesnt have to be permanent so just wondering if that would work so i can fold it :)

#) inches is 30inches wish i was 30inches lmao!
as long as you barrel is 16in you can tape a bottleopener to extend the length

If taping a bottle opener to the end would work I would assume a bayonet would too :)

lil_jackal
03-06-2012, 9:26 PM
If taping a bottle opener to the end would work I would assume a bayonet would too :)

well i hope your right , now im going to remove that damn little clamp :)

chead
03-07-2012, 6:02 AM
Please correct me if I'm wrong, so I can have an AK underfolder, without a pinned stock. With a muzzle device long enough to make the rifle 30" overall when folded, and this muzzle device can be installed so that I can remove it at any time I would like? In case I were to go outside CA

This is correct.

juniortactical
03-07-2012, 10:43 AM
So is there a differece to what is legal in CA between a muzzle brake or a flash hider? I know i need to add at least 4" to make the OAL 30"......sorry for so many questions!!!!

NYsteveZ
03-07-2012, 10:51 AM
I own a couple underfolders, 100% legal, 100% operational. Very few places can, or will import them to Commufornia. If your in San Diego, go see these guys http://www.directactionsolutions.net/

Merc1138
03-07-2012, 10:51 AM
If taping a bottle opener to the end would work I would assume a bayonet would too :)

It would, and assuming you don't run into a bad apple LEO who pulls a *click* "what bayonet?"(not saying this is even likely to happen), it'd be good to go as long as the places you take it don't mind you having a bayonet attached.

What we need is a tactical bayonet lug mounted bottle opener.

INDABZ
03-07-2012, 11:15 AM
What we need is a tactical bayonet lug mounted bottle opener.

Got one on my Ak but it's only a prototype....

mdimeo
03-07-2012, 11:49 AM
So is there a differece to what is legal in CA between a muzzle brake or a flash hider? I know i need to add at least 4" to make the OAL 30"......sorry for so many questions!!!!

Yes, see the flowchart for a discussion.

But since you already need a bullet button because of your folding stock, you don't need to worry about it for this rifle.

Garay002
03-07-2012, 1:18 PM
Will adding a fake suppressor "extend" the over all barrel length? Most of those suppressor add 6 inches in length. I wanted to get a foldable stock for my AK as well, would be very cool.

SFgiants105
03-07-2012, 1:32 PM
So if the overall length folded is 30", it's good to go, or 30" unfolded?

waddlingweezol
03-07-2012, 1:34 PM
This is correct.

Thank You

chead
03-07-2012, 3:45 PM
So if the overall length folded is 30", it's good to go, or 30" unfolded?

Folded. It needs to meet 30" in the shortest configuration in which it can be fired. The Sub2k is okay because even though it will fit in a backpack when folded, it can't be fired that way. The SU16 needs a "CA" version with a fixed stock because it can be fired when folded.

peppermintman
03-07-2012, 5:42 PM
So is there a differece to what is legal in CA between a muzzle brake or a flash hider? I know i need to add at least 4" to make the OAL 30"......sorry for so many questions!!!!

muzzle brake yes, flash hider no

juniortactical
03-07-2012, 5:49 PM
Thanks!

SFgiants105
03-07-2012, 11:43 PM
Folded. It needs to meet 30" in the shortest configuration in which it can be fired. The Sub2k is okay because even though it will fit in a backpack when folded, it can't be fired that way. The SU16 needs a "CA" version with a fixed stock because it can be fired when folded.

Thanks for the clarification.

SJgunguy24
03-08-2012, 4:42 AM
Thanks for the quick response! I'm still confused....! Even with the bullet button, 10 round mag, and the 5.5" muzzle totaling length over 30" with the stock closed, is it illegal in CA to have a threaded barrel? It's listed on the DOJ as an AW....confusing!

thanks for the help!

J

First off what is listed? If the make and model of your rifle IS listed, then you need a lawyer.


Only have to permanently attach if barrel is shorter than 16", if a rifle barrel is 16" you can leave attachment off and have exposed threads if you want. Threaded pistol barrel is a no no in Cali.

Not true, threaded barrels on pistols are 100% legal with a magazine lock installed.


So is there a differece to what is legal in CA between a muzzle brake or a flash hider? I know i need to add at least 4" to make the OAL 30"......sorry for so many questions!!!!

If you have a mag lock installed the design of the muzzle device is irrelavent.


muzzle brake yes, flash hider no

Mag locked gun, it doesn't matter, featureless then brakes only.

juniortactical
03-08-2012, 7:37 AM
No, the AK is not on the appendix C, nor the other 2 lists....I followed the flowchart, and yes it has a bullet button.....What i've read was that a flash hider was a no no....does having the bullet button cancel out the 30" OAL????? Do i not need to extend my barrel?

J

mdimeo
03-08-2012, 8:49 AM
The SU16 needs a "CA" version with a fixed stock because it can be fired when folded.

The SU16CA model has a folding stock. There's an interlock that prevents the rifle from firing when folded (unlike the SU16A)

I played with one some years back; it's a really cool design. I've considered getting one for a trunk rifle, but couldn't justify the expense.

chead
03-08-2012, 11:19 AM
The SU16CA model has a folding stock. There's an interlock that prevents the rifle from firing when folded (unlike the SU16A)

I played with one some years back; it's a really cool design. I've considered getting one for a trunk rifle, but couldn't justify the expense.

Oh dang I could have sworn the stock was fixed but yeah, if it can't fire when folded it's okay.

tujungatoes
03-08-2012, 11:33 AM
No, the AK is not on the appendix C, nor the other 2 lists....I followed the flowchart, and yes it has a bullet button.....What i've read was that a flash hider was a no no....does having the bullet button cancel out the 30" OAL????? Do i not need to extend my barrel?

