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SuperSet
02-29-2012, 1:46 PM
While I was researching the new VersaMax Tactical shotgun, I saw this comment and couldn't help but think... is there a generational difference among gun owners? Those who embrace tactical items vs. the old schoolers?

Take a look at Jere Smith's comment:

http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/01/new-remington-versa-max-tactical-shotgun

Merc1138
02-29-2012, 1:54 PM
I read that comment and couldn't help but think the person who posted that comment is an idiot.

If he wants to rely on an old SxS or OU for home defense, good for him. If he can't accept that ergonomics have changed and some people actually like pistol grips, too damn bad.

If you're thinking that there is some 20-40, 41-60, 61+ group difference regarding tastes in guns, probably but I don't think it's really a bluntly ignorant as that one particular commenter. It's likely more along the lines of people being familiar with what they grew up with. Just because something has a picatinny rail section for a flashlight doesn't mean the person with that gun is going to be the guy at the public range shooting off of a bench rest in a plate carrier covered in mag pouches doing his owl head swivel "Search and assess" he saw in a magpul video.

russ69
02-29-2012, 6:36 PM
... is there a generational difference among gun owners? Those who embrace tactical items vs. the old schoolers?

It's not generational but some groups are less accepting than others.

CAL.BAR
02-29-2012, 6:59 PM
Sure it's generational. My generation got to walk into Turners and buy Uzi's, AK47's, HK's and all the hi-cap mags we wanted, while your generation is left to toil over BB's, radlocks and 10 rd mags (lol)

ojisan
02-29-2012, 8:12 PM
^ That's mean.
Funny, but mean.
:oji: :D

On topic: yup, there's some old codgers who are intimidated by all the new stuff, 'cause it took them forever to figure out the old stuff.

BucDan
02-29-2012, 8:32 PM
Phew, thought this was going to be a discussion of tacticool and basic.

The War Wagon
02-29-2012, 8:43 PM
Consider the source - Field & Stream?!?! Does anybody other than 60+ year old barbers subscribe to it? Does anyone OTHER, than 60+ year old customers of barber shops READ it?!?! :oji:

SuperSet
02-29-2012, 8:44 PM
Good comments, guys. I've run into my fair share of Jim Zumbos who poo poo anything that doesn't have a wood stock and a hunting purpose. I worry that those types of individuals will be among those that'll side with the Antis, come a new AWB.

russ69
02-29-2012, 9:26 PM
Consider the source - Field & Stream?!?! Does anybody other than 60+ year old barbers subscribe to it? Does anyone OTHER, than 60+ year old customers of barber shops READ it?!?! :oji:

Hey, that's a little too close to my age to be funny. It's not age related, most of the big machine gun collectors are older. Times are moving forward and the AR15 is by far the most popular rifle ever. There will always be guys that don't like black rifles, they really don't have a good reason but us EBR guys out number the other guys by a large margin.

CBlacksheep
02-29-2012, 9:47 PM
My first memory of a gun store was going to Turner's in San Berdoo with my dad and getting to hold a Steyr AUG. The next time we went, I asked my dad where the 'alien gun' was. I was too small to have the ban explained to me, but needless to say I was less than pleased. As far as generational gaps are concerned, I don't think there are any. I just think it's preference.

Rob454
02-29-2012, 9:53 PM
I think older guys sometimes tend to be more fuddy duddy about guns. Just like anything else they are used to a certain rifle/gun style and anything else is just too strange/out of place for them so they instantly have aversion to using it or giving it a chance. I think its just a they are used to a style of gun. i think a lot of them have never gotten a chance to even try a "tactical"gun. My BIL shot one of my ARs and it was his first ever. And it took a while for me to get him to try it

i mean when i was young my parents did not understand why I did the s*8t i did to my truck or my stuff or the music I liked to hear.

george223
02-29-2012, 10:05 PM
I think some of you missed the point. Trapper Vic was commenting on what he preferred for hunting, auto loader vs double barrel. Not self defense. However, he missed the point also since the video was about a tactical auto-loader. For me, my $199 Remington 870 Express w/ an 18.5" barrel is about as tactical as I want to get with a shotgun. Bought it 20 years ago. Not sure what they go for now.

