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View Full Version : Out of state Intrafamily off-list hand gun transfer


RSC510
03-02-2012, 1:10 AM
First off, I've done a bunch of snooping, reading, and investigating prior to posting here and am totally appreciative of all the expert advice available. Great site.

That being said, my question is: Would my father need to do a FTF transfer at a CA FFL to gift me a non rostered handgun? Or would he be able to ship it (from himself, not an FFL in his state) to the CA FFL?

Also, what are the involved costs for intrafamily handgun transfers? and are they subject to the 10 day DOJ hold and backgrounds?

I apologize ahead of time if this information is available in another forum. I'm sure I overlooked it if it is. Thanks for any and all responses.

Librarian
03-02-2012, 12:11 PM
First off, I've done a bunch of snooping, reading, and investigating prior to posting here and am totally appreciative of all the expert advice available. Great site.

That being said, my question is: Would my father need to do a FTF transfer at a CA FFL to gift me a non rostered handgun? Or would he be able to ship it (from himself, not an FFL in his state) to the CA FFL?

Also, what are the involved costs for intrafamily handgun transfers? and are they subject to the 10 day DOJ hold and backgrounds?

I apologize ahead of time if this information is available in another forum. I'm sure I overlooked it if it is. Thanks for any and all responses.

Interstate transfer requires the FFL, as you note; when the gun goes to an FFL, all the requirements apply - fee, 10-day wait, HSC, safe-handling demo, etc.

In-person at the FFL works; shipped, from whom the gun comes is up to the FFL. It is LEGAL for a non-FFL to send it, but some have business practices that do not accept shipments from private individuals.

RSC510
03-02-2012, 9:26 PM
Thanks for the response. That gives me a good idea on how to talk with the FFLs in my area. Much appreciated.

nickyrr
03-03-2012, 3:53 AM
Interstate transfer requires the FFL, as you note; when the gun goes to an FFL, all the requirements apply - fee, 10-day wait, HSC, safe-handling demo, etc.

In-person at the FFL works; shipped, from whom the gun comes is up to the FFL. It is LEGAL for a non-FFL to send it, but some have business practices that do not accept shipments from private individuals.

If the OPs dad end up travelling in CA, and considering the off roster is CA gun compliant i.e. 10 round magazine, non- threaded barrel and all the other illegal stuff. Can the dad just dropped it off himself at a CA ffl and do the transfer there ftf?

kemasa
03-03-2012, 9:32 AM
Yes, the Dad can drop it off personally at the FFL or it can be shipped, with the approval of the FFL.

echoarms
04-13-2012, 12:25 PM
How is the DROS processed if the father ships it directly? Is there a bequeathment option? I am waiting for my Cal DOJ approval and have not had access to the DROS software yet.

kemasa
04-13-2012, 1:55 PM
It would be transferred as exempt. I was told to put SB15 as the exemption, but I think you can also mark it as an intrafamilial transfer. The CA DOJ actually tells you how to do this.

halifax
04-13-2012, 2:36 PM
It would be transferred as exempt. I was told to put SB15 as the exemption, but I think you can also mark it as an intrafamilial transfer. The CA DOJ actually tells you how to do this.

The comments box on the firearm description page only allows 12 characters. That is why I only put "SB15 Exempt" in it. It has worked about a dozen times now.

Librarian
04-13-2012, 6:06 PM
? Is there a bequeathment option?

2 things: a bequest requires that the giver be deceased; and, neither Feds nor CA require an FFL for transfer of a firearm as part of distributing an estate, so the DROS software will not have anything.

See also the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Inheriting_firearms,_both_within_California_and_In terstate

mw20
04-18-2012, 12:16 PM
This is from the FAQ page from the CA DOJ website.

Can I give a firearm to my adult child? Can he/she give it back to me later?

Yes, as long as the adult child receiving the firearm is not in a prohibited category, pdf and the firearm is a legal firearm to possess, the transfer of a firearm between a parent and child or a grandparent and grandchild is exempt from the dealer transfer requirement. However, if the firearm is a handgun, you must submit a Report of Operation of Law or Intra-Familial Handgun Transaction, pdf and $19 fee to the DOJ within 30 days. Assault weapons may not be transferred in this fashion. See Penal Code section 12285, subdivision (b).

http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs#5

It seems to say that a intrafamiliar transfer does not require a DROS be submitted. It doesn't specifically state if their are special rules if the gun is coming from out of state, but I don't think it would be any different. And for handguns it would seem that the receiver would need to fill out the intrafamiliar transfer form and pay the $19. Am I not understanding this correctly? I would be interested to know as I am an FFL, but have not had an intrafamiliar transfer come through my doors yet.

