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DubCee
03-02-2012, 1:07 PM
I was recently at sharpshooters in Torrance and the guys behind the counter told me that the CA OAL was 26 inches for centerfire, BB, ar-15 type rifles. I kept on insisting on telling them that I thought the OAL was 30 inches. They told me that they sell 26 inch OAL rifles all the time.

Am I wrong? I recently went through great lengths to make my FS2000 30 inches OAL because I didnt want a fake can on it.

benjaminh98
03-02-2012, 1:14 PM
I believe its 26 inches with the butt collapsed

Dynamic
03-02-2012, 1:18 PM
in CA its 30'' in the " smallest " position.

Federal is 26'' in the smallest position.

jchen76@gmail.com
03-02-2012, 1:19 PM
26" rule is for federal.

In California for centerfire rifles it is 30" OAL with butt stock collapsed, applies to OLL's whether BB'd or featureless

26" applies only to rimfire and registered AW's in California.

jchen76@gmail.com
03-02-2012, 1:19 PM
...

Big Ben
03-02-2012, 1:28 PM
Jchen is correct. To be clear, the length is measured in the shortest configuration in which the rifle can be fired, rather than simply w/ the stock collapsed. (Usually the same thing, but not always).

See the flowchart at http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf, specifically steps 1 and 9, which refer to the length. (and step 6, which allows for rimfire exemption for 26" length")

Big Ben
03-02-2012, 1:31 PM
Also, I'm shocked that the local gun shop employees were spreading bad information. /sarcasm

bwiese
03-02-2012, 2:23 PM
Some mix'n'match incorrect information from above.

Here is the Bible:



26" is the Federal and CA standard min. OAL for long guns, except for semiauto centerfire rifles
that are not registered AWs.
.
30" is the CA min. OAL for semiauto centerfire rifles that aren't registered AWs.
.
The 30" min OAL limit does not apply to semiauto RIMFIRE rifles, only the standard 26" limit.
.
The 30" min OAL limit does not apply to registered AWs, just the standard 26" limit.
.
In CALIFORNIA, the min. OAL measurement should be made w/any folding/retractable, etc. stock
measured in the CLOSED position.

This is due to People v. Rooney case. While not fully appealed up the pipeline, one should regard it
as being in force to stay out of trouble.

By contrast, the FEDERAL 26" min. OAL measurement standard for long guns is much more lenient,
and can be made w/any folding/ retractable, etc. stock in the OPEN position. (That is, when folded
the gun may actually be somewhat less than 26".)
.
It may entirely be possible to violate CA AW law and CA SBR law with a fairly 'reasonable' looking gun.

aermotor
03-02-2012, 3:07 PM
</end thread> to avoid useless discussion. Thanks bwiese, is that on the Wiki?

mag360
03-02-2012, 6:47 PM
i think some of the underfolder AK's with a 16" barrel and a bullet button will be less than 30" OAL.

Tempus
03-02-2012, 7:34 PM
i think some of the underfolder AK's with a 16" barrel and a bullet button will be less than 30" OAL.

Same with most/all bullpups - which is why we have to put on huge muzzle breaks or cans.

DubCee
03-04-2012, 11:54 AM
thanks for all your help guys!

Steve1968LS2
03-04-2012, 5:34 PM
This makes perfect sense.. if my AR is 26-inches long I can put it in my pocket and conceal it.. those 4 extra inches makes that impossible.

See, more examples our our politician's forward thinking.

Stonewalker
04-14-2012, 7:10 PM
I know I'm pulling up a month-old thread - but here's a quick question that I haven't yet seen resolved after throwing much google-fu at CGN.

Using a 16" barreled upper, is it possible to accidentally build an AR that is less than 30" OAL using any configuration of normal buttstock + lower. Like, for example, let's consider the MagPul MOE Carbine stock (http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG400/82). Seems like those two parts would wind up being less than 30". Can anyone speak to this? Seems like we would have a lot of accidental felons if it were that easy.

oaklander
04-14-2012, 8:14 PM
I know I'm pulling up a month-old thread - but here's a quick question that I haven't yet seen resolved after throwing much google-fu at CGN.