A previous poster mentioned preference for a pistol grip. For me, not on a shotgun. Hurts too much.

Not sure if I have this remembered correctly but I seem to recall Field & Stream supporting Clinton's AWB back in 1994. Haven't looked at their magazine since.

NorCalRedneck
02-29-2012, 11:25 PM
I think its like older people that want nothing to do with computers. They didn't grow up with them so they figure they don't need them if they've got along just fine all this time without one. My uncle still doesn't have a cell phone. And although my grandma has a cell phone now she absolutely will have nothing to do with computers. She won't even touch one.

Same thing with guns. A lot of older guys don't want to embrace the newer stuff because they didn't grow up with it and got along just fine without them.

DCF
02-29-2012, 11:45 PM
Older generation gets to buy and play with cool stuff. Newer generation gets to play with endless Glock, XD and M&P with 10 rds mags, magazine disconnect and warnings on the gun... We do get different sizes of backstrap though.

joelogic
02-29-2012, 11:46 PM
Its easy to be afraid of technology and change. But, yes, there are generational differences. Wood vs. Plastic is a good one.

llamatrnr
03-01-2012, 12:30 AM
Let's visit on this... I'm 66, been shooting 50 yrs. Single shot bolt Remington for shooting rats at the dump and a bolt-action .243 for woodchucks.

Remington 760 (pump) in .280 for deer. I still have my Rem 580, which I use to send squirrels to their reward. Later traded for same rifle in .308

Never used a scope until talked into it 15 yrs. ago. It's a mile from my house to the mailbox, and I would shoot a minimum of 5 squirrels on the round trip. The day I mounted the scope I took a shot out the passenger window, well, almost the window, and put a round through the windowsill :taz: of my pickup. Took the scope off and never looked back.

Also had a single-shot 12 ga. and .22 revolver for snakes, skunks, etc.

Fast-forward to 18 months ago when a horse broke my back and I had way too much free time and discovered two things: Calguns and Boston T. Party's Gun Bible.

Understand that I'm most certainly from the "wood and steel" era, and scoffed a bit at the black rifles that looked, to me, like something from the Mattell Toy Co.

Having never handled, much less shot, anything semi-auto, I bought a Marlin 795 just for the hell of it and to see what all the fuss was about. Okay, I get it...

One thing leads to another, so a Saiga was next (they're cheap, tough & ubiquitous) but it's got wood.

Now, with one (step)son in SF and the other (I can't say) I'm thinking I should learn the AR platform, with an M-4 in my future, because, at 66, I see this country going downhill like a snowball headed for hell, and want to be prepared with the most efficient, effective, ubiquitous protection available to me, so will go with their advice.

I bought Glocks, not for aesthetics, but for durability, simplicity, ease of parts (half the moving parts of a 911) and it took a few hundred rounds to get right with it (It's always been revolvers for me, from .22/.38.45) Quick reloads, carrying capacity, etc., and an LCR for "New York reload", plus it can be fired from the pocket.

Sorry to be so long-winded (I belong to a support group called "onanonanon") but wanted to say that an old dog can be taught new tricks, and lasers, lights, scopes and semi-autos make perfect sense, although my favorites are the wood & steels still.

Good night.

alfred1222
03-01-2012, 12:33 AM
I agree with alot thats been said above, its a generational thing. the older guys got to live without all there BS laws that the younger guys have to deal with, and they dont like the change from old school to tacticool

dieselpower
03-01-2012, 6:04 AM
Good comments, guys. I've run into my fair share of Jim Zumbos who poo poo anything that doesn't have a wood stock and a hunting purpose. I worry that those types of individuals will be among those that'll side with the Antis, come a new AWB.

Thats exactly who tosses us under the bus every time. I meet them daily. Hunters both young and old, who believe the 2nd amendment was written to protect hunting, not self-defense, nor armed conflict against an occupying force. Some of them even believe semiautomatics should only be used by Police.

redcliff
03-01-2012, 6:55 AM
Its not generational, its preference and exposure. Some people like football, others prefer soccer. Neither is wrong. Some people prefer regular stocked shotguns for their fast handling versus pistol grip stocked ones. I certainly wouldnt want to face a good shooter with a double barrel shotgun loaded with buckshot, I'd be shot just as dead as if he had a Benelli M4. One only needs to watch some cowboy action shooting to see how lethal those weapons are.