Thanks,

kemasa
04-18-2012, 12:29 PM
It seems to say that a intrafamiliar transfer does not require a DROS be submitted. It doesn't specifically state if their are special rules if the gun is coming from out of state, but I don't think it would be any different. And for handguns it would seem that the receiver would need to fill out the intrafamiliar transfer form and pay the $19. Am I not understanding this correctly? I would be interested to know as I am an FFL, but have not had an intrafamiliar transfer come through my doors yet.


There is CA law and then there is Federal law and you need to follow both. So it is different.

Under Federal law, if the firearm is being transferred between residents of different states, it has to go through a FFL in the state of the person receiving it.

If both people are residents of CA and qualify under the Intrafamilial transfer, then yes, the receiver would fill out the form and send it in.

It seems to me that intrafamilial transfers from out of state are rare, although I have done some. If you ask the DOJ, some of the people there have been reported to say that only the form needs to be filled out and they ignore the Federal aspect, which is wrong. They should know enough to say that you also have to check the Federal law.

RSC510
04-18-2012, 12:56 PM
So here is a kicker,

What about transferring more than one gun from a family member located out of state at one time? Is that doable, like with PPT which allows for multiple guns to be transferred without the 30 day wait period, or does the same ruling apply to intrafamily as does FFL purchased weapons?

Thanks to everyone contributing thus far. This has been a great (and steep) learning curve for me.

Librarian
04-18-2012, 1:19 PM
So here is a kicker,

What about transferring more than one gun from a family member located out of state at one time? Is that doable, like with PPT which allows for multiple guns to be transferred without the 30 day wait period, or does the same ruling apply to intrafamily as does FFL purchased weapons?

Thanks to everyone contributing thus far. This has been a great (and steep) learning curve for me.

Intrafamilial remains exempt from the handgun 1-in-30, even when forced to run through an FFL by the Fed's requirement. Same deal as Roster-exempt.

See also the Calguns Foundation Wiki articles on

Intrafamilial transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_Firearms_Among_Some_Family_Members

Interstate transfer - http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Transferring_firearms_Interstate

kemasa
04-18-2012, 2:45 PM
I called, just to check on it, and was told that the FFL should use the return to owner button for Intrafamilial transfers (a bit strange, but that bypasses the 1 in 30).

mw20
04-18-2012, 3:16 PM
There is CA law and then there is Federal law and you need to follow both. So it is different.

Under Federal law, if the firearm is being transferred between residents of different states, it has to go through a FFL in the state of the person receiving it.

If both people are residents of CA and qualify under the Intrafamilial transfer, then yes, the receiver would fill out the form and send it in.

It seems to me that intrafamilial transfers from out of state are rare, although I have done some. If you ask the DOJ, some of the people there have been reported to say that only the form needs to be filled out and they ignore the Federal aspect, which is wrong. They should know enough to say that you also have to check the Federal law.

Thanks so much for that info. Makes total sense.

echoarms
05-10-2012, 9:55 AM
So after reading much, my customer wants to get two of his fathers shotguns. He can ship them directly to me, I don't need to DROS. But I do need to meet federal needs so he should fill out a 4473 and I call it in for back ground check?

Can someone double check my understanding?

kemasa
05-10-2012, 3:08 PM
I think that if the firearms go through you, you need to DROS them, as well as the 4473.

Librarian
05-10-2012, 3:51 PM
So after reading much, my customer wants to get two of his fathers shotguns. He can ship them directly to me, I don't need to DROS. But I do need to meet federal needs so he should fill out a 4473 and I call it in for back ground check?

Can someone double check my understanding?

Yes, you do have to DROS the guns.

The feds require that interstate transfer uses an FFL in the receiver's state. Once it gets to that FFL, he follows all regular state and federal laws that govern gun sales/transfers.

California would be very surprised if you did not use DROS ...

UNLESS, of course, Father happens to have passed on. Then, no FFL required for inheritance.