Using a 16" barreled upper, is it possible to accidentally build an AR that is less than 30" OAL using any configuration of normal buttstock + lower. Like, for example, let's consider the MagPul MOE Carbine stock (http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG400/82). Seems like those two parts would wind up being less than 30". Can anyone speak to this? Seems like we would have a lot of accidental felons if it were that easy.

My AR clone has a 16 inch barrel, and a short fixed "entry" stock. Even with that short FIXED butt stock, the OAL is 30.5 inches. (I measured it).

Uppers are always going to be the same length, by design of the platform. Even a "collapsing stock AR" will usually be more than 30 inches, even with a 16 inch barrel. My XM177 clone was also over 30 inches, even with a 4 position stock collapsed all the way down.

BUT - you should measure the rifle as you put it together, AND if it looks like it will be less than 30 inches, DO NOT ASSEMBLE IT. Just get the rubber extension they sell, then assemble it - but measure again. . .

The mere ACT of assembling a center-fire semi OLL that is shorter than 30 inches, even for a fraction of a second, is a felony, as the laws are currently written.

Capybara
04-14-2012, 8:39 PM
My hair is getting much thinner from being pulled out. Why does California have to be "different" than everyone else on things like this? So ridiculously idiotic.

Sgt Raven
04-14-2012, 8:39 PM
I know I'm pulling up a month-old thread - but here's a quick question that I haven't yet seen resolved after throwing much google-fu at CGN.

Using a 16" barreled upper, is it possible to accidentally build an AR that is less than 30" OAL using any configuration of normal buttstock + lower. Like, for example, let's consider the MagPul MOE Carbine stock (http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG400/82). Seems like those two parts would wind up being less than 30". Can anyone speak to this? Seems like we would have a lot of accidental felons if it were that easy.

An AR pattern Rifle with a MilSpec Carbine Receiver Extension tube and a plain 16' barrel with no muzzle devise is 30.5" with the buttstock removed and the RE by itself. IDK how much shorter a pistol receiver extension is, so that might be under the 30" length.

The Para Ordnance TTR Rifle with it's folding stock needs a longer muzzle devise to get it over the 30" length, but it doesn't need to be permanently attached, or it needs the folding stock disabled.

Stonewalker
04-14-2012, 8:48 PM
My AR clone has a 16 inch barrel, and a short fixed "entry" stock. Even with that short FIXED butt stock, the OAL is 30.5 inches. (I measured it).

Uppers are always going to be the same length, by design of the platform. Even a "collapsing stock AR" will usually be more than 30 inches, even with a 16 inch barrel. My XM177 clone was also over 30 inches, even with a 4 position stock collapsed all the way down.

BUT - you should measure the rifle as you put it together, AND if it looks like it will be less than 30 inches, DO NOT ASSEMBLE IT. Just get the rubber extension they sell, then assemble it - but measure again. . .

The mere ACT of assembling a center-fire semi OLL that is shorter than 30 inches, even for a fraction of a second, is a felony, as the laws are currently written.

Thanks for the additional clarification and explanation of the law.

An AR pattern Rifle with a MilSpec Carbine Receiver Extension tube and a plain 16' barrel with no muzzle devise is 30.5" with the buttstock removed. IDK how much shorter a pistol receiver extension is, so that might be under the 30" length.

The Para Ordnance TTR Rifle with it's folding stock needs a longer muzzle devise to get it over the 30" length, but it doesn't need to be permanently attached, or it needs the folding stock disabled.

This is the kind of thing I was looking for. I googled for about 20 minutes and was not able to come up with a these definitions, can you point me toward a source (either print or web) where I can do some further reading on standards and specifications?

Sgt Raven
04-15-2012, 12:15 AM
I just know these from selling Rifles at Gun Shows for a big FFL. I measured some Rifles so I could explain why they were legal, the way they were.