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View Full Version : SU16CA vs. Flowchart


fxr3
03-03-2012, 8:52 AM
After searching posts and threads- is there any tangible proof that folding stock is not a "evil feature"?
"It's a folding action, gun can't be fired in folded position" in capitol letters is pretty convincing in an internet forum, but I worry won't be so effective face to face with a cop out in the real world. Hope someone can clear this up for me. Thanks

rimfire78
03-03-2012, 8:55 AM
It can't be fired from the closed position.
It's why the SU16C isn't available in CA.

fxr3
03-03-2012, 10:08 AM
Thanks. Now I comprende. Flowchart down to #9. over to (flowcharts) definition of "overall" length- "when gun is in folded or collapsed, shortest configuration".
I guess I am comforted by that. But, the word "length" itself implies The longest distance of a object and "overall"........well you know what I'm saying..........
Is the flowchart a DOJ document? I can't find it on their site? If not, should I still not be concerned with flowchart authors definition of "overall length"?
But, I guess at the end of the day, not many LEO'S will want to confront me with my 30 round pre ban mag dangling off my gun, in the middle of some remote forest, to make sure my gun complies.

chunker
03-03-2012, 10:13 AM
The flow chart is made by calguns...on the right side of the first page it says brought to you by calguns.net =)

resident-shooter
03-03-2012, 10:15 AM
CA model is specifically designed for california. derpa.

Merc1138
03-03-2012, 10:37 AM
Thanks. Now I comprende. Flowchart down to #9. over to (flowcharts) definition of "overall" length- "when gun is in folded or collapsed, shortest configuration".
I guess I am comforted by that. But, the word "length" itself implies The longest distance of a object and "overall"........well you know what I'm saying..........
Is the flowchart a DOJ document? I can't find it on their site? If not, should I still not be concerned with flowchart authors definition of "overall length"?
But, I guess at the end of the day, not many LEO'S will want to confront me with my 30 round pre ban mag dangling off my gun, in the middle of some remote forest, to make sure my gun complies.

Read the entire text of question 9. You're ignoring the second part. "If less than 30 inches, can the rifle be fired in it's shortest configuration". You took the time to look up the flow-chart and read it, that's good, but you're only reading parts of it. There is no confusion at all if you read the entire question.

The CA DOJ will not provide you with a flowchart. They will not tell you what guns are or are not legal. All of the applicable penal codes are listed in the flow-chart, and you can look them up on dozens of websites. You will find that CA's definition of overall length is in it's shortest shootable configuration, not longest(federal is longest). Again, this is why you need to read the entire question on the flow-chart and not just part of it.

I also don't understand where you're getting the idea that "measuring the length" of something specifically means it's longest configuration. You wouldn't call it "measuring the short". Length, width, and height are something you should understand.

fxr3
03-03-2012, 1:02 PM
OK. Merc1138, I'll bite. Your ignoring the first part of #9 text. Overall length is less than 30". The overall length of my gun is more than 30" so the second part is mute. Unless of course you redefine overall length to mean shortest possible configuration.
You also didn't read my post very well, because I said " The word length implies the longest distance of a object" not it's longest configuration, as you wrongly implied I said. And for your last sentence, don't be a dick. And for your second to last sentence, you're right, I wouldn't call it measuring the short, I would have never referred to shortest possible configuration as "overall length.
Link me up to Californias DOJ overall length definition on their site, please, cause I can't find it.

fxr3
03-03-2012, 1:14 PM
I admit, I most always lose these things. And without flowchart and effort and thought put into it, I would be totally lost, so thank whoever for putting so much time into it. But I read # 9 as a flowchart in itself. It contains 2 questions, and because of my definition of 1st. question, I didn't think second question mattered, cause I couldn't pass 1st question, but on second look, thats why there are 2 questions on #9. seems like the words need to be adjusted for dummies like me.

ke6guj
03-03-2012, 1:18 PM
OK. Merc1138, I'll bite. Your ignoring the first part of #9 text. Overall length is less than 30". The overall length of my gun is more than 30" so the second part is mute. Unless of course you redefine overall length to mean shortest possible configuration.
if you look at the yellow box to the right, you can see that, yes, we are defining "overall length" to be shortest possible configuration.