Many of us older dudes have handled, owned and/or fired "tactical" weapons that you younger guys can only dream of, even in a free state. So you younger guys are not "enlightened" versus the older generations. Just as their are younger guys not into firearms, there are older guys who aren't either.

We were able to buy new, imported semi-auto high capacity firearms made on the same assembly lines as the full auto variants. No American made receivers or homebuilt receivers assembled with used parts kits. There was a time when M-16 parts were sold on one table at gun shows and drop-in auto sears were sold on the next table, same with silencer tubes and silencer internals. Importation restrictions and other laws changed the landscape of what was available over the years, to the detriment of us all.

By the way, I actually like reading Field and Stream for their hunting and fishing tips and stories. I just don't read it for it's opinions on tactical firearms.

Wicked Pete
03-01-2012, 7:18 AM
Let me tell about those old farts: the blood gets thick and doesn't make it to the brian. I mean...
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac5/fig99a/fourwheelwalker.jpg

aklon
03-01-2012, 9:49 AM
Us "older guys" bought our tactical gear some time ago, so now we concentrate on appreciating fine firearms while we keep it ready to go.

Us "older guys" have had decades to collect all the goodies we want, and just because you see one of us "older guys" shooting a fine 1911 - the same gun every time you see us - it only means you're not seeing the safe at home.

The truth is, preferences change over time depending on what you already have. As for me, I have to park my .45/70 Browning Mod. 1886 next to three ARs.

DannyInSoCal
03-01-2012, 9:52 AM
Funny -

I'm actually looking at wood stock kits for my AR10 build...

Barabas
03-01-2012, 12:28 PM
Blah, blah, blah. If everyone would spend more time shooting and less time worrying about what everyone else is shooting, they might have something useful to contribute. If something doesn't work for you, good on you for figuring that out, but your experiences don't always equate to someone else's circumstances.

Less poo-poo, more pew-pew.

DannyInSoCal
03-01-2012, 7:43 PM
Blah, blah, blah. If everyone would spend more time shooting and less time worrying about what everyone else is shooting, they might have something useful to contribute. If something doesn't work for you, good on you for figuring that out, but your experiences don't always equate to someone else's circumstances.

Less poo-poo, more pew-pew.

I bet you're a fun guy to hang out with...

waho
03-01-2012, 9:36 PM
Being one of the old farts here let me point out a few things. First we are not afraid of computers otherwise we wouldn't be here, we use them at work and play. Second some of us also had an interruption in our lives where we learned all about black guns. Some of us also developed an appreciation for for a finely turned wooden stock as opposed to all of the plastic ones that are the current rage. The only time that I got some grief about shooting my black gun was from a guy younger than me, he thought we should all be shooting C/R's. I really don't care what you shoot as long as you do it safely.

32dEgReEs
03-01-2012, 10:21 PM
I'm 26 and was brought up shooting shotguns and rifles my Grandfather taught my father with. I personally love the feel of a firearm made from wood and steel. Best gun I ever had the pleasure of shooting was my Uncle's 1911 he got from his father who served in WWII. That says a lot considering the last few years I lived in Kansas I had the pleasure of shooting everything from your typical ARs and AKs to your suppressed machine guns. There is just something about the feel when shooting a firearm that isn't made with composites.

bruceflinch
03-01-2012, 10:32 PM
Here's what the ol' cuss said:
"from Jere Smith wrote 5 weeks 2 days ago
I am happy with my 2 870's 12 & 16 ga. I have no use for the phony "Tactical" crap. Or the phoney "wannabe's who never served in any capacity dressing up in BDU's playing at being soldiers, they would wet their panties if they had to face a 13 year old Taliban with a rusty AK."

I thought that was kinda funny from an ol' fart perspective. :D

To each his own! I like almost all the Untacticool & tacticool stuff.

Highlands858
03-01-2012, 10:43 PM
Different people perceive different things as being cool. I like guns that I can shoot fast while doing reload and malfunction drills. That kind of fits my fast-paced personality.

I have a friend who likes to shoot precision rifles and reload his own ammo. He's the kind of guy who likes to take his to make the right decision, so that fits his personality.

