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View Full Version : If I was a gunsmith would I need a FFL


ARRRR-15
04-06-2007, 12:01 PM
to work on someones complete gun? I know getting a job at a dealer/FFL holder would work, but what if I wanted to work from home. Would I have a better chance at getting a FFL if I was a gunsmith?

Josh
04-06-2007, 12:03 PM
yes.

No.

ARRRR-15
04-06-2007, 12:19 PM
yes.

No.


Thanks.

Are you sure you didn't mix up the answers?:)

bwiese
04-06-2007, 1:32 PM
to work on someones complete gun?

Without FFL you could not accept guns for work while owner is away, as that would violate 12081 "infrequent loan" provisions, and there's likely some Fed BATF stuff in there too.

I know getting a job at a dealer/FFL holder would work, but what if I wanted to work from home. Would I have a better chance at getting a FFL if I was a gunsmith?

There is a chance you might be able to get a manufacturing FFL instead of a dealer FFL - which'd mean you can't sell guns to folks, but you could accept them and release them when done. You'd also need some sort of DOJ permit.

Regardless of whether you're retailing guns or not, these licenses/permits may not be issued unless you're appropriately zoned for business - often difficult in a residential area.

ARRRR-15
04-06-2007, 2:04 PM
Thanks Bill. I'll look into a manufactures FFL and maybe sub leasing out of a building in a business district.

JHC
04-06-2007, 4:09 PM
Without FFL you could not accept guns for work while owner is away, as that would violate 12081 "infrequent loan" provisions, and there's likely some Fed BATF stuff in there too.



I'm glad this was brought up, I recently had a discussion with a fellow gunowner/garage gunsmith who was under the impression that it was ok for people to leave their receivers with him and have him assemble offlist rifles on them. I was sure that the owner had to stay with their receiver and said as much but couldn't find the section of the law to back it up.

Mayby on the list of Bill's FAQs this should be mentioned to avoid having fellow Calgunners get in trouble from not knowing any better, especially with all the offlist receivers floating around.

radioactivelego
04-06-2007, 4:10 PM
It depends on how the DOJ or ATF feels that day.

bwiese
04-06-2007, 10:15 PM
I'm glad this was brought up, I recently had a discussion with a fellow gunowner/garage gunsmith who was under the impression that it was ok for people to leave their receivers with him and have him assemble offlist rifles on them. I was sure that the owner had to stay with their receiver and said as much but couldn't find the section of the law to back it up.

Maybe one incidence could be legal, but once pay comes into play, I think any "personal borrowing" stuff goes out window. Repeated occurrences (i.e, as a biz, even part-time) would throw that 'infrequent loan' out the window.

Feds don't like folks doing gunsmithing without an FFL, either.

EOD Guy
04-07-2007, 8:42 AM
to work on someones complete gun? I know getting a job at a dealer/FFL holder would work, but what if I wanted to work from home. Would I have a better chance at getting a FFL if I was a gunsmith?

Here is the BATF answer:

(I1) Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms?

Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer. See Item 16, “Federal Excise Tax” in the General Information section of this publication.

[27 CFR 478.11]

xenophobe
04-07-2007, 9:16 AM
I'm glad this was brought up, I recently had a discussion with a fellow gunowner/garage gunsmith who was under the impression that it was ok for people to leave their receivers with him and have him assemble offlist rifles on them. I was sure that the owner had to stay with their receiver and said as much but couldn't find the section of the law to back it up.

Building up receivers into complete rifles by an individual for profit is manufacturing and would require payment of excise taxes as well.

Any individual my buy a receiver and complete a rifle out of it, but anyone in the business of doing so must have at least a FFL 01 or 07 and log the firearms as being built and collecting excise taxes on each build, or in the case of small shop who do less than 50 firearms per year, are exempt until they hit that 50th firearm, and then must pay excise tax on all of them.

PIRATE14
04-07-2007, 9:17 AM
Feds don't like folks doing gunsmithing without an FFL, either.

They don't like it all and have come down very hard across the board on these types of operations......:(

PIRATE14
04-07-2007, 9:20 AM
Building up receivers into complete rifles by an individual for profit is manufacturing and would require payment of excise taxes as well.

Any individual my buy a receiver and complete a rifle out of it, but anyone in the business of doing so must have at least a FFL 01 or 07 and log the firearms as being built and collecting excise taxes on each build, or in the case of small shop who do less than 50 firearms per year, are exempt until they hit that 50th firearm, and then must pay excise tax on all of them.

This is an area bwtn gunsmithing and manufacturing and depending on who you talk to at the ATF, you'll get different answers, however if you are doing some work, you'd better have an FFL of some type or they will shut you down..........