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View Full Version : Is it legal to buy m16 lower parts kit online?


BlackonBlack
03-03-2012, 10:49 AM
I found a number of websites where people are selling m16 lower parts kits for less than standard new production lower parts kits. Can I buy these kits and throw away the m16 specific parts without being in violation?

MXRider
03-03-2012, 10:54 AM
In CA? No, you can not buy an auto sear.

Outside CA? Yes, it's legal to purchase auto sears in most states if they are registered and you have the appropriate tax stamp. Last RDIAS I saw went for well over $10k though.

As far as the M16 lower parts goes, I don't have an answer for you there.

dachan
03-03-2012, 12:04 PM
Ask the kids burned alive in Waco. BTW, the "M16 parts" will fit in any standard AR receiver.

West9319
03-03-2012, 12:19 PM
BTW, the "M16 parts" will fit in any standard AR receiver.

Cept for the auto sear. AR 15 receivers don't have that 3rd pin hole.

BlackonBlack
03-03-2012, 12:31 PM
You cannot make a standard ar15 select fire with the addition of an m16 lower parts kit.

MXRider
03-03-2012, 12:45 PM
You cannot make a standard ar15 select fire with the addition of an m16 lower parts kit.

Correct, however I would not want to be in possession of an unregistered auto sear.

proclone1
03-03-2012, 2:41 PM
Cept for the auto sear. AR 15 receivers don't have that 3rd pin hole.

My SpikesTac lower has the red pictogram for full auto, I'm pretty sure I'm GTG ;)

freonr22
03-03-2012, 6:03 PM
Sigs have the sear block also

dachan
03-03-2012, 6:04 PM
Cept for the auto sear. AR 15 receivers don't have that 3rd pin hole.

Okay, to clarify, the "M16 parts" will fit in any standard AR receiver after a simple modification. The most notable exception are Colt receivers with the sear block. Also to clarify, personal control of a auto sear and a semi-auto AR is constructive possession and may earn you a visit by the ATF.

Quiet
03-03-2012, 10:37 PM
In additon, under CA laws [PC 16880(b)], mere possession of a select-fire (full-auto/burst) M16/M4 lower parts kit equates to possession of a MG.
Even if the possessor does not possess/own a firearm that the parts can be used in.

Just possessing an auto-sear, with no firearm that can use it, will result in a MG charge under CA laws. [PC 32625]


Penal Code 16880
(a) As used in this part, "machinegun" means any weapon that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can readily be restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(b) The term "machinegun" also includes the frame or receiver of any weapon described in subdivision (a), any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
(c) The term "machinegun" also includes any weapon deemed by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives as readily convertible to a machinegun under Chapter 53 (commencing with Section 5801) of Title 26 of the United States Code.

Colt-45
03-04-2012, 12:18 AM
You cannot make a standard ar15 select fire with the addition of an m16 lower parts kit.

Please elaborate.

m24armorer
03-04-2012, 12:49 AM
Way too much FUD here. Original M16 internal parts are legal. 99% of aftermarket receivers are not machined wide enough or deep enough in the rear trigger well to take the sear. However, installing a M16 hammer, trigger, disconnector and selector will land you in the can. These are original MG parts and not conversion parts. A drop in auto sear IS a conversion part. Just having the 16 parts in your weapon will land you in club FED. The carrier does not matter, the weapon will slam fire even with out the sear.

m24armorer
03-04-2012, 12:53 AM
In additon, under CA laws [PC 16880(b)], mere possession of a select-fire (full-auto/burst) M16/M4 lower parts kit equates to possession of a MG.
Even if the possessor does not possess/own a firearm that the parts can be used in.

Just possessing an auto-sear, with no firearm that can use it, will result in a MG charge under CA laws. [PC 32625]


Penal Code 16880
(a) As used in this part, "machinegun" means any weapon that shoots, is designed to shoot, or can readily be restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.
(b) The term "machinegun" also includes the frame or receiver of any weapon described in subdivision (a), any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of partsd, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combin designed and intendeation of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
(c) The term "machinegun" also includes any weapon deemed by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives as readily convertible to a machinegun under Chapter 53 (commencing with Section 5801) of Title 26 of the United States Code.

M16 parts NO, DIAS Yes.

Pay attention...designed and intended

ReddingShooter
03-05-2016, 12:43 PM
when i had my gun shop down south, i inadvertently ended up with a complete M16 lower parts kit in a deal on a bunch of parts i purchased. fearing that i would get in hot water having the parts in my shop, i contacted a supervising officer at the california DOJ that was our local spot checker and explained to him that i had come into possession of these parts, and i wanted to know the legalities of having the parts in my possession. i was told in no uncertain terms that merely OWNING AND POSSESSING the parts in california, even with owning an AR-15 rifle is perfectly legal, even owning the M16 auto sear itself that comes with the kit is legal. the big no-no is owning a drop in auto sear which is the sear that would be registered. its completely different than having a GI M16 sear as you cant just drop the M16 sear into an AR-15 without machining the lower and drilling the hole for it.......

the illegal part starts when you drill the receiver to accept the sear and pin and route out the pocket in the AR lower

Dezrat
03-05-2016, 1:03 PM
You couldn't "register" an M16 Lower Parts Kit if you tried... DIAS, yes indeed, but they are two completely different things.