Same thing with more traditional guns versus more modern guns. I can appreciate a bit of history along with the latest and greatest. If I owned a Garand you wouldn't see me rapid-firing or doing reload drills with it, but you can bet every last dollar that I'd spend way more time off-range with that Garand than I would with an AR or AK.

ckprax
03-02-2012, 11:06 AM
I am a young guy (24) and I have a great appreciation for wood and steel firearms. I was raised shooting bolt action rifles, pump shotguns and revolvers. To me the plastic semi-autos are amazing tools and there are many that I want but I will collect more "traditional" guns.

Barabas
03-02-2012, 2:03 PM
I bet you're a fun guy to hang out with...

I'm much more fun in person than on the internet. My sense of humor is more obvious when given context.

That said, my blah, blah, blah was directed towards the comments in the link given by the OP, nothing here on CGN. Folks here tend to be less grumpy about someone else's choices and preferences. It's one thing to say "that doesn't work for me" and another thing entirely to say "You're stupid for liking that." One is objective observation, the other is a personal attack.

I'm weary of the internet commandos calling everyone else stupid for expressing their preferences.

llamatrnr
03-02-2012, 2:36 PM
I'm much more fun in person than on the internet. My sense of humor is more obvious when given context.

That said, my blah, blah, blah was directed towards the comments in the link given by the OP, nothing here on CGN. Folks here tend to be less grumpy about someone else's choices and preferences. It's one thing to say "that doesn't work for me" and another thing entirely to say "You're stupid for liking that." One is objective observation, the other is a personal attack.

I'm weary of the internet commandos calling everyone else stupid for expressing their preferences.


Well, that's sure a stupid thing to say! :D

Barabas
03-02-2012, 4:04 PM
Well, that's sure a stupid thing to say! :D

Oh you! Don't you have a llama to go kiss, grandpa? ;)

cbaer5
03-02-2012, 4:17 PM
thats like saying we dont need a maxim. well that was a game changer wasin't it.

Merc1138
03-02-2012, 4:31 PM
thats like saying we dont need a maxim. well that was a game changer wasin't it.

Opened new markets.

http://i.qkme.me/7fz8.jpg

Peter W Bush
03-02-2012, 4:45 PM
Hey I'm in my mid 20s and like O/Us more than semis lol. It's not always the 65 year old grumpy geezer. I'm an grumpy old geezer and I'm 24. Damn kids these days, with their generalizations and their pants hanging off their a** :p

xibunkrlilkidsx
03-02-2012, 6:16 PM
old people dont change...

cbaer5
03-02-2012, 6:18 PM
Opened new markets.

http://i.qkme.me/7fz8.jpg

darn I have that guy, stupid TV

GMG
03-02-2012, 7:10 PM
Let me tell about those old farts: the blood gets thick and doesn't make it to the brian. I mean...
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac5/fig99a/fourwheelwalker.jpg

Thanks for the pic Pete, always wondered what you really looked like.:oji:

joefrank64k
03-03-2012, 10:07 PM
Funny -

I'm actually looking at wood stock kits for my AR10 build...

No kidding...I got a wood stock set for my CETME that came with black furniture.

mag360
03-03-2012, 10:30 PM
my 89 year old grand father went from "what the heck do you need an AK for" to "what! They banned an M1 carbine with a folding stock?" after exlaining the CA AWB.

CDFingers
03-04-2012, 6:55 AM
llamatrnr, that was a great post. Onandonanon. Gonna steal that. ;-)

I'm also an old fart. I love to shoot black rifles and pistols that belong to friends, but my tastes tend to wood, and to bolt and lever guns and revolvers. I have yet to get a shot gun, which explains why I'm totally bad at shooting my son's at clay birds. Embarrassing. Some day I'll get one.

I dunno: as far as tacti-cool goes, if I'm attacked in my home by more than twelve zombies, I'm dead meat. A six shot .357 and a speed loader is all I've got for PD. I fear my cats in the dark to trip over more than any zombies.

Shooting stuff is fun. It is a fact that at the range, frequently I'm attacked viciously by 2 liter bottles of water. Man, they don't have a chance against my old school tech. I even hit a clay bird with my .22 semi auto target pistol while it lurked on the ground. Orange juice jugs tremble at the sound of my name. Yep: shooting stuff is fun no matter what guns you use.

