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View Full Version : PWS MK116 vs DDM4V4


calif 15-22
02-29-2012, 2:30 PM
So on my lunch hour I went to the local shop ready to put a DDM4V4 into jail. Did a ton of research that basically said "best mid tier AR". Local price $1,595 (probably could be had cheaper online but I like to give the local guys my $'s)
https://danieldefense.com/rifles/daniel-defense-m4-carbine-v4.html

Anyway . . . They guy says "for $100 more you can get this" and hands me a PWS MK116. Now I realize the PWS is piston and the DDM4 is gas, but putting that aside the PWS looked awesome. Uber cool machined quad rail and slick flash suppressor. Very light

http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=173

Anyway I can't find a whole lot on PWS and what I can find is mostly positve.

So if it was your choice which would you choose.

crazychinaman
02-29-2012, 3:00 PM
I have one of their piston setup on a ASA side charging handle upper,16 inch SS fluted barrell.It run great .No problems at all. Also with a pws muzzle break.

wsmc27
02-29-2012, 4:12 PM
DD is "mid tier" this week??

:confused:

bighead
02-29-2012, 4:44 PM
LOL at tier anything.

bighead
02-29-2012, 4:46 PM
Forgot to answer the question, I like the idea of a piston for that price, either way you will be happy.

HK Dave
02-29-2012, 4:50 PM
I'd get the DD any day of the week... even if the PWS was cheaper.

But then again at $1600 I'd just get a Larue PredatAR. ;P

RONIN.
02-29-2012, 5:02 PM
Ok without starting the HUGE piston vs DI debate.. I will say this, a piston may run cleaner, cooler, blah blah blah.. whatever.. I would still go for the DD. better barrel, uses standard AR parts as in a gas tube, that can be had ANYWHERE.. not saying the piston system is bad, but what if.. as when everyone asks should i buy x or z i always look at it from my stand point..


or you could ASSEMBLE an AMAZING ar for 1600 bucks

when asked on the subject a famous instructor told me this once.. "the f117 doesn't have pistons, nor does my ar.. aks get pistons.."

calif 15-22
02-29-2012, 5:16 PM
I shouldn't have second guessed my original DD purchase. I'm going with the DD tomorrow and not going to look back.

I did think about assembling but as this will be my first, I'm going with fully assembled from DD

Thanks for all the input . . .

calif 15-22
02-29-2012, 5:19 PM
DD is "mid tier" this week??

:confused:

Just quoting 2 of the local shops i use. I'm learning as i go.

Outta Control
02-29-2012, 5:21 PM
I've met the owner of PWS, great guy and let us burn through his ammo on their 308 version. I can say is their long stroke piston works great on 308.

jpm804
02-29-2012, 5:59 PM
I am bias but my first AR which I got last month was a DDM4V4 and love it. Dont regret the purchase, shoots great outta the box and great fit & finish.

Two trips out to the range and couple hundred rounds through it with no issues...

But $1,595 is that OTD price? Seems a little high... I'm all for buying local, but I got mine from my local guy for $1355 OTD..

MrPlink
02-29-2012, 6:20 PM
those are closer to upper 3/4 tier.
If you want true mid tier you need a M&P or franken built BCM rifle.
:D

(Im a "piston guy" but only when it comes to guns designed for them, so I would go with DD)

HK Dave
02-29-2012, 9:54 PM
Don't listen to the person "selling" you the gun.

DD is absolutely top notch. It is considered absolutely top "tier".

Beyond the level of DD, you need to get into custom and exotic type ARs.

Keep in mind, gun shops make different money on different items. And when they have crap sitting around that doesn't sell and some new guys comes along... well SELL IT TO HIM shoot.

Anyone that tells you DD is not absolute quality is full of S***.

Veggie
02-29-2012, 11:34 PM
Daniel Defense has military contracts. They are definitely high quality.

Dhena81
03-01-2012, 12:00 AM
OP where do you live that you have to pay so much for your DD. BTW the DD is a great weapon I don't know much about the PWS but like you said I've never really heard anything bad about it.

bomb_on_bus
03-01-2012, 7:52 AM
Daniel Defense has military contracts. They are definitely high quality.

I always thought it was the lowest bidder who got the military contracts.


And anything Mil-spec or tier anything doesnt matter.

They are both equal guns on many aspects so it comes down to what you want in the end. If I were to choose I would go after the DD.

calif 15-22
03-01-2012, 8:29 AM
OP where do you live that you have to pay so much for your DD. BTW the DD is a great weapon I don't know much about the PWS but like you said I've never really heard anything bad about it.

I'm in the SF Bay Area (Mountain View to be exact). There are really only 2 shops locally that have any decent selection of black rifles. There is one close that charges full MSRP and has a very large selection of .223 and .308 from entry to top of the line. I've bought 3 guns there and I know I paid more but the service is good and I like to support the local shop. The other shop has ALL top of the line stuff. LMT, Noveske and the like. Lowest priced gun there is $1600. I believe they cater to guys building their own, as they have tons of specialize barrels and uppers and such. Great shop.