You also didn't read my post very well, because I said " The word length implies the longest distance of a object" not it's longest configuration, as you wrongly implied I said. And for your last sentence, don't be a dick. And for your second to last sentence, you're right, I wouldn't call it measuring the short, I would have never referred to shortest possible configuration as "overall length.
you are trying to mix "common sense" with CA firearms laws. That doesn't always work. PC, CCR, and case law all affect firearms law where it might not match up with common sense.


Link me up to Californias DOJ overall length definition on their site, please, cause I can't find it.it isn't a CADOJ definition that says that you measure extended, it is CA court case law that says so, http://law.justia.com/cases/california/caapp4th/17/1207.html

Merc1138
03-03-2012, 1:31 PM
OK. Merc1138, I'll bite. Your ignoring the first part of #9 text. Overall length is less than 30". The overall length of my gun is more than 30" so the second part is mute. Unless of course you redefine overall length to mean shortest possible configuration.
You also didn't read my post very well, because I said " The word length implies the longest distance of a object" not it's longest configuration, as you wrongly implied I said. And for your last sentence, don't be a dick. And for your second to last sentence, you're right, I wouldn't call it measuring the short, I would have never referred to shortest possible configuration as "overall length.
Link me up to Californias DOJ overall length definition on their site, please, cause I can't find it.

You're telling me not to be a dick, but you're still having serious issues reading what is in front of you.

"length" does not imply the longest distance of an object. Even if it did, that is not relevant as it's only being used to determine the difference from width or height.

The word you're looking for is "moot". The second part of question #9 is not moot, otherwise they would be 2 different questions. As ke6guj pointed out as well(and gave the case for it), CA measures OAL by it's shortest shootable configuration. Because the SU16-CA is not shootable when folded, that is not the measured OAL.

The reason why it's important to pay attention to the entire text and not start making up your own definitions of what length means, is because the SU16-C is NOT legal in CA due to being able to be fired while folded into a length shorter than 30".

It does not contain 2 questions, it contains ONE question with 2 different conditions that must both be met.

You posted a question and I gave you the correct answer, yet I'm a dick because you didn't like the answer that would keep you out of jail? You sure I'm the one being a dick?

Lagduf
03-03-2012, 2:21 PM
CA model is specifically designed for california. derpa.


The SU-16CA is actually a mashup of the SU-16C and SU-16A.

The SU-16A and SU-16B are also legal in California out of the box.

fxr3
03-03-2012, 5:49 PM
I reread flowchart and posted I did and now understood a full half hour before you posted your first lashing, which was unnecessary.
Especially since you misquoted me- "I don't understand where bla bla bla, which you(conveniently)forgot to account for during you second lashing. Instead, preferring to point out " the word your looking for" I had the right word, you just helped me learn to spell it. And the word "length" concerning a object, highlight, right click and decide for your self.
If those are not 2 questions in #9, then they are 2 sentences both followed by question marks.
You care more about showing off than keeping me out of jail. If you want to know the right way to answer my(any)post? read ke6guj
reply. He just answered it, and moved on. I wasted too much of my day with you, but you enjoyed this a little too much,so your probably sad to see it end. So,lash me again on the way out if you want, I won't bother even looking at this post again.

Merc1138
03-03-2012, 6:51 PM
Moot and mute are not the same word, have different meanings, and do not even sound the same. I also didn't mis-quote you, since I didn't quote your post. I paraphrased it. If I were quoting you, I'd have used the [quote] tags.

BTW, if you wasted so much of your time with me(what, 2 minutes maybe to type?) it's your own fault.

Librarian
03-03-2012, 8:26 PM
That's enough and more than enough.

Asked and answered.