CDFingers

cannon
03-04-2012, 8:41 AM
It may be generational, in a way.

I grew up on M1 Garands and carbines, Colt 1911's and revolvers, Remington bolt action rifles etc. That is what there was and you enjoy what there is and either branch out or not.

I branched but some of my friends didn't.

Snoopy47
03-04-2012, 10:22 AM
I’d like to mention a difference I see as well.

Those that like “guns” verses those that like “shooting”.

Those with 20 guns with maybe 100 rounds through each and another one in jail, and those with 5 guns with 10,000 rounds through each, and another 1,000 rounds prepped for reloading.

I like learning more about shooting than I do guns.

I could likely afford a gun every 3 months, but nope, I can't, I spend it on ammo.

resident-shooter
03-04-2012, 11:20 AM
Polymer VS steel :)

toby
03-04-2012, 11:26 AM
Good comments, guys. I've run into my fair share of Jim Zumbos who poo poo anything that doesn't have a wood stock and a hunting purpose. I worry that those types of individuals will be among those that'll side with the Antis, come a new AWB.

REALLY? c-mon

Roach_Infinity
03-04-2012, 11:31 AM
Consider the source - Field & Stream?!?! Does anybody other than 60+ year old barbers subscribe to it? Does anyone OTHER, than 60+ year old customers of barber shops READ it?!?! :oji:

Take that back!

My dad took me fishing too much when I was little, and further insisted on forcing me to go when I was growing up, one time we were on a vacation in Mammoth, CA. and went to one or other of the lakes, I can't remember which, and I wandered off by myself and did something really stupid. I had my favorite lure of all time, which I never actually cast for fear of losing it, and I decided to side cast and forgot to flip the bail on my spinning reel. Lure zings out, and zings right back and hooks me in the lower lip. Unfortunately for me, this lure was a 1oz silver Kastmaster with a huge, uncrimped trebel hook on it. Needless to say I was an unhappy 11 year old.

My Dad took pity on me and we packed up and went back into town and found an open "Sports medicine clinic." The on staff Doc, after he got done laughing at me, pulled an old copy of Field & Stream out of his enormous collection of back-issues, and found an article with a technique from removing a barbed hook from oneself.

The 11 year old me is quite offended that you would disparage such a fine example of responsible sports journalism!

-Eric

golfrj
03-04-2012, 11:32 AM
I think its like older people that want nothing to do with computers. They didn't grow up with them so they figure they don't need them if they've got along just fine all this time without one. My uncle still doesn't have a cell phone. And although my grandma has a cell phone now she absolutely will have nothing to do with computers. She won't even touch one.

Same thing with guns. A lot of older guys don't want to embrace the newer stuff because they didn't grow up with it and got along just fine without them.

What He Said, BUT, how is it that I (as an Really older guy) is Responding to this Post? You cannot group OUR (Gun) people by Generation, you Can in fact group them by Preference and Use of weapon.. How many times have you seen folks at the Trap Range Struggling with Tactical type shotguns (Not designed for that use, But if you want to try, Have Fun).. Same applies to Rifles and Pistols as long as you Love the weapons and Have Fun with them, Who Cares How Old you are or what your Preferences are? We are All alike, Only some are Older or Younger.. Stay Safe..

r3dn3ck
03-04-2012, 11:35 AM
Hey I'm in my mid 20s and like O/Us more than semis lol. It's not always the 65 year old grumpy geezer. I'm an grumpy old geezer and I'm 24. Damn kids these days, with their generalizations and their pants hanging off their a** :p

well I'm a helluva lot older but I'm not "old" and that pretty well sums it up. I didn't like kids when I was one. I like them less now.

Simply enough though, ergonomics is a science just like kinematics and anyone that denies the benefits uncovered by rigorous scientific development is not only acting old but they're acting kinda ignorant too.

1) Anything that is in the world when you're born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2) Anything that's invented between when you're 15 and 35 is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3) Anything invented after you're 35 is against the natural order of things

Realizing that those rules are there (credit to Douglas Adams) we should realize as we get older that we also get progressively more and more ignorant and it's up to us to adopt any new technique or technology that will enhance our chances of success or at least survival.

rojocorsa
03-04-2012, 11:36 AM
I’d like to mention a difference I see as well.