J

Use the interactive flowchart. Test your intended configurations there. I know it's kind of murky at first, but do that and read the relevant PC. Pretty soon you'll know exactly what's going on.

SJgunguy24
03-08-2012, 11:29 PM
No, the AK is not on the appendix C, nor the other 2 lists....I followed the flowchart, and yes it has a bullet button.....What i've read was that a flash hider was a no no....does having the bullet button cancel out the 30" OAL????? Do i not need to extend my barrel?

J

The mag lock means your able to have all the evil features you like as long as you make the minimum length requirements.
You can lock the stock or even have a plate hanging off the rear of the receiver as a sling attachment point.

juniortactical
03-09-2012, 12:54 PM
Thanks much!

peppermintman
03-09-2012, 5:01 PM
No, the AK is not on the appendix C, nor the other 2 lists....I followed the flowchart, and yes it has a bullet button.....What i've read was that a flash hider was a no no....does having the bullet button cancel out the 30" OAL????? Do i not need to extend my barrel?

J

Now that's really a question:facepalm:

juniortactical
03-10-2012, 6:21 AM
I figured it out....thanks for the help

LWRCI GUY
11-17-2013, 6:55 AM
Id like to follow up with the CG crew... checking to see if anything has changed or add'd bs verbiage to cal laws affecting under folding, 26" oal collapsed, 16" brl, w/bullet button - romanian ak's? 1971... is stamped assuming thats the production date if it matters (reg. aw b4 dl). I read the flow chart 25x's and come up with 20 different results. Input / clarity much appreciated! Does this (hopefully ca legit romi have to travel in a locked case?

m03
11-17-2013, 6:59 AM
Id like to follow up with the CG crew... checking to see if anything has changed or add'd bs verbiage to cal laws affecting under folding, 26" oal collapsed, 16" brl, w/bullet button - romanian ak's? 1971... is stamped assuming thats the production date if it matters (reg. aw b4 dl). I read the flow chart 25x's and come up with 20 different results. Input / clarity much appreciated! Does this (hopefully ca legit romi have to travel in a locked case?

It needs to be 30" collapsed according to CA law, so you'll need to add a muzzle extension or block the folder mechanism (which is the better and cheaper route, IMHO).

Also, if it has a 1971 date then it's a parts gun, as Romanian imports didn't begin until 1997.

Merc1138
11-17-2013, 7:00 AM
Id like to follow up with the CG crew... checking to see if anything has changed or add'd bs verbiage to cal laws affecting under folding, 26" oal collapsed, 16" brl, w/bullet button - romanian ak's? 1971... is stamped assuming thats the production date if it matters (reg. aw b4 dl). I read the flow chart 25x's and come up with 20 different results. Input / clarity much appreciated! Does this (hopefully ca legit romi have to travel in a locked case?

If you're following the flow chart and coming up with different results, it's because you aren't using it correctly. Applied to the same rifle, and answering the yes/no questions the same way, you will get the same result every time.

Also, you need to meet the 30" OAL in it's shortest shootable configuration. 26" OAL is federal.

morthrane
11-17-2013, 5:12 PM
Will adding a fake suppressor "extend" the over all barrel length? Most of those suppressor add 6 inches in length. I wanted to get a foldable stock for my AK as well, would be very cool.
Important distinction needs to be made here:

The only way to extend BARREL length is to make it permanent. But if you're already at 16" or longer barrel, you don't need to do so for Federal compliance.

A fake suppressor (aka, aluminum cylinder with long hole) will count towards the over-all length for California purposes.

My underfolder has a 5.5" fake suppressor, but the rifle barely clears 30" OAL because there is some overlap between barrel threads and fake suppressor threads.

CRTguns
11-17-2013, 8:36 PM
16" barrel AND 30" oal.

If you have a 16" bbl, and folded it's less than 30" AND can still fire, you have to weld. The rifle cannot be functional at less than 30"

You cannot cherrypick the penal code. Cops and Judges don't care about our interpretation.

nicoroshi
11-17-2013, 9:14 PM
Oh dang I could have sworn the stock was fixed but yeah, if it can't fire when folded it's okay.

Please provide documentation on this if you can.
I want to do this to some underfolders of mine>>>>>

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=569083

This mod that Jeepers came up with would make any underfolder unable to fire at any time when the button was pushed in or stock in any position other than locked open.
I was advised by the Calguns 'legal eagle' that was posed this question that he wouldn't want to be the test case.
I was also in contact with Brandon (Wildhawker) on this to try to locate ANY documentation on the legality of the Kel-Tec in CA but sadly I never heard back on if any was discovered.

If documentation on 'why' the Kel-Tec is CA legal (and hopefully it states that it's because it cannot be fired when folded, and not because the action is disassembled) then this Jeeper's mod would be a viable option.

Personally I am not interested in shooting with the stocks folded (I have AK pistols if I want to shoot an AK unsupported by a stock) but more in storage, and transportation benefits of being able to fold it.

SweetLoutheDuke
11-17-2013, 9:32 PM
No, the AK is not on the appendix C, nor the other 2 lists....I followed the flowchart, and yes it has a bullet button.....What i've read was that a flash hider was a no no....does having the bullet button cancel out the 30" OAL????? Do i not need to extend my barrel?

J
The member above was concerned that your specific AK model was on the banned list. It obviously isn't so here you go:

Flash hider is fine as long as you have a bullet button.

Bullet button does not cancel OAL.

Your rifle must be over 30 inches folded.

Threaded barrel is fine.

Your barrel must be at least 16 inches.

You can use a removable muzzle device to achieve your 30 inch OAL.

However the device has to be permanent if you're trying to achieve a 16" barrel

Most underfolders are around 26" folded so it sounds like you need a substantial device (like the mock suppressors mentioned above) to install.