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Cranium
02-28-2012, 5:42 PM
I'll preface by say I know this is a stretch, but thought I'd ask anyway, as I'm curious about the letter of the law.
I have a 7yo son. Thankfully, he has no interest in getting his ear pierced (from another thread I just read..). Also thankfully, he's interested in shooting.
So I got him a Henry youth lever. LOP was still a bit long, so I cut about another 1.5" off. Now the LOP is pretty good for him, but the issue is barrel length. Even the youth, with the 16" barrel, is too front heavy.
Even if I could pull off the barrel work, it would be too short to be legal.
So I was thinking "Dang, wish the Mare's leg had a bit longer stock-nob-handle-grip-thingy," and the thought came up; Does a recoil pad count as part of a buttstock on a rifle or shotgun? Even a slip-on pad?
If one were to put a "recoil pad" on a Henry Mare's Leg, would one be entirely outside the law? I'm guessing it's an SBR at that point? Or is it just a pistol with a stock? AOW? Clearly this a realm of stuff I've not looked too deeply into...
Just wondering if anyone had any thoughts.

mdimeo
02-28-2012, 6:35 PM
I think a mare's leg with the "stock" (really the grip; it's a pistol) extended would be an sbr. I wouldn't risk it.

If you're worried about weight balance, just add weight to the stock. Chisel a hole in the back, and hammer in a lead fishing weight or three. Or holes through perpendicular to the stock and put weights in the holes.

Cranium
02-28-2012, 7:41 PM
I thought about weight in the stock, but overall weight might get too much. It'll just be the "daddy bipod" for a while. He prefers his pistol anyway...

But I'm still curious... Can a slip-on recoil pad be used to make a rifle with a short stock legal length? I guess the question I have is, what is considered the buttstock?

But yeah... I'm not going to risk it. It's really more of a hypothetical Q.

aermotor
02-28-2012, 7:47 PM
OAL is OAL if you're too short in barrel length or OAL your in SBR/AW land. Maybe if you screw the pad onto the stock so it's more 'permanently' affixed you'd be okay...

SVT-40
02-28-2012, 7:50 PM
A permanently installed butt pad IS considered part of the rifle and can be used to add to a overall length of a rifle or shotgun. A slip on pad or similar non-permanent type pad cannot.

Here is the text from the California Penal Code related to a "short barreled rifle".


Old section 12020 PC. New section 33215PC
(2) As used in this section, a "short-barreled rifle" means any of the following(A) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.(B) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches. (C) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.

So unless the total length is less than 26 inches your fine. That includes a permanently attached butt pad.

Looking at the Henry youth lever rifle it has a 16.125 inch barrel and a receiver and tang length of approx another 8 inches. So that leaves you with a overall length without a stock at approx 24 inches. So it seems you could cut the stock at 2 inches and install a 1/2 inch rubber butt pad and your good.


Now as far as being functional and having a length of pull which is appropriate for your son cutting the gun like that would have to be measured. I would be really surprised if the rifle needs to be cut as severely like that to achieve your goals.

Besides cutting the stock so severely will lower his cheek weld and not allow him to see throug the rear sight and properly align it with the front sight.

gun toting monkeyboy
02-29-2012, 10:53 AM
Just get him a Crickett and be done with it. It is already child size. Ready to go out of the box. I picked up one for each of my daughters on their 6th birthdays. One of whom is only in the 4th percentile for height. They should fit him with no modification at all.

-Mb

mdimeo
02-29-2012, 10:54 AM
But I'm still curious... Can a slip-on recoil pad be used to make a rifle with a short stock legal length?

Since a screwed-on muzzle device doesn't help make barrel length (must be blind pinned and welded), a friction-fitted recoil pad isn't going to help on OAL.

-m@

Cranium
02-29-2012, 1:30 PM
Since a screwed-on muzzle device doesn't help make barrel length (must be blind pinned and welded), a friction-fitted recoil pad isn't going to help on OAL.

-m@

So my question really boils down to... does the same friction-fit pad have the capability to make a pistol into an SBR/AOW?

Just get him a Crickett and be done with it. It is already child size. Ready to go out of the box.

Yeah, I get that. The question was less of a "what rifle should I buy," or "should I do this," and more of a "how does the law work in this case?"

BigDogatPlay
02-29-2012, 2:13 PM
As above, you could cut the stock quite a bit and still be above minimum OAL. But it eventually reaches a point of diminishing return. Turning the gun into a mare's leg (a pistol for all intents and purposes) would be manufacturing an SBR, I think, since the gun DROSed as a rifle.

Two points.....

* Presumably he is going to grow. If you cut the stock way short to fit him now, it might not in a year and you'll be restocking the gun.

* Might be worthwhile to have him learn some exercises to increase his arm and upper body strength. That would help he deal with the weight of the gun in a much longer term way than continuing to shorten it.

My $0.02, YMMV.

CHS
02-29-2012, 6:59 PM
So my question really boils down to... does the same friction-fit pad have the capability to make a pistol into an SBR/AOW?


Absolutely.

If you do anything to a Mare's Leg pistol to make it so that it is now designed to be fired from the shoulder, you have manufactured an SBR, a violation of both Federal and State law.