I know I could get it much cheaper onliine and have it shipped to FFL, or build one even cheaper but for me, I want a complete gun from original mfg with warranty and a brick and motar shop to take it to for service and accessories.

Also I should clarify when I said "mid tier" I was referring to pricing not quality or any other specs. What I was referring to is the "mid tier" being $1,000- $1,500, lower tier being less than $1,000 and top tier being $1500 to $2000.

I don't want to outgrow a M&P Sport but don't need a Noveske SS Barrel either.

Thanks for all the input. Did a ton of reading last night and I'm going to "pull the trigger" on the DDM4V4 today.

ZX-10R
03-01-2012, 10:31 AM
DD tier 2? Calguns is laughable.

HK Dave
03-01-2012, 10:33 AM
Hey OP, tell us... what do you think the DD can do that your M&P can't?

SoCalSig1911
03-01-2012, 12:31 PM
Hey OP, tell us... what do you think the DD can do that your M&P can't?

It can survive the Daniel Defense torture test!

calif 15-22
03-01-2012, 2:09 PM
Hey OP, tell us... what do you think the DD can do that your M&P can't?

Shoot .223 ammo :) My M&P is a 15-22 Great gun. but a .22lr. Just looking for the big brother.

It can survive the Daniel Defense torture test!

I really liked the helicopter drop test. :eek:

I really need to learn the lingo better. I now understand Tier = Quality. So DD is Top Tier for sure (not mid tier as I quoted).

What I meant in original post by "Mid Tier" was dollars (not quality). I should have clarified that.

romeo26
03-01-2012, 2:24 PM
pws...its the ak of the ar world...or the most like it atleast!

gun505
03-01-2012, 3:34 PM
I have a DD, I picked it because I liked the feel of there omega rails. But got mine for
1199 ODT! My lucky day at Turners.

jpm804
03-01-2012, 7:01 PM
I'm in the SF Bay Area (Mountain View to be exact). There are really only 2 shops locally that have any decent selection of black rifles. There is one close that charges full MSRP and has a very large selection of .223 and .308 from entry to top of the line. I've bought 3 guns there and I know I paid more but the service is good and I like to support the local shop. The other shop has ALL top of the line stuff. LMT, Noveske and the like. Lowest priced gun there is $1600. I believe they cater to guys building their own, as they have tons of specialize barrels and uppers and such. Great shop.

I know I could get it much cheaper onliine and have it shipped to FFL, or build one even cheaper but for me, I want a complete gun from original mfg with warranty and a brick and motar shop to take it to for service and accessories.

Also I should clarify when I said "mid tier" I was referring to pricing not quality or any other specs. What I was referring to is the "mid tier" being $1,000- $1,500, lower tier being less than $1,000 and top tier being $1500 to $2000.

I don't want to outgrow a M&P Sport but don't need a Noveske SS Barrel either.

Thanks for all the input. Did a ton of reading last night and I'm going to "pull the trigger" on the DDM4V4 today.

If you havent bought it yet...my local guy is in san jose and has the best prices I think on DD stuff here in the bay area.

I think he has the DDm4V4 in stock also and priced better than where your getting it at now.. he is also vendor here on calguns so you are supporting a local guy and calguns vendor.. MParms

Pm me if you have some questions.. would love to save you some money if i can..

calif 15-22
03-01-2012, 7:25 PM
Update for all:

After all the input that my local dealer's price was too high, I did some searching here in the vendor forums and found Mt Pleasant Arms. A couple of emails later I'm all set on a DDM4 V4. Buy on Saturday then wait for 10 days.

Special thanks to Jon (jpm804) for the PM also pointing me to MPARMS.

Thanks to all for the input (both positive and for the good natured ribbing about tiers :facepalm:)

Now off to look at magazines, eotechs and magnifiers

Thanks guys . . .

wurger
03-01-2012, 7:34 PM
That was a pretty high price for the DD V4. I paid just over $1500 at Riflegear with a MIAD, Vortex FH, 4 10/30 PMAGs, DROS, and tax.

Javi
03-01-2012, 8:09 PM
Update for all:

After all the input that my local dealer's price was too high, I did some searching here in the vendor forums and found Mt Pleasant Arms. A couple of emails later I'm all set on a DDM4 V4. Buy on Saturday then wait for 10 days.

Special thanks to Jon (jpm804) for the PM also pointing me to MPARMS.

Thanks to all for the input (both positive and for the good natured ribbing about tiers :facepalm:)

Now off to look at magazines, eotechs and magnifiers

Thanks guys . . .
How much did you pay before DROS & tax?

HK Dave
03-01-2012, 8:56 PM
Oh you have a m&p 22. Makes sense that you'd want the DD then.

LOL at the dealer, shouldn't have tried to change your mind, they would have got a sale. dumdums.

pyro3k2
03-02-2012, 12:00 AM
PWS and DD both make great products, but they aren't exactly the same rifle (very close) but not the same. As stated before: not to bring up the piston vs DI debate but it's compairing a piston to a DI rifle and it will eventually need to be mentioned.

All said and done if it was my money and up to me, I would buy which ever one I got the better deal on. You can't go wrong with either rifle.