ReddingShooter
03-06-2016, 1:22 PM
nope, and unless they changed the laws in california, it isnt illegal to own a complete M16 lower parts kit, including the auto sear as without an M16 lower receiver or a highly modified AR-15 lower receiver, the lower parts it is nothing more than a conversation piece.

Wnick308
03-06-2016, 3:59 PM
Wow, 4 year old thread.

Sent from my SCH-I925 using Tapatalk

dvs762
03-06-2016, 9:27 PM
any M16 lower parts can be easily converted to semi auto with a dremel or a grinder..toss the auto sear if it ships with one..even the selector switch can be used if you grind down the center part that activates the tail of the disconnector. just chop the tail off the disconnector and the notch off the back of the hammer..but so far Ive never received the auto sear with a 16 lower kit...

TurboChrisB
03-07-2016, 9:44 PM
Guys, for clarification. The sear that comes with a M16 lower parts kit is NOT a drop in auto sear.....the sear that comes with the M16 lower parts kit requires drilling a 3rd hole into your lower receiver and THAT would be a felony (drilling the hole) and without drilling that hole you cannot make it function as a select fire rifle.

Unless you procure a drop in auto sear.

Cheezle56
03-07-2016, 11:04 PM
Way to necro post

Bobby Ricigliano
03-07-2016, 11:13 PM
Pew = OK

Pew..Pew...Pew = OK

PewPewPewPew = Not OK

sovereign2b
03-08-2016, 1:32 AM
Way to necro post

Yet, you did.

sovereign2b
03-08-2016, 1:33 AM
Wow, 4 year old thread.

Sent from my SCH-I925 using Tapatalk

I got sucked in by the title, too.

ReddingShooter
10-27-2016, 9:03 AM
OK...just some FYI..

i just spend the last 20 minutes on the phone with 'Derick" at the California Department Of Justice Firearms Division ( 1-916-227-7527 ) on the issue of owning and possessing M16 lower parts kits in California

he said :

drop in auto sear (DIAS) =NO
lightning link = NO
M16 lower receiver = NO
M16 lower parts kit = YES

he said that without extensive modification to the lower receiver of an AR-15 , M16 parts will not fiT, and can not be used to "convert" and AR-15 into a fully automatic machine gun, and he said that the penal code section covering this specifically states "converting", not manufacturing, and he said with the extensive machining needed to make an M16 lower from an AR-15 lower, that that would be classified as manufacturing.

so YES, in the state of california, it is LEGAL to own and M16 lower parts kit AND an AR rifle at the same time, but DONT mill or drill an AR lower to accept it or its your ***!

superhondaz50
10-27-2016, 9:36 AM
Constructive possession still applies at a federal level, please keep that in mind.

gunsmithcats
10-27-2016, 10:42 AM
Nice to know, but unless you get a letter in writing it won't cover you in court.

OK...just some FYI..

i just spend the last 20 minutes on the phone with 'Derick" at the California Department Of Justice Firearms Division ( 1-916-227-7527 ) on the issue of owning and possessing M16 lower parts kits in California

he said :

drop in auto sear (DIAS) =NO
lightning link = NO
M16 lower receiver = NO
M16 lower parts kit = YES

he said that without extensive modification to the lower receiver of an AR-15 , M16 parts will not fiT, and can not be used to "convert" and AR-15 into a fully automatic machine gun, and he said that the penal code section covering this specifically states "converting", not manufacturing, and he said with the extensive machining needed to make an M16 lower from an AR-15 lower, that that would be classified as manufacturing.

so YES, in the state of california, it is LEGAL to own and M16 lower parts kit AND an AR rifle at the same time, but DONT mill or drill an AR lower to accept it or its your ***!

audiophil2
10-27-2016, 11:17 AM
OK...just some FYI..

i just spend the last 20 minutes on the phone with 'Derick" at the California Department Of Justice Firearms Division ( 1-916-227-7527 ) on the issue of owning and possessing M16 lower parts kits in California

he said :

drop in auto sear (DIAS) =NO
lightning link = NO
M16 lower receiver = NO
M16 lower parts kit = YES

he said that without extensive modification to the lower receiver of an AR-15 , M16 parts will not fiT, and can not be used to "convert" and AR-15 into a fully automatic machine gun, and he said that the penal code section covering this specifically states "converting", not manufacturing, and he said with the extensive machining needed to make an M16 lower from an AR-15 lower, that that would be classified as manufacturing.

so YES, in the state of california, it is LEGAL to own and M16 lower parts kit AND an AR rifle at the same time, but DONT mill or drill an AR lower to accept it or its your ***!