Those that like “guns” verses those that like “shooting”.

Those with 20 guns with maybe 100 rounds through each and another one in jail, and those with 5 guns with 10,000 rounds through each, and another 1,000 rounds prepped for reloading.

I like learning more about shooting than I do guns.

I could likely afford a gun every 3 months, but nope, I can't, I spend it on ammo.



Great thing to point out, there are gun owners and there a shooters!


I like all kinds of guns, and despite being on the younger side of the forum--I find the old school C&R guns to be more enjoyable. At the square range, it is more enjoyable to shoot an old M-1 than an AR.

However, guns like the AR are invaluable useful and practical tools. I personally want to buy an AK like the one in my sig pic this year, even.

All I'm saying is that as a pleasure thing, the old school stuff tends to be more interesting and fun. And I find it amusing how some of those guns can be so old and still work OK.

rojocorsa
03-04-2012, 11:38 AM
Oh, I used to read Field and Stream since around the time I was in 7th grade because my mom would not let me subscribe to any normal gun rag at the time, lol.

I actually learned a few things about hunting guns and cartridges, so it's not all bad. I consider myself fairly well-informed when it comes to the subject of guns as a whole because of this. Also, I like fishing, so yeah.

g_conway
03-04-2012, 12:27 PM
I don't think the issue is generational, I think it is personal.

Some people look at guns as an investment, others as tools, others as showpieces.

stormvet
03-04-2012, 3:16 PM
Allot also depends on were your initial gun experience comes from, those who did not serve in the military but grow up hunting are more likely to be interested in bolt action, lever and shotguns. If you spend a good amount of time in the military(as a trigger puller, not a computer repair man) it only makes since you would lean to military type weapons. But todays gen. it dont matter because they got PS3 and XBOX. They are all experts in all types of firearms without ever leaving their house.

stormvet
03-04-2012, 3:32 PM
my 89 year old grand father went from "what the heck do you need an AK for" to "what! They banned an M1 carbine with a folding stock?" after exlaining the CA AWB.

Your grandfather was only 24 when the AK was invented, its only a few years newer then his beloved M1 carbine.

Allot of the new cool tactical stuff is actually pretty old. AK,AR, UZI etc, etc have been around a very long time, people where being tacticool way before it was called tacticool.

Striker
03-04-2012, 3:58 PM
If by generational you're implying more experienced than yes. As you get older and more experience with different firearms you learn what works for you and what doesn't. You don't really care about the newest thing unless it's something that's revolutionary, which by the way, most things aren't. You learn that, generally, the latest wonder pistol doesn't do anything any better than your Glock 17, 1911 or Sig P226 does. If it works for you, it does. Trying is fun, buying and carrying is a totally different subject. I know a gentleman who likes revolvers and lever action rifles and can pretty much hit anything he aims at with them. I would try and persuade him on the virtues of my AR and Glock, but why when he hits everything he aims at. And as I've heard some "A" level shooters say, I'd take a guy that can hit what he aims at all day long over the as*clown with the newest tacticool weapon.

Finally, I once read where an active duty SEAL was asked why they don't switch to brand X pistol over the P226. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, that the P226 is accurate, reliable, durable and does everything the teams ask of it, so why would they want to change. He went on to say that the perception that SEALs change weapons a lot is untrue and that the P226 and HK MP 5 were two of the most durable weapons they have ever used and the guys loved them. Now, I'm sure you can find SEALs that prefer other weapons and, of course, mission dictates weapon selection, but the point is until something revolutionary comes along you stick with what works. It's a defense tool, not party favor. Shiny and new is not always better.

philobeddoe
03-04-2012, 4:10 PM
older folks get set in their ways, it's got nothing to do with generations

I remember slapping headers and duals on my CJ back in the day and my pop getting all irate ... "what the heck'd you do that for?!"

"you kids and your stupid headers"

he went out and got a 550hp commuter car; to each their own

older folks, they don't always make sense, and they're a little reactionary/judgmental sometimes, and I think complaining is the American Way, for every generation, it's what we do best