Some lowers just need the sear holes drilled. Some need the shelf lowered. Some need the shelf lowered and milled back. Some need extensive milling like colt. I have lowers here that can fit all the full auto parts and a drop in sear with no cutting at all.

dok
10-27-2016, 12:09 PM
Careful it will fire full auto without the sear-slam fire and can do so on an out of battery bolt taking with it human digits ,eyes etc the sear ,drop in or otherwise is a safety feature assuring bolt is in battery.If you want to shoot full auto join a pd,military or rent one at front sight.Parts kits are on sale all the time for 40 bucks with ar semiauto parts.

russ69
10-27-2016, 1:12 PM
Careful it will fire full auto without the sear-slam fire and can do so on an out of battery bolt taking with it human digits ,eyes etc the sear ,drop in or otherwise is a safety feature assuring bolt is in battery...

The cam pin prohibits the firing pin from protruding unless the bolt is cammed into battery. The disconector prohibits the hammer from following the bolt unless held back by the auto sear. The simple trigger reset test will show any problems after installing new trigger parts so things don't go wrong when shooting. Slam fires are very rare in the AR15 and out of battery firing is extremely rare.

dok
10-27-2016, 5:52 PM
The cam pin prohibits the firing pin from protruding unless the bolt is cammed into battery. The disconector prohibits the hammer from following the bolt unless held back by the auto sear. The simple trigger reset test will show any problems after installing new trigger parts so things don't go wrong when shooting. Slam fires are very rare in the AR15 and out of battery firing is extremely rare.

Full auto selector holds down the full auto disconnector and the hammer follows the bolt.With no sear to delay the hammer until the bolt goes into battery premature ignition can and will occur.Not every time but will happen at some point.Facial prosthetics are neither convienient nor cheap.I will not post again but i am sure the info is avaliable on the net.

russ69
10-27-2016, 6:26 PM
Full auto selector holds down the full auto disconnector and the hammer follows the bolt.With no sear to delay the hammer

The firing pin cannot go forward until the bolt locks into place. That is part of the design. The gun would fail the trigger test in your stated configuration so that problem would have to be resolved before firing live ammo.

highpower
10-27-2016, 6:36 PM
Correct, however I would not want to be in possession of an unregistered auto sear.


So much FUD. Let me try and set you straight. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A REGISTERED AUTO SEAR. I defy you to find any serial number on any part of an M16 fire control group. The ONLY restricted part of an M16 is the RECEIVER.

There are items called lightning links that are registered as a NFA item. But, a M16 hammer, trigger, disconnector and hammer trip are totally unregistered parts. I was buying Colt M16 rifle kits that came with every single part except the lower from a genuine Colt M16, it was totally legal and aboveboard.

There was/is nothing illegal about buying, selling or owning these parts on a federal level. Now in Commiefornia and a few other slave states, they may be regulated so the peons can't have them. But in free states they are totally legal to own.

The firing pin cannot go forward until the bolt locks into place. That is part of the design. The gun would fail the trigger test in your stated configuration so that problem would have to be resolved before firing live ammo.

This is true. What makes the hammer strike the firing pin in full auto mode is the hammer trip acts as a sear holding the hammer back and is tripped when the bolt makes it's last fraction of movement forward.

audiophil2
10-28-2016, 5:24 AM
So much FUD. Let me try and set you straight. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A REGISTERED AUTO SEAR. I defy you to find any serial number on any part of an M16 fire control group. The ONLY restricted part of an M16 is the RECEIVER.

There are items called lightning links that are registered as a NFA item. But, a M16 hammer, trigger, disconnector and hammer trip are totally unregistered parts. I was buying Colt M16 rifle kits that came with every single part except the lower from a genuine Colt M16, it was totally legal and aboveboard.

There was/is nothing illegal about buying, selling or owning these parts on a federal level. Now in Commiefornia and a few other slave states, they may be regulated so the peons can't have them. But in free states they are totally legal to own.





Would you care to put some money behind that statement about no such thing as a registered auto sear? My typical wager is a bottle of beer or equivalent.

GM4spd
10-28-2016, 5:29 AM
"Holy negro post" Batman!

superhondaz50
10-28-2016, 6:09 AM
"Holy negro post" Batman!

Ha!

highpower
10-28-2016, 7:03 AM
Would you care to put some money behind that statement about no such thing as a registered auto sear? My typical wager is a bottle of beer or equivalent.

I was speaking about AR's. There are registered auto sears with some other types of weapons, but not with the AR/M16. As I mentioned, there is a device called a lightning link, but that is a aftermarket part that fits in where the hammer trip goes in a standard M16. They are individually registered as an NFA item.

The post I referenced is in regards to the OP's post about M16 parts. Perhaps I should have been more specific, but I thought I was being clear in my post that I was specifically talking about the fire control group in a M16.

audiophil2
10-28-2016, 8:17 AM
I was speaking about AR's. There are registered auto sears with some other types of weapons, but not with the AR/M16. As I mentioned, there is a device called a lightning link, but that is a aftermarket part that fits in where the hammer trip goes in a standard M16. They are individually registered as an NFA item.

The post I referenced is in regards to the OP's post about M16 parts. Perhaps I should have been more specific, but I thought I was being clear in my post that I was specifically talking about the fire control group in a M16.

So you don't want to take the bet?

Spyder
10-28-2016, 8:20 AM
So you don't want to take the bet?

Dibs on half yer winnings.